Could we move the Israeli War threads into Politics? - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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Old 01-22-2009, 06:54 PM
 
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When making the decision to close the forums we had to look at the full picture. Increasing our moderation in the forum is certainly something that we considered. But please understand that our moderators work very closely as a team and bringing on a moderator is much like filling a job position. We need to find members that fit certain criteria and have the time and ability to moderate using our guidelines. New moderators often start as ambassadors. Once they become a moderator, they have to go through training and then we usually start them out on smaller forums until they get a feel for how we do things and feel confident to branch on to more challenging forums. Even then, they are often teamed up with more seasoned moderators.

Unfortunately, there was not a simple 'fix' to the problems. We did look at this from many angles and will continue to do so.

I would like to say that I'm very proud of our moderators. They work very hard and pour their hearts into their forums.
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Old 01-22-2009, 06:59 PM
 
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Wanted to say thanks to the mods for taking on N&CE and Politics while it lasted! I rarely posted in those forums, but often read there.

So what you are talking about is shutting down temporarily and trying to find a way to make it work in some other form? Right?

Or is it a permanent shut-down?

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Old 01-22-2009, 07:02 PM
 
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Wanted to say thanks to the mods for taking on N&CE and Politics while it lasted! I rarely posted in those forums, but often read there.

So what you are talking about is shutting down temporarily and trying to find a way to make it work in some other form? Right?

Or is it a permanent shut-down?
We don't know for sure yet.

`

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Old 01-22-2009, 07:03 PM
 
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At this point it is permanent. However, we will keep an open mind and are willing to look into it again in the future.
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:05 PM
 
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I am the only mod in N&CE right now. I had admins in there helping me. Which of course, means they can't do their actual job. And even when there were three mods in there, we were often overwhelmed.
Right.

Politics was great because Bethany and I both had a good handle on it together, our time on there was balanced out, and the guidelines, while strict, made for more careful, conscious discourse. Having good teamwork/partnership and member support really made all the difference for us in there.

However, anyone having to go N&CE alone or even together under the stress it was causing sounds really difficult and frustrating for everyone involved.

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Old 01-22-2009, 07:07 PM
 
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There are enough moderators right now...it is burnout that is an issue. We can't keep throwing people in there only to have them cycle out in a few weeks because they are burnt out. So, volunteers aren't the problem. The fact that the forum is very hard to mod for long periods of time is the issue.

The forum needs reworking. And maybe rotating mods through it would be one way to deal with the high volume. But the forum needs some attention before we just continue to throw people at it and hope for the best, you know?

...
Adina,
At the risk of belaboring my earlier point, given the intensity level and the sheer number in the "majority" on the Politics board --and the firmly entrenched group think-- it's pretty obvious that MDC could have used more Mods in N&CE/P. That would have allowed the Mods to be more proactive, rather than reactive, which left the small handful of regular posters in the minority to fend for themselves.

I realize the Mods are volunteers but at some level this has to be a business decision, not in terms of salary for the Mods and Admins themselves, but perhaps in terms of the time, energy, and effort it would take to bring on new Mods, train them, and make any necessary administrative changes or technical changes (e.g.: giving more people access and authority). Or maybe in terms of investing, one way or the other, in tweaking what is required when the Mods were covering N&CE/P instead of the less draining boards, and then overseeing those changes.

That certainly is MDC's prerogative. But it is inacurrate to say there are enough Mods. That's kind of like saying there are enough nurses overall in a facility that is woefully understaffed on a particularly labor intensive floor.

~Cath
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:17 PM
 
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While I understand the thought, no number of moderators can really change what is perceived as a majority within a message board forum. We can't tip the scales of thread participant numbers. We can't make members represent themselves. Members have to choose to post. Only then we can moderate what we are given to work with. We can't moderate what isn't posted. We also can't moderate based on what someone *might* think or what *might* happen. We have to take things as they come.



To clarify -- I'm speaking only of moderators here, not administrators. Our roles are different from theirs, and I can't speak for them.

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Old 01-22-2009, 07:20 PM
 
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We don't know for sure yet.

`
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At this point it is permanent. However, we will keep an open mind and are willing to look into it again in the future.
Thanks for clarifying.

Well, sort of clarifying.

You know...if everyone could bring themselves to be a bit more mature ... ask themselves "What would Mr. Rogers do?"...it might be possible to have spirited, but civil discussions.

I've seen posters who do this very well. They disagree, but are not mean or nasty about it and that is when it becomes educational. I have still learned something. I have learned that not everyone sees things the way I do, that there are other viewpoints, perspectives and experiences out there in the big, wide world. It makes me think. It makes me test what I believe.

When it gets down to a let's get in the mud and sling it and call names, well, I tend to not hear the message because it's drowned in all the pettiness.

Oh, could people post in the thread titles in N&CE ( if it comes back) a vague description and "disturbing?" Maybe that would help people decide whether or not they want to click on the link.

:

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Old 01-22-2009, 08:07 PM
 
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I have a suggestion that may or may not have been already brought up. What if the access to N&CE is restircted to members with over 1000 posts and who have had limited "demerits" (requests to remove negative comments)?

I think by restricting it to our members who have been on MDC for a long time, we can keep things on a smaller scale with less of a chance for trolls, new members who may not be too familiar with the UA, etc?

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Old 01-22-2009, 08:14 PM
 
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Oh, could people post in the thread titles in N&CE ( if it comes back) a vague description and "disturbing?" Maybe that would help people decide whether or not they want to click on the link.

:
We have had a sticky requesting people tag their threads in news with disturbing or graphic since 2006
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Old 01-22-2009, 08:16 PM
 
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I have a suggestion that may or may not have been already brought up. What if the access to N&CE is restircted to members with over 1000 posts and who have had limited "demerits" (requests to remove negative comments)?

I think by restricting it to our members who have been on MDC for a long time, we can keep things on a smaller scale with less of a chance for trolls, new members who may not be too familiar with the UA, etc?
Since "demerits" are accumulative over the years.. some of us with high post counts would still be banned.
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Old 01-22-2009, 08:19 PM
 
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Since "demerits" are accumulative over the years.. some of us with high post counts would still be banned.

and it's all so subjective anyhow. I see people breaking the ua all the time, but unless someone wants to tattle on them, they won't get a demerit.
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Old 01-22-2009, 08:19 PM
 
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Since "demerits" are accumulative over the years.. some of us with high post counts would still be banned.
I didn't think of that....but maybe people with say over 2000 posts would be immune from the demerits...?

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Old 01-22-2009, 08:28 PM
 
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We have had a sticky requesting people tag their threads in news with disturbing or graphic since 2006
Thanks, Arduinna. I had no idea.

I've never started a thread in there, so never noticed the sticky.

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Old 01-22-2009, 08:28 PM
 
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Adina,
At the risk of belaboring my earlier point, given the intensity level and the sheer number in the "majority" on the Politics board --and the firmly entrenched group think-- it's pretty obvious that MDC could have used more Mods in N&CE/P. That would have allowed the Mods to be more proactive, rather than reactive, which left the small handful of regular posters in the minority to fend for themselves.


~Cath
And this is one of the issues. Because many of us held similar perspectives--although often for very different reasons--it was assumed and asserted often that we were not thinking for ourselves. Even when we explained our individual views and clarified our very individual reasons for those views, the assertion continued. That kind of hostility is dismissive and can destroy real debate. The implication behind it is clear. I do hold very strong opinions, but they are mine, not some imagined group's.

Also, while many have claimed that the forum had a liberal bias, others felt it leaned to the far right. I think that was often about perspective and perhaps the sometimes unfortunate timing of decisions that affected the board.
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Old 01-22-2009, 08:29 PM
 
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I didn't think of that....but maybe people with say over 2000 posts would be immune from the demerits...?
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Old 01-22-2009, 08:32 PM
 
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And this is one of the issues. Because many of us held similar perspectives--although often for very different reasons--it was assumed and asserted often that we were not thinking for ourselves. Even when we explained our individual views and clarified our very individual reasons for those views, the assertion continued. That kind of hostility is dismissive and can destroy real debate. The implication behind it is clear. I do hold very strong opinions, but they are mine, not some imagined group's.

Also, while many have claimed that the forum had a liberal bias, others felt it leaned to the far right. I think that was often about perspective and perhaps the sometimes unfortunate timing of decisions that affected the board.
:

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Old 01-22-2009, 08:44 PM
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At the risk of belaboring my earlier point, given the intensity level and the sheer number in the "majority" on the Politics board --and the firmly entrenched group think-- it's pretty obvious that MDC could have used more Mods in N&CE/P. That would have allowed the Mods to be more proactive, rather than reactive, which left the small handful of regular posters in the minority to fend for themselves.

I realize the Mods are volunteers but at some level this has to be a business decision, not in terms of salary for the Mods and Admins themselves, but perhaps in terms of the time, energy, and effort it would take to bring on new Mods, train them, and make any necessary administrative changes or technical changes (e.g.: giving more people access and authority). Or maybe in terms of investing, one way or the other, in tweaking what is required when the Mods were covering N&CE/P instead of the less draining boards, and then overseeing those changes.

That certainly is MDC's prerogative. But it is inacurrate to say there are enough Mods. That's kind of like saying there are enough nurses overall in a facility that is woefully understaffed on a particularly labor intensive floor.
Again, the problem is with the way the forum is conducted. More mods would have created different issues, not calm peaceful solutions. For every mod that is added that is one more person that must be communicated with prior to doing things, lest we all manage to PM the same person at the same time. There is a learning curve here, and just adding people to the forum isn't going to clear it all up. We have tried that before.

No one can change the balance of who posts in the forums, other than the posters themselves. Our job is not to recruit even amounts of people from both sides of every issue to have a conversation. The bottom line is that if people are posting within the UA, they are free to post, and people are free to refute, respond and discuss right back.

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Old 01-22-2009, 09:00 PM
 
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1) I really appreciate the hard work the moderators put in to running the MDC boards. You ladies are amazing and a big part of what makes it an exceptionally nice place to be, learn, discuss, share, learn, give and receive help, give and receive support, learn and just chill.

2) I'm disappointed that the Politics forum has been removed.

3) I hope a solution is discovered that fascilitates the return of the Politics and the N&CE forums.

4) I really appreciate the hard work the moderators put into running the boards!

Someone moved my effing cheese.
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:04 PM
 
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[QUOTE=journeymom;13047239]1) I really appreciate the hard work the moderators put in to running the MDC boards. You ladies are amazing and a big part of what makes it an exceptionally nice place to be, learn, discuss, share, learn, give and receive help, give and receive support, learn and just chill.
[quote]

The mods do work hard. YAY Mods!

Quote:
2) I'm disappointed that the Politics forum has been removed.
Us too.

Quote:
3) I hope a solution is discovered that fascilitates the return of the Politics and the N&CE forums.
They are not coming back as is, hopefully there is a solution that will make people happy.

Quote:

4) I really appreciate the hard work the moderators put into running the boards!
Yay mods!

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Old 01-22-2009, 09:56 PM
 
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Maybe a crazy idea-dunno but-

Could we keep NCE a place to post story links? I know I read NCE for the news and ignore the comments.

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Old 01-22-2009, 09:58 PM
 
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Maybe a crazy idea-dunno but-

Could we keep NCE a place to post story links? I know I read NCE for the news and ignore the comments.
Do you mean only take new threads and not posts?

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Old 01-22-2009, 10:00 PM
 
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No one can change the balance of who posts in the forums, other than the posters themselves. Our job is not to recruit even amounts of people from both sides of every issue to have a conversation. The bottom line is that if people are posting within the UA, they are free to post, and people are free to refute, respond and discuss right back.
Adina you made a great point. When we ask someone to be a moderator it's because we feel they can be moderate when reviewing their forums. We don't ask what their political opinions or religious backgrounds is because it does not matter. What matters is that they can moderate their forums according to the UA and forum guidelines. I have spent a lot of time working with our Politics and N&CE moderators and I believe they work very hard to be even handed. If they question themselves or are unsure, they bring the issue to their co-moderators and the administrators so we can all review it.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:01 PM
 
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A big thanks to the mods and admin who have helped to oversee the entanglement of N&CE or Politics. As someone who just started getting used to this place, I will miss those forums.

I have moderated a controversial board from the 1995 to 2006 with over 200,000 members and 30,000 active members. I know first hand how hard it can be to make sure people keep up with the UA. I know how hard it is for a member to keep up with them too, especially if one is a member of many boards with different rules, like myself.

I certainly can understand how overwhelming it must of been to have only one mod in the N&CE forum during heated worldly issues like Gaza/Israel.

Since an unmoderated board isn't a possibility, then maybe a separate forum in which the UA is a little different can be an option? Something that has clear cut wording that removes the magazine from the opinions of the board? Much like many of the newspapers and TV stations do now on their websites.

Again, a hearty handshake and round of applause for the mods and admin that have worked hard on keeping a fine board like this going. Kudos to you.

in peace,
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:21 PM
 
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What about having it set up like TAO where threads have to be approved before being posted? And have it set up that the mods that approve the threads are the ones that moderate them?
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:27 PM
 
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What about having it set up like TAO where threads have to be approved before being posted? And have it set up that the mods that approve the threads are the ones that moderate them?
Rarely is it that the OPs are an issue. Usually something occurs in the thread.

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Old 01-22-2009, 11:50 PM
 
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Perhaps people who are interested in continuing news and political discussion with MDC members could start their own forum. It's what the LOA folks did when their needs outgrew MDC and it's worked beautifully. Maybe someone should just spearhead the new forum, with the rules they want in place, and run from there. PM the folks on this thread who seem to be interested and let the word spread.

I don't think MDC was meant to be all things to all people, and honestly when I would see the NC&E posts in new threads about "Mom drowns baby in well after putting it in the microwave **may be disturbing**" I wondered why such sensational things had to be discussed over and over. It started to look like a tabloid magazine cover.
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:29 AM
 
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I don't think MDC was meant to be all things to all people, and honestly when I would see the NC&E posts in new threads about "Mom drowns baby in well after putting it in the microwave **may be disturbing**" I wondered why such sensational things had to be discussed over and over. It started to look like a tabloid magazine cover.

It was those threads that were causing the issues.

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Old 01-23-2009, 01:19 AM
 
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Perhaps people who are interested in continuing news and political discussion with MDC members could start their own forum. It's what the LOA folks did when their needs outgrew MDC and it's worked beautifully. Maybe someone should just spearhead the new forum, with the rules they want in place, and run from there. PM the folks on this thread who seem to be interested and let the word spread.

I don't think MDC was meant to be all things to all people, and honestly when I would see the NC&E posts in new threads about "Mom drowns baby in well after putting it in the microwave **may be disturbing**" I wondered why such sensational things had to be discussed over and over. It started to look like a tabloid magazine cover.
Those threads always struck me as rubber neckers at a freeway accident.
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:31 AM
 
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and it's all so subjective anyhow. I see people breaking the ua all the time, but unless someone wants to tattle on them, they won't get a demerit.
Exactly.
~Cath
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