Actress Rachel Weisz says drinking during pregnancy is fine - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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I'm Pregnant > Actress Rachel Weisz says drinking during pregnancy is fine
Arduinna's Avatar Arduinna 05:54 PM 11-15-2006
well damn, how did we all make it through the middle ages when everyone drank mead and beers as a daily beverage and rarely drank water.

Sharlla's Avatar Sharlla 05:57 PM 11-15-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post
She won best supporting actress for it at the academy awards and the golden globes.
Oh well I don't really watch TV that much and definitley don't watch those award shows so maybe that's why I never herad of it.
Shonahsmom's Avatar Shonahsmom 06:03 PM 11-15-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharlla View Post
Oh well I don't really watch TV that much and definitley don't watch those award shows so maybe that's why I never herad of it.
It's an amazing movie. I highly recommend it.
HoosierDiaperinMama's Avatar HoosierDiaperinMama 06:06 PM 11-15-2006
I had a totally different response in mind for this thread, but the more I think about it, the more I agree w/Penelope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penelope View Post
I didn't drink during either pregnancy, but that was about my personal comfort level.

The Lucky One's Avatar The Lucky One 06:10 PM 11-15-2006
My concerns with alcohol during pg are these:

I think the amt of alcohol that could be toxic to a fetus varies with each mother and fetus. There isn't a known 'safe' amount across the board. Some people can smoke for 70 years and never get cancer or emphysema, while others may develop cancer or emphysema simply from second hand smoke.

Also, the effects of alcohol on a fetus may not be seen until the child is school-aged (and has to do things like sit still, concentrate, think abstractly, etc) and so a correlation to alcohol may not be drawn.

Ack...gotta go.
Periwinkle's Avatar Periwinkle 06:15 PM 11-15-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies View Post
Posters jump on the whole, "Well Europeans drink all the time!" Yeah, and what did that lead to? A legacy of genocide and wars and kids shooting up their classmates.....


and people who wear white after Labor Day and hardwater stains on kitchen sinks and daffodil bulbs that get eaten by squirrels and
darsmama's Avatar darsmama 06:21 PM 11-15-2006
The constant gardener was a WONDERFUL movie. Truly beautiful and sad. Have the tissues ready.

As I've said before, I don't drink during pregnancy just because it dosen't sound good. I don't seen anything wrong with a glass of wine here or there though.
I've never spent much time researching the issue. You can google to find any information to support your POV, so I just went with common sense and saved my time.
Arduinna's Avatar Arduinna 06:24 PM 11-15-2006
I think this thread wins the award for most moved thread of the day. Started out in N&CE moved to TAO now moved to I'm pregnant. I'm dizzy.
cjanelles 06:34 PM 11-15-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
ITA! don't touch that beer! yet my OB just tried to prescribe me vicodin for my pregnancy headaches. :

But the difference is that vicodin doesn't cross the placenta...:
Ahappymel's Avatar Ahappymel 06:38 PM 11-15-2006
Someone may have already said this (I haven't read every response) but I think it ridiculous that there is so much fear about a pregnant mom ingesting one glass of wine or beer when the US birth model will support the use of epidurals and other drugs for use during pregnancy/childbirth. Not to mention the advocacy for the administration of vaccinations that contain neurotoxins to small infants and pregnant women.
Personally, I didn't drink even before I was pregnant, but that's mainly because I would feel sicky next day even if I had just one.
chinaKat's Avatar chinaKat 07:03 PM 11-15-2006
My m/w and I had a talk about alcohol during my 1st pregnancy. Her feeling was that the US stance on total abstinence during pregnancy was due to the fact that alcohol is such a slippery slope.

If you say it's okay to have one drink, what does that really mean? Some of my wine glasses probably hold 8 ounces (yeah!!!). A martini is pretty much straight booze. An Amstel light won't even give you a buzz.

Plus... after having one, its SO EASY to have two. Alcohol, after all, loosens one's inhibitions.

And, some people take the "once in a while" idea differently than others. Some might think that means once a month, while others might think it means once a day.

Hence the slippery slope.

Personally, I feel that if a mama knows she can exercise good judgment, has no prior issues with alcohol, and feels comfortable taking a drink, it's fine from time to time in the 2nd/3rd tri. For myself, that means maybe one drink a month, on a special occasion. And not during the first tri. And never enough to catch a buzz.

If that's too much for you and your pregnancy, that's fine with me. If you want to drink more than that, I would suggest mindfulness of your consumption, but unless you are getting inebriated, I'm not going to say anything.
amyleigh33's Avatar amyleigh33 07:48 PM 11-15-2006
I'm a vegan, an activist, I am very conscious (if not paranoid) about alterior motives when it comes to things the government, doctors, and other authority figures reccomend you do and don't do; and despite this I am going to have to take the seemingly unpopular and apparently not progressive stance and agree with OnTheFence here.

After working with kids in a variety of settings for most of my teenage years either volunteering or employed; and seeing the intellectual, developmental, physical and behavioural differences between children who were likely suffering from FAE or even FAS, I can't imagine taking that risk for my own personal enjoyment. It is for this same reason that I abstain from consuming animal products, purchasing sweatshop clothing, etc. While -I- might enjoy it, there is potential or certain greater suffering for others.

Since it would be highly unethical to "test" to see when and how much alcohol women can safely consume during pregnancy, what other factors effect it, etc.; all we can rely upon is info about FAS & FAE that has been obtained not using any sort of scientific methodology. Therefore, and as OnTheFence stated, it is not entirely possible to know for certain how much and when is safe. So why not just stop?

I find it interesting that on a board where so many folks are (rightfully so) against circumcision, one of the reasons being that it's making a decision about someone else's body, that they wouldn't also support the notion that a woman should not drink during pregnancy.

(Perhaps we'd be more comfortable if we could convice doctors and health authorities to say that our partners should ALSO not drink during pregnancy? )

EVEN IF - the effect of you having a few glasses of wine during your 2nd and 3rd trimester was that your kid was just a little bit more hyper than others and had just a TINY bit more trouble concentrating in school or on other studies (if, by some divine measure you could verily link the two); why wouldn't you just not drink?

Anyways. That's what I have to say about that. I'm open to any counterstands as long as they fall short of flaming ... Oh, except one last thing - Rachel's statement ("they do it in Europe"?) AMAZINGLY sound argument, by the way. :
Tapioca's Avatar Tapioca 07:58 PM 11-15-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheFence View Post
His mother was not a binge drinker and did not drink in the last trimister of pregnancy at all.
See, this is the problem I have with so many of the studies/anecdotal evidence/research on FAS/FAE. How do you KNOW that this woman was not a binge drinker? Unless she was locked in a cage and her drinking was monitored, who knows, really, how much she drank. People can lie, or not remember, or whatever. I remain skeptical.
Mamma Mia's Avatar Mamma Mia 08:07 PM 11-15-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by funshine View Post
No, see, MODERATION is the key.

So would be ok

But not the excessive huggin' and drinkin' you've got going on. Even Rachel Weisz would be appalled!
Well I'm not preggers so I can get as sloshed as I want!
Arduinna's Avatar Arduinna 08:29 PM 11-15-2006
Quote:
Plus... after having one, its SO EASY to have two. Alcohol, after all, loosens one's inhibitions.
While some people may have that, many many don't. I'm one of them that doesn't I have a natural stopping point, usually before the first one is done. I just lose interest.
chinaKat's Avatar chinaKat 08:54 PM 11-15-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post
While some people may have that, many many don't. I'm one of them that doesn't I have a natural stopping point, usually before the first one is done. I just lose interest.
Right. And that's why I said, later in the same post, that I think alcohol during pregnancy is fine for mamas with no previous issues with alcohol.

Inability to know when to stop would surely be one of them!


Arwyn's Avatar Arwyn 09:01 PM 11-15-2006
I feel about alcohol in prenancy the same way I do non-organic strawberries or tuna fish sandwiches. Yes, it contains toxins for which we know no safe limits. Overdosing will DEFINITELY cause problems. But y'know what? No one snatches a batch of strawberries out of a pregnant woman's hand - no one should do that for alcohol, either.

Educate - and by that, I don't mean blast with propaganda or anecdotal evidence. Talk about the risks and benefits, the times when alcohol is more or less damaging, then back the heck off.

There are times, for each woman, when the benefits may outweigh the risks. Set reasonable guidelines, when we KNOW something is harmful (getting smashed in pregnancy or having several drinks a day) consider intervening, but for all this stuff about which we can say "Y'know, this probably isn't the absolute best idea" - say that if you must, then trust each woman to make the best decisions for her and her fetus.

I don't drink. At all - can't stand the taste of alcohol. Kind of wish I did, but I don't, which is just as well given my risk for addiction. But I do love me my family's annual eggnog (made with a little rum), and keeping up with that seasonal tradition is worth the minuscule risk to me, just like I had Burgerville strawberry lemonade last summer and a tunafish sandwich last week. None of these choices are optimal if my sole goal is to avoid introducing toxins to my uterine environment, but I knew the risks, I made an educated choice, and I'm ok with it.

My biggest problem with the absolutest stance we take on alcohol in pregnancy in this culture is that we DON'T address other, arguably as or more important dietary risks, like murcury or pesticides. NO alcohol EVER in pregnancy or you're a HORRIBLE mother, but go ahead and have a couple servings of tuna a month? Don't worry about those amalgam fillings, here, have this thimerosol-laden flu shot, and while we're at it, it's only YOUR responsibility to eat well, but not OUR responsibility to make sure you have clean air to breathe and clean water to drink, that your foods aren't poisoned to start with?

It's not that there isn't a point to avoiding alcohol - it's that the lines we draw in pregnancy about what is and isn't acceptable are arbitrary, and cultural, NOT purely evidenced based, and we hold ONLY the pregnant woman accountable for the health of her child. Where's the outrage at the corporations and governments that pollute our fetal sources of oxygen, of water, of food? When we, as a culture, and doctors and makers of policy, start getting as upset with corporate pollution of the fetal environment as we do at women who use alcohol in pregnancy, then I will stop saying this is largely about controlling women and their bodies.
~member~'s Avatar ~member~ 09:05 PM 11-15-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post
well damn, how did we all make it through the middle ages when everyone drank mead and beers as a daily beverage and rarely drank water.
Just because people survived does not mean they thrived. Alcohol destroys the part of the brain that empathizes.....maybe that's why they had such barbaric torturing devices?
Mamma Mia's Avatar Mamma Mia 09:12 PM 11-15-2006
Arwyn
OnTheFence's Avatar OnTheFence 09:17 PM 11-15-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapioca View Post
See, this is the problem I have with so many of the studies/anecdotal evidence/research on FAS/FAE. How do you KNOW that this woman was not a binge drinker? Unless she was locked in a cage and her drinking was monitored, who knows, really, how much she drank. People can lie, or not remember, or whatever. I remain skeptical.
You can remain skeptical. I really dont care. I just think its stupid to injest the stuff while pregnant not knowing with 100% certainty it just didnt damage your fetus. ITs amazing how many women on this forum will not circ or vax but will consume alcohol and think its risk free. Uh huh. :

How do you not know that drinking one drink doesnt alter the brain and will make that particular child have adhd, add, sid, or land on the autism spectrum disorder? You cant, simply put. No matter how many times you consume alcohol, you put your fetus at risk. And not in just the first trimester either. The brain and organs are still developing and can still be damaged. Also your childs appearance can be damaged by alcohol, the eyesight and the hearing in the last trimisters as well.

Here is what I do know -- my sons birthmother was honest about her alcohol consumption during her pregnancy. She was upfront about it from the beginning. He was adopted out of foster care, but a private domestic adoption. I know that she did not drink during the last trimister either. I dont have to go into all the sordid details here, but lets just say I KNOW. However, while he is bright, with a high IQ, developmentally advanced, and does well in school -- it has been a long struggle of discipline problems and a babyhood that would rock a parents world. I am sure for many here it would be easy to say it was something outside the womb that did it, like vaccines which seem to be the thing everything wants to blame the ills of their child on, however he was not vaccinated until after he was 2. I think instead of blaming vaccines, formula, and other conspiracy theories on the ills of children maybe more mamas who consume alcohol should look to that when their children have speech delays, walking delays, and other cognitive or developmental problems. The thing is no one wants to lame blame at the feet of a mother for just having a few drinks here and there while pregnant because hell, look at the Europeans! They are all fine. (BS) Fact: FAS and FAE is completely preventable. Fact: No one can know exactly how much alcohol or when it is consumed will damage a fetus Fact: The damage is irreversable and life long.

Maybe spending a few days with my son would convince you those few glasses of wine, beer, or margaritas is not worth it.
OnTheFence's Avatar OnTheFence 09:19 PM 11-15-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies View Post
Just because people survived does not mean they thrived. Alcohol destroys the part of the brain that empathizes.....maybe that's why they had such barbaric torturing devices?
Not too mention died younger and had a lot of health problems.

And you know what, not drinking any alcohol during pregnancy is based on facts, not just something pull out their arses.
Niamh's Avatar Niamh 09:32 PM 11-15-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies View Post
Just because people survived does not mean they thrived. Alcohol destroys the part of the brain that empathizes.....maybe that's why they had such barbaric torturing devices?
Odd conclusion.
jessitron's Avatar jessitron 09:36 PM 11-15-2006
Quote:
Nothing brings out the rabid in people like drinking during pregnancy.
Mmm, maybe not using a carseat. But yeah, that's about it.

Quote:
it's that the lines we draw in pregnancy about what is and isn't acceptable are arbitrary, and cultural, NOT purely evidenced based,
That's exactly it! Loved your post, Arwyn.

This thread has turned out to be full of interesting, intelligent arguments. Very few irrationaly flaming posts. Hurray, this is what I keep coming back to MDC for!

Personally I'll have a glass of wine here and there while pregnant. It is like all the other "risky" foods. To me, the benefits outweigh the risks. Stress is definitely bad for babies, and wine helps with stress, for instance.
If you eliminate all "risky" foods entirely you'll drive yourself insane and be hungry.

Americans are psychotic about alcohol in general, compared to Europeans. All or nothing, that's us. Either you don't drink or you're a drunk. Why else can a 20-yr-old not buy alcohol? Drives me crazy.

From the news article:
Quote:
She is also wrong about Europe because as of October 2007, France are putting warning labels on all stock in the shops.
Right, and that means they won't be drinking it anymore! ha ha.

OnTheFence (who is definitely not on the fence on this one!), thank you for your commentary. I will think about it next time I'm considering whether to have a glass of wine with a particular meal.
mhenry's Avatar mhenry 10:09 PM 11-15-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjanelles View Post
But the difference is that vicodin doesn't cross the placenta...:
I don't think that's true.
Mamma Mia's Avatar Mamma Mia 10:51 PM 11-15-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjanelles View Post
But the difference is that vicodin doesn't cross the placenta...:
I didn't catch that before either. What makes you think the vicodin doesn't cross the placenta? If it is in mom's bloodstream, it's crossing the placenta. It's amazing to me what doctor's will prescribe women during pregnancy. My last doula client was told by her CNM to take morphine to stop her labor and yet if she had shown up with small amounts of wine in her system (much less addictive and less dangerous for the baby, and works well to slow or stop early labor) she could have had her child taken at birth. It boggles the mind.:

Evidence based medicine should not only be actually practiced, but it should apply to reactions against patients as well.
peacelovingmama's Avatar peacelovingmama 10:55 PM 11-15-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arwyn View Post
I feel about alcohol in prenancy the same way I do non-organic strawberries or tuna fish sandwiches. Yes, it contains toxins for which we know no safe limits. Overdosing will DEFINITELY cause problems. But y'know what? No one snatches a batch of strawberries out of a pregnant woman's hand - no one should do that for alcohol, either.

Educate - and by that, I don't mean blast with propaganda or anecdotal evidence. Talk about the risks and benefits, the times when alcohol is more or less damaging, then back the heck off.

There are times, for each woman, when the benefits may outweigh the risks. Set reasonable guidelines, when we KNOW something is harmful (getting smashed in pregnancy or having several drinks a day) consider intervening, but for all this stuff about which we can say "Y'know, this probably isn't the absolute best idea" - say that if you must, then trust each woman to make the best decisions for her and her fetus.

I don't drink. At all - can't stand the taste of alcohol. Kind of wish I did, but I don't, which is just as well given my risk for addiction. But I do love me my family's annual eggnog (made with a little rum), and keeping up with that seasonal tradition is worth the minuscule risk to me, just like I had Burgerville strawberry lemonade last summer and a tunafish sandwich last week. None of these choices are optimal if my sole goal is to avoid introducing toxins to my uterine environment, but I knew the risks, I made an educated choice, and I'm ok with it.

My biggest problem with the absolutest stance we take on alcohol in pregnancy in this culture is that we DON'T address other, arguably as or more important dietary risks, like murcury or pesticides. NO alcohol EVER in pregnancy or you're a HORRIBLE mother, but go ahead and have a couple servings of tuna a month? Don't worry about those amalgam fillings, here, have this thimerosol-laden flu shot, and while we're at it, it's only YOUR responsibility to eat well, but not OUR responsibility to make sure you have clean air to breathe and clean water to drink, that your foods aren't poisoned to start with?

It's not that there isn't a point to avoiding alcohol - it's that the lines we draw in pregnancy about what is and isn't acceptable are arbitrary, and cultural, NOT purely evidenced based, and we hold ONLY the pregnant woman accountable for the health of her child. Where's the outrage at the corporations and governments that pollute our fetal sources of oxygen, of water, of food? When we, as a culture, and doctors and makers of policy, start getting as upset with corporate pollution of the fetal environment as we do at women who use alcohol in pregnancy, then I will stop saying this is largely about controlling women and their bodies.
I share these views.

There are risk-benefit calculations for many things pregnant women do/ingest/imbibe. Are there safe levels for saccharin? Pesticides on fruits? Pollution?

Some people just can't understand a woman wanting to enjoy a glass of champagne on her birthday or unwinding with a glass of wine now and then. And that's fine, I get that. Not everyone enjoys alcohol. What I don't get is the singling out of alcohol as the huge symbol of a "bad mother." I am personally more troubled by the consumption of known-carcinogens during pregnancy than of small amounts of alcohol. But, to each her own.
jstar's Avatar jstar 10:56 PM 11-15-2006
i think it is because vicodin (morphine and the opiates) are not considered teteragenic and alcohol is. it crosses the placenta, it just doesn't 'damage' the baby so it is considered ok.
Mamma Mia's Avatar Mamma Mia 11:10 PM 11-15-2006
Opiates are not considered teratogenic?
Mamma Mia's Avatar Mamma Mia 11:12 PM 11-15-2006
http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/teratogens.html

This is a compprhensive list of known and suspected teratogens. There are a few opiates on this list.
Mamma Mia's Avatar Mamma Mia 11:17 PM 11-15-2006
Drug information on vicodin:
Vicodin is in the FDA pregnancy category C. This means that it is not known whether it will be harmful to an unborn baby. Do not take this medication without first talking to your doctor if you are pregnant or could become pregnant during treatment.
http://www.drugs.com/vicodin.html
Vicodin passes into breast milk and may affect a nursing infant. Do not take this medication without first talking to your doctor if you are breast-feeding a baby.

Not to mention the fact the it is well known that vicodin shuts down the digestive track (as do all opiates) and therefore prevents food that is eaten from being properly absorbed. What is the nutritional effect of vicodin on a fetus?


I'm just saying that it is ridiculous that alcohol is made out to be a really really bad guy and potentially teratogenic drugs are handed out like candy to pregnant women by the same docotrs that will test their blood for alcohol and pot and take away their kids for a drink to stop labor or a few hits of MJ for hyperemesis.

I don't think that this attitude exists in a vaccum apart from a post prohibition, post puritan/post victorian, post reefer madness society.

edit: Hydrocodone, the ingredient besides tylenol in vicodin, was found to be teratogenic in animal tests, but was approved for human use anyway, and is listed as a pregnancy class C drug. Animal testing isn't always a good gauge for figuring out what works with humans, but it is a good indication that a drug may not be a good choice for pregnancy.
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