Could we move the Israeli War threads into Politics? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 01:46 AM
 
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I hope so too.

This wasn't something we wanted to do to be honest.


And it is kind of strange that you and I are posting on this because just a few years ago it was you and I pming one another late one night talking about a Politics forum and how cool that would be and how fun.

This has been an amazing journey with all of you.

I started modding the political forums around 2003 or so and I don't think I can express how much they have meant to me over the years.

This wasn't something that anyone wanted to do. A lot of us care deeply about those forums, too deeply if anything. We haven't really had the manpower to moderate the forum in its current form for several months now.

W&P was closed several years ago due to the sheer volume and now there are two forums instead of just one.

There has been a lot of midnight oil burned trying to keep things going until inauguration and the mods deserve a lot of credit.

We don't have the capabilities to keep the forums going like they are. Before the 100 days we will look at it again. I won't make any promises but we need time to get caught up on other things.

Thanks.
: yeah I remember discussing with you getting politics back. My feeling is that it was fun while it lasted, ok well relatively fun There were some not very fun moments too. I know you guys have done all you could to keep things going and running smooth and evenly.
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#62 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 01:50 AM
 
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I know. I meant closing individual threads permanently by default and not even trying to edit, not closing whole forums to catch up.
We usually do try to clean things up and return them...because members do care about their threads. If we cannot keep something going then well...there isn't much we can do but we do give it a go.

We don't generally just close a bunch of threads instead of working on them.

There is *rarely* an issue with an OP. So...it isn't really fair to not give the OP their thread back if we can.

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#63 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 01:53 AM
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#64 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 02:00 AM
 
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We usually do try to clean things up and return them...because members do care about their threads. If we cannot keep something going then well...there isn't much we can do but we do give it a go.

We don't generally just close a bunch of threads instead of working on them.

There is *rarely* an issue with an OP. So...it isn't really fair to not give the OP their thread back if we can.
I do get that, but ...... I have the feeling most OPs would prefer it to not being able to post their threads at all.
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#65 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 02:07 AM
 
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I do get that, but ...... I have the feeling most OPs would prefer it to not being able to post their threads at all.
This is so.

but like I said, we need to do something different.

One thing we always said in the political/news forums was that peaceful discourse was the goal.

We never really achieved that. Whether it was just member posting ineffective moderation or that we set ourselves up for failure by even attempting it on a board full of so many passionate people. Mothering doesn't attract people for their apathy...

But, regardless of what led us to this point we need a solution.

We can discuss Politics and N&CE all we want but we need to close the door on that chapter. We need to rethink this and rework it and do it right so it works right and people can discuss things peacefully and with vigor.

If it cannot be done then well..it just cannot be done. Mothering isn't going to host an all out debate board. :/

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#66 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 02:19 AM
 
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#67 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 02:37 AM
 
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First of all, I want to thank all the moderators, past and present, yours is the job that is long and hard and never recognized until it is too late. Thank you and I am sorry this is coming in so late.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abimommy View Post
This is so.

but like I said, we need to do something different.

One thing we always said in the political/news forums was that peaceful discourse was the goal.

We never really achieved that. Whether it was just member posting ineffective moderation or that we set ourselves up for failure by even attempting it on a board full of so many passionate people. Mothering doesn't attract people for their apathy...

But, regardless of what led us to this point we need a solution.

We can discuss Politics and N&CE all we want but we need to close the door on that chapter. We need to rethink this and rework it and do it right so it works right and people can discuss things peacefully and with vigor.

If it cannot be done then well..it just cannot be done. Mothering isn't going to host an all out debate board. :/
I know this was a very difficult decision for Mothering, but I do want to share what having the news, current events, and politics board meant to me, as a mother, as part of this community.

Having these boards, even though many times they did not seem harmonious, and moderation was a huge issue, meant I had an open line fo communication with mothers who come from all corners of the world. We have different ideas about parenting, living, religion, life, work, play, but I know each person possesed a passion for their children, for taking care of this world, even if we totally disagreed.

It was a place I could come to learn about people who did not agree with me, but could still have an intelligent discussion and yes, we may never come to an agreement, but at least we could understand where each other was coming from.

I knew I could come here for analysis, not name calling. I knew I could come here for compassion, for empathy, for people who actually put thought into everything they do.

I knew I could come here and topics would actually be discussed, not just rehashed verbatim, that people would argue their points and present evidence and not just sling mud.

Ordinary people change the world. Ordinary people on Mothering are changing the world today. Now. We are the future and politics is intergral to that future. The personal is political, always has been, always will. Closing the forum isn't going to make that go away. It may relieve a huge moderation burden, but the price Mothering will pay, I am afraid we will be asking, was it really worth it. It's more than just members leaving. It's closing down a huge aspect of our lives as mothers, and you cannot get that energy back that will be lost with the closing of the forums.

Most of us ended up at Mothering here because of politics. Politics have a direct impact on how we give birth to our babies, whether we have the support to breastfeed, how we feed our families, the jobs we have access to, our health, our food systems, access to organics, toys for our children, how we clothe our families, the environment we live in, the banks we put our money in, were we live Many of us who come to find Mothering, stay here because this is an open community were you can discuss things that you can't anywhere else.

If ever there were a time where politics would seem to be so obviously part of our lives, now is that time. If ever there were a time were political communications were opening up within our government here in the U.S., now is that time. If ever there were a time were we were so clearly part of the answer to solving our problems as a world, now is that time.

Real change, for the betterment of humanity has always come from ordinary people sorting out really difficult problems.

I understand this plea may be in vain, but I think it's important for Mothering to know how very important those forums were to me as a mother who cherishes this community.
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#68 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 02:45 AM
 
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I am pretty bummed. I learned so much from the moms who had differing opinions of mine. I welcomed it so much.

I am kind of stunned right now.


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#69 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 02:47 AM
 
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First of all, I want to thank all the moderators, past and present, yours is the job that is long and hard and never recognized until it is too late. Thank you and I am sorry this is coming in so late.

I know this was a very difficult decision for Mothering, but I do want to share what having the news, current events, and politics board meant to me, as a mother, as part of this community.

Having these boards, even though many times they did not seem harmonious, and moderation was a huge issue, meant I had an open line fo communication with mothers who come from all corners of the world. We have different ideas about parenting, living, religion, life, work, play, but I know each person possesed a passion for their children, for taking care of this world, even if we totally disagreed.

It was a place I could come to learn about people who did not agree with me, but could still have an intelligent discussion and yes, we may never come to an agreement, but at least we could understand where each other was coming from.

I knew I could come here for analysis, not name calling. I knew I could come here for compassion, for empathy, for people who actually put thought into everything they do.

I knew I could come here and topics would actually be discussed, not just rehashed verbatim, that people would argue their points and present evidence and not just sling mud.

Ordinary people change the world. Ordinary people on Mothering are changing the world today. Now. We are the future and politics is intergral to that future. The personal is political, always has been, always will. Closing the forum isn't going to make that go away. It may relieve a huge moderation burden, but the price Mothering will pay, I am afraid we will be asking, was it really worth it. It's more than just members leaving. It's closing down a huge aspect of our lives as mothers, and you cannot get that energy back that will be lost with the closing of the forums.

Most of us ended up at Mothering here because of politics. Politics have a direct impact on how we give birth to our babies, whether we have the support to breastfeed, how we feed our families, the jobs we have access to, our health, our food systems, access to organics, toys for our children, how we clothe our families, the environment we live in, the banks we put our money in, were we live Many of us who come to find Mothering, stay here because this is an open community were you can discuss things that you can't anywhere else.

If ever there were a time where politics would seem to be so obviously part of our lives, now is that time. If ever there were a time were political communications were opening up within our government here in the U.S., now is that time. If ever there were a time were we were so clearly part of the answer to solving our problems as a world, now is that time.

Real change, for the betterment of humanity has always come from ordinary people sorting out really difficult problems.

I understand this plea may be in vain, but I think it's important for Mothering to know how very important those forums were to me as a mother who cherishes this community.
Thank you SM I really appreciate your opinion and your kind words.

It isn't that we want to brush this under a rug. We don't. This isn't necessarily a permanent solution either.

After the 2004 election W&P was shut down and N&CE opened. Now that the 2008 election is over those are shut down and now...it is time for a change but we need time to implement that.

There is a lot going on politically and I think we are all really excited, some of us for the first time in a long time and we do want to discuss that. But we need to change our strategy so we can do that more effectively and with more compassion.

I don't know the answer, if I did it would have started out that way. But if people do have ideas and plans they can pm one of us and we'll look into it.

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#70 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 03:33 AM
 
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I am pretty bummed. I learned so much from the moms who had differing opinions of mine. I welcomed it so much.

I am kind of stunned right now.

ditto!!!

Here's me I married then we had dd15 , dd11 , ds10 , and then and now we and I blog!
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#71 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 05:15 AM
 
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#72 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 05:19 AM
 
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I am pretty bummed. I learned so much from the moms who had differing opinions of mine. I welcomed it so much.

I am kind of stunned right now.


Me too, and i would really like a heads up as well if some of the members here that frequented the N&CE forum decide to discuss elsewhere.

As others have said, I learned and cared so much more about current events based on our conversations rather than just reading the same media sources with one side and scaled down into neat columns and left alone the next day.

I will miss all your insight terribly. :
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#73 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 07:45 AM
 
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I am pretty bummed. I learned so much from the moms who had differing opinions of mine. I welcomed it so much.

I am kind of stunned right now.

Me too.

I was actually so happy about the level of discussion in News & Current Events and Politics. It was mostly polite, people differed in their opinions but usually did not troll or fight or argue (I've seen much, much worse in other places). Those boards were important to me, both because they allowed me to discuss current matters with mama-oriented people from all over the world and also because they gave me so much information.

And now that Obama's just started his presidency.. I was so looking forward to discussing the changes we see happen!

I am sad and stunned.

Editing to add that I do thank the moderators for all their hard work.
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#74 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 08:15 AM
 
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i'm gobsmacked. i feel like an amazing place to learn, listen & debate has been shut down to me. i understand it was hard for the moderators though & thank them for their work... hopefully a new solution will be found...?
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#75 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 09:38 AM
 
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Me too.

I was actually so happy about the level of discussion in News & Current Events and Politics. It was mostly polite, people differed in their opinions but usually did not troll or fight or argue (I've seen much, much worse in other places). Those boards were important to me, both because they allowed me to discuss current matters with mama-oriented people from all over the world and also because they gave me so much information.

And now that Obama's just started his presidency.. I was so looking forward to discussing the changes we see happen!

I am sad and stunned.

Editing to add that I do thank the moderators for all their hard work.
Totally Gutted.
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#76 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 10:29 AM
 
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First off, huge & amazing thanks to all moderators past and present. I really can't fathom the incredible amount of work that goes into maintaining forums like N&CE/Politics.

Having said that, I'm also completely blown away by this. :

I've learned so, so, so much here and gained such deeper understanding on many issues. Like a pp stated, I don't really have a circle IRL who enjoys discussing these things.

Wowser.

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#77 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 10:50 AM
 
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Thank you Mods for all you have done.

I am very sad about this. If anyone knows of another board that posts politics and news, please let me know in a PM.


Anne, Mama to Conner 2/27/04 blahblah.gif  Gabrielle 2/6/06 W/LMC-TCS, Neurogenic Bladder, AFO & KAFO wearer, Neurogenic Bowel energy.gif & Delaney 5/12/08 mischievous.gif &  Beethoven cat.gif& Gizmo cat.gif

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#78 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 11:21 AM
 
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First off, huge & amazing thanks to all moderators past and present. I really can't fathom the incredible amount of work that goes into maintaining forums like N&CE/Politics.

Having said that, I'm also completely blown away by this. :

I've learned so, so, so much here and gained such deeper understanding on many issues. Like a pp stated, I don't really have a circle IRL who enjoys discussing these things.

Wowser.
:

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#79 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you Mods for having this forum up for so long and putting so much work into it.

Also, thank you for closing this forum down when it stopped working. In its current form, with the number of people available to work on it- it was causing more disharmony than anything else.

So the thought now is to open a similar forum in about 3 months, with some new parameters in place to keep things from getting so heated? And you DON'T want suggestions for those new parameters in this thead, but only in PM?

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18, and Jack, 12
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#80 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 11:28 AM
 
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...
One thing we always said in the political/news forums was that peaceful discourse was the goal.

We never really achieved that. Whether it was just member posting ineffective moderation or that we set ourselves up for failure by even attempting it on a board full of so many passionate people. Mothering doesn't attract people for their apathy...
...
Abimommy,
This a classic chicken or egg question. When you have a strong majority then there are few UAVs. Or at least it seems that way because there is little disagreement among the members and/or because the few UAVs against non members are under-reported. Under those circumstances, enforcing the MDC UA would require a more proactive Mod presence, one which isn't dependent upon member reporting. And let's face it, it really doesn't seem like an efficient allocation of resources to put more Mods on a board where eveyone generally agrees with each other.

Until, of course, the few voices of dissent materialize. Since in the absence of strong Moderating to that point, the "group think" is more firmly entrenched and dissent is less and less acceptable. So it becomes a vicious circle.

On the Politics board in particular there is (was ) a very obvious majority with a well developed set of unofficial guidelines. At best this type of dynamic creates something akin to an echo chamber or a mutual admiration / agreement society. Which isn't conducive to a meaningful exchange of ideas.

So while I am sad, I realize that closing N&CE and Politics merely acknowledges the reality that --for better or for worse-- people feel passionately enough that they are only going to restrain themselves to a certain point. The only other option is more proactive Moderating that doesn't rely so heavily on member reporting. Because, after all, it's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.

~Cath
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#81 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 12:07 PM
 
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I was an occasional poster to the news/politics forums, with periods of more activity than others.

I understand some of the logistics that went into this decision - it's a lot of work to moderate, we want to keep it civil, etc etc.

However, I'm concerned about the wider message that it sends.

First, there's the notion that when discussion gets heated, we should stop making the effort. Not my favourite view, that, time and hassle of continued efforts aside.

Second, there's the idea that, because it's a "mothering" board, politics are dispensible. If there's news to be discussed, let it be about cloth diapers or breastfeeding only. That saddens me and concerns me.

One thing I like about these boards is the idea that being a parent encompasses more than an obsession with potty training and when to introduce solids, that sharing experiences on those issues can take place side by side with students (who happen to be parents) discussing study techniques, readers (who happen to be parents) discussing literature, spouses (who happen to be parents) discussing their relationships, and citizens (who happen to be parents) discussing the world around them. I like the idea of being parents and citizens of the world.
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#82 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 12:19 PM
 
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I was so saddened to see this, and I understand how difficult a decision this was.

I agree with the PPs that politics is so important, especially now, to us as mothers and I hope that Mothering can find a way to host dicussions about these topics in the future.

Thanks to the mods for their work on the forum!
Karen

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Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. ~ Buddha

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#83 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 12:53 PM
 
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I was an occasional poster to the news/politics forums, with periods of more activity than others.

I understand some of the logistics that went into this decision - it's a lot of work to moderate, we want to keep it civil, etc etc.

However, I'm concerned about the wider message that it sends.

First, there's the notion that when discussion gets heated, we should stop making the effort. Not my favourite view, that, time and hassle of continued efforts aside.

Second, there's the idea that, because it's a "mothering" board, politics are dispensible. If there's news to be discussed, let it be about cloth diapers or breastfeeding only. That saddens me and concerns me.

One thing I like about these boards is the idea that being a parent encompasses more than an obsession with potty training and when to introduce solids, that sharing experiences on those issues can take place side by side with students (who happen to be parents) discussing study techniques, readers (who happen to be parents) discussing literature, spouses (who happen to be parents) discussing their relationships, and citizens (who happen to be parents) discussing the world around them. I like the idea of being parents and citizens of the world.
Exactly how I feel. I am very saddened by this. Yes we have dissenting opinions, yes we can get on each others nerves. That is life. But even the person I find most annoying in a politics debate could be a super helpful mom on another section or I could help someone. We can't shelter ourselves from dissenting opinions.

Having said that, I appreciate all the hard work in the moderation of the forum, well done!
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#84 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 12:54 PM
 
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Wow...I have to admit I'm also feeling a bit lost now. I've learned and grown so much because of my participation on those two forums (N&CE is actually my browser's home page).
I appreciate the hard work the moderators had to do to keep the discussions going, but I sure am going to miss those forums. I want to thank SM and the other posters here who have summed up my feelings on this so well.
If there is a place to connect with other posters here to continue these dialogs, I'd love a PM, and I hope to see the discussions back in the future.

Vegan, mom to : Joe and Josh ::
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#85 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 01:03 PM
 
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I was an occasional poster to the news/politics forums, with periods of more activity than others.

I understand some of the logistics that went into this decision - it's a lot of work to moderate, we want to keep it civil, etc etc.

However, I'm concerned about the wider message that it sends.

First, there's the notion that when discussion gets heated, we should stop making the effort. Not my favourite view, that, time and hassle of continued efforts aside.

Second, there's the idea that, because it's a "mothering" board, politics are dispensible. If there's news to be discussed, let it be about cloth diapers or breastfeeding only. That saddens me and concerns me.

One thing I like about these boards is the idea that being a parent encompasses more than an obsession with potty training and when to introduce solids, that sharing experiences on those issues can take place side by side with students (who happen to be parents) discussing study techniques, readers (who happen to be parents) discussing literature, spouses (who happen to be parents) discussing their relationships, and citizens (who happen to be parents) discussing the world around them. I like the idea of being parents and citizens of the world.
:

Thank you for all work that this section required.

I am sad also. I would frequently come to this section when there was an issue I didnt understand well. We have so many well informed, intelligent people here.....the conversations were always stimulating.
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#86 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 01:03 PM
 
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Reading the news this morning, I was in tears. Tears of joy and relief. Tears for me. Tears for my country. But, most especially, tears for my children.

I've spent the past many years grieving. Many others in the news forums grieved with me. They shared my feelings of pain, anger, and hopelessness. Now, at this time, those feelings are receding. Feelings of hope and healing are renewed. But, now I can't share the news and those feelings with the very people who have accompanied me on this journey thus far.

The people on the news forums ARE my tribe. We not only share many parenting philosophies, but also the knowlege that the ongoings of our world affect our children. We share an engagement and an investment in our nations and our planet that many other parents don't. Many AP parents I interact with IRL aren't interested in the news. I can't discuss and debate current events with them if they're not making an effort to be informed. So, I come here. I parent the way that I parent because of my politics. And I like to share, discuss, and debate the issues of the day with others who also consider their parenting and politics to be related.

You can find me on Facebook. PM for info.
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#87 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 01:22 PM
 
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Here's a crazy idea. How about having the politics and news forum be completely unmoderated? Everyone who enters would have to agree that they will behave as adults and that if their feelings get hurt or they get offended, they have to deal with it on their own. No whining!

We could still have the membership requirements so that only people who have shown themselves to be decent MDC citizens would be allowed to post there ...
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#88 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 01:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nonconformnmom View Post
Here's a crazy idea. How about having the politics and news forum be completely unmoderated? Everyone who enters would have to agree that they will behave as adults and that if their feelings get hurt or they get offended, they have to deal with it on their own. No whining!


I would love to see the forum return.

and wouldn't the gentle discipline/natural consequence of saying something hurtful be that people didn't like or respond to you? Not that you'd get your hand slapped by someone with more power?
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#89 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 01:31 PM
 
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I would expect heavy use of the ignore feature; and that can be a good thing.
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#90 of 240 Old 01-22-2009, 01:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nonconformnmom View Post
I would expect heavy use of the ignore feature; and that can be a good thing.
I'm a big supporter of the ignore feature.

You can find me on Facebook. PM for info.
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