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#1 of 29 Old 08-08-2005, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have a few questions if you don't mind indulging me a little . I'm curious how this works. If someone is banned do they just dissappear? Is their name removed? What about their posts? Is there an announcement of any kind or is it just done and that's it? How do we know if a member is banned? I ask because I've noticed some threads where there has been confusion as to whether or not a member was banned or just isn't around and it concerns me because some of us form some strong ties on this board and to just have someone dissapear, well, it can be a bit unsettling (I'm aware that we shouldn't talk about specifics and this isn't really about specific situations, I'm talking general here). I may well be missing something so I look forward to being enlightened. Thanks in advance.
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#2 of 29 Old 08-09-2005, 08:14 AM
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It depends on what caused the banning. Posts only disappear if it's a spammer or someone posting porn. There is no announcement just as there is no announcement of members having been warned or alerted or otherwise acted on for behavior on the boards. It's a private matter and really no one's business unless the banned or warned member chooses to tell others. In the case of members having "strong ties" with one another I'd think they would still be able to communicate off the board. I can't see us putting up some sort of list to check to see who has been banned.

Regarding banning in general: Banning occurs in cases of repeat warnings for behavior against the UA and usually only after a suspension and again warnings following suspension. We have outlined our general board policy enforcement on the Rules page if you'd like to check that out.

There are exceptions. Members that demonstrate an ongoing focus of expressing their dislike of MDC, their dissatisfaction with the atmosphere and the members here, and criticism and issue with the administration and moderation of MDC, and general "stirring the pot" will be shown the door. Complaints can be made about issues and concerns in an appropriate manner but when it takes over a person's general presence here and is presented with a negative and adversarial intent then it becomes excessive and inappropriate. We won't allow that to continue and yes, we will ban members for such behavior.

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#3 of 29 Old 08-09-2005, 12:53 PM
 
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is it always permanent? (i'm guessing it is, given the option of suspension, but wanted to be sure.)

thank you for the clarification.
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#4 of 29 Old 08-09-2005, 06:43 PM
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We always leave the door of communication open. A member that has been suspended or banned can talk to me about it, we can come to an understanding, with an agreement to not repeat the behaviors that led to the ban, and possibly be allowed to rejoin as a member. It really depends on the individual and the issues that were present.

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#5 of 29 Old 08-09-2005, 06:52 PM
 
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Off topic- But I have a question that has been concerning me for a while...

I will try to make this as vague as possible while still getting the point across. I have noticed that a frequent member on this board has not posted or been online in quite a while. I know prior to the members absence "they" were going through some difficult decisions and choices. I am genuinly concerned whether or not for some reason "they" are not able to get online or may have been banned. I don't see this member doing anything that would compromise their getting banned, but am concerned of their absence since it is very out of character. I don't want to overreact but am wondering how we would know if something were wrong or how to tell if they had been banned to explain their absence.
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#6 of 29 Old 08-09-2005, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the quick response Cynthia. I appreciate it. If someone were banned and wanted back in how would they contact you? I guess there's probably a "contact the administrator" option??
Starr's question is one I've been trying to articulate as well.
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#7 of 29 Old 08-09-2005, 08:12 PM
 
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So what happens to a banned member's post on an active thread? Do their posts "disapear" or do the posts remain? If they remain, how does it look? Does it say "anonymous" where the user name should be? "banned" where "new member" "member" "senior member" or senior title should be?

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#8 of 29 Old 08-09-2005, 08:50 PM
 
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I've noticed that some banned people don't show up as "Banned", but still as "Senior Member" (or whatever). But then some people do show up as "Banned". Why the difference?

I've been curious about that for a long time. Never knew where to ask it.
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#9 of 29 Old 08-09-2005, 08:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
Off topic- But I have a question that has been concerning me for a while...

I will try to make this as vague as possible while still getting the point across. I have noticed that a frequent member on this board has not posted or been online in quite a while. I know prior to the members absence "they" were going through some difficult decisions and choices. I am genuinly concerned whether or not for some reason "they" are not able to get online or may have been banned. I don't see this member doing anything that would compromise their getting banned, but am concerned of their absence since it is very out of character. I don't want to overreact but am wondering how we would know if something were wrong or how to tell if they had been banned to explain their absence.

Sometimes people just don't post for a bit..sometimes it worries people. You might try emailing the person through the website, if it doesn't work I am sure one of the mods would be ok with emailing from the addy that was registered with just to see if they are ok. We can't really give it out though.

It can be worrying sometimes.

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#10 of 29 Old 08-09-2005, 08:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamadawg
I've noticed that some banned people don't show up as "Banned", but still as "Senior Member" (or whatever). But then some people do show up as "Banned". Why the difference?

I've been curious about that for a long time. Never knew where to ask it.
They might not actually be banned. :LOL I have seen people claim to be banned here that were not before. They might just think they were banned and were only suspended or something...I dunno.

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#11 of 29 Old 08-09-2005, 08:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher
In the case of members having "strong ties" with one another I'd think they would still be able to communicate off the board.
The only problem that I see with that assumption is that some people (myself included) are very cautious on the Internet. You can get quite involved with people's stories and lives without ever sharing your real names and email addresses, limiting communications to PMs and such. I have several such online friends. Some of them I "see" in chat rooms or other places, but some I don't, and I would have no idea how to contact them outside of this board.

And I second mamadawg's question about the label; I have wondered that myself. It would seem to be straightforward to change the title from Sr. Member to Banned and that way people would at least know somebody wasn't ignoring their PMs or something.
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#12 of 29 Old 08-09-2005, 08:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthla
So what happens to a banned member's post on an active thread? Do their posts "disapear" or do the posts remain? If they remain, how does it look? Does it say "anonymous" where the user name should be? "banned" where "new member" "member" "senior member" or senior title should be?
Ya it usually will say "Banned" where Senior Member, Member or Title would be.

If they have requested their membership to be removed it says "Guest" in this area, they are not banned.

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#13 of 29 Old 08-09-2005, 09:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abimommy
Ya it usually will say "Banned" where Senior Member, Member or Title would be.

If they have requested their membership to be removed it says "Guest" in this area, they are not banned.
The thing that puzzles me though, is I know at least one person who told me she can't access the boards at all, and banned is not under her name. She was frustrated because she got emails saying she had PMs but she couldn't access them. That's what made me think not all banned people had the "title."
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#14 of 29 Old 08-09-2005, 10:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamadawg
I've noticed that some banned people don't show up as "Banned", but still as "Senior Member" (or whatever). But then some people do show up as "Banned". Why the difference?
Perfect example of this, in the smilie thread right here in Q&S Cynthia said both Veganmamma and Willowmom were banned. Under Willowsmom's name it says banned (like a title), but Veganmamma's is:
Quote:
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as if she were still an active member.
So, what's the deal?

nothing more to say I guess :
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#15 of 29 Old 08-10-2005, 12:38 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tracymom
The thing that puzzles me though, is I know at least one person who told me she can't access the boards at all, and banned is not under her name. She was frustrated because she got emails saying she had PMs but she couldn't access them. That's what made me think not all banned people had the "title."
It doesn't work that way. When we put someone on "banned" it appears automatically. We don't place it as a title.

There are different options as far as that sort of thing goes. People can be placed in a group where they can still read the boards but not post. In such a situation it wouldn't say "banned" under their username.

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#16 of 29 Old 08-10-2005, 01:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Would someone be banned if they told everyone why they were suspended or warned?
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#17 of 29 Old 08-10-2005, 01:25 AM
 
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What happens if they log in with a new member name, as in they create a new account?
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#18 of 29 Old 08-10-2005, 01:29 AM
 
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It doesn't say "banned" under willowsmom's name anymore.

I know of another member who is most likely totally banned and it doesn't say "banned" under her name, either.

I'm so curious why the word banned is not always displayed; or are these people not really banned, but have some freaky problem with their computer that it doesn't let them have access to MDC?
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#19 of 29 Old 08-10-2005, 01:41 AM
 
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I noticed the same thing about willowsmom. I was trying to figure out what happened with her and started searching through her posts and saw the banned thing and then it was gone. Maybe this isn't public info?
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#20 of 29 Old 08-10-2005, 09:44 AM
 
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Is it a matter of semantics?

They're not "banned," they're just "suspended indefinitely?"

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#21 of 29 Old 08-10-2005, 10:57 AM
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Starr, I guess the best I can offer you or anyone else with a concern such as yours is to say you can PM me to ask about the member if you are not able to contact her/him through the board PM or Email features.

Banned displays under their names if a moderator places them on temporary ban until I can address the issue they are involved in. I can change that so there is no confusion.

mamajama, yes, contact to discuss a ban and request reinstatement should be done by email. Every page of the boards has a Contact Us link at the bottom.

Ruthla, I think I already answered your question in my first reply. The Banned title will only appear if a moderator temporarily bans a member until I can look at the issue and make a decision on how to handle it. That's a default title that overrides the usual title.


There si a difference in being suspended and banned. A suspension is for a period of time. A ban is indefinite, possibly permanent. But I have reinstated banned members who have returned to acknowledge the inappropriate behavior that led to their ban and agreed to adhere to the UA.

Quote:
Would someone be banned if they told everyone why they were suspended or warned?
All depends on the situation and the reason it seems they are wanting to convey such information to the community. For example, if it's a protest sort of thing to take issue with the admin/mod actions then it will result in another warning. And if that person already has two warnings on her record that would make a third and result in a suspension, or a ban if she has been previously suspended.

But if the intent is sincere, say, to help another member avoid creating an issue in a thread - "I think you should avoid posting in this manner as you could get a warning. I've been warned in the past for doing so" then no. We'd not usually warn or ban someone over that. But I think it's pretty easy to tell the difference in someone is trying to by snarky and stir drama and create negativity in a thread about MDC moderation and when they are sincere and wanting to avoid problems.

tracymom, if she can't access the boards at all then her IP is banned. I will ban an IP number if I find the person is posting under another person's account or is registering and posting under a new account to get around the ban or suspension of her account. I'll do the same if I come to find that a member is participating in cross board posting issues, copying and pasting discussions from here to another forum to encourage another community to to come here to criticize, troll, etc.

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#22 of 29 Old 08-10-2005, 12:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher
tracymom, if she can't access the boards at all then her IP is banned. I will ban an IP number if I find the person is posting under another person's account or is registering and posting under a new account to get around the ban or suspension of her account. I'll do the same if I come to find that a member is participating in cross board posting issues, copying and pasting discussions from here to another forum to encourage another community to to come here to criticize, troll, etc.
Ah, okay. I guess where my confusion has been is that people seemed to "disappear," then sometimes later I found they said they were banned, but no "banned" appeared under their name so I was But you clarified that in another place in your post, so that helps. Thank you for responding!
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#23 of 29 Old 08-10-2005, 03:23 PM
 
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so, if a person is banned, and it says so under their name, and then you review their banning and remove the "banned" label, but they are still banned... this is really confusing. Why not just leave the "banned" label under all the usernames who are banned as long as they are banned?

I think it's strange if a person is banned but there is no indication of the banning in their username or profile.

ETA: if the IP number is blocked, is the user allowed to log in to MDC under her original username at a different IP station?
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#24 of 29 Old 08-10-2005, 03:27 PM
 
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One option might also be to post what can be mentioned w/o violating policy. A board I'd read for a while did that in their version of Q/S:

"So and So has been banned"

<I>So and So has been banned for repeatedly posting and retracting inflammatory threads after being warned mulitple times for doing so.</i>

The community was much improved by that policy.
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#25 of 29 Old 08-10-2005, 11:46 PM
 
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I have been thinking about this for a while now, and I'm so glad this thread is here so that I can get this out.

I am so very saddened by the bannings. I've been on MDC since 2001, and I don't think that it is an exaggeration to say that this place changed the way I look at the world, and has had a huge impact on the way I parent. I've learned so much both from reading the wise words of other mothers and from thinking through my own disagreements with the ideas presented.

But as the time has passed, so many of those posters I admired, and those I vehemently disagreed with but learned much from, have left through bannings, or because of the atmosphere of bannings. And as such, I feel that the enormous potential of this place has been compromised.

I haven't always agreed with the message or the tone of posters whose ideas are seen often as radical, or extreme. However, the opportunity to discuss and interact with people who provoke thought was really priceless. The nature of the discussions here, the heated debate and the more rational and philosophical, helped me to embrace the examined life. I am a more thoughtful, reflective parent because of the time I've been here.

However, I am so deeply saddened when voices such as those of veganmama, and girlndocs, and willowsmom, are no longer here to stir ideas, to encourage the examined life, to agree with in some instances and react against in others. I miss the radical TCSers; I miss the posts of the deeply knowledgeable in vaccinations. I miss the rabid political discussions, some of which infuriated me. I miss the people who challenged my own ignorance of privilege and issues of class and race, while taking a wee bit of pride in trying to take up that mantle myself.

I understand the dilemma of a place like this. How do you encourage thought, and discussion, and the free and fair exchange of ideas, without bruising feelings and egos? How do you allow dissent and argument, heated and passionate dialogue, without giving reign to chaos? I get that dilemma, but the conclusions I reach about the balance between chaos and censorship are different from the ideas I see in action here.

I'd really, really like to encourage a more open community: one that allows for dissent, and allows more self-policing by the members of the community. I'd love to see that, because I feel strongly that the opportunities for growth and self-examination are limited exponentially when any community becomes more closed and rigid. The examined life is not possible when there are not extremes to react against, from both sides of any issue.

I can't continue to participate here, in light of the changes that I see. I just don't want to be complicit in something that feels like controlled expression. I'd like to request that my posts be deleted, and my user name and password removed from the site.

I really struggled with this decision; I've been angry, but mostly I just feel sad. Thank you for Mothering, for all that this place has meant to me in the past, for the tremendous opportunities to grow into the mother I want to become. I really hope that there can be some change to reverse the trends that have led me to this decision.

Much love, and light, and peace to all.
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#26 of 29 Old 08-11-2005, 12:24 AM
 
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#27 of 29 Old 08-11-2005, 12:35 AM
 
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that's really sad.

yet another valuable member of the community.
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#28 of 29 Old 08-11-2005, 01:26 AM
 
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Every day, there are fewer and fewer reasons to stick around.

My heart has broken so many times, as my friends have left - or been shown the door.

It is truly a depressing series of events that has brought us to this point.
I wish more people could see things as clearly as Kaly does.

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#29 of 29 Old 08-11-2005, 09:05 AM
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We don't place the Banned title. It appears by default when a mod bans a member.
IP numbers may be banned but it's not a reliable method to block someone. They can easily access through another IP number.

MDC general UA and board policy enforcement has not changed since 2001. It is all outlined in the Rules page. What has changed is that we have grown considerably and with growth comes issues, members that don't like some of the rules and guidelines and who refuse to adhere to them. That will result in their removal.

If that is not acceptable to you (general 'you') then we welcome your decision to find another community that is more in line with your expectations. As we state clearly in the UA:

"By registering to become a member of our community, you agree to abide by the policies herein. If you cannot agree with these terms, we wish you well in finding another online community that better meets your personal needs and desires."

Allowing a "valuable community member" to ignore our rules and warnings, deliberately violate them, and repeatedly do so, is not reasonable. Everyone is required to observe the same rules. If you have an issue with that then MDC is definitely not the place for you.

I have stated repeatedly that we will not host discussion of the banning of members. To do so in all fairness, presenting the full story, would necessitate an explanation of their behaviors both here on the boards and in private communication as well as the alerts and warnings that were issued them prior to their banning. That would be against our policy of respecting member privacy and not conveying private communications and issues. Perhaps for some communities it is an acceptable practice to do so but it is not here.

Any further questions about this issue can be PMed or emailed to me.

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