Incomplete Breech - Help - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 9 Old 07-14-2003, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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My sister just phoned me from Maryland in tears. She's just back from her midwife appointment (CNM in an OB office, very doctor like, but covered on insurance). Her baby is sitting "indian style" or "squaw" style with her feet under her, back towards her right side, head up. She is 35 weeks along. The midwife matter of factly informed her of the position (we knew she was breech already) & flipped open a calender to schedule a c-section. Her due date is August 16th & the midwife wanted to schedule her for August 2nd. She refused & went home. The midwife told her to call as soon as possible so they could get her scheduled.

I read this thread: & wrote down the Breech tilt position (which I think she's been doing already, though I'm not sure how frequently), the Pulsatilla, visualizations, accupuncture, light & music therapy suggestions.

When her husband gets home from work, they are going to phone other doctors & midwives for second opinions in the hopes of finding someone who is willing to try some of these things. Her current midwife & doctor simply told her that incomplete breech babys "never turn" & they didn't even want to try to manually turn her.

My mother had 4 unneccessary cesearan births & we're well aware of how they've affected her over the years. My sister would like to avoid one if at all possible. This is her first birth.

Any other suggestions? Links? Anyone in the Maryland area that could refer us to someone who has delivered breech babies, or would at least be willing to try & wait to see if the baby turns rather than booking her for the first c-section slot?

Any help would be gratefully appreciated.
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#2 of 9 Old 07-14-2003, 07:34 PM
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wish I could be of real help... but I dont see how that midwife can give up so easily.. not fair to your sister at all.

You asked for site recommendations..

I like this one

also have her search the midwifery archives, there is loads of excellent info on there

I hope your sister can avoid a C-section rate, I am sending turn turn turn vibes her way!!

Good Luck,

p.s. you could check with chiropractors that do the "webster technique" in her area also!!
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#3 of 9 Old 07-14-2003, 09:14 PM
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What I don't understand is why they want to schedule the csection so early compared to her due date! I'm not an expert on this, but if she is able to get second and third opinions on the baby's position and they all agree that a csection is best, hopefully she at least won't feel so bad about it being unecessary. I just can't believe how insensitive that midwife sounds though!


7yo: "Mom,I know which man is on a quarter and which on is on a nickel. They both have ponytails, but one man has a collar and the other man is naked. The naked man was our first president."
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#4 of 9 Old 07-14-2003, 10:47 PM
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Some thoughts, summarized from The VBAC Companion by Diana Korte.

Usually in a breech position the care provider, especially midwives, will try an external cephalic version ("version") to turn the baby from the outside by the 37th or 38th week. It's usually done in a hospital after an ultrasound, and they give you a muscle-relaxing drug like terbutaline to soften the muscles. Versions are successful 50-65 percent of the time.

Here are some other suggested ways to turn a breech baby:

~Do the pelvic rock exercise 3-5 times a day
~Get into the knee-chest position for 20 minutes, 3 times a day
~Lie on a slant board (ironing board works!) head down and feet up for 30 minutes at a time several times a day. Stop and get your feet on the floor if you feel dizzy.
~Chiropractic care: ask around for someone who does the Webster Technique

I hope your sister can find someone to work with her, it's ridiculous to schedule a csection this early without even TRYING to turn that baby. Plus, even if it won't turn she can ask to go into labor before the csection so she knows the baby is at least ready to be born. I had a friend who did that with her footling breech that wouldn't turn despite TONS of effort on her part. It made her feel better knowing that she tried and gave her daughter every day to grow and mature.

If I think of anything else I'll post again!
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#5 of 9 Old 08-01-2003, 04:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm very late in responding...

Thanks so much for all of your thoughts. Her midwife & doctor aren't willing to work with her much on this. Her husband called & demanded they at least try to turn the baby - the doctor's partner ended up assisting them this evening with an external version. The partner is far more experienced with breech turning & breech births & was very nice. "Molly" as we're calling my sister's baby wouldn't budge. Her heart rate dropped so they only tried twice.

My sister has been doing everything under the sun to get her to turn.

Her midwife wanted her to schedule her c-section for Saturday... as in two days from now!!! after the failed external version this evening. They said no & listened to the risks of being "allowed" to go into labor. My sister replied, "Well, hmm. 5% chance of an umbilical prolapse. Tell me about the risks involved with a c-section." Heh heh. I'm so proud of her

They're going to wait & see if she'll turn on her own as labor starts. We've read if she can at least get to 5 cm dilated her chances of a V-Bac are increased.

If she ends up having a C-Section, at least she'll be able to feel like she did everything she could.
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#6 of 9 Old 08-02-2003, 02:01 PM
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My mom was in labor with my sister and my sister turned head down about an hour before she was delivered. I don't know what type of breech she was to start with, but I hope all goes well with your sister. I agree, there's no reason to schedule so early. At least wait until the due date comes and goes to start talking about c-sec.

Michelle -mom to Katlyn 4/00 , Jake 3/02, and Seth 5/04
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#7 of 9 Old 08-03-2003, 10:41 AM
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Here is another link for you.
He discusses a few studies on vaginal vs. c/s deliveries for breech babies. He also describes the standard vaginal breech delivery. It is written from a rather medical viewpoint.

I had a c/s with my son because he was double footling breech. I was told that he would die if I didn't have one, because the cord could prolapse and that "would be be fatal". I have done a lot of research since then, and I know I would do things differently in the same situation. I would find someone that had experience delivering breech babies, a laymidwife at home if necessary, and I would try a vaginal delivery. The risk of cord prolapse is rather small and the delivery by c/s is essentially the same delivery. They do the same rotations, manipulations, etc to get the baby out of the cut that they would do in a vaginal delivery, and some research has shown no improvement in outcomes for the mother or baby with a c/s. I would also research labor positions that would make a breech delivery easier. Everything I have read about a hospital breech delivery involves having the mother on her back, at least partially. That just doesn't make sense to me, especially when reading how they manipulate the baby to get it out in this position.

There are those that believe that you shouldn't even try turning a breech baby. They believe that the baby has chosen this position for a reason and you should just deliver them that way and trust in the process.

ds George 12/8/00
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#8 of 9 Old 08-03-2003, 01:20 PM
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I've heard of wonderful results from acupuncture and moxy(?)'s a cigar shaped bundle of herbal stuff (like incense) that you burn and hold by your foot after being treated with acupuncture. Sounds REALLY bizarre, but my yoga teacher said that the results have been so good (I want to say 80-something percent) that Western medicine is starting to use it.
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#9 of 9 Old 08-03-2003, 01:34 PM
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My understanding is that babys that are frank breech or legs up are the hardest to turn because the legs by thier haed act as a wedge. Most breech babys are frank possibly because they are the ones who have the most difficulty turning. These are also the easiest to have a vaginal birth with.

Babies that are sitting cross-legged are also called complete breech (you have a mix=up on terms) These are easier to turn and much more likely to do so, however they are tricker to have a vaginal birth.

Your sister needs to find someone who will try a version ASAP. The longer she waits the harder to turn the baby.
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