Moderation of MDC - What do you think? - Page 9 - Mothering Forums

View Poll Results: Moderation of MDC - What do you think?
I think the current minimal moderation is great. It allows members the freedom to express their opinions without fear of their thread being shut down or a warning issued. Discussions of all types should be permitted and the community should be allowed to respond with their opinions unrestricted. I feel there are some situations where heavy moderation may be necessary but these are very few (explain). 416 56.68%
I do not like the minimal moderation and feel that it is leading to problems. To help protect the integrity of the forums and make the community a comfortable place to post we need the moderators to return to their previous moderation approach. They should oversee discussions more and remove things that are mean, snarky, sarcastic, and harassing. They should remove threads and posts that are against Mothering's parenting philosophies. Members who refuse to post appropriately should be moderated and those who persist in such behavior should be warned consistently and, if necessary, their membership removed. 204 27.79%
Other (explain what sort of moderation you think should be in place) 114 15.53%
Voters: 734. You may not vote on this poll

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#241 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 07:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

I voted other

 

I believe that the level of moderation should lie somewhere in between what it currently is. The overly strict rules that used to prevail were at times ridiculous and I had a few warnings that were baseless imo. It seemed as if you couldn't express your opinion, even politely, because the mere fact that it was different from anothers would offend someone. But the looser rules, IMO, have contributed to a MDC that I don't even recognize anymore. Some threads seem to deteriorate into high school bickering contests that make my stomach turn. I'm actually suprised at the level of visciousness that has been permitted to go on and on until enough complaints are loged that the thread is closed.This seems to happen on boards where there is a distinct divide in parenting approaches (vaccines - AP ect). I think people in general are able and should be able to express thier opinions freely but respectfully.

I think there is a happy medium to be found with regards to the level of moderation on this board.

 

Some other mainstream boards are frankly disgusting and viscious and this is not only allowed but encouraged. The folks that seem to enjoy that type of debate can go there and leave MDC to remain a safe place where people can feel that they can express themselves without being made to feel like crap.



I have to comment on this.  MDC has never been that.  Never.  I've been here since 03 and I cannot tell you how many times I saw women being made to feel like crap by other posters here.  I myself have been on the receiving end more than once.  There are more than a few posters who love to come along and tell you how "Yer doin it rong!" 

 

I had to wean my twins cold turkey at 22 mo.  I posted about the meds I needed to go on, how I was weaning and promptly got my ass handed to me.  I posted once asking about getting a vax while I was sick.  Again, I got my ass handed to me.  I wasn't asking for info on why the vax was horrible, I was asking if I could get it with a cold.  It turned into a debate that got cleaned up and moved.  

 

Two weeks ago, I was participating in a TAO thread.  I shared, within that heated thread about my son dying.  Someone took it upon themselves to have the thread shut down- because of what I posted and then, she started a thread about my loss.  MY SON!  MY CHOICE ON HOW AND WHERE TO SHARE HIS DEATH!  How dare she?  That is the kind of moderation that sucks ass.

 

I am a grown woman.  I have parents who I can turn to for guidance and who can still help me learn.  I do not need moderators on a board telling me to play nice, or what I can say or how I can say it.  I do not need parenting.  And I sure as hell don't need my voice and thoughts silenced.  

 

 

 


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#242 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 08:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post




But there is also a pro-vaccination faction on here that regularly debates in the vax forums.  There is as you say "buzzing of negativity" from pro-vax folks here too.



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by lkvosu View Post



 

I'm a total newbie, and I don't "know" any of you. I have been lurking on this board for about a year but only recently began posting. I wasn't even going to post in this thread because, well, who cares what I think, right? After seeing the above post, though, I really felt compelled to add my two cents. I like the low moderation as it pertains to subject matter and dissenting opinions, as long as no one actually advocates spanking, CIO, or circ. But what I don't like is that someone could be as rude as this poster was.  Shouldn't this kind of hateful attitude be regulated? If it isn't going to be, then, like other posters have mentioned, MDC won't be any better than Babycenter.  And I don't mean to single out the person who posted this, but this is the worst example I've seen of the disrespect that many are complaining about.  I'm sure there are worse examples to be found, but I don't follow MDC closely enough to know of any.

 

For the record, I'm going to vote "other".


Everyone cares what you think. That's why we are here, to talk about what we think and hear what other people think. I'm glad that you are speaking out. I'm sorry for my hateful and upsetting speech yesterday....I'm really an extremely nice person IRL who, like many people, can tend to be a bit more "outgoing" when she's mad on the interwebs. My high strung self goes into overdrive and with no actual person physically sitting in front of me to remind me of my humanity, I go off on long rants and my anger comes off as far more intense on the page than it is in my heart.

 

MY APOLOGIES TO EVERYONE who had their energetic space assaulted by my negativity yesterday, I hope very much that I did not cause too many frowns or frustrations, it wasn't my intention.

 

Let me clear up why it is I got so angry:

 

Even on this board, I am a weirdo to many people. My views and beliefs and the way I live my life exist on the outter fringes EVEN IN THIS COMMUNITY. In my real life I have to hide a lot of who I am, because I'm just so sick of people being like "wow, you look really normal, I wouldn't have guessed that you...well, you know...aren't" - it's not funny, it's not cute and it makes me really tired to constantly have to explain and defend myself.

 

Then, there is this place. MDC. This community has meant so much to me over the years...I come and go, get burnt out sometimes by the moderation, etc....but always come back and enjoy the people here so much. What I don't enjoy, is that more and more in the last few years, the community has shifted and people with much more mainstream views have come to learn and participate and I began to notice (while I was SO HAPPY for the differing opinions and hearty debate) that a new brand of the kind of judgement and disgust at my lifestyle I'm used to seeing in "mainstreamy" places in the real world, began to exists more prevelently in THIS place.

 

 

As much as it hurts me to have my mother in law tell me "UC is dangerous, if you care about your baby, you have people there to help you" - it REALLY REALLY hurts to be here in this place, where I think I feel understood, to be going about my business and out of nowhere get hit with "UC is shameful and any mother who is considering it is saying that she is okay with holding a dead baby in her arms" - coming from the women here, who, even if I don't know them, I consider sisters in motherhood...fellow birth warriors no matter HOW you delivered your children....that punches just about a bazooka sized hole in the heart of me. It's not fair.  It really, really hurts.

 

So yeah, I'm sorry if I was rude or hurtful. I readily admit that I was wrong to be that way and I also admit that the kind of behavior I displayed yesterday is not what is going to bring back the sense of community and closeness I miss having here....but what other people have got to understand is this:

 

 

When you all are sitting in your chair, writing about how "there SHOULD be dissenting opinion on the UC forum" - I don't disagree with you. Dissent brings better truth and lifts everyone higher. If you go to the UC forum, you can see examples of dissent which fit within the guidelines of that forum.  But what the "dissenting opionion" *I* feel you guys are talking about usually ends being, is JUDGEMENT....and when I get all hot under the collar and start calling people names...that emotion is not coming out of nowhere. Behind that rage, is the intensity of many many years of trying WITHIN THE CRUNCHY BIRTH COMMUNITY to gain a little ground, a little respect, for the rights of a mother to chooses UC...and being shot down every. single. time.

 

That rage and poison is backed by memories of a good friend, holding a limp, dead baby, waiting for the ambulance to get there while her mother screamed and raged at her that this was all her fault....only this mother, the babys father and myself seemed to understand that this baby would have perished no matter where she was born. I've known women who lost babies in the hospital and with a midwife and also UCing. It is inevitable, when you make it your life to be involved in the birthing community, that you will know women who lose babies in all sorts of ways/places. Throwing around the term "dead babies" takes on a completely different meaning when you've actually held a dead baby in your arms. When you have heard the howling grief of a mother who will not see the fruit of her womb grow into a laughing, happy child.  There is nothing that can describe that. It is so surreal....you cannot tell me I don't care about dead babies, or that I don't know how serious that is...this was not even my baby, but in that moment I would have traded my own life to give that baby back it's own....it was SO real. "Dead babies" this and that...can be thrown around so casually, until you are in the presence of a dead baby. It's just there. It's real. Don't tell me I don't take it seriously enough, I know how completely serious it is.

 

People were shocked by my statement, that if it's not your baby you don't get to care. I didn't mean in the general sense...like in the sense that  many of us "care" about little boys who are facing circumsicion and the fight we are in to try and get awareness about circ out there. I don't mean care like that. I mean these women who ****stand in a place of "caring" that supposes they have the right to judge a mother for the death of her child***. If you weren't there, if you don't know all the facts, if you don't have to hear the screams of this woman and know her agony, if you don't stand there, seeing the nature of a marriage shifting in front of you, as a father looks at a mother with eyes that say "what did you do, what could you have done differently" - you don't get to stand between a mother and her dead child and cast stones. It's not your place, it's not your business and it diminishes that womans ability to heal and move on.

 

I am an extremely emotional person when it comes to children and birth and mothers. But I'm also a firm believer that my ship is mine. My choices are mine. Becuase I come from a place of education and hunger for knowledge, UC is safe for me....plenty of times I have given helpful advice or information to a mother who comes looking for it...but it's not my place to tell someone that they are not educated enough...it's not my business. Kind of like how, if someone needs the information about circ or vax, I'll put it out there, for SURE.....but when they look at me and say "I know what I'm doing, I know what I want for my child" - my work is done.

 

"UC is dangerous" - not putting out helpful information.

"UC it's not right for you to take this much control over your birthing process" - not putting out helpful information.

 

"I think I've heard of this before. You are describing symptoms that lead me to believe you could experience trouble in labor, it's not normal to feel that breathless, I would seek the care of a midwife to see if you should go ahead with your plans to UC" -  That's helpful.

 

Just as many times as I've said "go for it mama, happy UC" - I've said "This sounds wierd and not right, I think it's time for your "better safe than sorry" back up plan, mama". But across the board judgement and snarky comments of general disapproval do not help anyone.

 

 

Anyway, I'm just rambling now. We should all try and avoid being as rude as I was yesterday and I apologize again for shooting any negative energy rays into anyones life. But understand that there is more than one way to be rude...and when you say things like "UC mamas have given terrible advice and babies have DIED as a result" - man, that hurts on such a deep level. I called you guys "rubber neckers" - I shouldn't have called you ANY names, but let's be honest, you probably laughed and were like "what a lunatic" . You called UC mamas complicit in baby killing....you called UC mamas murderers of their chidlren...all I could think about yesterday was those couple of really bad births I've been to in my life. It just cuts so deep to be so misunderstood in a place where you feel you should belong.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post





Totally agree.  And to the poster who stated that all the UC mamas have done their research and soul searching... I'm sorry, but that is just obviously not true, or the "research" they are looking at is majorly flawed.  There have been some scarily uninformed posters on the UC board who have been encouraged to continue with UC despite it being obviously dangerous in the situations they described and asked for advice on. One particular UC advocate who has since supposedly left these boards chronically gave out terrible, dangerous information.  She followed up any comments voicing concern about UC with straight up attacks on the poster, including skilled midwives and others who have been UC supporters or had UCs themself.   I'm not going to sit back and shut up when that is the kind of "research" some of these mamas are doing.

 

Avery'sMama--You had some fantastic points and I can see how you're ticked about UC if you are someone who has actually done real research and soul searching.  You can still hold your beliefs while admitting that there are some, and maybe a minority, of posts on the UC forum that are downright dangerous and continue to be perpetuated by die-hard UC advocates (no pun intended.)  An impressive rant, indeed, as someone else mentioned.  I do think though that you have a real double standard when it comes to some of the judgements you made about things other than UC. 

 


Hi APToddlerMama, thank you for speaking to me with such a mellow tone even though I was being crazy and angry. I agree that there have been women who have encouraged what I would consider "dangerously uneducated" women who were planning to UC....but I can honestly say that in each and every one of those cases, other hardcore UC mamas have stepped up and said "Actually, I think this sounds realllly yucky and I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to seek immediate help. Don't mess around and end up really sorry" - UC at all costs cannot be the mantra....but "UC should be frowned upon" shouldn't be the mantra either. Go to a mainstream forum and watch as hordes of women sit around and talk about homebirthers like they are baby killers "Homebirth is so dangerous, why would anyone take that risk when they don't need to" - these women clearly don't understand the desire to homebirth. Why do I have to face that same judgement here on MDC from homebirthing mamas? "UC is so dangerous, why would anyone take that risk when they don't need to" - these women clearly don't understand the desire to UC.....it's the exact same level of ignorance.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Maedze View Post




Wow.   Yes, I am a person that supports seatbelt laws.  The fact that you clearly intended that to be an insult is making me laugh.  Or, at least it would, if I weren't so absolutely appalled at your callous and self-absorbed words in regards to babies who have suffered and died because of UC.  

Yes, you're absolutely right, I don't believe that your super-duper special experience trumps a baby's right (as I said, I have never posted in the UC forum, or did you just miss that?) to not be put at risk.   I have read the UC forum and seen such horrifying displays of ignorance about basic bodily functions and neglect that I've gasped out loud.    What's making me want to cry is that you aren't even pretending this is anything about your selfish needs to do what you want....suffering and dying babies are just, well, a side effect.  As long as you get your perfect UC birth.  Holy crow.  

 

 

 

 

These types of comments, suggesting that I think my "super duper special experience" trumps my babies right not to be put at risk is so cold at it's core...imagine that, how very very cold a statement that is to make about a person. Would you ever say that to my face? Do you realize that I would argue with someone until I passed out if they ever came up to YOU and said that to YOU about YOUR homebirthing?? How come I"M not entitled to the same choice when it comes to MY birth. Because it's not YOUR choice and YOU wouldn't feel comfortable with it. So then, next time I see someone who thinks the hospital is best attacking a homebirthin' mama...that HB mama is on her own, right? NO - because in MY WORLD all of us mamas have to stand together for BIRTH CHOICE...NOT "Birth Choice (so long as that choice involves a certified birth worker)".

 

RE: Seatbelt laws. We shouldn't even go down this road. It's off topic and I'm BTDT. I just end up cross eyed. Suffice it to say, your political leanings and MINE aresooooo far apart. I respect yours. But please don't be petitioning my law makers to sign mandates that dictate how I should live my life.
 

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maedze View Post

Oh, as far as Avery'smama being rude, well, yes, she was, but I've been around the block a few times and can handle a little rudeness.  It doesn't phase me.  Plus, she's so obviously off the reservation that she could probably tell me to go to do something anatomically impossible to myself and I wouldn't do much more than blink and ask for a diagram.     As someone who doesn't need heavy-handed moderation, I'm perfectly comfortable looking past the rudeness, to the actual content of her words, which is far, far more disturbing than her rude language. 


 

My apologies again for the intense rudeness. I'm so sorry you were disturbed by my words...in my anger I did a lousy job explaining where I was coming from. If in my first response in this post, I have not shown you that I'm not really a monster baby-hater and cleared up some of what I percieved to be misconceptions about my belief system, my apologies again for your distress at my views, I'm sorry we do not see eye to eye.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xy View Post




When people set themselves up to become human projectiles that may injure me or my family, it's my business.

 


Oh. Does this mean that you support seatbelt laws because you are afraid that you will one day be walking down the street and will be struck and injured or, worse, killed by a body as it is flying out of a car that has been in an accident? Or, that you will be on the road driving, someone close to you on the road will be in an accident and that their body will fly from their vehicle, strike your vehicle and cause you to get in an accident as well? I'm not being snarky, I've actually got another browser window open and am looking all over the internet for information about this "injury by human projectiles" - but I can't find it. None of these "why we need seatbelt laws" activists group seem to be picking up on the "human projectile" risk associated with driving sans seatbelt...they only cite things like "injuries caused by not wearing a seatbelt cost lives and taxpayers money, blah blah blah" - but see, I don't believe in taxes and also respect your right to behave foolishly and die...soooo I'm still not sold on the seatbelt laws. Or, really, any law but natural law...which worked for a REALLY long time before the type of government construct we live in today came along and tried to nanny state us into a world of tiny boxes and little perfect houses, all in a row. It's been many many hundreds of years (thousands, even) since kings and presidents and senators, etc have been forcing this idea that we are not capable of governing ourselves even in the smallest areas of our lives....that idea is a false one. Small groups of people deciding they want to live a certain way is good. Massive groups of people being told by small groups of people "this is how you will live, we will hunt you down and make you pay if you do not follow these gobs and gobs of laws we write....oh, plus, spend all your time pushing paper in an office and paying us taxes so we can wage constant war on other people and support businesses that kill our earth and make sure congressmen have excellent benefits packages" - that is what we live in. It is not good for our souls.

 

But the beauty of life is, I could be wrong, and it's all going to be okay anyway.

 

 

 

I'm sorry again for yesterday. I have such intense anger management issues when I'm online. I have to cop to that and I need to really take action to curb the behavior.  I think it's the lack of human connection because when I debate in real life, I'm very respectful and completely enjoy the exchange and I don't get angry like this AT ALL. I think the lack of a human face, registering understanding, etc makes me go from "defensive" to "WILDLY out of control" in just about a split seconds time. Again, peace to everyone, I'm embarrassed at my behavior and sorry for it. hide.gifbag.gifnamaste.gif

 

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#243 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 08:42 AM
 
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I don't like the minimal moderation. If I want to see snarky, backbiting, mean , negative comments and mainstream opinions I  can go to a multitude of other parenting forums. Pretty much all of the other parenting forums are literally full of snark and judgement.  Mothering used to be a safe haven from all of that, a place of civility and thoughtful opinions. but I am seeing a lot of snarky negative comments on the forums and was wondering what had changed. Now I know. As far as I know there is no other forum quite like what the old MDC used to be, It makes me sad. Lately I have seen attacks against those of us that choose not to vaccinate, and support for those that put academic pressure on babies to learn to read,  among other things, and I am wondering where it all ends? What is next? Formula ads? CIO techniques? How to best spank your unruly baby?  Mothering is changing and it's not for the best. What happened?  Makes me sad.  greensad.gif

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#244 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 08:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AverysMomma View Post


Oh. Does this mean that you support seatbelt laws because you are afraid that you will one day be walking down the street and will be struck and injured or, worse, killed by a body as it is flying out of a car that has been in an accident? Or, that you will be on the road driving, someone close to you on the road will be in an accident and that their body will fly from their vehicle, strike your vehicle and cause you to get in an accident as well? I'm not being snarky, I've actually got another browser window open and am looking all over the internet for information about this "injury by human projectiles" - but I can't find it. None of these "why we need seatbelt laws" activists group seem to be picking up on the "human projectile" risk associated with driving sans seatbelt...they only cite things like "injuries caused by not wearing a seatbelt cost lives and taxpayers money, blah blah blah" - but see, I don't believe in taxes and also respect your right to behave foolishly and die...soooo I'm still not sold on the seatbelt laws. Or, really, any law but natural law...which worked for a REALLY long time before the type of government construct we live in today came along and tried to nanny state us into a world of tiny boxes and little perfect houses, all in a row. It's been many many hundreds of years (thousands, even) since kings and presidents and senators, etc have been forcing this idea that we are not capable of governing ourselves even in the smallest areas of our lives....that idea is a false one. Small groups of people deciding they want to live a certain way is good. Massive groups of people being told by small groups of people "this is how you will live, we will hunt you down and make you pay if you do not follow these gobs and gobs of laws we write....oh, plus, spend all your time pushing paper in an office and paying us taxes so we can wage constant war on other people and support businesses that kill our earth and make sure congressmen have excellent benefits packages" - that is what we live in. It is not good for our souls.

 

But the beauty of life is, I could be wrong, and it's all going to be okay anyway.


Averysmomma, I think we could be great friends after all ;)
 

 


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#245 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 09:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jammomma View Post

I don't like the minimal moderation. If I want to see snarky, backbiting, mean , negative comments and mainstream opinions I  can go to a multitude of other parenting forums. Pretty much all of the other parenting forums are literally full of snark and judgement.  Mothering used to be a safe haven from all of that, a place of civility and thoughtful opinions. but I am seeing a lot of snarky negative comments on the forums and was wondering what had changed. Now I know. As far as I know there is no other forum quite like what the old MDC used to be, It makes me sad. Lately I have seen attacks against those of us that choose not to vaccinate, and support for those that put academic pressure on babies to learn to read,  among other things, and I am wondering where it all ends? What is next? Formula ads? CIO techniques? How to best spank your unruly baby?  Mothering is changing and it's not for the best. What happened?  Makes me sad.  greensad.gif


The reason for what you saw as a perfect MDC was because it was a huge facade, hiding people's real personalities and beliefs behind way too many rules, making it impossible for any genuine conversation to exist. Why would you even WANT to converse with a bunch of phonies? It's so nut.gif to say that if people are allowed to speak their minds and have any type of dispute that it's going to lead to formula ads and CIO techniques. A seriously disturbed stretch in my NSHO. 

 

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#246 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AverysMomma View Post

 


Oh. Does this mean that you support seatbelt laws because you are afraid that you will one day be walking down the street and will be struck and injured or, worse, killed by a body as it is flying out of a car that has been in an accident? Or, that you will be on the road driving, someone close to you on the road will be in an accident and that their body will fly from their vehicle, strike your vehicle and cause you to get in an accident as well? I'm not being snarky, I've actually got another browser window open and am looking all over the internet for information about this "injury by human projectiles" - but I can't find it.

 


Those are possibilities. It's also possible for a passenger to become a projectile and further interfere with the driver's ability to regain control of the vehicle. No, I'm sure you won't find statistics and I don't feel like looking for them. A friend and co-worker of mine died three years ago from a brain injury that was caused by his body leaving the driver's seat during a crash and his head smashing against the passenger side door. If anyone had been riding with him, that person might have been injured by the airborne body, as well.

 

 

None of these "why we need seatbelt laws" activists group seem to be picking up on the "human projectile" risk associated with driving sans seatbelt...they only cite things like "injuries caused by not wearing a seatbelt cost lives and taxpayers money, blah blah blah" - but see, I don't believe in taxes and also respect your right to behave foolishly and die...soooo I'm still not sold on the seatbelt laws.

 

 

Well, whether you support taxes or not...you're still likely paying them. Don't you care how that money is spent?

 

 

Small groups of people deciding they want to live a certain way is good.

 

 

Like Billy Clanton and his Cowboy cronies?

 

 

 

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#247 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 09:23 AM
 
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What do I think of the moderation of MDC? I'm completely baffled, to be honest. On one hand, you're allowing threads to devolve wildly, and on the other hand you're flat-out revoking people's memberships for being frank when discussing their feelings about Mothering's handling of certain recent events. So what do I think of the moderation? I think it's got multiple personality disorder or something right now. 


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#248 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AverysMomma View Post

I'm sorry again for yesterday. I have such intense anger management issues when I'm online. I have to cop to that and I need to really take action to curb the behavior.  I think it's the lack of human connection because when I debate in real life, I'm very respectful and completely enjoy the exchange and I don't get angry like this AT ALL. I think the lack of a human face, registering understanding, etc makes me go from "defensive" to "WILDLY out of control" in just about a split seconds time. Again, peace to everyone, I'm embarrassed at my behavior and sorry for it. hide.gifbag.gifnamaste.gif

 


I admire you for being able to verbalize this.  I think this is an issue that many people have.  They see a screen in front of them, and they say the things that they would normally only mutter to themselves before putting a respectful bow on it to have a conversation with a real person.  Thank you for coming back to admit that you're working on this.  Not everyone has the maturity to do so.  You obviously have a relationship with people on the board who are able to gently call you out on your attitude, and you are able to respond to that with maturity, but not everyone can.  That is the point of having some moderation, so that when we lose control, we have someone designated to call us out on it.  I hope we can all respond with as much maturity.

 

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#249 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 09:44 AM
 
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Yes, I care very much how my tax dollars are spent...and if we took a quarter of the dollars that wash through the Military Industrial Complex each year and let it pay for the injuries sustained by people who both lack the means to pay for their own medical care AND find themselves the unwitting victims of Human Projectile Injury Scenarios, we would have a SERIOUS padding in our HPIS fund. I can think of a solid few TRILLION dollars a year that, if it had to be spent, I would rather see going to a fund to ease the pain of HPIS survivors and the families of those left behind.

 

I also believe that there are much more serious causes of injury and fatality the world over. You want to talk about "let's save lives" - where is the legislation that says "People injured and killed when predator drones strike their neighborhoods while they are sleeping at night, who don't have the money to pay for their medical expenses or bury their dead, are costing tax payers money in the way of foreign aide that we send to their governments to help cover the cost of our unquenchable thirst for foreign civilian blood....let's make Don't Strike Civilian Neighborhoods With Predator Drone laws a must in every country in the woooorld!!!" YAY! Think of all the tax dollars and lives we'd save then.

 

All joking aside, I'm extremely sorry about the loss of your friend. I've lost someone to a car accident and the suddenness and violence of the ending for that friend left a very sore spot on many people hearts for a long time. But please do not be confused....legislators pass seatbelt laws, because in recent years, state budgets are hurting more and more...any time they can give an officer of the law another reason to write you a ticket (generate revenue for the state) they are going to do it. Do you even KNOW how much money has been added to the budgets of states that enact seatbelt laws? It's incredible. I simply do not think the risk posed by my not wearing a seatbelt is serious enough to other people that I could ever support it being mandated. It reminds me of people who say that vaccination should be mandatory for ALL children because me not vaxxing MY kids puts their kids at unreasonable risk. We all jump and scream when they try to mandate that....let's look at the rate of speed with which every corner of our lives is being watched and legislated to pieces and project that out fifty years...hhmmmm...
 

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Like Billy Clanton and his Cowboy cronies?
 


Billy Clanton was a product of the very systems you seek to prove as the better model by reminding us all of his depravity. "He was terrible, he was a product of our society...see, see how much we need to live by our current societal/political norms!!" - You cannot point to a group of people living within, and at the same time against, the system I'm describing and try and suggest that they are an example of what happens when the system we live in is abandoned. That is the classic line of thinking among those who would say that we humans are incapable of governing ourselves. They always point to criminals and outlaws, it always amazes me.

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#250 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 09:53 AM
 
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Lovingmommyhood,  your post totally exmplifies what I am talking about. You just called my opinion "seriously disturbed"! What a yucky mean thing to say to me. Blech.

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#251 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by limabean View Post

What do I think of the moderation of MDC? I'm completely baffled, to be honest. On one hand, you're allowing threads to devolve wildly, and on the other hand you're flat-out revoking people's memberships for being frank when discussing their feelings about Mothering's handling of certain recent events. So what do I think of the moderation? I think it's got multiple personality disorder or something right now. 



Being frank when discussing your feelings does not give you the right to attack, abuse, namecall and harass members or this website. Those are the members who will have their accounts closed and I make no apologies for that. 

 

We will be looking more closely at threads. You say we allow them to devolve wildy. You assume that we are aware and let them devolve. We have asked members to report threads of issue. We act on reports. Obviously that is not working. And obviously some members abuse the lighter moderation approach we have taken and work directly to "devolve" discussions even to the point of driving new members away. An example which will also earn some member's the loss of their accounts: http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1317712/should-i-have-sex-with-my-ex-advice-please

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#252 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 10:08 AM
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I vote that less is more


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#253 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 10:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post





Being frank when discussing your feelings does not give you the right to attack, abuse, namecall and harass members or this website. Those are the members who will have their accounts closed and I make no apologies for that. 

 

We will be looking more closely at threads. You say we allow them to devolve wildy. You assume that we are aware and let them devolve. We have asked members to report threads of issue. We act on reports. Obviously that is not working. And obviously some members abuse the lighter moderation approach we have taken and work directly to "devolve" discussions even to the point of driving new members away. An example which will also earn some member's the loss of their accounts: http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1317712/should-i-have-sex-with-my-ex-advice-please


I am so disillusioned by this whole thing.  I can't believe that you banned honest, longstanding members because you didn't like the bite of their discourse.  Frankly that is NOT a natural concequece of their heartfelt critique.

 

I'm seriously shaken.

 

 

 

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#254 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 10:11 AM
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What I meant to say is that less moderation is what I would vote for. It appears that many people can and do respond appropriately. Don't let a few bad apples ruin it for the whole barrel.


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#255 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 10:17 AM
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Wow so I have sent tbd better part if the day catching up with MDC and I have to say.....WOW.




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#256 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 10:18 AM
 
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Wait, wait wait.....am I to understand that Hillymum, HollyBear and mimim are banned???? I mean, that thread is disgusting and definitely not MDC-okay....but I know I've said FAR more inflammatory things (even if it was in an actual debate and because I was being overly-passionate) and KNOW that I didn't get more than a warning and stern talking to...BANNED?

 

jaw.gif

 

Can someone please clarify and tell me that these ladies are still members and not banned??


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#257 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 10:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post





Being frank when discussing your feelings does not give you the right to attack, abuse, namecall and harass members or this website. Those are the members who will have their accounts closed and I make no apologies for that. 

 

We will be looking more closely at threads. You say we allow them to devolve wildy. You assume that we are aware and let them devolve. We have asked members to report threads of issue. We act on reports. Obviously that is not working. And obviously some members abuse the lighter moderation approach we have taken and work directly to "devolve" discussions even to the point of driving new members away. An example which will also earn some member's the loss of their accounts: http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1317712/should-i-have-sex-with-my-ex-advice-please



 

Were some of the posts already removed? It looked disjointed and hard to read. Poor OP, though.

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#258 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl View Post

I am so disillusioned by this whole thing.  I can't believe that you banned honest, longstanding members because you didn't like the bite of their discourse.  Frankly that is NOT a natural concequece of their heartfelt critique.

 

I'm seriously shaken.

 

 

I disagree. There are many members giving quite a bite with their words but they do so with civil discourse. The behavior of the others is not excusable and it won't be tolerated. As we look more an more at the threads these members have participated in we find it is way beyond this particular issue we are discussing and has filled their participation in many discussions. We don't need that sort of membership. 

 

 

Removal of membership for severe violation is exactly what our User Agreement stipulates:

 

 

To support the open exchange of ideas and opinions, Mothering.com members are required to treat one other with respect and courtesy at all times. MDC Members agree not to:

 

  • post copyrighted material without permission (see Copyright guidelines)
  • upload or link to profane or sexually explicit text and images
  • harass, impersonate, intimidate or defame another member, group or entity
  • submit content that discriminates on the basis of age, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, race, religion or disability
  • post commercial messages/promote a specific company, product or service without MDC approval
  • post or delete content with the intention of disrupting discussions or violating the guidelines above.

 

Mothering reserves the right to remove member accounts that violates these guidelines; if we determine that a member violates these guidelines on a recurring basis, we may permanently revoke access to our service.

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#259 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 10:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JMJ View Post

and let us talk about our commonly-held religious biases (abortion, homosexuality, gender issues, circumcision, even discipline practices) in clearly-defined religious support threads.  Absolutely, I want to trust people to act like adults here.  It's just that online, a few people sometimes come into a thread, and they post the same sort of name-calling over and over and over again and clog the thread with their posts, creating a very hostile environment.



ITA, MDC has a choice going forward, they can focus on the shared AP and NFL issues that people across political spectrums value like UC, questioning vaxing, BFing, intactivism and GD among others while allowing diversity of opinion on the political and religious issues you stated like abortion, homosexuality and gender issues or they can continue to align themselves with the liberal progressive political causes they have so far.

 

There are a lot of people outside the liberal left that support the AP and NFL lifestyle, and they don't have a place here, because only one side of these political issues are allowed to be discussed and they are even tactically supported. Of course the third option would be stick to the core AP/NFL topics shared by both and drop all the controversial stuff, but I'm more on the side of opening up discussion than closing it down. 

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#260 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 10:24 AM
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I have to comment on this.  MDC has never been that.  Never.  I've been here since 03 and I cannot tell you how many times I saw women being made to feel like crap by other posters here.  I myself have been on the receiving end more than once.  There are more than a few posters who love to come along and tell you how "Yer doin it rong!" 

 

I had to wean my twins cold turkey at 22 mo.  I posted about the meds I needed to go on, how I was weaning and promptly got my ass handed to me.  I posted once asking about getting a vax while I was sick.  Again, I got my ass handed to me.  I wasn't asking for info on why the vax was horrible, I was asking if I could get it with a cold.  It turned into a debate that got cleaned up and moved.  

 

Two weeks ago, I was participating in a TAO thread.  I shared, within that heated thread about my son dying.  Someone took it upon themselves to have the thread shut down- because of what I posted and then, she started a thread about my loss.  MY SON!  MY CHOICE ON HOW AND WHERE TO SHARE HIS DEATH!  How dare she?  That is the kind of moderation that sucks ass.

 

I am a grown woman.  I have parents who I can turn to for guidance and who can still help me learn.  I do not need moderators on a board telling me to play nice, or what I can say or how I can say it.  I do not need parenting.  And I sure as hell don't need my voice and thoughts silenced.  

 

 

 


I would like to clarify on this one.  The closing of the thread and your post about your son happened very close to the same time.  The thread was closed while we discussed it, and your post was one of the reasons we reopened it, so that people could respond to you there, where you had posted.  The thread that was begun to let folks know about your son was started by a member, not a moderator.  I'm sorry that this happened. If you wish that thread to be removed, I think that is fair, as you said that is yours to share and discuss. I am so very sorry about your son, and apologize the the closing happened at the same time, and people were not able to respond to you quickly. hug.gif

 


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#261 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 10:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AverysMomma View Post

Wait, wait wait.....am I to understand that Hillymum, HollyBear and mimim are banned???? I mean, that thread is disgusting and definitely not MDC-okay....but I know I've said FAR more inflammatory things (even if it was in an actual debate and because I was being overly-passionate) and KNOW that I didn't get more than a warning and stern talking to...BANNED?

 

jaw.gif

 

Can someone please clarify and tell me that these ladies are still members and not banned??

 

Ornery too.
And Ldavis24.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post



 

I disagree. There are many members giving quite a bite with their words but they do so with civil discourse. The behavior of the others is not excusable and it won't be tolerated. As we look more an more at the threads these members have participated in we find it is way beyond this particular issue we are discussing and has filled their participation in many discussions. We don't need that sort of membership. 

 

 

 

dizzy.gif

 

OOooh I have a new siggy!  Peace out.

 

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#262 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmeyrick View Post


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#263 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 10:31 AM
 
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This is all really confusing.  I am one who has said I am all for less moderation, except that there has to be some middle ground between not even getting a warning and then all of a sudden being banned.  I know I will miss a lot of members who have either had their accounts closed or who decided to leave MDC. 

 

I'm just sad how things are going down. :(  Maybe it's better for everyone involved to step back and take a break for a while. 


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#264 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 10:31 AM
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Yes, I care very much how my tax dollars are spent...and if we took a quarter of the dollars that wash through the Military Industrial Complex each year....

 

You said that you are against seat belt laws, and you dislike that supporters of the law often say that injuries and deaths caused by not wearing seat belts cost taxpayers money. If seat belt laws were repealed, and injuries and deaths did, indeed, cause taxpayers more money, that would not have anything to do with whether money is being inappropriately spent elsewhere.

 

and let it pay for the injuries sustained by people who both lack the means to pay for their own medical care AND find themselves the unwitting victims of Human Projectile Injury Scenarios, we would have a SERIOUS padding in our HPIS fund. I can think of a solid few TRILLION dollars a year that, if it had to be spent, I would rather see going to a fund to ease the pain of HPIS survivors and the families of those left behind.

 

Where would this money come from if there were no taxes? There are mamas on MDC who use government assistance. Are you against food stamps? Medicaid/Medicare?

 

I also believe that there are much more serious causes of injury and fatality the world over.

 

This sort of ad-hoc reasoning doesn't negate that auto-related injuries/fatalities may increase with more unrestrained motorists.

 


But please do not be confused....legislators pass seatbelt laws, because in recent years, state budgets are hurting more and more...any time they can give an officer of the law another reason to write you a ticket (generate revenue for the state) they are going to do it.

 

You're preaching to the choir, and I'm not confused. They don't call this state Rogue Island for nothing. However, whether money/funding is connected to seat belt legislation has little to do with my concern for human projectiles, which you scoff at but which I have seen more than my share of when I was an EMT.

 

Billy Clanton was a product of the very systems you seek to prove as the better model by reminding us all of his depravity.  

 

Um, no. He was raised in Arizona Territory....a.k.a. The Wild West. He was behaving immorally and trampling others before the law arrived there.

 

I feel like we're hijacking the thread and I have homework to do, so I think I'll end my contribution to this portion of the thread now.

 

 

 

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#265 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 10:31 AM
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double-post

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#266 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 10:35 AM
 
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Mothering went downhill when they tried to pander to the mainstream crowd. this was always a place of safety and mutual respect for mothers who's parenting ideals were not that of the typical mainstream parent. If those ideals of natural parenting that this magazine was based on back when it was started were more closely adhered to, Mothering magazine might have still been in print. Instead its readers have gone elsewhere.

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#267 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 10:40 AM
 
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I've been reading here since 2008, although I'm much more of a reader than a contributor at this point. In the time that I've been reading, I have yet to see a style of moderation that I think is appropriately moderate. When I came here, the moderation was suffocatingly strict and rigid, to the point where it seemed to stifle intellectual dialogue. Recently, moderation moved in the complete opposite direction, turning these forums into a crazy free for all. The lack of oversight and good judgement has allowed these forums to tilt too far toward the "mainstream" and the lack of moderation, combined with really sleazy marketing/traffic building techniques, has turned the forums into a snarky, hostile and unwelcoming place. I cannot put my finger on the exact cause, but I fear that MDC has forever lost the essence of what made it such a uniquely wonderful place. 

 

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Totally agree.  And to the poster who stated that all the UC mamas have done their research and soul searching... I'm sorry, but that is just obviously not true, or the "research" they are looking at is majorly flawed.  There have been some scarily uninformed posters on the UC board who have been encouraged to continue with UC despite it being obviously dangerous in the situations they described and asked for advice on. One particular UC advocate who has since supposedly left these boards chronically gave out terrible, dangerous information.  She followed up any comments voicing concern about UC with straight up attacks on the poster, including skilled midwives and others who have been UC supporters or had UCs themself.   I'm not going to sit back and shut up when that is the kind of "research" some of these mamas are doing.

 

 


One thing I would like to see here with respect to moderation is a greater acceptance of empirical research. I cannot comment on the UC board in particular because it is of no interest to me. However, I have sat back in horror many times as I watched grossly misinformed posters be allowed to present dangerous ideas as if they were scientifically proven facts. If ever there were a time and place to intervene and control a discussion, this would be the it. I shudder to think of what could happen if an AIDS patient stumbled upon the thread about NaCIO having the ability to cure AIDS and decided to give it a try?  What if an HIV+ mother saw Christine Maggiore on the cover of Mothering  and decided that she too was going to take up AIDS Denialism and refuse treatment for her HIV+ child? I am absolutely for the presentation of differing ideas, opinions, and theories, but there needs to be greater oversight in allowing downright false and negligent discussion be presented as fact.  Just because MDC has absolved itself from any legal responsibility pertaining to "medical" advice given out on this board, does not exemplify it from having a moral and ethical obligation to protect the community as a whole. Allowing the wholesale promulgation of outright lies and dangerous practices is a grave mistake. 

 


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#268 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 10:42 AM
 
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I would like to clarify on this one.  The closing of the thread and your post about your son happened very close to the same time.  The thread was closed while we discussed it, and your post was one of the reasons we reopened it, so that people could respond to you there, where you had posted.  The thread that was begun to let folks know about your son was started by a member, not a moderator.  I'm sorry that this happened. If you wish that thread to be removed, I think that is fair, as you said that is yours to share and discuss. I am so very sorry about your son, and apologize the the closing happened at the same time, and people were not able to respond to you quickly. hug.gif

 

The person who started the new thread sent me a message on another forum I am on telling me she had requested it closed.  She then took it upon herself to start a new thread.  If I had wanted it announced in a new thread, I would have done so.  As for removing it, please don't.  I may be upset about how it was done, but the heartfelt words of kindness that are there should stay.  Those who reached out to me did so out of compassion.  Based on what went down on the other forum, I cannot say the same about what transpired with the closing and then the new thread.  Despite that, it should stay.  

 


 

 

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#269 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 10:45 AM
 
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People came here to learn and be supported about AP practices... it should stay that way. I think it's okay to have a mission statement, and I think it's okay to uphold it.

 

 


 

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#270 of 612 Old 06-17-2011, 11:04 AM
 
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What do I think of the moderation of MDC? I'm completely baffled, to be honest. On one hand, you're allowing threads to devolve wildly, and on the other hand you're flat-out revoking people's memberships for being frank when discussing their feelings about Mothering's handling of certain recent events. So what do I think of the moderation? I think it's got multiple personality disorder or something right now. 



This is kind of how I am feeling too. I am really confused as to what is happening. Is there something big that I missed?

 

I can tell from the continuity of the threads that posts are missing and obviously people in here are getting really upset. Makes me scared to share my opinion (if that is even what this is about anymore, I'm so lost) for fear of doing something that will get me in trouble. I do think it is sad though that members (myself included) are afraid to ask questions. Like I said, maybe I missed something huge (I do tend to be naive) but it kind of seems like we are being asked to share our thoughts and then when enough people have done, everyone is in trouble for discussing what has already been discussed.

 

I don't know if that makes any sense...I'm sure my confusion is not translating very clearly.

 

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