the suicide thread in TAO - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 28 Old 06-16-2005, 11:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
delicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: a country i can be proud of.
Posts: 3,940
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
what happened!

is she ok? i can't remember what the OP's name was and i wonder why on earth mothering can't host that sort of thread?
delicious is offline  
#2 of 28 Old 06-19-2005, 02:25 PM
Administrator
 
cynthia mosher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Arabia!
Posts: 38,887
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
We can't host it due to legal concerns. Suicide threads will be removed as soon as they are found and the poster given the advice to seek help from the appropriate authorities and community service resources.

cynthia mosher is online now  
#3 of 28 Old 06-19-2005, 02:29 PM
 
Ruthla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 47,599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
So if somebody posted "I'm having a rough time right now" it would be ok, as long as he/she didn't specifically mention suicidal thoughts?

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18, and Jack, 12
Ruthla is offline  
#4 of 28 Old 06-20-2005, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
delicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: a country i can be proud of.
Posts: 3,940
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
that stinks. i pm'd the mama but never heard back.

i wonder what legal concerns?
delicious is offline  
#5 of 28 Old 06-20-2005, 08:15 PM
 
Paddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Happy ;-)
Posts: 13,910
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
not an expert but it seems to me it would be a huge liability, opening mothering up to getting sued. if they "gave advice" and then it was discovered that the poster went through with it... as far as i know, mothering moderators aren't certified counselors..... hope the mama is okay. i didn't see the thread but sending out love anyway.

Ange. Mama to boys. Yup. All Boys. All Intact. A bunch of other NFL, crunchy credentials too.
Paddington is offline  
#6 of 28 Old 06-20-2005, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
delicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: a country i can be proud of.
Posts: 3,940
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thanks for clearing that up for me, ACP!
delicious is offline  
#7 of 28 Old 06-21-2005, 09:26 AM
 
Calidris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Liming in sweet T&T
Posts: 4,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It almost seems to me that there would be more liability involved in yanking away her only support in a moment of deep need

nothing more to say I guess :
Calidris is offline  
#8 of 28 Old 06-21-2005, 02:58 PM
 
Paddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Happy ;-)
Posts: 13,910
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
not necessarily as they referred her to people trained to help her. but i guess you could look at it that way. and then it would be classified as d**ned if you do, d**ned if you don't.....

so, change it up and say that it is the instance that someone's appendix burst and you were there but there is a pay phone a few steps away and an ambulance can be by quickly with people trained to help that person. do you try to plunge ahead and operate or do you call in reinforcements who can better help?

ya'll may not see the connection, but i think it is just one of those instances where you do the best you can....

Ange. Mama to boys. Yup. All Boys. All Intact. A bunch of other NFL, crunchy credentials too.
Paddington is offline  
#9 of 28 Old 06-21-2005, 03:52 PM
 
Ruthla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 47,599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
She also DID get a lot of resources in that thread- I personally posted suicide hotline phone number and website, as well as domestic violence resources. I'm hoping that she can't get online because she's receiving outside help right now (such as a hospital psych ward or a domestic violence shelter.)

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18, and Jack, 12
Ruthla is offline  
#10 of 28 Old 06-21-2005, 11:19 PM
 
meowee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,013
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I post on some non MDC forums where you are not even allowed to use the word "suicide." It is blocked out like a profanity. I think this is standard message board procedure.
meowee is offline  
#11 of 28 Old 06-21-2005, 11:29 PM
 
annettemarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the Restricted Section
Posts: 41,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I am not trying to be difficuly, but would someone be able to explain why it is more dangerous legally to host a thread about suicide than one about marijauna use to curb morning sickness, or unassisted childbirth, or drinking raw milk, or any of the other hundreds of thread topics that someone somewhere could conceive of as being dangerous?

Flowers, fairies, gardens, and rainbows-- Seasons of Joy: 10 weeks of crafts, handwork, painting, coloring, circle time, fairy tales, and more!
Check out the blog for family fun, homeschooling, books, simple living, and 6 fabulous children, including twin toddlers

annettemarie is offline  
#12 of 28 Old 06-21-2005, 11:36 PM
 
meowee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,013
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
annettemarie, I agree about the UC forum. I totally support the forum and the choice a woman makes about her birthing-- but this seems like a big liability to take on, esp. given that MDC has chosen not to take on other liabilities (like the defunct practitioner database). At the very least there should be some kind of disclaimer (last I checked there wasn't) on the UC forum about it "not replacing medical advice" or something legalese. I have read UC threads for years and it seems like once a year or so there is a fetal demise.

So anyway, I see your point. Again I do support the UC forum, but as you can probably tell I have a lot of lawyers in my family.

About the suicide thread though, I think there is just more precedent regarding this than there is for stuff like no vax or UC. I bet there have been lawsuits regarding carried out suicide threats made on forums, while I doubt there are any regarding no vax etc.
meowee is offline  
#13 of 28 Old 06-21-2005, 11:41 PM
 
annettemarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the Restricted Section
Posts: 41,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I'm all for UC (I don't want my PM box filling up!) I am just trying to understand what makes one topic too hot to handle, and not another.

Flowers, fairies, gardens, and rainbows-- Seasons of Joy: 10 weeks of crafts, handwork, painting, coloring, circle time, fairy tales, and more!
Check out the blog for family fun, homeschooling, books, simple living, and 6 fabulous children, including twin toddlers

annettemarie is offline  
#14 of 28 Old 06-21-2005, 11:42 PM
 
paquerette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Poconos
Posts: 6,798
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If we weren't allowed to talk about anything that anyone could conceive as dangerous, we wouldn't be left with much to talk about.
paquerette is offline  
#15 of 28 Old 06-21-2005, 11:43 PM
 
annettemarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the Restricted Section
Posts: 41,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Yeah, you better get that sword fight out of your signature, missy.

Flowers, fairies, gardens, and rainbows-- Seasons of Joy: 10 weeks of crafts, handwork, painting, coloring, circle time, fairy tales, and more!
Check out the blog for family fun, homeschooling, books, simple living, and 6 fabulous children, including twin toddlers

annettemarie is offline  
#16 of 28 Old 06-21-2005, 11:53 PM
 
paquerette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Poconos
Posts: 6,798
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hey hey! We use big clunky armor and padding and helmets and stuff, and everyone signs waivers of liability before they can play, and our swords can't be pokey, and...

Yeah, our group's combat stuff is regulated out teh wazoo. : One of the first things I think about when discussions on legal liability and sue-happiness and suchlike come up, actually.

I'm more worried about the sewing machine, actually. You know how many people sew through their fingers?

ETA: Do I detect sunburns and melanoma, and asphyxiation and allergy hazards from latex balloons in YOUR sig?
paquerette is offline  
#17 of 28 Old 06-22-2005, 12:51 AM
 
Kincaid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 487
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Just my opinion, but it seems a sound decision for MDC to not host space for dialogue about suicide. In that case, the whole point of the original poster is an intent to end their life. In the UC threads the intent is to give birth, hopefully complication free. The core intention of the two threads are diametrically opposite. One is to cause harm (to the self). The other to prevent harm (to the self and child).

Though I can understand fully the comment that hosting dialogue about medical decisions does open MDC to some measure of liability. I would agree with the suggestion for MDC to craft a well-written statement for the UC board saying that MDC is not liable and does not provide medical info etc and consult your health care provider for questions or concerns.
Kincaid is offline  
#18 of 28 Old 06-22-2005, 12:57 AM
 
rainbowmoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Vermont
Posts: 11,138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
why is it ok for this thread to be kept going then and not one from a mama directly asking for help?
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=302576

I am still worried about snailmama and hope she is ok. I have tried to PM her after the thread was removed and got no response.

Blissful Mama to DD-(5), DS-(6) and someone new due in November!
rainbowmoon is offline  
#19 of 28 Old 06-22-2005, 01:38 AM
 
tboroson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Honalee
Posts: 6,335
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Does anybody here know SnailMama's last name? I know her first name and the city and roughly the neighborhood where she lives... I'd really like to try to look her up and maybe give her a call.
tboroson is offline  
#20 of 28 Old 06-22-2005, 03:41 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Suburbian Sacramento
Posts: 4,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I didn't see the original thread but my heart goes out to the woman, regardless. Suicide is a seriousl, horrible thing and I can only hope she doesn't want to go through with it.
Talula Fairie is offline  
#21 of 28 Old 06-22-2005, 09:03 AM
 
amyjeans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: my fourth day
Posts: 2,564
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowee
At the very least there should be some kind of disclaimer (last I checked there wasn't) on the UC forum about it "not replacing medical advice" or something legalese. I have read UC threads for years and it seems like once a year or so there is a fetal demise.
Not to hijack the thread or start a riot- but from my experience, most UC mamas are very autonomous with their pregnancy/births etc so most would not even consider any loss of life a result from the MDC boards, or medical advice. Nor would they place blame on the MDC community that could cause any litigation.
Also, if a disclaimer were to go up, it should be on every pregnancy and birth forum. No need for prejudices.
And, for the record- UC deaths are the ones you hear about, but deaths occur with assisted births as well...hospital,homebirth, Midwife or Doula assisted. It's a shame that those losses are not as publicized as frequently as a UC loss. Perhaps if they were, the "stigma" that surrounds the UC concept would be eliminated.

My opinion about a suicide thread? If you are asking for help, you need it. And if help is needed, even that of just a cyber friend, the conversations could very well take place in PM- but suggesting the person seek help is all MDC can do, it can place many people in a difficult situation, one of helplessness because of the cyber environment we are in.
How about a list of resources for those in need as a sticky in the Health thread or something of that nature?
Lots of love

Mama to 5 babies. UCer, too!
amyjeans is offline  
#22 of 28 Old 06-23-2005, 12:57 AM
 
tboroson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Honalee
Posts: 6,335
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree that any UC mama wouldn't hold MDC liable for any troubles stemming from their UC... however, if the mama died, someone else might do some digging around and find that she was encouraged by folks here and decide to hold MDC accountable. Say, an investigator who was trying to drum up evidence to hold the husband accoutable... Just theoretical...
tboroson is offline  
#23 of 28 Old 06-23-2005, 04:00 AM
 
mamaverdi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 12,872
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
...states have been known to sue on behalf of babies, in spite of parents wishes.

Which could also happen in a suicide.

MamaVerdi
mamaverdi is offline  
#24 of 28 Old 06-23-2005, 04:27 AM
 
em&namama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think another point and why I can understand why is because with many of these other topics we are dealing with people who are at the very least thinking with a very clear mind. They are taking information and processing it as a competant adult. With someone who is suicidal you don't know what their true state is. I have never personally dealt with someone in real life who was seriously considering it but they say to immediately call for help. Doctors and hospitals cannot let you leave if you express suicidal thoughts that seem imminent.

What if a post puts her over the edge? What if there is communication through posts and all of a sudden she posts and says thanks all but it's too much...I'm going to go do it? It almost seems like it's protecting both sides. We all have down times and horrible times and it's nice to have support but I totally see why they would pull it.
em&namama is offline  
#25 of 28 Old 07-30-2005, 11:25 AM
 
Suzannah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So does anyone know how she is? All of this discussion is fine, but how is she?

HoneyFern

The Blog

Never let your schooling interfere with your education. ~Mark Twain~

Suzannah is offline  
#26 of 28 Old 07-31-2005, 12:29 AM
 
MoonJelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Eastwatch by the Sea
Posts: 1,569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Actually, I wouldn't think that there is a real risk of a legal suit against MDC for a number of reasons. However, professionals IRL are required by law to report illegal activity to the authorities. I am not sure anyone would want to be in the position of receiving information like this and not really be able to do anything about it (due to the annonimity online). So I guess you could make the leap that you wouldn't want to provide a forum for someone in this situation if you really weren't able to follow through.

{Partner to DH  and Former WOHM, now SAHM  to DD, DD , and DS } *** ***
MoonJelly is offline  
#27 of 28 Old 07-31-2005, 12:40 AM
 
AngelBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: New Brighton, MN
Posts: 20,388
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wondering how she is....

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

AngelBee is offline  
#28 of 28 Old 07-31-2005, 01:17 AM
 
StephandOwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 8,809
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelBee
Wondering how she is....
I did a quick search for her name and she has been on posting so she must be doing okay. Her last time on was a couple hours ago

Steph, DH Jason (1-1-11), DS Owen (10-3-03) and DS Kai (10-13-11)

StephandOwen is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off