the suicide thread in TAO - Mothering Forums

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Old 06-17-2005, 12:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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what happened!

is she ok? i can't remember what the OP's name was and i wonder why on earth mothering can't host that sort of thread?
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Old 06-19-2005, 03:25 PM
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We can't host it due to legal concerns. Suicide threads will be removed as soon as they are found and the poster given the advice to seek help from the appropriate authorities and community service resources.

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Old 06-19-2005, 03:29 PM
 
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So if somebody posted "I'm having a rough time right now" it would be ok, as long as he/she didn't specifically mention suicidal thoughts?

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Old 06-20-2005, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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that stinks. i pm'd the mama but never heard back.

i wonder what legal concerns?
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Old 06-20-2005, 09:15 PM
 
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not an expert but it seems to me it would be a huge liability, opening mothering up to getting sued. if they "gave advice" and then it was discovered that the poster went through with it... as far as i know, mothering moderators aren't certified counselors..... hope the mama is okay. i didn't see the thread but sending out love anyway.

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Old 06-20-2005, 11:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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thanks for clearing that up for me, ACP!
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Old 06-21-2005, 10:26 AM
 
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It almost seems to me that there would be more liability involved in yanking away her only support in a moment of deep need

nothing more to say I guess :
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Old 06-21-2005, 03:58 PM
 
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not necessarily as they referred her to people trained to help her. but i guess you could look at it that way. and then it would be classified as d**ned if you do, d**ned if you don't.....

so, change it up and say that it is the instance that someone's appendix burst and you were there but there is a pay phone a few steps away and an ambulance can be by quickly with people trained to help that person. do you try to plunge ahead and operate or do you call in reinforcements who can better help?

ya'll may not see the connection, but i think it is just one of those instances where you do the best you can....

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Old 06-21-2005, 04:52 PM
 
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She also DID get a lot of resources in that thread- I personally posted suicide hotline phone number and website, as well as domestic violence resources. I'm hoping that she can't get online because she's receiving outside help right now (such as a hospital psych ward or a domestic violence shelter.)

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 13(homeschooled)
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:19 AM
 
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I post on some non MDC forums where you are not even allowed to use the word "suicide." It is blocked out like a profanity. I think this is standard message board procedure.
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:29 AM
 
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I am not trying to be difficuly, but would someone be able to explain why it is more dangerous legally to host a thread about suicide than one about marijauna use to curb morning sickness, or unassisted childbirth, or drinking raw milk, or any of the other hundreds of thread topics that someone somewhere could conceive of as being dangerous?

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Old 06-22-2005, 12:36 AM
 
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annettemarie, I agree about the UC forum. I totally support the forum and the choice a woman makes about her birthing-- but this seems like a big liability to take on, esp. given that MDC has chosen not to take on other liabilities (like the defunct practitioner database). At the very least there should be some kind of disclaimer (last I checked there wasn't) on the UC forum about it "not replacing medical advice" or something legalese. I have read UC threads for years and it seems like once a year or so there is a fetal demise.

So anyway, I see your point. Again I do support the UC forum, but as you can probably tell I have a lot of lawyers in my family.

About the suicide thread though, I think there is just more precedent regarding this than there is for stuff like no vax or UC. I bet there have been lawsuits regarding carried out suicide threats made on forums, while I doubt there are any regarding no vax etc.
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:41 AM
 
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I'm all for UC (I don't want my PM box filling up!) I am just trying to understand what makes one topic too hot to handle, and not another.

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Old 06-22-2005, 12:42 AM
 
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If we weren't allowed to talk about anything that anyone could conceive as dangerous, we wouldn't be left with much to talk about.
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:43 AM
 
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Yeah, you better get that sword fight out of your signature, missy.

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Old 06-22-2005, 12:53 AM
 
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Hey hey! We use big clunky armor and padding and helmets and stuff, and everyone signs waivers of liability before they can play, and our swords can't be pokey, and...

Yeah, our group's combat stuff is regulated out teh wazoo. : One of the first things I think about when discussions on legal liability and sue-happiness and suchlike come up, actually.

I'm more worried about the sewing machine, actually. You know how many people sew through their fingers?

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Old 06-22-2005, 01:51 AM
 
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Just my opinion, but it seems a sound decision for MDC to not host space for dialogue about suicide. In that case, the whole point of the original poster is an intent to end their life. In the UC threads the intent is to give birth, hopefully complication free. The core intention of the two threads are diametrically opposite. One is to cause harm (to the self). The other to prevent harm (to the self and child).

Though I can understand fully the comment that hosting dialogue about medical decisions does open MDC to some measure of liability. I would agree with the suggestion for MDC to craft a well-written statement for the UC board saying that MDC is not liable and does not provide medical info etc and consult your health care provider for questions or concerns.
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Old 06-22-2005, 01:57 AM
 
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why is it ok for this thread to be kept going then and not one from a mama directly asking for help?
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=302576

I am still worried about snailmama and hope she is ok. I have tried to PM her after the thread was removed and got no response.

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Old 06-22-2005, 02:38 AM
 
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Does anybody here know SnailMama's last name? I know her first name and the city and roughly the neighborhood where she lives... I'd really like to try to look her up and maybe give her a call.
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Old 06-22-2005, 04:41 AM
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I didn't see the original thread but my heart goes out to the woman, regardless. Suicide is a seriousl, horrible thing and I can only hope she doesn't want to go through with it.
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Old 06-22-2005, 10:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meowee
At the very least there should be some kind of disclaimer (last I checked there wasn't) on the UC forum about it "not replacing medical advice" or something legalese. I have read UC threads for years and it seems like once a year or so there is a fetal demise.
Not to hijack the thread or start a riot- but from my experience, most UC mamas are very autonomous with their pregnancy/births etc so most would not even consider any loss of life a result from the MDC boards, or medical advice. Nor would they place blame on the MDC community that could cause any litigation.
Also, if a disclaimer were to go up, it should be on every pregnancy and birth forum. No need for prejudices.
And, for the record- UC deaths are the ones you hear about, but deaths occur with assisted births as well...hospital,homebirth, Midwife or Doula assisted. It's a shame that those losses are not as publicized as frequently as a UC loss. Perhaps if they were, the "stigma" that surrounds the UC concept would be eliminated.

My opinion about a suicide thread? If you are asking for help, you need it. And if help is needed, even that of just a cyber friend, the conversations could very well take place in PM- but suggesting the person seek help is all MDC can do, it can place many people in a difficult situation, one of helplessness because of the cyber environment we are in.
How about a list of resources for those in need as a sticky in the Health thread or something of that nature?
Lots of love

Mama to 5 babies. UCer, too!
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Old 06-23-2005, 01:57 AM
 
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I agree that any UC mama wouldn't hold MDC liable for any troubles stemming from their UC... however, if the mama died, someone else might do some digging around and find that she was encouraged by folks here and decide to hold MDC accountable. Say, an investigator who was trying to drum up evidence to hold the husband accoutable... Just theoretical...
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Old 06-23-2005, 05:00 AM
 
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...states have been known to sue on behalf of babies, in spite of parents wishes.

Which could also happen in a suicide.

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Old 06-23-2005, 05:27 AM
 
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I think another point and why I can understand why is because with many of these other topics we are dealing with people who are at the very least thinking with a very clear mind. They are taking information and processing it as a competant adult. With someone who is suicidal you don't know what their true state is. I have never personally dealt with someone in real life who was seriously considering it but they say to immediately call for help. Doctors and hospitals cannot let you leave if you express suicidal thoughts that seem imminent.

What if a post puts her over the edge? What if there is communication through posts and all of a sudden she posts and says thanks all but it's too much...I'm going to go do it? It almost seems like it's protecting both sides. We all have down times and horrible times and it's nice to have support but I totally see why they would pull it.
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Old 07-30-2005, 12:25 PM
 
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So does anyone know how she is? All of this discussion is fine, but how is she?

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Old 07-31-2005, 01:29 AM
 
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Actually, I wouldn't think that there is a real risk of a legal suit against MDC for a number of reasons. However, professionals IRL are required by law to report illegal activity to the authorities. I am not sure anyone would want to be in the position of receiving information like this and not really be able to do anything about it (due to the annonimity online). So I guess you could make the leap that you wouldn't want to provide a forum for someone in this situation if you really weren't able to follow through.

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Old 07-31-2005, 01:40 AM
 
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Wondering how she is....

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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Old 07-31-2005, 02:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelBee
Wondering how she is....
I did a quick search for her name and she has been on posting so she must be doing okay. Her last time on was a couple hours ago

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