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#1 of 86 Old 06-14-2011, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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There sure is some weirdness going on here at MDC these days. How I see it- it was this AP "crunchy" board. Some people who don't agree with some of those types of things felt that this board was too rigid. And in general some people feel that some AP parents are too critical. So then people started expressing things that are not AP like for lack of better term. And felt liberated in doing so. But, now there are a whole lot of people on MDC who have different views on things than the original core theory of this forum. And now those things are infiltrating into the whole. But I think it feels unsettling. I understand why some people think people are too rigid. But this has moved beyond that.   I mean- since the whole recent upheavel I now regularly see threads with long discussions involving spanking (such as- I spanked but what should I have done- which to me ( I haven't read that thread just the title) is a very uncomfortable thing to read about. Or threads about locking a toddler in her room at night. Or threads by people acting violently to theri children in some way (at least in the way I perceive it) and personally it makes me sad! I miss the moderation that happened to keep those types of things out. I don't have some conclusive point here. I understand how some peop[le want this to be a more inclusive and less exclusive type of forum. I do plenty of non perfect or whatever things, but I ultimately strive to be as gentle and loving of a parent as I can be, that is all. I mess up and  make mistakes and test limits of where my comfort lies. But I am just a little sad about a certain sense of gentleness and respect for certain peaceful values that I used to find on MDC. Now I feel like people are so concerned with letting everyone have a free voice and their own opionions that there is not as strong of a place here to promote and discuss some of the original core values that brought htis forum together. There are so very many new posters- I have noticed- people with 1,2,3, or 4 posts- writing about things that are sometimes uncomfortable to me- as I mentionmed examples above. And- I don't know. There is somehow not such a coherent welcoming community on here right now as I used to find. I personally would like the old moderating system to return. I felt safer in that type of forum.

 
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#2 of 86 Old 06-14-2011, 10:07 PM
 
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I don't really know what's going on, either, except changes around here (big ones) seem to happen every couple of years.  I don't make time to sit around and visit a lot of forums on MDC these days, but I like the lesser moderation stance.  I feel that less moderation is a good thing, in general.  However, if there are lots of threads being started that are in support of anti-NFL ideals (and I don't know that there are...I'm just responding to the OP), then of course those need to be moderated out, IMO. 

 

But, if people are simply being honest about their behaviors and asking for help in improving them, help that is NFL-friendly, I won't knock that.  That's what sites like this are for...to help people. 

 

If that hurts your heart (and I understand how it would) to read, then I'm not sure what to suggest to help you deal with that but I don't think more moderation would be the answer. 

 

 


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#3 of 86 Old 06-14-2011, 10:12 PM
 
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The thing is, there are more members who disliked the heavy moderation than those who miss it.  We could take a poll, but I am positive this is true.  It's impossible to please everyone, and while the recent changes like format and advertising have not been well received by many, the newfound freedom of not getting in trouble for a difference of opinion has been a positive change, overall.  It just might take a little while to get the kinks out, so to speak, b/c we are all used to a different atmosphere. 


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#4 of 86 Old 06-14-2011, 10:37 PM
 
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To be fair, though, the OP's complaint is the same kind of complaint that "led to" the heavy moderation in the first place.  So, the way I see it: they tried the heavy moderation solution and it didn't work. 

 

It reminds me of the joke: I childproofed the house, but they keep getting in!

 

NFL seems to be a spectrum and different people fall in different places on that spectrum.  There's room for all of us here.  I should hope. 

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#5 of 86 Old 06-14-2011, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife View Post

The thing is, there are more members who disliked the heavy moderation than those who miss it.  We could take a poll, but I am positive this is true.  It's impossible to please everyone, and while the recent changes like format and advertising have not been well received by many, the newfound freedom of not getting in trouble for a difference of opinion has been a positive change, overall.  It just might take a little while to get the kinks out, so to speak, b/c we are all used to a different atmosphere. 


Should we take a poll? And if the majority say they woud like us to go back to the heavy moderation, should we?

 


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#6 of 86 Old 06-14-2011, 10:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post




Should we take a poll? And if the majority say they woud like us to go back to the heavy moderation, should we?

 


Sure, why not? :)

 


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#7 of 86 Old 06-14-2011, 10:56 PM
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Sure. Why not indeed. smile.gif

 

 I'll post it in Questions and Suggestions. 


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#8 of 86 Old 06-14-2011, 11:21 PM
 
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Thanks for setting that up, Cynthia. Seems fair enough.  I put my vote in. orngbiggrin.gif


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#9 of 86 Old 06-15-2011, 06:33 AM
 
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(eyboard broen sorry!)  [eye] used to complan about old heavy moderaton.  Now [eye] mss t.  Admt [eye] totally deserved almost all ponts receved under old system.  Moderaton to preserve ntellgent tone of cmmunty and unque statement of purpose s mportant and we need more moderaton.  Now there's way too much "Well [eye] guess [eye] am not as ____ as some people here but ____ wors for my famly..."  [eye]MO tae that nonsense elsewhere.  MDC cannot be everythng to everyone.  As they say "eep MDC werd."  Too lttle moderaton allows people to be mmature.

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#10 of 86 Old 06-15-2011, 07:08 AM
 
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I think there will be some discomfort as things change.  For people who are rigidly and dogmatically AP to the point of 'You Have To Do It This Way!' I am sure it will be uncomfortable to hear people voicing that you an certainly have an AP parenting approach while choosing to do some things differently. And, if it turns out that the majority of people really are that dogmatic about it, I suppose the moderation  to a high degree will be necessary so they can have a safe haven.  I will look forwardto the poll outcome.

 

 

One of the threads referenced by the OP- the one about locking a toddler in a room- was not at all about locking a child in a room to keep her out of the way or for the convenience of the parent.  It was about securing a door so the child was safe while the family slept.   It may not fit for your family, but there is nothing abusive about making that choice. 

 

AP isn't all or nothing, and I think it is important to foster discussion of how parents can raise their kids, foster attachment, and still meet the needs of the family as a whole.  

 

The thread of 'confessions' was a clear glimpse into the reality that one size doesn't fit all. It also gave voice to folks who have apparently felt that they needed to live in the shadows of MDC because they were afraid they would be criticized for being themselves completely.   There is absolutely nothing wrong with a parent saying, "I try my best, but sometimes we do xyz." As long as xyz is not abusive, why is it necessarily wrong?  Do we really want to foster an environment where a parent admitting that they let their kids watch tv so they can make dinner is tantamount to an admission of child abuse? I don't understand the desire to make AP some shining pinnacle that feels unattainable by all but a few who are lucky enough to have the time and money to do it "right"?

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#11 of 86 Old 06-15-2011, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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yeah- I am totally not a rigid perfect AP parent what so ever! I mean, I actually enjoyed that other thread mostly- it gave me comfort to hear of some things that people do and their kids are still fine! I don't honestly know what I want out  of this idea I am posting here- just trying to sort through some of the changes and how it feels. I agree that discussion is good and different opinions are good. sorry to be vague- I guess I am just un clear about my stance and I just wanted to bring up some discussion on how things have changed and how it some how makes me uncomfortable.

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#12 of 86 Old 06-15-2011, 07:33 AM
 
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Hi all,

I think this is a great conversation for the whole community to have, so since TAO is restricted to 50 posts/60 days, I'm moving this to Q&S where everyone, no matter the post count, can give input, share concerns, etc.

(eta - I gave it a permanent redirect so it will always be visible & clickable in TAO too!)

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#13 of 86 Old 06-15-2011, 09:08 AM
 
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I don't hear a lot of "Yay spanking!  Go go CIO!" voices. at MDC in all this, even now.


I DO hear a lot of pushback against the idea that there is a set checklist of parenting behaviors that are required to be a "Good MDC Mama." A checklist that goes far beyond the idea of being responsive to your baby's needs, and gets down to nitpicking about definitions.  Heck, even on the confessions thread, people are still apologizing for NOT doing things that are by no means necessary to be either attached or natural.    In fact, there are a number of practices held up as ideals that all MDC mothers should be striving for that really don't have a lot of evidence for being very natural, yet I see people every day starting off their posts with a list of disclaimers about how they know they should be doing X or Y or Z but it's not possible. 

 

I think there's probably a fairly strong consensus about the basics amongst everyone who winds up reading/posting here for any length of time:   Empowering women in the birth process, the importance of breastfeeding, being responsive to your baby's cries, not leaving them to CIO, feeding them healthy food and trying to keep them healthy in an increasingly toxic world.   

 

However,  within those basic areas, there are some more extreme positions that most people, even people drawn here for those basics, are not going to agree are integral to being either attached or natural.  MDC has actually made space for some of those extreme positions (go visit the veg*n forum and then the TF forum, for two very different extremes on what "natural living" means when it comes to human diets).   In other areas, though, one extreme position may have no counterbalance, leaving middle of the roaders with the idea that the extreme is, or should be,  the ultimate goal of everyone at MDC. 

 

 

 

 

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#14 of 86 Old 06-15-2011, 11:42 AM
 
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re: the OP. I've been here six years. I can remember - even during the heavy moderation - multiple threads/posts about having spanked and asking for input on a better way to handle it. It almost sounds as if you're recommending that parents who spank or have spanked, but want to stop doing so, should just shut up and not seek guidance/help here, because protecing the "vibe" is more important than promoting GD. If the only people who can post here are those who are already 100% on board with everything that MDC stands for (or that some posters think it stands for), then nobody can learn anything.

 

I simply don't understand why there's any problem with "I spanked ds - what should I have done/what could I do better?" type threads/posts. IMO, they're no different than "we're using disposables, but want to switch to cloth - what do I need to know?" or "we're going vegetarian - recipes/suggestions needed" or whatever. These are all about people coming here and asking for help, because they're moving in a more MDC-friendly direction.

 

 

Finding the balance for moderation is tricky. I do think we were heavily over-moderated before. I mean...I got an alert, because someone posted a "favourite junk food?" thread in TAO, and someone else said we should have a "favourite vegetable?" thread, so I started one. I got an alert, because it should have been in Nutrition and Good Eating. I got another one, because someone asked me a question in a TAO thread, and the question was based on some posts I'd made in PaP. I answered the question...and got an alert, because I was discussing other threads. I totally get that both of those were in violation of forum rules, but it was also really overboard, imo. I mostly like the changes (except that everybody left, and the forums are dead!), but I'm sure there will be some growing/adjustment pains.


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#15 of 86 Old 06-15-2011, 01:10 PM
 
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I am personally happy to see MDC go back to a less moderated forum where people are allowed to discuss and disagree. Frankly, I've never posted much over the last couple of years for fear that I was "doing it wrong". I really miss the people that used to be here and all the various opinions. The vibe now (for me) seems to be glossed-over perfection, with no room for non-ap error. I admit, I was starting to feel guilty for some of the things I do and that I couldn't measure up to the MDC perfection. I love that hopefully the board will go back to "keeping it real" smile.gif
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#16 of 86 Old 06-15-2011, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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storm bride- sorry, it is tough to express all of my feelngs without giving some examples- so I chose those- just to respond to that point, I think it is fine for MDC to be a place where people can learn more gentle ways to parent. Even if they are wanting to discuss how to avoid spanking for next time. I was just trying to use that as an example of how it feels different in here to me lately. I am not trying to argue with anyone. Or to prove a point or argue rights and wrongs. I am way too tired right now to even begin to form too many clear ideas anyway, lol. I was just trying to express how MDC feelas different to me sicne the moderation changed- and that the overall feeling felt less gentle to me than it used to. Sorry if the word vibe offends anyone.! I was just trying to express my opinion! I am not trying to censor anyone or kick people out. Simply to have discussion about the ways in which this forum has changed and acknowledge the facet that many people who have been on MDC for a while are finding some things uncomfrtable about the new forum.

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#17 of 86 Old 06-15-2011, 03:38 PM
 
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I am not a major poster here at MDC, but I do check in daily and post in a few forums regularly. This is what I believe went down recently that has caused lower participation and a weird vibe.

 

  • MDC changed their forum format and some people had major issues with it. The look, feel, features and computer issues too.
  • Mothering Magazine stopped publicizing their magazine and did not return money to recent subscribers. Some people were very upset by this.
  • MDC has attempted to increase their web presence by posting forum threads on their Facebook page (although they may have changed this) which upset quite a few people.
  •  MDC started to create their own threads as a way to get the conversation going and attract more posts (these might be posted on FB) and people seemed to like this change.
  • MDC added Expert subforums, which some users like and others do not. One “expert” in particular has been controversial and some are questioning her credentials.
  • MDC had the recent Pat Robertson thread which was an unathuroized listing by their partner and was pulled by MDC. Users were very upset by this because it indicates MDC is relying more on partners and advertisers for this forum.
  • MDC decreased the amount of moderating on the forum. This has opened up the voicing of opinions on all the topics I mentioned above. It’s not that people are now more expressive. It’s that now people can express their opinions without the thread being shut down.
  • As all these changes have taken place, “trolls” have dropped by more often to post and cause havoc. Some of the threads you mention might have been started by Trolls. This has added to the bad vibe for sure.
  • It has also been brought to more member attention (certainly mine) that other forums post and mock our threads to their forums. This isn’t anything MDC can control, but it has caused some people to not want to most here for privacy reasons.

 

I think all of this has caused people to “jump ship” and less forum activity, which makes MDC not a very exciting place. And less threads might mean people visit less often. It also means the snarky threads stand out more. And some of them are very fun!

 

I definitely think it is far more than just the lowered moderation that has lead to any weird vibe, decreased participation and snarkiness. It’s all of the above.

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#18 of 86 Old 06-15-2011, 06:11 PM
 
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Actually, the vibe here used to be awesome, way back when it was less moderated (before you were here rhianna813). A little before you got here it started becoming much more heavily moderated to the point of ridiculousness. I think a lot of the recent posting has been backlash from old posters (pre-2008) that were upset with the heavy-handed moderation. I'm hoping that this place can again become what it was, but I'm not sure if that's going to happen.
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#19 of 86 Old 06-15-2011, 06:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhianna813 View Post

I am not a major poster here at MDC, but I do check in daily and post in a few forums regularly. This is what I believe went down recently that has caused lower participation and a weird vibe.

 

  • MDC changed their forum format and some people had major issues with it. The look, feel, features and computer issues too.
  • Mothering Magazine stopped publicizing their magazine and did not return money to recent subscribers. Some people were very upset by this.
  • MDC has attempted to increase their web presence by posting forum threads on their Facebook page (although they may have changed this) which upset quite a few people.
  •  MDC started to create their own threads as a way to get the conversation going and attract more posts (these might be posted on FB) and people seemed to like this change.
  • MDC added Expert subforums, which some users like and others do not. One “expert” in particular has been controversial and some are questioning her credentials.
  • MDC had the recent Pat Robertson thread which was an unathuroized listing by their partner and was pulled by MDC. Users were very upset by this because it indicates MDC is relying more on partners and advertisers for this forum.
  • MDC decreased the amount of moderating on the forum. This has opened up the voicing of opinions on all the topics I mentioned above. It’s not that people are now more expressive. It’s that now people can express their opinions without the thread being shut down.
  • As all these changes have taken place, “trolls” have dropped by more often to post and cause havoc. Some of the threads you mention might have been started by Trolls. This has added to the bad vibe for sure.
  • It has also been brought to more member attention (certainly mine) that other forums post and mock our threads to their forums. This isn’t anything MDC can control, but it has caused some people to not want to most here for privacy reasons.

 

I think all of this has caused people to “jump ship” and less forum activity, which makes MDC not a very exciting place. And less threads might mean people visit less often. It also means the snarky threads stand out more. And some of them are very fun!

 

I definitely think it is far more than just the lowered moderation that has lead to any weird vibe, decreased participation and snarkiness. It’s all of the above.



I agree.  I think the weird vibe here is WAY less about moderation or lack there of and way MORE about all these other changes as far as marketing/advertising, and general respect. 

 

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#20 of 86 Old 06-15-2011, 06:26 PM
 
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I have to say as an AP mom that hasnt done everything on the AP/Crunchy checklist, I never let MDC make me feel I was short changing my child. Parenting is a continuum. You take what you need and leave what you dont.

 

A few things I have said have been moderated in the past, and I didnt mind, but they were way more timid than what I have seen posted on MDC lately. I am actually surprised at how little its moderated, when I think of the things I said that I was warned about.

 

I am curious to see what happens next with MDC.


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#21 of 86 Old 06-15-2011, 08:04 PM
 
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rhianna: I agree with most of what you posted. I know a lot of people jumped ship pretty much as soon as the forum format changed. The new format drives me bonkers, too. It's really frustrating to work with.

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#22 of 86 Old 06-15-2011, 08:56 PM
 
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Interesting to read this thread. I picked up on some recent changes myself- the kind of posts that I am alarmed to see (and why I do not frequent other boards) on spanking and the like.

 

I hope that the culture of MDC stays somewhat crunchy- both for AP parents as well as homesteaders and frugal living people. I really like that. I also like that people of all faiths are here, and there are people from all walks of life.

 

I recently had to post that I was offended by what someone said and asked for moderation on a thread, which is the first time I ever had to do that. I was a little stunned.


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#23 of 86 Old 06-15-2011, 09:38 PM
 
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I find it interesting that the "troubling" thing noted about the Pat Robertson thread is related to the advertising aspect.


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#24 of 86 Old 06-15-2011, 09:42 PM
 
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Aww... for  the good old days when we were mothering dot commune.  My posting definitely took a dive around the time we became mothering dot community.  This new format is like nails in a coffin for me.  It takes forever to load and is totally glitchy.  And also no one ever posts here anymore.

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#25 of 86 Old 06-16-2011, 02:09 AM
 
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I joined MDC back in 2003 (it feels like a million years ago now). I haven't been able to bring myself to even lurk in my old haunts in ages. I've tried, but I just can't do it. I'm glad to hear that the moderation is less obnoxious now, because quite frankly I don't believe I deserved ANY of the points I received under the old system. That said, I'm not sure if it is possible for me to feel welcome here anymore. I don't feel that MDC supports my values as a parent anymore, let alone as a human being.

 

Why did I stop posting? The advertising, the ridiculous moderation, and the epidemic of other sites lambasting threads and users. In the early days of the Google partnership in particular, the advertising was completely wrong. I can remember pro-vaccine ads showing up, for example, and people freaking out over them. The entire scene was like a comedy of errors, and most people were afraid to say anything at all because no one knew what would get a moderator's panties into a bunch.

 

I know that MDC "can't do anything" about other websites, but the way that things were moderated around here really made those other sites necessary in the first place-- people started flocking to them because it was too stifling around here. I don't think I was particularly controversial, but I had posts and threads pulled on several occasions when I was being perfectly reasonable-- questions like, "How can we say that we support respecting children as human beings when MDC doesn't treat it's adult members with that same respect?" earned warnings and such. It was obnoxious, overbearing, and controlling-- all the things which MDC once stood firmly against in terms of parenting seemed to become policy for dealing with adults. Many (myself included) found the hypocrisy intolerable. Many of us tried to make it work, but we eventually gave up.

 

There are things about MDC which I still miss. I loved all of the DDC in which I participated, and still communicate regularly with women from them. The tribes were likewise amazing for me, I've met many women I never would have known otherwise and my life is better for it. I was a founding member of Parenting the Gifted Child, and I was the first person to suggest the title "Breastfeeding Beyond Infancy"; I feel like I have a place in MDC history even if I didn't always agree with everyone and I wasn't a terribly popular (in the positive sense ;)) member. I have learned a great deal from MDC, and have been affected  in many positive ways by the community here. I was saddened when I realized that I was avoiding MDC, and sadder still when I would visit and feel completely alienated from the community and unable to speak my mind. Like I said, I haven't been the most popular member but I did make an effort to be civil when I disagreed (most people did, once upon a time).

 

I feel very old, and very sad. Honestly, I probably won't be back. MDC seems to be all about alienating it's supporters these days, and it has felt that way for quite some time. My suggestions for improvement? Reduced moderation is a start, but without knowing what it entails I can't say that it's enough. I would start by getting rid of the advertising team. It seems to me that MDC staff has fallen victim to the logical fallacy of the Argument from Authority. "We're having money problems, so let's talk to people who are good at making money." The fact that ad execs know how to make money is irrelevant, especially when your particular consumer base is (was?) largely anti-commercialism. Who thought that it could possibly be a good idea to have commercial advertising, especially advertising which is not rigorously vetted, on a website with an entire forum dedicated to living life without television?

 

I am  very grateful for the friends I have made here, most of whom I still communicate with regularly-- on Facebook, where they make up a sizable portion of my Friends List. :) I'm also grateful for the many things I have learned, and the diversity which once made MDC my favorite place on the Web. I have found comfort, support, laughter, hand-holding and kicks in the pants when I needed them, but I feel like I'm reminiscing about a place that existed lifetimes ago. (Heh. I suppose, technically, that I am. :)) I wish you luck on the journey, and I hope that MDC can find a way to a new path-- one more in line with the values which originally drew me to this place. I'll be on Facebook, ranting about breastfeeding statistics and laughing at children's books with obscene titles to which we can all relate (even if we don't want to admit it ;)). :wave


Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#26 of 86 Old 06-16-2011, 04:48 AM
 
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I have found myself moving on.

 

For a couple of reasons:

 

1. I am more secure in my parenting and am not looking for the affirmation I needed as a new mother.

2. I really dislike the commercial/consumerist aspect of MDC

3. The new format makes it very frustrating to post

 

I will always be grateful to my DDC's and for having found a platform to explore parenting philosophies. MDC played a large role in my life from 2008 - about 2009/2010.

 

I am sad it has fallen apart like it has.


Megan, mama to her little boy (Feb2008) and introducing our little girl (Dec 2010)
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#27 of 86 Old 06-16-2011, 05:59 AM
 
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The vitriol is just out of hand. 

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#28 of 86 Old 06-16-2011, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I just feel like there is a ton of mean ness on here all of a sudden. I am thinking af maybe returning to occasional lurk mode but keeping my thoughts to myself, unless I have a question I really need help with. In the last few weeks I just feel intimidated to post anything because it feels like there are snarky responses and arguments waiting around every corner! oh well, it used to be super fun here but things change. even in another thread I just posted in yesterday I got a bunch of mean snark thrown at me- it was like a clear example of what I am talking about. anyway- if anyone wants to pm me if there are any new forums people have gone to that have a more friendly feeling, that would be cool. thanks

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#29 of 86 Old 06-16-2011, 07:27 AM
 
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I don't mind not being over-moderated and I am glad for everyone who feels confident in their parenting no matter how "crunchy" or "un-crunchy" it is...but it does seem like there is a lot of backlash. People putting things in their sigs like "I have completely un-natural hospital births and loved them!" or people saying how awesome epidurals are or that they scheduled all 3 of their C-sections...that's great I am totally happy your feel good about that BUT this is the only place I know of where I can not be a "freak" form having a drug-free birth and BFing my toddler.

 

SO maybe I am being selfish but I just want ONE place (even if it's virtual) where I can be me and hold my values without judgment, after all I did come here b/c I wanted a natural birth and am really into AP and GD and other NFL things. Why is it too much to ask to have a NFL site? No I don't think you should be judged for having you c-section either, but this is not the site to go around promoting c-sections or epis. I also don't see why it has become what it has just b/c the mods let us loose.

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 Young born-again mama and loving wife peace.gif to DH jammin.gif and SAHP to two crazy girls dust.gifwehomebirth.jpgfly-by-nursing2.gifslinggirl.giffamilybed1.gif and believe gd.giflactivist.gif  signcirc1.gif !

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#30 of 86 Old 06-16-2011, 07:52 AM
 
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I don't know if it's the moderation or what...but the mood the past couple of weeks has been VERY childish. Seriously, do you guys realize there are at least 4 threads discussing this EXACT SAME THING?!? We get it. Some people miss the old moderation, some people are glad, some people could give a $h!t. All of the complaining is making people sound like a bunch of kids. "MMOOOMMM, they're being mean to me!!!"  "I don't like you anymore!" etc...

 

Can we just agree to disagree and stop beating the poor horse? Or at least keep the complaining all in one thread? Everyone go sit in your corners.


Kas (24), Helpmeet to Stefan (25), Mom to Franklin Gaudelio 4/15/09, Jonathan Boswell 1/2/11
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