How to get midwife to not run any tests or ultrasounds - Mothering Forums

 10Likes
  • 2 Post By applejuice
  • 2 Post By katelove
  • 1 Post By cosmosis
  • 2 Post By kathymuggle
  • 1 Post By chispita
  • 1 Post By quantumleap
  • 1 Post By srieger
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 12 Old 02-17-2017, 03:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
cosmosis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: North Pole
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
How to get midwife to not run any tests or ultrasounds

Hi there

So it will be a few weeks before I start seeking out a midwife. My first birth was hospital and unwanted (as well as unnecessary) c-section. I'm sure you've heard that scenario many times.

Anyhow, do any of you ladies have experience with a midwife complying with your wish to not do ultrasounds, dopplers or other testing?

Ideally I just want somebody at my birth in case complications arise, but I understand I have to build a relationship first. I'm in Canada and we can get free midwifery here, however, I have no idea how regulated or flexible they are.

I have to decide what route to take in the next couple of weeks as we do have to get on a waiting list...

What would happen if the midwife decided to transfer me to an OB for whatever reason? Can I decline the transfer?

Thank you for your time!
cosmosis is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 12 Old 02-17-2017, 05:18 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 463
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
why would you not want ultrasounds?

I knew one mom who decided to do that and found out her baby was not viable AFTER it was born (full term), the baby only lived a few days at most. If you know you are going to have a lot of complications then a midwife is not a good choice.
mumto1 is offline  
#3 of 12 Old 02-17-2017, 05:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
cosmosis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: North Pole
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
I don't foresee any complications, but I assume most people who do run into them don't foresee them either.
cosmosis is offline  
 
#4 of 12 Old 02-17-2017, 08:56 AM
 
applejuice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: hunting the wild aebelskiever
Posts: 21,759
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 274 Post(s)
I had all homebirths with a midwife with no ultrasounds or other invasive tests.

However having a previous c/sec complicates all future deliveries for you, so you will most probably have much trouble finding any healthcare professional to comply with your wishes.

Life threatening complications as adhesions, bowel problems, uterine rupture, placenta accreta/percreta/increta, placenta previa, hemorrhage, miscarriage, stillborn, and many other problems associated with previous c/secs should be screened for before delivery.

Get your records so that you can learn what kind of repair was done to your uterus as well as any problems during surgery. Getting your records is always an eye opening revelation.

Doctors should be more careful about ordering c/sec delivery in women as it affects all future deliveries and all abdominal conditions. In the 1950s, there was a saying that a doctor who does a caesarean section delivery has a patient for life; in the same era, any doctor that did lots of caesarean section deliveries was a pariah among his colleagues. Today, it is hard to even sue a doctor for doing an unnecessary caesarean delivery since the procedure is seen as lifesaving, no matter how trivial the reason for the procedure.
grisandole and cosmosis like this.

"Vaccines are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get - acute hemorrhagic edema of infancy, allergies, diabetes, eczema, petit/gran mal seizures, ADEM, AFP, ASIA, CFS, GBS, JPA, JRA, LGS, LKS, POTS, RA, SJS, SLE, SPD, TPI, Henoch-Schonlein purpua, fibromyalgia, Retts Syndrome, encephalitis, Hughes Syndrome, neurological damage, coma, or death."

~paraphrased from "Forrest Gump"~












Last edited by applejuice; 02-17-2017 at 09:10 AM.
applejuice is offline  
#5 of 12 Old 02-17-2017, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
cosmosis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: North Pole
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
My c-section was in 2007, does that help me in any way?
cosmosis is offline  
#6 of 12 Old 02-17-2017, 03:16 PM
 
katelove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,909
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmosis View Post
My c-section was in 2007, does that help me in any way?


It is greater than two years between births so you should have achieved maximum scar strength. I assume you had a lower segment caesarean so, all else being equal, there is no reason you shouldn't attempt a VBAC.

In theory, your midwife should be able to just document that you have declined USS/Doppler examination. In practice it may place her in a difficult position with her employers. She will certainly be required to discuss with you the potential risks of not having whatever it is you're declining done.

When you say no Doppler are you happy to have foetal hearts done with a pinnards? That should be doable, although it can be more difficult and more intrusive during labour.

Are you happy to have bloods, vital signs etc done during pregnancy? If it is just USS/Doppler you don't want then that shouldn't be too much of an issue. I think the main sticking point is having a midwife attend your labour/birth and not be allowed to do any observations. Often the first indication of scar dehiscence is changes to the foetal heart so I think they will want to at least be doing those.

It just occurs to me as I'm writing this that I've assumed we are talking about govt employed midwives. If they are in private practice then I would think you have more change of a totally hands off situation. It will be a matter of interviewing a few and laying out your wishes to see whether you can reach an agreement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
applejuice and cosmosis like this.

Mother of two spectacular girls, born mid-2010 and late 2012  mdcblog5.gif

katelove is offline  
#7 of 12 Old 02-17-2017, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
cosmosis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: North Pole
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
I had all homebirths with a midwife with no ultrasounds or other invasive tests.

However having a previous c/sec complicates all future deliveries for you, so you will most probably have much trouble finding any healthcare professional to comply with your wishes.

Life threatening complications as adhesions, bowel problems, uterine rupture, placenta accreta/percreta/increta, placenta previa, hemorrhage, miscarriage, stillborn, and many other problems associated with previous c/secs should be screened for before delivery.

Get your records so that you can learn what kind of repair was done to your uterus as well as any problems during surgery. Getting your records is always an eye opening revelation.

Doctors should be more careful about ordering c/sec delivery in women as it affects all future deliveries and all abdominal conditions. In the 1950s, there was a saying that a doctor who does a caesarean section delivery has a patient for life; in the same era, any doctor that did lots of caesarean section deliveries was a pariah among his colleagues. Today, it is hard to even sue a doctor for doing an unnecessary caesarean delivery since the procedure is seen as lifesaving, no matter how trivial the reason for the procedure.

I totally agree. The reason they did mine was because my water broke at "40 weeks" , baby wasn't anywhere near ready and there was no progress. The Dr. had a trip to make *sigh*

I was actually thinking of trying to obtain my records although I had my c-section in the US and I'm now in Canada. I'll dig around and see how I can manage to get them from here.
applejuice likes this.
cosmosis is offline  
#8 of 12 Old 02-17-2017, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
cosmosis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: North Pole
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by katelove View Post
It is greater than two years between births so you should have achieved maximum scar strength. I assume you had a lower segment caesarean so, all else being equal, there is no reason you shouldn't attempt a VBAC.

In theory, your midwife should be able to just document that you have declined USS/Doppler examination. In practice it may place her in a difficult position with her employers. She will certainly be required to discuss with you the potential risks of not having whatever it is you're declining done.

When you say no Doppler are you happy to have foetal hearts done with a pinnards? That should be doable, although it can be more difficult and more intrusive during labour.

Are you happy to have bloods, vital signs etc done during pregnancy? If it is just USS/Doppler you don't want then that shouldn't be too much of an issue. I think the main sticking point is having a midwife attend your labour/birth and not be allowed to do any observations. Often the first indication of scar dehiscence is changes to the foetal heart so I think they will want to at least be doing those.

It just occurs to me as I'm writing this that I've assumed we are talking about govt employed midwives. If they are in private practice then I would think you have more change of a totally hands off situation. It will be a matter of interviewing a few and laying out your wishes to see whether you can reach an agreement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thank you for this My c/s was indeed lower segment.

Yes, I'm willing to do fetal hearts with a fetoscope and the bloodwork will depend on what the test is about. Vitals are fine also.

I don't know for sure how midwifery works here. All I know so far is that all midwifery is covered by the Ontario Ministry of Health, but they all appear to be private practice with rules and regs to follow. I believe the flexibility will be up to each individual midwife.

Any Canadians with some input?

Last edited by cosmosis; 02-17-2017 at 04:54 PM.
cosmosis is offline  
#9 of 12 Old 02-17-2017, 05:10 PM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,048
Mentioned: 236 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2285 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmosis View Post
Hi there

So it will be a few weeks before I start seeking out a midwife. My first birth was hospital and unwanted (as well as unnecessary) c-section. I'm sure you've heard that scenario many times.

Anyhow, do any of you ladies have experience with a midwife complying with your wish to not do ultrasounds, dopplers or other testing?

Ideally I just want somebody at my birth in case complications arise, but I understand I have to build a relationship first. I'm in Canada and we can get free midwifery here, however, I have no idea how regulated or flexible they are.

I have to decide what route to take in the next couple of weeks as we do have to get on a waiting list...

What would happen if the midwife decided to transfer me to an OB for whatever reason? Can I decline the transfer?

Thank you for your time!
I had my third at home with a midwife 14 yrs ago in Ontario. I did not have an ultrasound and avoided most testing (bloodwork was done early on). She did use a doppler though, sporadically, briefly and with consent. I would have consented to most tests, though, if they had grounds.

Legally, midwives in Ontario and maybe elsewhere are not supposed to skip the eye-goop even at home, but some will. In Ontario you can decline Vit. k at home and a newborn screening panel (although I personally would not skip the latter).

Midwifery in Canada that is covered is fairly regulated. There are people midwives can see, times they need to consult, and times they need to hand over care and it is all regulated. I am fairly certain they can be the primary health care attendant for someone who had one low C-section. I did find my midwife quite flexible, a huge fan of informed choice.

Midwives in Canada are often in short supply - call one as soon as you know you are pregnant!

kathy
applejuice and cosmosis like this.

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.
 
Book and herb loving mama to 2 teens and one young adult.

Last edited by kathymuggle; 02-17-2017 at 05:13 PM.
kathymuggle is offline  
#10 of 12 Old 03-31-2017, 10:35 PM
 
chispita's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 627
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
For a VBAC there's a good chancell most midwifes will ask for one ultrasound at the very least to check for placenta location with regards to the scar (which might turn into two or more later on if it falls on or close)
applejuice likes this.
chispita is offline  
#11 of 12 Old 04-01-2017, 06:04 AM
 
quantumleap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Atlantic Canada
Posts: 1,966
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Congratulations on the pregnancy! I agree with the above who said to call the clinic asap. In many places, if you don't call the second you pee on the stick, you can't get in. Wanting a homebirth often bumps you up the wait list though. And, how the midwives will implement provincial practice protocols *does* vary a bit depending on which practice you are with. As a generality, you are much more likely to get flexibility outside of the main metro areas/South. There are practices in Toronto, for example, that rarely see unmedicated birth, but practices further north where the vast majority are homebirths. You can decline anything, but, again, it depends on the practice in terms of how that is implemented. Anyway, call! Ask your questions. Good luck.
applejuice likes this.

For greater things are yet to come...

quantumleap is offline  
#12 of 12 Old 04-06-2017, 02:19 PM
 
srieger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I had two home births in BC within the last 4 years and our midwife practiced informed consent. As long as she could go over the risks/ benefits with you the decisions were yours to make. I opted out for all genetic testing and chose to have one ultrasound.
applejuice likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Married to
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 with E (3/13)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and A (1/15)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
at
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 and 
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
on the way (12/17).
srieger is offline  
Reply


User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Online Users: 16,805

35 members and 16,770 guests
bananabee , Bbygirl270 , Boodah'smama , brucebrown , Catholic Mama , CricketVS , Dakotacakes , Dovenoir , easydoesit , etsdtm99 , jamesmorrow , Janeen0225 , JHardy , Kellyim , LadyAnnibal , LibraSun , Lydia08 , manyhatsmom , megs4413 , Michele123 , moominmamma , MountainMamaGC , NaturallyKait , pokeyac , profe , RollerCoasterMama , rubelin , scheelimama , Springshowers , sren , VsAngela , worthy , zavierchick , zoeyzoo
Most users ever online was 449,755, 06-25-2014 at 12:21 PM.