Drinking beer while pregnant - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 155 Old 09-14-2006, 08:46 AM
 
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I am from Britain, I live in Germany with my American husband. We are six months pregnant and if I have so much as a white wine spritzer my husband freaks out. He thinks that I am abusing our child. Where I come from beer and wine are almost like having a coke. I know many people who drank throughout their pregnancy and wouldnt have just one drink of wine but a bottle. All their babies have been okay. I am no Doctor and can only take the advice of my American Doctor which is to have no alcohol, though the nurse that diagnosed my pregnancy at the American health clinic told me that I could have a glass of wine, they work next door to each other!
My advice - a little of what you like does you good!!!
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#122 of 155 Old 09-14-2006, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by nonconformnmom
Regardless, it is her body, her choice.
With all due respect, I strongly disagree. It is absolutely not just her body when she is pregnant.
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#123 of 155 Old 09-14-2006, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by andreac
To call another person's choice selfish is rude.
Rude? Or accurate ?

As a pp said, there is no compelling reason to drink. In previous centuries, it was necessary to drink because the e.coli content of the water was far more deadly than the alcohol. Now, that is not the case. The fact of the matter is that it has not been determined what amount of alcohol presents a danger for the simple reason that women's sizes and metabolisms vary; therefore, the safest option is not to do it at all. When your "choice" could result in the serious impairment of your child -- and the choice is not a necessary one, but one done only for your pleasure -- yes, it is absolutely selfish.

The definition of "rude" is not "I don't agree with you."
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#124 of 155 Old 09-14-2006, 09:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banrigh
I am from Britain, I live in Germany with my American husband. We are six months pregnant and if I have so much as a white wine spritzer my husband freaks out. He thinks that I am abusing our child. Where I come from beer and wine are almost like having a coke. I know many people who drank throughout their pregnancy and wouldnt have just one drink of wine but a bottle. All their babies have been okay. I am no Doctor and can only take the advice of my American Doctor which is to have no alcohol, though the nurse that diagnosed my pregnancy at the American health clinic told me that I could have a glass of wine, they work next door to each other!
My advice - a little of what you like does you good!!!
I certainly wouldn't drink a whole bottle, but I see no problem with the occasional glass of wine especially later in pregnancy. Britain definitely has a more relaxed view of alcohol ime - an American friend of mine was shocked that it's perfectly normal and acceptable to take children to pubs here.
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#125 of 155 Old 09-14-2006, 12:28 PM
 
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Just to chime in........

There was actually a big thread about this about two years ago!

As you can see, people are torn. However, I've seen studies presented from European countries in which a glass of wine every now and again is the norm, and there is no real difference in the FAS rates here or there.

To me that says that careful use of alcohol every now and again is probably fine.

I don't think we should go around telling women it's fine no matter what, of course you have to weigh risks and benefits. Having had very severe hypermesis in both my pregnancies, I can tell you that if a glass of wine would have helped, I would do it.
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#126 of 155 Old 09-14-2006, 01:05 PM
 
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What a great thread to have ressurrected, lol. Generally speaking.. I don't drink during pregnancy. But, a few weeks ago I had bronchitis, and to calm the coughing and get off to sleep, there were a few nights I had a glass of wine before bed (which appalled my teenage step daughter who thought I should try nyquil instead, lol.) I was out of the first trimester, it seemed trivial and helped, so I felt comfortable with it. However, when my midwife asked what I had been taking for the bronchitis, the wine came to mind and I did NOT mention it to her because I didn't want to get embroiled in this same sort of debate, or feel defensive over what seemed like a reasonable choice to me at the time. Now, for all I know, she might think it perfectly reasonable too - but, she might decide if I acknowledeged one, I must be drinking 6, and every night, and I just wasn't willing to endure where that conversation could go. But.. it makes me think the climate surrounding this issue - the policing, the distrust of average women to make reasonable decisions in front of the evidence - is just unhealthy. Sure, there's no evidence even a single drink is safe, but there's no evidence it isn't, either. So I just wish we could be trusted not to be idiots, and I could feel free to be forthcoming without a fear of being taken to task over something both minor (on the scale of risk factors,) and personal by someone else.
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#127 of 155 Old 09-14-2006, 04:04 PM
 
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Well said, Winterbaby!
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#128 of 155 Old 09-14-2006, 04:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMoe

To me, listening to a "woman's intuition" is not logical, as I don't even buy into the idea of intuition. I buy into medical facts, data and research of top universities.
This is very offensive- especially in a community like this. There are a great many empowered women who believe that their intuitions have been ignored long enough. Its the reason we homebirth, UC, EBF, GD, etc. Even though we are told to do otherwise, we as mothers know what is safe, helpful, dangerous, etc. for our children.

This is most definately not an issue of religion.

I'm glad I don't believe as you do- I'd be prepping myself for a managed hospital birth, ultrasounds and an obgyn sticking proby cold things up my yoohoo.

Anyways, I know this has already been discussed, but it just seems off base at MDC.

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Kristi wife to Mal , mom to Ziva (4/07) (3/08) Aliyah (1/09) and somebody new (edd 11/10). I
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#129 of 155 Old 09-14-2006, 06:52 PM
 
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I didn't read any of the other replies so forgive me if I'm reiterating, but I LOVE beer, and I buy non-alcoholic beer so I can still enjoy the flavor during pregnancy. They look, smell and taste like alcoholic beer, but with .5% alcohol content, so the average onlooker wouldn't know the difference. I've had some strange looks from quite a few people
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#130 of 155 Old 09-14-2006, 07:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roisin84
Britain definitely has a more relaxed view of alcohol ime - an American friend of mine was shocked that it's perfectly normal and acceptable to take children to pubs here.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3121440.stm

I'm not sure that's totally positive.

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#131 of 155 Old 09-14-2006, 07:52 PM
 
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You know, I really don't think the campaign to educate women about the effects of drinking while pregnant was meant to stigmatize anyone. Maybe some people have interpreted it that way, but overall I think the intent was just what I said, to educate.

And I would argue that it has been pretty successful. No, it hasn't helped alcoholics stop drinking. But it has taught most women (without serious addictions to alcohol) that it may be unsafe to drink heavily while pregnant. And I would guess that most women are glad to know that. I am. I drink very occasionally while pg, too, but if, for example, I'd kept drinking at the rate I was when I got pg with my dd, I'd probably have a child w/FAS or FAE. Fortunately, long before I got in to see any health care professional, I knew to lay off the booze (and beer). So, I guess if people are a little overzealous about the whole thing sometimes, I think it's worth it.

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#132 of 155 Old 09-15-2006, 12:08 AM
 
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mmm...speaking of which...I think I'll go make myself a bailey's and milk...

sorry, just trying to keep it light :
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#133 of 155 Old 09-15-2006, 02:10 AM
 
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How do you juxtapose these two comments/posts?:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetpea333
i dont understand why that is reasonable, sure it may not do long term damage. but how do you think a baby feels in the womb, when exposed to alcohol, you may not feel the buzz but the baby does. the baby can't stop that alcohol from going into their bodies, it's not just about fas!! you have no idea what the baby feels like after they've had a beer!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetpea333
a buzz is comfortable for you yes but you know what's goin on, . ive read that a baby in the womb would indefinitely feel dizzy and sick from a drink or two.
Furthermore, I think the comparison of having a drink while pregnant to giving a baby a bottle of beer is inaccurate at best. If I give my 6 month old a bottle of beer, her body ALONE is processing that alcohol. If I were to have a drink while preg, certainly the alcohol would be shared between our two bodies. Certainly there's some difference to be considered.

This whole thread is....something else. MrsMoe, the impression I get from your posts is that you feel even an occassional drink (say, 3-4/month) is tantamount to leaving a baby alone with a sharp knife. I understand your concern, but if you're striving to convert the rest of us to your viewpoint, perhaps you should check your sanctimonious tone at the door.

Additionally, I personally know of at least 3 doctors, (whose opinion you revere so greatly....in fact, beyond the common sense, intellegence, and yes, that dirty word, intuition of the average woman ) who told the woman that an occassional drink posed no risk to the unborn child.

Not too long ago, I posted a thread (I think in my DDC, but no matter), about whether or not it was "okay" for me to have an occassional NA beer. Fortunately, the responses in that thread were supportive. I can only imagine what I would have felt if the thread had turned into this.
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#134 of 155 Old 09-15-2006, 09:42 AM
 
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I haven't read the whole thread, but since this came up with my OB at pre-conception counseling the other day, I thought I'd share.

I asked her what the guidelines were for alcholol while pregnant, and described what I'd done in my first pregnancy: IE, I'd abstained for the first trimester, had about 1/2 glass of wine on a couple of occasions during the second semester, and had a couple of beers toward the end (no more than one at a sitting).

She said that the regulations had been changed since I was pg (in 1997), and that they now said NO alcohol at all (when I was pg, a couple of drinks a month was considered OK), but that "that's not for you, that's because some mothers took any license to drink as license to drink all the time" and that the amount I had had was perfectly and completely OK.

This is a rather mainstream American OB (not THAT mainstream, as she knows I'm having a HB but is agreeing to see me for prenatal care... its the best of both worlds for me as her hospital insists I'm "high-risk" due to early-stage MS and I WON'T deal with their "high-risk" policies, but I wanted this particular doc for prenatal, then a bomebirth with a midwife, and this doc will sign me in if I have to transfer. Anyway...) Like I said, fairly mainstream American doc, telling me that the American alcohol consumption warning is purposely excessive in order to scare alkie moms (not her phrasing, mine!) into not taking that first drink.

We also chatted about how tradition stouts can be very good for anemic/low B vitamin pregnant women.
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#135 of 155 Old 09-15-2006, 09:48 AM
 
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wow, it's amazing all the vastly different opinions on this topic.

i stopped drinking when we started ttc, and haven't had a drink since last new year's (i'm due next january), and when i remarked to my midwife that i reeeeally wanted a glass of wine, she seemed surprised that i had actually managed to not drink a drop. i asked if one glass of wine would be okay, and she said she couldn't advise me to have a glass of wine, but in other countries it's standard practice and no one thinks about it. in "the good old days" some hospitals used to bring around a tray of beer to the maternity wards because they thought it would get a new mama's milk started! my midwife said they typically recommend drinking a glass of wine at the beginning of labour to help the mama relax & get things going. a friend of mine was "prescribed" a pint of guiness a week when she was pregnant.

i'm tempted to have a glass of wine since my midwife assures me that one won't hurt anyone, but i figure i've made it this far, i can go the distance. and, if something *did* go wrong, i'd never forgive myself (i've had that conversation with myself a million times about a millioin different things... ham sandwiches... soft-serve ice cream...)

probably the "rules" will change a few more times... they used to say a woman shouldn't gain more than 12 pounds during pregnancy (hah! i'm sure i gained 12 pounds by 12 weeks), and if a preggo found she was hungry, she should have a cigarette instead to quell her appetite.

when my mama was preg with my sister, the doctors said "everyone should go on hospital bed rest for two weeks from week 14 to week 16, as this is a critical time" so off she went to the hospital, where they gave her sleeping pills at night. she didn't want to take them, so she'd have a cocktail or two (manhattans) instead. my sister is a bit of a nutcase... don't know if there's any connection there!

it seems silly to talk about the distant past as a relevant comparison... sure, maybe women used to drink throughout pregnancy, back in the days when mamas and babes both would die in childbirth all the time, and the average life expectancy was 40. times have changed since then, and thank goodness!

2 drinks a night, 4 nights a week, does sound like a LOT. how well do you know this woman? is she otherwise really on top of taking care of her preggo self - eating well, lots of leafy greens and all that other good stuff, plenty of fluids, reading all the books, yada yada? or does she seem not that interested in the whole pregnancy thing? i know for us, we spent a long time ttc, and have been very vigilant about trying to do things right, and i have been surprised when i've met preggos who don't seem to know or care about folic acid and iron levels and all of that. maybe she doesn't know, maybe she's taking a calculated risk.
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#136 of 155 Old 09-15-2006, 10:14 AM
 
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not trying to grind an axe here, but last night I had a glass of wine before bed in an attempt to relax and avoid another hellishly unrestful night. My MIL the doctor said it was a fine idea. I very, very rarely drank anything in my pre-pregnant life (since pregnancy, I've had 3 or 4 glasses of wine in the last 9 months, with food), & I'm a pretty cheap date. So--the one small glass of wine did a great job of mellowing me out. Only problem was... when I got up to go to the bathroom, my usually squirmy baby was TOTALLY STILL and took major prodding for 5 minutes or more to provoke any movement. It scared the crap out of me, which is exactly what I don't need right now. So much for relaxing! From now on, I think I'll just stick with the warm milk.

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#137 of 155 Old 09-15-2006, 02:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMoe
I don't think so. Nobody here said anything about about a single drink once in a while. The issue is regular drinking. I'm sorry if I made you feel like I thought bad of anyone for having a glass of champange on New Years or another holiday.
YOU have said, several times, that you'd never expose your child to "booze", and asked why it's so important for a mama to have alcohol during pregnancy. So, while you're paying lip service to it being okay with you for a mama to have an occasional drink, your repeated comments and assertions are completely contradictory to that.
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#138 of 155 Old 09-15-2006, 03:42 PM
 
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I wouldn't worry too much...babies in the womb sleep 90% of the time, and are very hard to wake up. I just watched that documentary on NGC, "In The Womb." It was very fascinating.
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#139 of 155 Old 09-16-2006, 02:44 AM
 
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it seems silly to talk about the distant past as a relevant comparison... sure, maybe women used to drink throughout pregnancy, back in the days when mamas and babes both would die in childbirth all the time, and the average life expectancy was 40. times have changed since then, and thank goodness!
Homebirth opponents use those exact words to shoot down womens desires to birth at home you know... just thought I'd point that out.

FWIW I think women used to die in childbirth not from drinking beer but from things like placental rupture resulting in excessive bleeding. No blood transfusions back then! Or infections. The world was not so sterile back then either. Failure to thrive for little guys who made it out was pretty common. All kinds of diseases, etc. Of course if you live in a third world country without access to modern medical care, those things still apply to you. Also...

"Behind the direct causes of maternal mortality—obstetric complications and unsafe abortions—lie the conditions of women's lives: inadequate care during delivery, chronic disease and malnutrition, poverty, isolation, and unwanted pregnancies." http://www.infoforhealth.org/pr/m12/m12chap2_1.shtml

I know you weren't saying that drinking a beer would cause a mom or baby to die.. I just thought that argument was completely erroneous. Talking about a lack of zillions of FAS babies when moms used to drink LOTS commonly is really, not. I still don't think we should drink lots... but I am like the majority of women here, I don't see a problem with an occassional drink.

I'll also add that it is kind of funny to me how most of mainstream America avoids certain things like the plague while pregnant... alcohol, caffeine, tuna... but they feel perfectly fine waltzing into a hospital with veins at the ready for whatever drugs the doctors want to pump into them. : I don't get it!

BTW I am seriously wondering... what is wrong with soft-serve ice-cream?
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#140 of 155 Old 09-17-2006, 11:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prettypixels
I'll also add that it is kind of funny to me how most of mainstream America avoids certain things like the plague while pregnant... alcohol, caffeine, tuna... but they feel perfectly fine waltzing into a hospital with veins at the ready for whatever drugs the doctors want to pump into them. : I don't get it!
I totally agree! A woman I work with totally chastized me for having a cup of decaf coffee, but then told me I should just go to the store and get some anti-nausea medicine for morning sickness, and thinks I'm crazy for not taking narcotics during childbirth. It's very strange.
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#141 of 155 Old 09-19-2006, 01:09 AM
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AFAIK there's never been a study proving the existince of FAS. Identification of a FAS seems to have been an artifact of lack of observer blinding, which was then carried on into the design of further studies. Blinded expert observers have been unable to consistently identify a complex of signs that constitute any particular syndrome from alcohol consumption. About the most that can be said with any reliability (from a combination of epidemiology & animal models) is that well beyond the point of moderate drinking (well in excess of the 2 drinks/day being discussed here as excessive), there is a negative correlation of birth weight to increased alcohol consumption. In other words, among gravid women who are all in the class of heavy drinkers, the more they drink, the smaller the babies tend to be at birth.

Further, the paucity of studies seeking to identify benefits to the offspring from alcohol consumption biases the entire subject. How do we know that abstaining from alcohol during pregnancy or during its 1st trimester is not the cause of defects? (If you naively tried to project the regression line from the heavy drinkers, it would predict that failure to drink daily would lead to IDM-sized babies!) For that matter, how do we know that eating, or abstaining from, licorice or Brussels sprouts or who-knows-what can't be found to be associated with some adverse outcome? None of them have been proven safe at any level either, but because they don't carry any moral baggage, they have not drawn similar fire.

The same can be said of post-natal consumption of alcohol. There's no reason to think children's bodies to be severely intolerant to alcohol.

Robert
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#142 of 155 Old 09-19-2006, 07:33 PM
 
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#143 of 155 Old 09-19-2006, 09:03 PM
 
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I might have a glass of wine in labor, or maybe during some night of painful B/H when tea just isn't working.
I don't have an issue with a drink during pregnancy. I have the common sense, and moderation in mind with alcohol..Pepsi or chocolate on the other hand... :
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#144 of 155 Old 09-19-2006, 09:12 PM
 
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well, I know of many kids with FAS and it is not something I care to cause in my own children. I choose not to take in any alcohol at all!

I also have a theory about those europeans. I think that their systems are better equipted to handle alcohol. Ours are not. I dont know what happend but when europeans came to america suddenly alcohol turning into something of nightmares. People drank in excess over and over and over again. I think this did something to our genetic makeup and our abiltiy to deal with alcohol.
That is why there is FAS more so in America then in Europe.

Either way, Alcohol is NOT passing through these lips anytime I am with child.
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#145 of 155 Old 09-20-2006, 07:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by darsmama View Post
I might have a glass of wine in labor, or maybe during some night of painful B/H when tea just isn't working.
I don't have an issue with a drink during pregnancy. I have the common sense, and moderation in mind with alcohol..Pepsi or chocolate on the other hand... :
OH NO....I know I didn't hear you dis Pepsi........ My hubby gets so mad at me, as it takes a week for me to finish a 20 oz bottle of Pepsi. "I'm saaaavoring it" I tell him.

MrsMoe - did you know that 98% of statistics can be manipulated to say whatever you want them to?

DH Cain Mamma to 3 girls LO due 2/15
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#146 of 155 Old 09-20-2006, 09:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by beachcomber View Post
Pregnant women in the US and by default Canada are policed far too much by doctors, spouses, friends and neighbors. It's bordering on obsessive. It is totally unacceptable that society has been granted this right to monitor, report on and chastise pregnant women. No one is watched as closely as the pregnant woman. We lose self determination because suddenly everyone has a right to comment on everything we put into our mouthes, be it an herbal tea, a vitamin or a morsel of food.
Well said!!!!!
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#147 of 155 Old 09-20-2006, 10:08 AM
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Well I have a adopted brother in law who has FAS and I see the effects. I think drinking beer with child is totally wrong. Also if some think that it depends on the chil, that some will get it and some won't, why would you want to take that chance. You get to have a moment of pleasure drinking it but then your child has to suffer a lifetime of difficults. Just not worth it.

Mama to Noah- 05, Eden - 07, Isabella -09 and Cade -11 

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#148 of 155 Old 09-20-2006, 11:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
AFAIK there's never been a study proving the existince of FAS. Identification of a FAS seems to have been an artifact of lack of observer blinding, which was then carried on into the design of further studies. Blinded expert observers have been unable to consistently identify a complex of signs that constitute any particular syndrome from alcohol consumption. About the most that can be said with any reliability (from a combination of epidemiology & animal models) is that well beyond the point of moderate drinking (well in excess of the 2 drinks/day being discussed here as excessive), there is a negative correlation of birth weight to increased alcohol consumption. In other words, among gravid women who are all in the class of heavy drinkers, the more they drink, the smaller the babies tend to be at birth.

Further, the paucity of studies seeking to identify benefits to the offspring from alcohol consumption biases the entire subject. How do we know that abstaining from alcohol during pregnancy or during its 1st trimester is not the cause of defects? (If you naively tried to project the regression line from the heavy drinkers, it would predict that failure to drink daily would lead to IDM-sized babies!) For that matter, how do we know that eating, or abstaining from, licorice or Brussels sprouts or who-knows-what can't be found to be associated with some adverse outcome? None of them have been proven safe at any level either, but because they don't carry any moral baggage, they have not drawn similar fire.

The same can be said of post-natal consumption of alcohol. There's no reason to think children's bodies to be severely intolerant to alcohol.

Robert
Well at least no one can accuse you of just making stuff up to justify drinking while you're pregnant!

Another thing...doctors and the allopathic medical establishment....they've never been wrong before, right?
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#149 of 155 Old 09-20-2006, 03:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by roadfamily6now View Post
well, I know of many kids with FAS and it is not something I care to cause in my own children. I choose not to take in any alcohol at all!

I also have a theory about those europeans. I think that their systems are better equipted to handle alcohol. Ours are not. I dont know what happend but when europeans came to america suddenly alcohol turning into something of nightmares. People drank in excess over and over and over again. I think this did something to our genetic makeup and our abiltiy to deal with alcohol.
That is why there is FAS more so in America then in Europe.

Either way, Alcohol is NOT passing through these lips anytime I am with child.

It is certainly your choice whether to drink alcohol or not. However I think your "theory" is bunk. Do you have any scientific basis for this "theory" of yours, or is it just your way of rationalization?
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#150 of 155 Old 09-20-2006, 03:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
AFAIK there's never been a study proving the existince of FAS. Identification of a FAS seems to have been an artifact of lack of observer blinding, which was then carried on into the design of further studies. Blinded expert observers have been unable to consistently identify a complex of signs that constitute any particular syndrome from alcohol consumption. About the most that can be said with any reliability (from a combination of epidemiology & animal models) is that well beyond the point of moderate drinking (well in excess of the 2 drinks/day being discussed here as excessive), there is a negative correlation of birth weight to increased alcohol consumption. In other words, among gravid women who are all in the class of heavy drinkers, the more they drink, the smaller the babies tend to be at birth.

Further, the paucity of studies seeking to identify benefits to the offspring from alcohol consumption biases the entire subject. How do we know that abstaining from alcohol during pregnancy or during its 1st trimester is not the cause of defects? (If you naively tried to project the regression line from the heavy drinkers, it would predict that failure to drink daily would lead to IDM-sized babies!) For that matter, how do we know that eating, or abstaining from, licorice or Brussels sprouts or who-knows-what can't be found to be associated with some adverse outcome? None of them have been proven safe at any level either, but because they don't carry any moral baggage, they have not drawn similar fire.

The same can be said of post-natal consumption of alcohol. There's no reason to think children's bodies to be severely intolerant to alcohol.

Robert
What exactly are you basing this on? There have been hundreds of studies done on FAS, many of those have conclusively found certain facial characteristics resulting from heavy alcohol consumption during the time immediately following implantation until about 12 weeks, if I remember correctly.

I thought this argument was about very minor alcohol consumption. I think you're the first to assert that heavy drinking doesn't risk harming your unborn child, and I just can't agree with you there. Yes, doctors are frequently wrong. Yes, medicine frequently makes mistakes. But there have been extensive studies done on FAS/E, and I just don't see what the medical profession stands to gain from arguing that women shouldn't drink while pregnant.

For some of those studies, go to www.pubmed.gov and search FAS.

Here's an interesting one about Italy which I think relates to the discussion:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

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