is there a SAHM forum? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#61 of 232 Old 11-11-2004, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
AJP
 
AJP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: land of the fruits and nuts
Posts: 1,853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Those of you considering ditching MDC over this issue, if you find another forum you like, will you let us know? Seems like each time I've found an online forum I like, populated by thinking people who can have a reasonable discussion, something happens - it goes offline, or turns too commercial, or gets taken over by trolls or people who want to argue just for the sake of arguing, and posting becomes an emotional burden instead of an outlet for discussion (in which case, what's the point?).

As for subjects I'd like to discuss with other SAHMs which don't really seem to fit into the other places here, in addition to those already suggested, the one that's been on my mind most lately is my feeling of being done a disservice by the feminist movement. I grew up identifying with the feminst ideals, but over the past decade or so I feel marginalized and looked down upon by the public voices of that movement because I'm "just" a mom and wife. Because I actually WANT to be a "housewife" (a dirty word, apparently), and enjoy it, not only do I not represent anything good, I'm actually counter-productive to gender equity, according to everything that comes my way via various sources as the position of the feminist movement. It really chaps my hide. I'd like to explore this issue with other SAHMs, but I'm pretty certain if I brought it up in Activism, W&P or TAO it would turn into a conflagration, and in FYT things seem to get buried so fast (is it bad manners to bump something every day?).

There is no secret ingredient.
AJP is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#62 of 232 Old 11-11-2004, 04:41 PM
 
Nurturing Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes, I also feel that the feminist movement has left us behind. I consider myself a feminist, but other feminists look down on me. The irony is that I feel more powerful and important as a SAHM than I ever have in the working world.

Couldn't we at least have a trial run for a SAHM forum? A subforum would be nice, too.
Nurturing Mama is offline  
#63 of 232 Old 11-11-2004, 05:34 PM
 
BlueStateMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New England
Posts: 3,329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would love to see a SAHM forum. I believe the other posters have done an excellent job enumerating the many issues that warrant such a place on MDC. I chose to leave my career as a litigator to stay home and raise DS. I honestly don't understand the reasoning that creating a SAHM would be somehow devisive to this community - there are so, SO many sub-forums already. Count me in as another supporter of the idea!!

Mama to DS (8) and DD (7) Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not "Every man for himself." And the London Underground is not a political movement.

 

BlueStateMama is offline  
#64 of 232 Old 11-11-2004, 06:02 PM
 
HelloKitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Next door to the possums
Posts: 11,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
AJP - I totally hear you on the feminism issue and it's something I've been struggling with as well. I don't know the answer but I know it does bother me. Is it possible to be a feminist and be a SAHM? I'm not so sure.

Great for nature studies! http://www.pleinairkids.com
Plein Air Kids - Handmade wooden art boxes for Budding Artists.
HelloKitty is offline  
#65 of 232 Old 11-11-2004, 06:43 PM
 
wasabi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 2,227
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
FWIW the last thread asking for a SAHM forum gave a long list of issues that might be pertinent to a SAHM forum and they were all basically dismissed as postable somewhere else. It seems that it's been pretty much decided that a SAHM forum is not necessary/desirable and so I think that's why we aren't getting any responses here. The issue has already been decided.
wasabi is offline  
#66 of 232 Old 11-11-2004, 07:27 PM
 
meowee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,773
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
well, the way I see it we need to either 1) leave, 2) continue lobbying/ asking-- maybe we should ask the mamas in activism if they have any ideas, or if they want to help take up our cause (we just want equal treatment afterall), or, 3) we just have to have the guts to say "SAHMs only please" in our thread titles. The problem is this attracts attention and might draw trollish remarks.

I have searched for a good SAHM forum-- and can't find one. All the ones I can find are for "new mommies" or are baby related (like MDC is in may ways). See, I think most of the mamas here stay home with their babes when they are young, but most intend to return to work.

I do not ever plan to return to work, barring a tragedy like death or divorce. I feel it is my moral/ spiritual/ karmic obligation to SH with my kids, to be the keeper of my home. This is not a waylay until they are old enough to be put in school.

I can see there are other mamas here in this thread who feel the same.
meowee is offline  
#67 of 232 Old 11-11-2004, 07:45 PM
 
musingmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 420
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yeah, I agree something needs to be done...
let me know if anyone finds another good forum,
I agree about the feminist issues raised- Isn't being a feminist doing what you truly want to do with your life, making your own choices, thus I am confused by the degradation and mockery of SAHMs, etc. Its like some feminists think we lost our power-- but I agree,- that I feel more powerful having gone through a natural homebirth and raising my son at home, more than I have previously working outside the house always working toward something else in the future. Not dropping him off anywhere to let other people deal with, or ignore, his development and curiosity- but meeting everything head on together, even if it is exhausting, at times frustrating, but joyous and heartwarming, albeit seen by most of society as me "staying home watching tv and eating bonbons!" argh- soo many issues, at least we are discussing them now, for the moment

homeschooling mama to 8 yr old biggrinbounce.gif with a new little one(5-5-2011) babyf.gif...  h20homebirth.gif

musingmama is offline  
#68 of 232 Old 11-11-2004, 07:52 PM
 
Shenjall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Canada!
Posts: 3,764
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
I do not ever plan to return to work, barring a tragedy like death or divorce. I feel it is my moral/ spiritual/ karmic obligation to SH with my kids, to be the keeper of my home. This is not a waylay until they are old enough to be put in school.
I totally agree! Our family keeps asking when I plan on going back to work...um..I AM working, this is my job. Its the best one I've ever had. Dh and I just dont get the idea of both of us working; kids in care; then being to tired to do anything except fight over the household chores.
I was very surprised when I couldnt find the sahp section - I thought for sure, of all sites, this one would have one.
Musingmama, ditto to your entire post!
equality for all!
Shenjall is offline  
#69 of 232 Old 11-11-2004, 08:00 PM
 
eclipse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Mexico
Posts: 7,440
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
we have a SAHP forum at www.incitefulmamas.com

it isn't very active because we tend to all just post int he main fourm, but any of you are welcome to come and use it!
eclipse is offline  
#70 of 232 Old 11-11-2004, 08:17 PM
 
Pigpen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: you're soaking in it
Posts: 1,781
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
FWIW the last thread asking for a SAHM forum gave a long list of issues that might be pertinent to a SAHM forum and they were all basically dismissed as postable somewhere else. It seems that it's been pretty much decided that a SAHM forum is not necessary/desirable and so I think that's why we aren't getting any responses here. The issue has already been decided.
I remember that, and many of the examples given truly could be posted elsewhere. However, many here have stated the need for a safe place to post about SAHP issues. I would hate to see a thread in TAO that was titled "SAHM's only please". That would likely offend others. The fact that so many of us feel marginalized in our society, proves the need for such a forum here. I won't even consider leaving MDC, there's nothing else like it, but a SAHP forum would be appreciated by many for sure. Please, pretty please?????

DS 12 DS 9 DD 6
Pigpen is offline  
#71 of 232 Old 11-11-2004, 09:41 PM
 
mum2sarah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 500
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I agree about the feminist thing. Did you guys ever read "Woman At Home?" My LLL was selling old books and I bought it for a buck--best buck I ever spent. It talks about how the feminist movement has, in some ways, done us SAHM a disservice in that it replaced the expectation that all moms would stay at home with the expectation that all moms would work, rather than truly liberating us to take the decision into our own hands. Scary thing is it was written BEFORE I WAS BORN, AND NOTHING'S SEEMED TO CHANGE, EVEN HERE AT MDC!!!
We're still alienated and made to feel like what we do is not legitimate, as demonstrated by the fact that WOHM's have their own legitimate forum, and we do not.... It's just not right, IMO!

Sarah born 04/03/02dust.gif , Ashley born 03/13/04homebirth.jpg,  Rigel born 09/10/11 nocirc.gif

mum2sarah is offline  
#72 of 232 Old 11-11-2004, 09:42 PM
 
mum2sarah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 500
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
oh, and as for what to do about it, I say we keep this thread going on and on and on and on, ad nauseum. Maybe eventually they'll grant us our wish just to shut us up!

Sarah born 04/03/02dust.gif , Ashley born 03/13/04homebirth.jpg,  Rigel born 09/10/11 nocirc.gif

mum2sarah is offline  
#73 of 232 Old 11-11-2004, 09:51 PM
 
rainbowmoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Vermont
Posts: 10,800
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yes I think we should persist

I am going to PM Cynthia..

anyone else with me?

Blissful Mama to DD-(5), DS-(6) and someone new due in November!
rainbowmoon is offline  
#74 of 232 Old 11-11-2004, 09:55 PM
 
Pigpen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: you're soaking in it
Posts: 1,781
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowmoon
anyone else with me?
In what sense? I'm confused (which is really easy these days...
)

DS 12 DS 9 DD 6
Pigpen is offline  
#75 of 232 Old 11-11-2004, 10:40 PM
 
mum2sarah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 500
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Ya'know come to think of it, even LLL's New Beginnings magazine finds a tactful way to include a SAHM column and a WOHM column to address questions and concerns. It doesn't seem to be divisive to me. Every issue they have a "Making it Work" column and a "Staying Home Instead" column. Only seems fair to me...

Sarah born 04/03/02dust.gif , Ashley born 03/13/04homebirth.jpg,  Rigel born 09/10/11 nocirc.gif

mum2sarah is offline  
#76 of 232 Old 11-11-2004, 10:53 PM
 
Nada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There's a SAHM board at http://www.wahmreview.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/index.php for those of you who might be interested.

Nada
Nada is offline  
#77 of 232 Old 11-11-2004, 11:07 PM
 
meowee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,773
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have found that the larger a forum gets, the unfriendlier it becomes.

I know that doesn't have much to do with there being no SAHM forum... but maybe it does?
meowee is offline  
#78 of 232 Old 11-11-2004, 11:22 PM
 
rainbowmoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Vermont
Posts: 10,800
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
just to calrify

I meant sending a PM to Cynthia about wanting a SAHM forum

Blissful Mama to DD-(5), DS-(6) and someone new due in November!
rainbowmoon is offline  
#79 of 232 Old 11-11-2004, 11:30 PM
 
Pigpen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: you're soaking in it
Posts: 1,781
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowmoon
just to calrify

I meant sending a PM to Cynthia about wanting a SAHM forum
Oh :LOL I think she's aware of this thread, and if not now, she soon will be. It's been alive for several days now.

DS 12 DS 9 DD 6
Pigpen is offline  
#80 of 232 Old 11-12-2004, 02:05 AM
 
Greensleeves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
F
Greensleeves is offline  
#81 of 232 Old 11-12-2004, 03:22 PM
 
Fluffy Peanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 432
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowmoon
*I feel it's demeaning there is no SAHM forum here. just as (most) of society devalues us as useless women who sit home watching tv all day and eating bon bons. : are we really less important, even here?
I also feel that it's demeaning and I'm starting to get really PO'd about it!! I mean, they're acting as if there is NO difference between staying at home, working at home and working out of the home!!
Fluffy Peanut is offline  
#82 of 232 Old 11-12-2004, 03:27 PM
 
Pigpen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: you're soaking in it
Posts: 1,781
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Does anyone else thing the term "stay at home mom" is a misnomer? For one...stay at home from what? It's as if to say, she stays home from work. Two, I don't *stay* home anyway. We actually do leave the house sometimes . You know how for a long time we here at MDC would say "uncircumcised" (penis)? Now we say intact? I'm trying to draw an analogy here but my daughters in my lap trying to help me type! Hopefully you get the point...more later!

DS 12 DS 9 DD 6
Pigpen is offline  
#83 of 232 Old 11-12-2004, 03:30 PM
 
Pigpen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: you're soaking in it
Posts: 1,781
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just realized my analogy could be taken out of context...I'm saying "uncircumcised" and "unworking" are both misnomers...am I making sense? :LOL

DS 12 DS 9 DD 6
Pigpen is offline  
#84 of 232 Old 11-12-2004, 03:38 PM
 
Fluffy Peanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 432
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That makes sense, Pigpen. Hmmm...we could say that we're "full-time moms", although that might offend WOHMs or WAHMs because they'd be like, "We're still moms even though we're working (for money) during the day" (which is true).
Fluffy Peanut is offline  
#85 of 232 Old 11-12-2004, 03:43 PM
 
Pigpen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: you're soaking in it
Posts: 1,781
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yep, I hear ya. BTW, I'm not saying working outside the home and circumcising are comparable. I think I should edit my original alalogy, now that I see so many holes in it. :LOL

DS 12 DS 9 DD 6
Pigpen is offline  
#86 of 232 Old 11-12-2004, 04:05 PM
 
meowee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,773
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I see no problem with housewife. But I know it rankles some. And househusband sounds fine to me too.

I really think the main difference between the SAHMs MDC thinks are the norm here and "us" is that there is the SAHM who stays home till her DC are three or kindergarten age... then they go back to work part time or full time. This kind of SAHM is very accepted, and even encouraged in some ways, by society.

The SAHM who is not accepted or encouraged is the mom who continues to not earn any income after her children are five and up.

I wonder how many women homeschool because they think it "justifies" their not earning income? Just a thought that went through my mind just now.

I'm just trying to point out that there should be no need for justification. But if a woman stays home long after her child is in school, eyebrows start to raise, and it's assumed as has been noted above, that such women must lead cushy lives with SUVs and an ample household income. It's not assumed that this is a profound and deep choice that comes from the heart, and a long-term choice that could cause a great deal of financial hardship, and a lowered standard of living, materialistically. But spritually it is a richer choice.

I can't tell you how many women I've met and know who went back to work not because they wanted to, but because they did not trust their husbands and didn't want to be financially dependant on them. The longer you stay out of the workforce, the more your chance at a good career suffers. The longer you stay home, the more dependant you become on your DH's income.

This is the antithesis of feminism.

Trust me, there are many times I look at my husband and I question my sanity for letting myself reach this point of financial dependancy on him. When I step back and look at it at arm's length, it's actually quite scary.
meowee is offline  
#87 of 232 Old 11-12-2004, 06:53 PM
 
laralou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: little house in the suburbs
Posts: 4,818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowee
I wonder how many women homeschool because they think it "justifies" their not earning income? Just a thought that went through my mind just now.
The women I know that don't want to go to work just have another baby when the youngest goes to "school".

Quote:
Originally Posted by meowee
I can't tell you how many women I've met and know who went back to work not because they wanted to, but because they did not trust their husbands and didn't want to be financially dependant on them. The longer you stay out of the workforce, the more your chance at a good career suffers. The longer you stay home, the more dependant you become on your DH's income.
A valid concern considering how many divorces happen.

I manage to keep my sanity by working out a plan for how I would support myself if dh and I split up that doesn't involve me working full-time away from my kids. It seems really cold to do it, but it makes me feel safe that if he did ever do something, I am not lost. I used to do the same thing as a single mama but about my job. I made a back up plan to make ends meet should I lose my job.
laralou is offline  
#88 of 232 Old 11-12-2004, 07:12 PM
 
musingmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 420
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yeah, interesting points-
I see some women do alot to justify their staying home after kids start preschool/kindergarten.... obssessively cleaning and organizing, etc. instead of allowing yourself time for your interests, time for you only . there is a lot of guilt involved. guilt has always been a powerful weapon to keep women "in their place"
and in this society it does come down to a financial situation.... money=power ... unfortunately.... (not real spiritual power of course- but it sure is hard to live without it and eat, have shelter, etc) I am not completely comfortable being finacially dependent on my husband. I do plan to work for myself in a few years for several reasons, mainly because of my artistic goals but also because of the financial independence thing. I wish our society was not like this, but there is reality to deal with. I agree with European countries that pay women who stay home raising their children, afterall, if you look at it from an Economic standpoint, stable kids make better productive members of society. Studies have shown that abused kids grow up and often continue the cycle of abuse and violence, neglected kids often act out and commit crimes... so, it only makes sense to me to pay women for the great work they do raising kids. But, in the US, this is seen as welfare, and Reagan provided a good target of disdain and loathing, describing welfare moms who have more and more kids so they can stay home, watch cable tv, eat gluttonlessy, drive a cadillac, etc. which was completely made up by the right -wing to fit their agenda of "starving the beast" (of social services)... but I will stop myslef from getting into a political discussion...

homeschooling mama to 8 yr old biggrinbounce.gif with a new little one(5-5-2011) babyf.gif...  h20homebirth.gif

musingmama is offline  
#89 of 232 Old 11-12-2004, 07:23 PM
 
laralou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: little house in the suburbs
Posts: 4,818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by musingmama
welfare moms who have more and more kids so they can stay home
I want to clarify that I wasn't talking about welfare mamas when I made my above comment (not that you are saying I was, but your post made me realize mine could be misinterpreted). I was talking about wealthy suburban moms who have another baby as soon as the youngest starts preschool (usually between 2 and 4).
laralou is offline  
#90 of 232 Old 11-12-2004, 08:14 PM
 
Shenjall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Canada!
Posts: 3,764
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
afterall, if you look at it from an Economic standpoint, stable kids make better productive members of society. Studies have shown that abused kids grow up and often continue the cycle of abuse and violence, neglected kids often act out and commit crimes... so, it only makes sense to me to pay women for the great work they do raising kids.
A very excellent and valid point....
And a simple one at that. But leave it to the government to not be able to see the forest for the trees....
p.s. I still want a sahp forum
Shenjall is offline  
Reply

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off