Siblings present at birth - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 24 Old 11-23-2012, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
SplashingPuddle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 245
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I am trying to decide whether to have my 3 year old present at our baby's birth. My previous home birth was anything but relaxing and I spent a lot of time screaming and wishing for it to finally end. So not exactly what I would hope to have another child present for.  That said, I am wondering if it will be different this time, and whether to have my daughter around the house for birth.

 

Are you planning to have siblings present? And if you've had siblings present, what was good and bad about it? 

SplashingPuddle is offline  
#2 of 24 Old 11-23-2012, 09:56 AM
 
rnra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 583
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I have not personally given birth with siblings present.  However, I have participated in births with siblings present.  

 

If you do decide to have the siblings present, please please please make back-up plans for someone to watch the kids elsewhere if the siblings don't want to participate or you decide that you don't want them there.  Preferably this would be someone that the kids are familiar with such as a grandparent or close family friend. I've heard of some families selecting a "birthing buddy" for the older child.  That person is there to do whatever the child wants.  They are not there to assist mom with the birth or even to witness it if the child doesn't want to.  They are there to play with the sibling, take them to the park, make them lunch, etc.  In one birth I am familiar with, the father ended up missing the birth because his older child was distraught and wanted to leave but there was no one available to watch him.

 

Also, please make it clear to your child that she is not required to be there and that she is welcome to come and go from the birthing room as she chooses.  I think it would be great to educate her as much as possible regarding what is expected to happen and invite her to be with you, but also make it clear that she can always leave if she wants to.  I've also participated in births where the mom was so set on the siblings being present that the kids were essentially forced to watch the birth against their will.  Some kids aren't interested, some don't want to see that, some get scared, etc. and these kids should be allowed an easy out if they want to.  Other kids absolutely love the process and want to be there the whole time and see every little thing.

 

Good luck!

rnra is offline  
#3 of 24 Old 11-23-2012, 10:47 AM
 
jldumm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: nm
Posts: 675
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnra View Post

I have not personally given birth with siblings present.  However, I have participated in births with siblings present.  

 

If you do decide to have the siblings present, please please please make back-up plans for someone to watch the kids elsewhere if the siblings don't want to participate or you decide that you don't want them there.  Preferably this would be someone that the kids are familiar with such as a grandparent or close family friend. I've heard of some families selecting a "birthing buddy" for the older child.  That person is there to do whatever the child wants.  They are not there to assist mom with the birth or even to witness it if the child doesn't want to.  They are there to play with the sibling, take them to the park, make them lunch, etc.  In one birth I am familiar with, the father ended up missing the birth because his older child was distraught and wanted to leave but there was no one available to watch him.

 

Also, please make it clear to your child that she is not required to be there and that she is welcome to come and go from the birthing room as she chooses.  I think it would be great to educate her as much as possible regarding what is expected to happen and invite her to be with you, but also make it clear that she can always leave if she wants to.  I've also participated in births where the mom was so set on the siblings being present that the kids were essentially forced to watch the birth against their will.  Some kids aren't interested, some don't want to see that, some get scared, etc. and these kids should be allowed an easy out if they want to.  Other kids absolutely love the process and want to be there the whole time and see every little thing.

 

Good luck!


Very well put.

i have never had a sibling present...... The first time, my body was waiting until she left and i literally gave birth while she was in the driveway with the Friend who was taking her away.

and the second time they both slept through.

I think i am a lone birther with just my hubby there and midwife in the back ground..

good luck with what you decide.


In love with their dad . mom to (dd 5/20/07)notes.gif, and (ds 3/27/09)moon.gif ,and (dd 5/9/11) love.gif, and (ds 5/14/13) nak.gif

jldumm is offline  
#4 of 24 Old 11-23-2012, 01:42 PM
 
Le24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I have 3 children, and each time all of the siblings were at the birth.  As we always do everything else together as a family, I really couldn't imagine them not being present at such an amazing, family changing event.

 

My daughter was 4 years old and present at #2 birth.  I had a homebirth, and the midwife woke my daughter up in the middle of the night only moments before #2 was born.  One of my strongest memories of the birth was pushing and seeing my daughters huge smile while seeing her baby sister born.

 

When I had #3 my two daughters were 6 and 10yo.  I had another homebirth, and they were both present for that birth as well.  I honestly couldn't imagine them not having been there, and feel that there was very strong bonding in seeing their siblings being born.

 

We did prepare them in advance by being present at the pre-natals with midwife, reading books and having them watch natural birth videos so they knew what to expect.

 

I am now pregnant with #4, and my son will be 3yo when it is born.  I would like for him to be there--but I'm not sure yet if I should have somebody there with him in case he isn't interested, or is clingy to me and I want some space.  I don't have anyone I would be comfortable having at the birth.  My daughter was 4--and there is a huge differance in understanding between a 4yo and a 3yo.  However, I have watched birth videos with him, and he is in absolute awe and such a HUGE smile when the baby is born--so I really would like him to be there.  We will see.

 

I just wanted to share my experience's with having children at my births.

Le24 is offline  
#5 of 24 Old 11-23-2012, 02:54 PM
 
Dove84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

We're debating this with DD, she will be 15 m old when her sibling is born (homebirth) We have no family here, no one to stay at our house and watch her, so our only options are to have her at the birth (and DH supervising her) or to have her stay at a friends house.  She has only been separated from us once, for one hour.  I don't know what would be more traumatic for her, watching my labour and birth or going to a near strangers house for perhaps a day.  Hopefully this baby will be born at night so she'll just sleep through it (maybe, lol).


Married to the love of my life and SAH Mama to my little sweet pea (Sept 2011) and darling baby boy (Dec 2012) novaxnocirc.gifh20homebirth.gifhomeschool.gif bfinfant.gifslinggirl.gifcd.gif

Dove84 is offline  
#6 of 24 Old 11-23-2012, 04:28 PM
 
loveandgarbage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,620
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I'm on the fence about this too. My mom will be their caregiver during the birth. But we're not sure if she'll stay with them here or take them to back to her place. We're just going to play it by ear. If they are sleeping we don't plan to wake them up.


Jean, feminist mama raising three boys: W (7), E (5) and L (2.15.13)

loveandgarbage is offline  
#7 of 24 Old 11-23-2012, 05:37 PM
 
tiqa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I really don't want my kids at the birth.  Really and really don't.  I need to focus on the birth - and I want to be selfish and demand DH's complete attention - and I can't divide my attention on the young kiddos.  They're chaotic at the best of times.  (My son is on the spectrum, my daughter is, well, she's 4!)  But I can't find anyone to watch them.  We don't have family, we don't have friends.  I've looked and searched and asked and begged everyone I could for about six months.  I tried hiring babysitters, asking neighbors, in the homeschool group...   No one.  The only person I could ask would be a doula I could hire for like $400, and we can't pay that for a couple of hours.  (My labors are really short.)  We're kind of in the country and don't have a strict due date (just "sometime around the holidays") and no one can/will sign up to watch them.

 

So.

 

Ho-hum... =/

tiqa is offline  
#8 of 24 Old 11-23-2012, 08:00 PM
 
rnra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 583
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Just a thought...have you asked your midwife for suggestions regarding someone to watch the kids? I wonder if the midwives may know of someone in the area who could help.  

rnra is offline  
#9 of 24 Old 11-24-2012, 05:46 AM
 
tiqa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

If you were saying that to me - our mw doesn't live here.  There is a biggish city about 45 mins away where there would be tons of people, but a) we get bad winter roads and b) there is no specific date range and c) my labors tend to go so fast I don't know/think they would be able to make it.  We're not even sure the mw will be able to make it...  Or, on the other hand, that we'd be able to make it to the hospital in time (if we were planning on a hospital birth).

 

(You'd think that means that there wouldn't be much concen about having the kids occuppied, but there's always the "what if" factor - what if it takes longer, what if I had to transfer, etc.)

tiqa is offline  
#10 of 24 Old 11-24-2012, 03:31 PM
 
Adaline'sMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,792
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

DD was present for DS's labor, just because it was so fast and our childcare provider wasnt there yet. I had a really hard time during labor because I wanted DH's help, but he was busy keeping DD entertained (she wanted to be held). Also, she kept wanting to hug and touch me, which wasn't really okay with me because I felt like my skin was crawling the whole time. We booted her out of the room as soon as MIL arrived to take her, and in the end I wish we hadnt because DS was born 6 minutes after she left the room. At that point, I wish she'd just stayed to see it. 


Holly and David partners.gif

Adaline love.gif (3/20/10), and Charlie brokenheart.gif (1/26/12- 4/10/12) and our identical  rainbow1284.gif  twins Callie and Wendy (01/04/13)

SIDS happens. 

Adaline'sMama is offline  
#11 of 24 Old 11-24-2012, 04:18 PM
 
philomom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 9,430
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
My daughter was only 2 and a half when her brother was born. I did not think at that tender age that she needed to see her mom uncomfortable. She had a great sleepover with a trusted friend and we were reunited 24 hours later.
philomom is offline  
#12 of 24 Old 11-27-2012, 01:12 PM
 
Detcb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Upstate, NY
Posts: 44
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

We are planning on having 2.5 YO DD at the birth in January. I am with a MW in a hospital setting. We do not have family near by, but my mom is talking about coming up. Our bare bones plan is have DH be DD's labor support person and we have a doula for me. So he can come and go with her as needed. I'm not sure how this would play out differently if my mom is here, I don't want her at the birth, so DD might stay home with her in that case. And we haven't decided what we will do if I need to go in the middle of the night.

 

We have been talking about what labor and delivery will look and sound like to prepare her.
 


mommy to Claire 4.21.10 and surprise! expecting someone new January 2013

Detcb is offline  
#13 of 24 Old 11-27-2012, 03:52 PM
 
CountryMommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think it would be wonderful for my children to attend the birth if they were older and they wanted to be part of the experience but I feel that they are just too young right now (will be 3 and 5 at baby's birth) I think seeing me in pain would probably be traumatic for them and I really want to be able to focus on the labour without distractions.
CountryMommy is offline  
#14 of 24 Old 11-27-2012, 07:17 PM
 
Peony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 25,342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)

My children drive me insane when I am in labor. The little voices is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me! That being said, they have been around or at least in the same house as me while I've given birth. 

 

While in labor with DD2, my labor stalled out some until I was able to find a hiding spot away from DD1. Granted, I do like laboring entirely alone, no DH, no one, just me. She came in to watch once I was pushing and that was fine. She remembered DD2s birth for years, she may still. I haven't asked in quite some time. When DS1 was born, the two girls were 2 and 6 and bouncing around downstairs for the entire labor. It drove me insane every time one would pop their head in the bedroom to check on me. THe plan was to call them in at the very end again but I went from thinking it was going to be a while to having him in about 3 minutes, there wasn't even time to call downstairs to get them. They came right up afterwards. They were 8,4, and 2 when DS2 was born and that was my only middle of the night labor/birth. DD2 was actually at a sleepover, we elected not to bring her home, we woke up DD1 to wake and left DS1 sleeping. After DS2 was born, DH eventually found DS1 wandering around the house trying to figure out what was going on! I was very glad that we didn't purposely wake him though. 

 

My plans have always worked because I had people to call if I needed to and I do not rely on DH for any emotional support, if anything I like that he focuses on the kids because that means he is not focusing on me. 


There is no way to happiness, happiness is the way.
Peony is online now  
#15 of 24 Old 11-27-2012, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
SplashingPuddle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 245
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Today I spoke with my midwife about having children present at birth, and she said that it is often easier for younger kids than older ones (over 10 years). She also said a child will also behave in labour a bit like they would when in her office or when the parent is on the phone and distracted.  And there is a lot of variability how children respond in those situations.  She said it is easier at home than at the hospital because the child feels secure in the environment and can come and go as needed.  That said, she was really encouraging of having our toddler present.  Has anyone else spoken to their midwives about having their children present? Was your care provider encouraging of the idea or not?  Did they have any advice of how to best do it?

SplashingPuddle is offline  
#16 of 24 Old 11-27-2012, 09:52 PM
 
greenemami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 1,751
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)

My then almost 3-year-old daughter was present at my son's birth and I LOVED it!  She actually cut his cord (with help, obviously) and it was such a special moment for all of us :)

 

That said, dp was there as MY support person, not hers-my parents and sisters helped watch her so that I could concentrate during labor and then she sat with them during the birth so that dp could help me.  She did come cuddle in bed with me for a little while when I was in labor though, which ended up with some funny pictures :)

 

I would go for it, just make sure you have an alternate plan in case she or you doesn't handle it well! 


Single mama namaste.gif to dd dust.gifand ds fencing.gif, loving my dsd always reading.gif .
greenemami is offline  
#17 of 24 Old 11-28-2012, 02:20 PM
 
Dove84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I just asked my MW about having DD there and she said it was fine with them, if we are comfortable with it the MW's are ok.  Just to watch DD and see how she is handling it.  We didn't go into details as we've pretty much decided to have some friends take DD if my labour is in the daytime, we already had a family offer to watch her.  My labour with DD was short (less than 4 hours) so if it's short again it certainly won't be a big deal to have her away a few hours.  I'd much prefer DD NOT to be there, but at least if we can't get someone to take her I know she should be ok at home (she is a pretty sensitive toddler, when my MW was checking me at our home visit today she refused to play or do anything else, just sat there with wide eyes analyzing every move my MW made!  lol) 


Married to the love of my life and SAH Mama to my little sweet pea (Sept 2011) and darling baby boy (Dec 2012) novaxnocirc.gifh20homebirth.gifhomeschool.gif bfinfant.gifslinggirl.gifcd.gif

Dove84 is offline  
#18 of 24 Old 11-29-2012, 01:44 PM
 
IronMam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 567
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

DD (who will be 4), will be allowed to be present provided that:

 

A: She wants to be and

B: I want her there once I'm actually in labor.

 

My favorite BIL lives in our rental with us (he took the basement half of the house), and will, if all goes according to plan, be DD's "go-to grown up." He can hang out with her and watch movies/play games down in his space, or take her to the park, or whatever.

 

At least, that's my plan for now.

 

I think the hardest part for DD will be dealing with her disappointment when she can't play in the birth tub with me (I anticipate wanting the tub to myself, and possibly not even having DP join me).


reading.gif <--Me, IronMammaries  mischievous.gif <--Med-student DPenergy.gif<--DD (12/08) &  baby.gif <--DS 4/13

 

1**pos.gif5***heartbeat.gif10****15**B*20***25***30***35**** stork-boy.gif

.....BFP.........HB Heard.........BOY!......................................... 

IronMam is offline  
#19 of 24 Old 11-29-2012, 06:32 PM
 
BeanMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In search of sleep!
Posts: 161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

My DS was 2yrs4mos when his first sister was born and the labor was so fast that my mom couldn't get to us in time to take him away so yes he was right there when she came out.  In the end I thought it was very sweet for him that he was there, especially because he had participated in all midwife appointments so he was very aware of some aspects of pregnancy and was already calling himself a midwife.  But we hadn't discussed very many details about the birthing process with him in advance, not expecting him to be there for it.  It was a bit freaky for him, exacerbated by the speed and intensity of everything, and DH held him a few feet away so they had a view from above my waist, not below. 

 

Because of this, DH wasn't at all hands-on for DD's birth.  It also meant that DH whisked DS out of the room right after she was born and they went for a walk while I got cleaned up.  So DH missed her first few moments and the chance to cut her umbilical cord -- which I ended up doing myself! 

 

Be prepared for the possibility that your DD may want to talk about her experience with everyone and anyone in the subsequent months. In our case, the tidbit that DS chose to share widely was that there was a lot of noise and blood and that his baby sister was born out of my ASS!!  Which of course everyone found funny and cute (the ass part, not the noise/blood part), although it was a bit awkward at times depending on who he was telling.

 

We did not have our kids in the room when DD#2 was born a few years later. 

 

Good luck!


Mama to DS (7), DD (5), DD (2), #4 due 03/2013

 

BeanMama is offline  
#20 of 24 Old 12-02-2012, 04:58 AM
 
atopz94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I was ten years old when my mother gave birth for the second time. My brother's father and his other children chose not to be present but I found it to be a great experience to watch my mother bring my little brother into the world. I even held her hand for part of it, cheering her on. I don't know if this will be the same emotional experience for a child so young, but if I hadn't been there to see my brother's birth I would've regretted it. 

atopz94 is offline  
#21 of 24 Old 12-11-2012, 10:51 AM
 
dayiscoming2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,793
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I had my boys at their sister's birth. We did a UC and I taught them during the pregnancy about how birth happens and how there is pain and mommy may feel bad, but that I would feel better when the baby was out and it would be OK. I showed them some birth videos too, so they knew what to expect and they were fine. They played in the living room. Daddy came to the bedroom when I started pushing and and the boys walked over and looked when I pushed her out. They were excited to see a baby and seemed to think it was interesting. They then went back and played. I even screamed during pushing, but I explained to them that it was OK and mommy would be OK. I told them this is what has to happen so mommy can get baby out. My kids will be there this time too unless I have to transfer to the hospital for an emergency or something. I'm not worried about it at all. We don't have family or friends to watch our kids here yet. So, we have to rely on ourselves for now. 


Happily married Christian SAHM of 2 boys, DD1 uc.jpg, and DD2 July 2013 homebirth.jpg 

 homeschool.gif   novaxnocirc.gif cd.gif   winner.jpg                                       

 

dayiscoming2006 is offline  
#22 of 24 Old 12-11-2012, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
SplashingPuddle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 245
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

dayiscoming: how old were/are your kids at the time of the birth? Did it affect your children differently?  

SplashingPuddle is offline  
#23 of 24 Old 12-11-2012, 12:28 PM
 
dayiscoming2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,793
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SplashingPuddle View Post

dayiscoming: how old were/are your kids at the time of the birth? Did it affect your children differently?  

 

2 and a half and 4 and a half. They both seemed cool with it. My oldest still tells me the story of it sometimes. I don't know if my youngest boy will really remember it. 

 

The kids will be 2, 4 and a half and 6 and a half this time.


Happily married Christian SAHM of 2 boys, DD1 uc.jpg, and DD2 July 2013 homebirth.jpg 

 homeschool.gif   novaxnocirc.gif cd.gif   winner.jpg                                       

 

dayiscoming2006 is offline  
#24 of 24 Old 12-12-2012, 12:57 PM
 
1babysmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

My children have been present for both ofm y UC's.  The first UC DD1 was 27 months.  Despite laboring in the middle of the night, she was wide awake and in and out of the bathroom where I was laboring, and she wasn't really interested in what was going on.

 

The 2nd time, DD1 was 4 and DD2 was 22 months (again, labor in the middle of the night but the woke up with no interest in going back to bed).  They were both present when he was born and very interested.  DD1 was just excited to have a baby, but DD2 was SO cute because she just wanted SOOOOO badly to get in the tub with me after he came out.  I let her (much to DH's manly disgust LOL) and it was a precious time together.  I don't know if she remembers much, though, and DD1 remembers bits and pieces, enough to recall, but not enough that she seems

 

A lot of people freak out that my children witnessed childbirth "up close" so young.  But seriously, it's so normal and natural and a blessing that God gives us...what is wrong with them being a part of that?  I am generally a VERY modest person, so I might feel slightly different if they had a really obvious visual, but I was upright in the bathtub so they didn't see "specifics" of the birth (they still think he came out of my tummy LOL). 

 

Also, I am a very quiet, keep to myself birther.  So there isn't much trauma to them when they witness mommy in labor.  But I do have several family members here each time so that they CAN take them if need be.  Just never had any reason to separate them from me, really.


Me (27) DH (30)...9 Years

DD (7) ~ DD (4) ~ DS (3)

Praying our April 2013 baby sticks!! joy.gif


Babies in Heaven...angel.gif 9/04 angel.gif 2/05 angel.gif 3/11 angel.gif 4/11 angel.gif 6/11 angel.gif 11/11 angel.gif 2/12 (along with my tube greensad.gif )

 

1babysmom is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off