Moderation of MDC - What do you think? - Page 19 - Mothering Forums

View Poll Results: Moderation of MDC - What do you think?
I think the current minimal moderation is great. It allows members the freedom to express their opinions without fear of their thread being shut down or a warning issued. Discussions of all types should be permitted and the community should be allowed to respond with their opinions unrestricted. I feel there are some situations where heavy moderation may be necessary but these are very few (explain). 416 56.68%
I do not like the minimal moderation and feel that it is leading to problems. To help protect the integrity of the forums and make the community a comfortable place to post we need the moderators to return to their previous moderation approach. They should oversee discussions more and remove things that are mean, snarky, sarcastic, and harassing. They should remove threads and posts that are against Mothering's parenting philosophies. Members who refuse to post appropriately should be moderated and those who persist in such behavior should be warned consistently and, if necessary, their membership removed. 204 27.79%
Other (explain what sort of moderation you think should be in place) 114 15.53%
Voters: 734. You may not vote on this poll

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#541 of 612 Old 06-24-2011, 03:57 PM
 
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Wow, great job with the apology! I'm glad to hear there is discussion on moderating also, I feel optimistic!
Thanks:)

Deb, Mom to Madeleine 8/2005 and Maia 11/2009 Nick: and Chris
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#542 of 612 Old 06-24-2011, 05:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post


Peggy has been very busy with a few other matters that took her away from the boards. But she did write the apology and ask me to post it as an announcement. I asked for more specifics on where and how and again it took her a few days to get back to me because of other matters she had to attend to. When she did respond and asked me to place it as an announcement I found our platform character restriction would not allow the full text of what she had written. So I could not place it as she requested and I really didn't want to post it in some other way that might have made some feel that we were avoiding the announcement placement at the top of the site. But I finally decided that placing it as a page and using the announcement feature was good enough so I went ahead and placed it that way instead of waiting for her to approve it. 

 

 

Thanks for the explanation!
 

 

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Originally Posted by Ornery View Post

The apology is a great start!  I look forward to seeing it linked in a more permanent way on the main forums page and on FB.  Are there any other ideas being discussed about how to move forward with this?  Maybe linking to an organization that combats hate crimes or something along those lines?


I think all of these are a fabulous ideas!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post

 

Yes, we have talked about things to do to move forward. Once we have something more to share we'll post it. smile.gif


That's great!  I'm looking forward to seeing what's next!

 


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#543 of 612 Old 06-25-2011, 06:19 AM
 
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Cynthia,  thanks for taking a look at the tone/civility issues here.  I really am happy about that.  

 

Maybe call it "Gentle Posting" ~ like Gentle Parenting.  Doesn't preclude frank, multiple-sided discussions, but done in a fundamentally kind way.  


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#544 of 612 Old 06-25-2011, 09:09 AM
 
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I would say minimal moderation if people could honestly control themselves to treat other members like human beings.  However, I don't see that happening.  I think some people are having a hard time with the huge annonymity factor and feel they can say anything no matter how cruel to other members.  And the things they say actually do hurt real live people.  Seriously, these people need a lesson in nonviolent communication ASAP.  So until the maturity of MDC increases, we need more moderation to handle the namecalling and nastiness.  It's like Jr High with no teachers right now.

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#545 of 612 Old 06-25-2011, 09:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subhuti View Post

Cynthia,  thanks for taking a look at the tone/civility issues here.  I really am happy about that.  

 

Maybe call it "Gentle Posting" ~ like Gentle Parenting.  Doesn't preclude frank, multiple-sided discussions, but done in a fundamentally kind way.  


Perfect! That's so well put - and there's no reason why that couldn't be done. To settle for anything less is just not necessary nor in the interests of Mothering. This isn't just a generic Internet board, but the face of a well respected business and institution that's been a huge support to many for decades. If traditional Mothering principles are run over by the current cultural trend of snarkiness, a lot will be lost in the process - this should be a place where people can count on civility and kindness.   - Lillian

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#546 of 612 Old 06-25-2011, 08:13 PM
 
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I had voted for other, simply because the last few months I've been hanging around the Mindful Home section rather than the parenting stuff and hadn't noticed a change. I just went to a few of my old forums and was very surprised to see the tone and just plain nastiness that has crept in. I want to change my vote to more moderation. This was a safe place, a sanctuary for me when the rest of my world told me I was going too far in being earth-friendly, not being a good parent for not CIO, and not supporting me fully in my decisions to have a homebirth or not vax my kids.

 

MDC has been the one source that I have turned to over the past four years to make and learn about NFL, and I cannot thank your magazine and the numerous posters who have helped me be a better person, mother, wife, and daughter. But with the complete surprise of the magazine folding and now with the types of mean and downright rude posts I saw just today, I'm wondering if MDC is slipping away from it's original ideals.

 

Please come back, old MDC, and don't disappoint the women who need you...


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#547 of 612 Old 06-25-2011, 09:15 PM
 
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I just had a post held for moderation. Why I do not know as I am a long time member. My complaint? about the Egglands best Ads!  What they don't want to be called out about another questionable advertiser?  Posted under fair use laws....

 

 

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Egg Land's Worst

Rembrandt FarmsDepiction of Rose Acre's Rembrandt Farm on the company's Web site -- the chickens' reality is quite differentThe Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) has filed a complaint (pdf) with the Federal Trade Commission to stop the country's largest egg producer, Rose Acre Farms -- makers of Eggland's Best eggs -- from making false and misleading statements in its marketing and advertising about how it treats chickens at the company's farms. On its Web site, posters and in media interviews, the company suggests that Rose Acre provides a "humane and friendly environment" for caged birds, that birds have plenty of space to "move around and socialize" with other chickens and that only chickens who are treated well will be "happy" enough to lay eggs. Rose Acre also claims that their chickens are "comfortable." In reality, according to HSUS, millions of hens are confined for their entire lives in barren wire cages stacked four and eight levels high. Cages are so densely packed that the birds cannot even spread their wings fully. In February and March 2010, HSUS conducted undercover investigations at several Rose Acre Farms locations and videotaped how the chickens are kept. Chickens lose limbs or endure broken bones from rough handling, some birds get trapped in the cage wire and become unable to reach food and water or get trampled to death, and some chickens die, with the carcasses left to rot in the cages for weeks or longer. Consumers have no way to verify producers' claims about how chickens are kept.

 

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#548 of 612 Old 06-25-2011, 10:00 PM
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Where did you post it?  If you posted in Activism, all those posts, like the posts in here are held for moderation. NOthing personal, just they way the board is set up.

 

ETA: I see you posted it in Questions and Suggestions.  The questions here are all held for approval and answering.  In the note at the top of the forum you will see that we ask for 24-48 hours to respond. :)


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#549 of 612 Old 06-26-2011, 04:50 AM - Thread Starter
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And I replied by PM to let you know your complaint was received and reported. smile.gif


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#550 of 612 Old 06-26-2011, 07:10 AM
 
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I've been reading this thread, reading around MDC off and on as I could the past few days and thinking.

 

For me it comes down to this...Would I send a new, young parent here?

 

Right now the answer is no.

 

For the people who want a no holds barred, snarky board...there are so many other places out on the internet like that. Why is it so hard to come to MDC and just be respectful and courteous while posting here?

 

Being respectful and courteous to other members is the key.

 

I understand this is the internet and there is a certain level of anonymity, but if you would not talk to someone face to face in a certain manner, it should not be okay to treat someone disrespectfully and discourteously just because you don't have to look them in the eye.

 

Honestly, I would be fine with moderation for the "treat other members with respect and courtesy" part of the new UA.

 

MDC is a valuable resource, especially for young, first time parents, but right now they have to wade through so much garbage to get the information they may be looking for that they may simply walk away from here. That is a shame.

 

I used to recommend this board. I won't now until it is at least minimally civil again.

 

That is what is missing here since I came back from a long break...respect and courtesy.

 

There have always been snarky posters here, but right now it feels like  MDC is overun with snarkiiness and hatefulness.

 

I have no issues with MDC ( Peggy and the admins) deciding what kind of board they want this to be, then enforcing some rules to keep the board on track. If members like it here, they'll stay. If they don't, they'll leave and find a comfortable place somewhere else.

 

MDC can't be all things to all people.

 

It can be a great resource for AP/NFL living and the new UA should work FINE as long as members treat one another with respect and courtesy.

 

And there is room for people who are at different places on the continuum of AP/NFL.

 

It is possible to disagree without being disagreeable.

 

I sincerely hope MDC comes through this transition intact, with a clear purpose of what it wants to offer to parents out there, who it wants as an audience and what its goals are.

 

Right now, it's like a free for all out there in some forums...not a good place for new parents who are trying to find their way and get some help while they start this journey.

 

 

 

 

 


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#551 of 612 Old 06-26-2011, 02:00 PM
 
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Oh, so well put, tinybutterfly!  You've nailed it beautifully and simply.  Thank you for articulating what I've been trying to come up with since my last post. 


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#552 of 612 Old 06-26-2011, 03:34 PM
 
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Thank you tb. I think you hit the nail on the head.

 
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#553 of 612 Old 06-26-2011, 04:31 PM
 
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Extremely well-put tinybutterfly! I heartily agree!!!!!!! thumb.gifclap.gif


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#554 of 612 Old 06-26-2011, 06:21 PM
 
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#555 of 612 Old 06-26-2011, 07:04 PM
 
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Very well put, tinybutterfly!  We need more people like you here love.gif

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#556 of 612 Old 06-26-2011, 07:39 PM
 
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I've come to this thread many times to comment and have simply held my fingers and closed the site down.

 

MDC used to be a place of camaradarie and I place where I felt like I had a connection with others.  I was a moderator on this board before the User Agreement became such a beast of rules and while it was a beast of rules.  I was questioning of the changes and the ever increasing rules we were asked to enforce.  I became uncomfortable in the role I had in the community and the administration became uncomfortable with my discomfort - thus I left moderating. 

 

I always listened to members and always tried to see the best in people on all sides but in the end, MDC lost its sparkle for me. 

 

I think the manner that Mothering ceased it's magazine production was incredibly poorly handled.  The integrity of Mothering has been forever damaged in the eyes of most subscribers who were effected.  Mothering made radical changes, one on top of another on top of another and many community members were not willing to go along for the ride.  I understand that.

 

I am excited to see that the new administration is willing to hear open criticism and I have faith that members will be listened to.

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#557 of 612 Old 06-26-2011, 08:01 PM
 
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I meant to include this in an earlier post I made, but I do want to add that because of choosing MDC because it was moderated, from the beginning I was appreciative of the work of the moderators. I especially appreciated the moderators who would gently explain why something was happening (e.g. "I've moved this thread to XX because YYY." or "This thread has been removed because ZZZ.") When I was a new member, I found being about to understand what was happening (even when it wasn't a thread I started or posted on) was helpful to really understanding the (at the time) gentle and supportive community. I know some of the moderators still do that (thank you!) and I hope with the changes that under discussion, a return to the gentle education coupled with moderation will be part of MDC.


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#558 of 612 Old 06-27-2011, 07:04 AM
 
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I think the less moderation is good, but I wouldn't ignore so many people who are upset by it, particularly long-time members. There has to be some kind of moderate kind of moderation out there. Also, several people have mentioned some old-timers have left the board or don't post as much....I'd like to throw out the suggestion (if it hasn't been brought up already) that part of that might be because of the format change. I don't consider myself a "true" old-timer here just yet, but I think: a.) people don't like change, and b.) initially after the format change I know I had to stop coming here because the page loaded waaay too slowly on my browser, and would make it crash. I can come on now more often because I got a new, upgraded browser. ;)

 

Another thing....I haven't read ALL the threads recently but I have NEVER found a pro-spanking thread here. I don't know how to put this gently....I don't think that some people can handle having their viewpoints challenged AT ALL without jumping to extreme conclusions about the motives/beliefs of the persons who are challenging them.

 

Case in point: the recent Spanking vs. Violence thread. As this thread devolved more and more members were complaining that they couldn't beleive that some of the posts that were "pro-spanking" hadn't been moderated. Now, I read the entire thread and was a part of it and there was only ONE POST that could be construed as being pro-spanking. It was one of my own posts, which if read out of context could look like it was advocating spanking. I did have that post edited, btw, after the outcry. BUT if anyone reads that thread carefully I think you can see that me and the others who were posting against the OP's premise were NOT advocating for spanking. The thread was set up as a "question" but there wasn't really any question there. The OP just wanted to open a thread stating her opinion that all spanking = violence, period, end of story. Nobody posted saying "hey, I object, I spank my kids all the time and they're ok!" Rather, a few posters were saying that they choose to not spank their own kids but they were spanked themselves to some degree and their parents weren't violent or unstable or shaming, etc. IE: not all children who were spanked turn out wrong and not all caregivers who spank are evil. I think that's pretty reasonable. We were basically put in a position in that discussion of defending our parents, our childhoods, against a HUGE broad-brush assertion. And when we did so, we were breaking the rules according to several members.

 

That thread was closed. (So much for minimal moderation. winky.gif ) But that's the kind of discourse (albeit, with my edited post) that I think is good and ok for MDC. A (possibly unintentionally) provocative thread with a controversial premise was started and a lot of posters refused to hold their tongues. If people can't handle *that*, if they can't see how that was NOT advocating for harsh discipline techniques than I think that's a problem that they may need to look inward to find a solution to. I'm sorry, I hate the way that last sentence sounds but I can't think of a more gentle way to say it.

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#559 of 612 Old 06-27-2011, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeegirl View Post

I think the less moderation is good, but I wouldn't ignore so many people who are upset by it, particularly long-time members. There has to be some kind of moderate kind of moderation out there.

 

I concur. Let's remember that "moderate" is an adjective as well as a verb. Even though the majority has voted that they prefer the new moderation (myself included), nearly half of the members are still unhappy.

 

I don't know how to put this gently....I don't think that some people can handle having their viewpoints challenged AT ALL without jumping to extreme conclusions about the motives/beliefs of the persons who are challenging them.

 

Yes! Yes! A million times, yes! Just recently I was accused of being "snarky" because I disagreed with someone's perspective and suggested they go back and re-read the OP. Disagreement is not the same thing as persecution!

 



 

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#560 of 612 Old 06-27-2011, 12:26 PM
 
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I agree that people need to be open to criticism and hearing ideas that are contrary to their own.  I feel that's one of the benefits of an online community is having so many different wise backgrounds coming together and sharing ideas and viewpoints.

 

That said, the maturity of a forum's members is key.  All members need to be able to logically converse, critically evaluate information and opinions, and challenge their own views on things. Pointing and screaming "you're stupid I don't like you!" is obviously not helpful and having even one person like that seems to bring down the mentality of an entire group.  I notice while teaching that even having one kid who wants to scream and run circles and bump into walls is enough to turn a class of kids who are attentive and respectful into a class of kids who run around screaming.

 

I realize that when posting here recently, I feel like I'm back in Jr. High.  When I was in Jr. High, I had a friend who found another friend and found it a good idea to make my life hell.  So they passed notes, whispered about me, drew mean pictures on the chalkboard, rallied up groups, etc.  It was awful.  Then one day I was fed up with the way they were treating me and when I got off the bus, I turned around and flipped them off.  Not the most mature response, but given what they had put me through, I say it was a minimal reaction.  When I went back to school the next week, I had a large group of people who were acting shallowly sanctimonious and telling me that they didn't approve of my giving a fellow classmate the finger and no longer wanted to have anything to do with me.  Because, as we all know, giving the finger is just plain wrong.

 

Now this is what I am seeing here.  People are prodding at someone, making personal attacks that are hurtful and below the belt, making snide remarks and using snarky sarcasm.  Then when the person reacts, they take on a "holier than thou" air, how dare you say anything remotely negative, you shall uphold the utmost respect and maturity no matter what the situation. 

 

The standards need to go both ways.  We need to cut out the personal attacks and if someone does come in and throw in a punch, that needs to be the exception, not the rule.  There needs to be a larger group available to jump in a say "this behavior is not ok" BEFORE the OP feels horribly attacked.  And these people need to feel comfortable saying so publicly.  I've now gotten several PMs from people at various times saying "I'm on your side, I'm sorry you are being attacked like this, it's just horrible" which helps, but it would be better to have these things public.

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#561 of 612 Old 06-27-2011, 12:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Goddess3_2005 View Post

I just had a post held for moderation. Why I do not know as I am a long time member. My complaint? about the Egglands best Ads!  What they don't want to be called out about another questionable advertiser?  Posted under fair use laws....

 

 

 


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#562 of 612 Old 06-27-2011, 03:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeegirl View Post

 

Case in point: the recent Spanking vs. Violence thread. As this thread devolved more and more members were complaining that they couldn't beleive that some of the posts that were "pro-spanking" hadn't been moderated. Now, I read the entire thread and was a part of it and there was only ONE POST that could be construed as being pro-spanking. It was one of my own posts, which if read out of context could look like it was advocating spanking.

 


No, somebody (maybe you) said that spanking can be done in a loving way, and that sometimes it's necessary. That's what I was surprised was still on the thread.

I've never said that saying "I was spanked and I'm fine" was advocating spanking, unless it was followed by "so I think it's ok to spank." In that very thread, I'm pretty sure I said that I was spanked, and certainly didn't consider my mom to be violent. I've never complained of such statements being in any thread on mothering.

 

I don't get why it's so hard to believe that some people want Mothering to stand by their core values. I liked it when people weren't allowed to defend spanking as a parenting decision (which, I'll say it again, is very different than saying "I spanked and I feel awful" or "I currently spank and want to stop" or "I was spanked and I'm fine, but that doesn't mean spanking is ok.") Sorry. I like having one place where I don't have to see people defending hitting kids. If that changes (I guess it has), then I won't be surprised when those things stay on a thread. But I will continue to disagree with things like "spanking can be done in a loving way" and "sometimes it's necessary."
 

And yeah, it's not because I'm insecure in my decision to not hit my kids (which was stated in another thread), any more than me saying that domestic violence is wrong is because I'm insecure with my partner not hitting me.


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#563 of 612 Old 06-27-2011, 06:06 PM
 
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Quote:

Originally Posted by DevaMajka View PostI don't get why it's so hard to believe that some people want Mothering to stand by their core values. I liked it when people weren't allowed to defend spanking as a parenting decision (which, I'll say it again, is very different than saying "I spanked and I feel awful" or "I currently spank and want to stop" or "I was spanked and I'm fine, but that doesn't mean spanking is ok.") Sorry. I like having one place where I don't have to see people defending hitting kids.


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#564 of 612 Old 06-27-2011, 06:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DevaMajka View Post

I liked it when people weren't allowed to defend spanking as a parenting decision...


I agree 100%.  When I was active in the GD forum it was tricky to endorse even "logical consequences" let alone hitting a child.  After a stretch of not really needing the boards (supportive IRL community and happy, healthy kid) I came back while pregnant for the second time.  I came back to the GD forum only to see a member endorse hitting.  I actually flagged the post and it's still there today.  That was back in October '10 and it still bugs me.  So, yea, I would love if MDC moderated about things like that.  I like the idea of MDC moderating for tone and stuff like that too but I think it's far, FAR more important for MDC to moderate for content that is consistent with ideals of the magazine/website.  


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#565 of 612 Old 06-28-2011, 01:36 AM
 
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Just to take this thread slightly off topic, again shy.gif, where I live hitting children (spanking) is illegal... because sometime in the 80s legislators decided that the laws against physical assault of adults should apply to children too. Since they're people too and all. And this was in a culture that, until then, had definitely been physical-discipline-centered. Most people my age (20s) wouldn't even consider spanking anymore. So I always find it strange to remember that it's even an issue still in other modernized western countries.

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#566 of 612 Old 06-28-2011, 08:57 AM
 
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 Since they're people too and all. 



 

 love.gif  That can't be repeated too often - people forget the obvious.      -  Lillian

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#567 of 612 Old 06-28-2011, 01:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ursusarctos View Post

Just to take this thread slightly off topic, again shy.gif, where I live hitting children (spanking) is illegal... because sometime in the 80s legislators decided that the laws against physical assault of adults should apply to children too. Since they're people too and all. And this was in a culture that, until then, had definitely been physical-discipline-centered. Most people my age (20s) wouldn't even consider spanking anymore. So I always find it strange to remember that it's even an issue still in other modernized western countries.



Yes!  I guess I've surrounded myself in such an AP bubble, I'm always shocked when I step back into a mainstream group and see/hear about such practices.

 

I DEFINITELY agree mothering needs to have standards.  Absolutely.  Hurting kids is never ok.  ever.  If you are writing to find strategies to control your anger, that needs to be respected.

 

I used to be in an extremely crunchy group that somehow got taken over by a couple moms who were handing out advice like "I give my baby a bottle of water and let them scream in a crib while I put headphones on so I can't hear them".  These moms were kicked out.  Again, advice that is hurtful to kids is never acceptable. 

 

The only place where I see more of a gray area is in things like schooling and vaccines, where there are so many different opinions and people get passionate about these topics, where some would say you are neglectful for not vaccinating, others would say you are ignorant if you do vaccinate.  When I first explored the vaccine debate more than 5 years ago here, I was a bit shocked by the comments then, too, but I don't think the statements were disrespectful, just representative of an extreme ideology.

 

So, hurting/neglecting kids, not acceptable.  Raising your child differently, acceptable.

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#568 of 612 Old 06-29-2011, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama View Post




I agree 100%.  When I was active in the GD forum it was tricky to endorse even "logical consequences" let alone hitting a child.  After a stretch of not really needing the boards (supportive IRL community and happy, healthy kid) I came back while pregnant for the second time.  I came back to the GD forum only to see a member endorse hitting.  I actually flagged the post and it's still there today.  That was back in October '10 and it still bugs me.  So, yea, I would love if MDC moderated about things like that.  I like the idea of MDC moderating for tone and stuff like that too but I think it's far, FAR more important for MDC to moderate for content that is consistent with ideals of the magazine/website.  

 

ICM would you please link me to that post?  shy.gif
 

 


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#569 of 612 Old 06-29-2011, 09:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by DevaMajka View Post



 


No, somebody (maybe you) said that spanking can be done in a loving way, and that sometimes it's necessary. That's what I was surprised was still on the thread.

I've never said that saying "I was spanked and I'm fine" was advocating spanking, unless it was followed by "so I think it's ok to spank." In that very thread, I'm pretty sure I said that I was spanked, and certainly didn't consider my mom to be violent. I've never complained of such statements being in any thread on mothering.

 

I don't get why it's so hard to believe that some people want Mothering to stand by their core values. I liked it when people weren't allowed to defend spanking as a parenting decision (which, I'll say it again, is very different than saying "I spanked and I feel awful" or "I currently spank and want to stop" or "I was spanked and I'm fine, but that doesn't mean spanking is ok.") Sorry. I like having one place where I don't have to see people defending hitting kids. If that changes (I guess it has), then I won't be surprised when those things stay on a thread. But I will continue to disagree with things like "spanking can be done in a loving way" and "sometimes it's necessary."
 

And yeah, it's not because I'm insecure in my decision to not hit my kids (which was stated in another thread), any more than me saying that domestic violence is wrong is because I'm insecure with my partner not hitting me.


I honestly don't know if that was part of my post or not....I asked a mod to edit the post that I was referring to. But I also was not speaking about you or about anyone in particular. It was the entire premise of the thread and the (IMO) censor-y tone of people who were saying that those who disagreed weren't allowed to disagree because that would be against the rules. I know I stated that we don't spank our child and very likely never will, and I wasn't advocating for spanking. But by the very nature of the question in the thread, there wasn't really any way (again- IMO) that anyone could disagree with the OP's premise without it seeming to be a defense of spanking. That was the slippery-slope nature of the thread and why I said that I almost felt it was sort of a trap. Several people on the thread PMed me and I PMed a couple others and we all agreed and felt frustrated by the whole thing.

 


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#570 of 612 Old 06-29-2011, 03:47 PM
 
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ICM would you please link me to that post?  shy.gif
 

 


Sure.  :-)   I'll PM you the link.  

 


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