smilie request -- hospital birth? - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 245 Old 05-30-2006, 10:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by beansavi
For all that MDC represents, sisterhood (aka the "dotcommune" part) is first and foremost.[/B]

HELLO????????????????
actually no, AP and NFL are what are first and foremost. Yes we all have the right to make the choices that are right for us. But all of those choices are not advocated at MDC.
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#122 of 245 Old 05-30-2006, 11:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna
actually no, AP and NFL are what are first and foremost. Yes we all have the right to make the choices that are right for us. But all of those choices are not advocated at MDC.

Yes yes yes. You are awesome!! :

And I dont mean that judjmentally
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#123 of 245 Old 05-30-2006, 11:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms.Doula

And I dont mean that judjmentally
Wow, that's necessary!!!

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#124 of 245 Old 05-30-2006, 11:09 PM
 
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Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!


Quote:
Originally Posted by mamamoo
And as many mamas noted here, you *can* have a NATURAL birth in a hospital...
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#125 of 245 Old 05-30-2006, 11:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamamoo
Wow, that's necessary!!!
awww deb I hope your not offended..

I was being lightheartedly funny. errr trying to.
I mean it though. I dont think anyone here is judgeing (why cant I spell that!!??)
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#126 of 245 Old 05-30-2006, 11:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ms.Doula
awww deb I hope your not offended..

I was being lightheartedly funny. errr trying to.
I mean it though. I dont think anyone here is judgeing (why cant I spell that!!??)
I am actually. Not that it matters. I just don't think it's funny. So I wonder what all the new smilies are advocating, since that's what they are there for...

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#127 of 245 Old 05-30-2006, 11:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by curlyfry
I just hate this superiority complex that I'm sensing in this thread.
:
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#128 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 12:00 AM
 
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Wow... I really think this is out of hand.
I for one an NOT juging anyone!

For crying out loud I have had Hospital births, homebirths, waterbirths ect. ect.
all 4 times were different.

I do NOT have a superiority complex.
People are being so sensitive & I think are feeling descriminated against.
Its not personal.
really, it's not.
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#129 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 12:03 AM
 
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This is how I see MDC also. Women/Mamas supporting other Women/Mamas. No judgements, no games, just supporting other Mamas & sharing love.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beansavi
sisterhood is first and foremost
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#130 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 12:04 AM
 
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: : : :Puke


OK, so if Smilies are all about advocacy, and supporting NFL and AP, will someone please tell me what all of the above smilies have to do with NFL and AP?
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#131 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 12:07 AM
 
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ok ok since we need to split hairs....

some are obviously Emoticon/smlies.....

others are of things MDC will advocate/support
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#132 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 12:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rachelle-a-tron
This is how I see MDC also. Women/Mamas supporting other Women/Mamas. No judgements, no games, just supporting other Mamas & sharing love.
its about informing mothers so they can make their best choices.
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#133 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 12:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by phathui5
From my experience and everything that I've read and heard, you have to fight to have a legitimately natural hospital birth.
This might be true in the USA, but it's not true across the globe. I understand that the majority of posters here are from the US, and that natural birth in a hospital in the US is fairly rare. But that doesn't mean it's true everywhere.

Lots and lots of comments on this thread are extremely US-centric. Please be aware that different experiences occur in different cultures.
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#134 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 12:14 AM
 
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But THEIR "best choices" may not be the same as your "best choices." :


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms.Doula
its about informing mothers so they can make their best choices.
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#135 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 12:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ms.Doula
Wow... I really think this is out of hand.
I for one an NOT juging anyone!

For crying out loud I have had Hospital births, homebirths, waterbirths ect. ect.
all 4 times were different.

I do NOT have a superiority complex.
People are being so sensitive & I think are feeling descriminated against.
Its not personal.
really, it's not.
Well, then I guess people weren't talking to you then...the wink seemed snarky to me. And it was upsetting.

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#136 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 12:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ms.Doula
ok ok since we need to split hairs....

some are obviously Emoticon/smlies.....

others are of things MDC will advocate/support
Exactly, so who's to say a hospital birth smiley isn't just a smiley? I would not use it for advocasy, it would actually be advocating for homebirth...as that is what my last two have been.


I think the smiley thing is crazay...that people can be so against something that is so innocent.

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#137 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 12:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by rachelle-a-tron
But THEIR "best choices" may not be the same as your "best choices." :
but that was my point!!
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#138 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 12:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamamoo
Well, then I guess people weren't talking to you then...the wink seemed snarky to me. And it was upsetting.
Well since you and I are supposed to be friends... I was giving a friendly wink.
I cant win for loosing.............
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#139 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 12:30 AM
 
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Yep. That is exactly my point...

You know, I am very crunchy -- vegetarian, whole food, baby has never had a sposie diaper on her, we cosleep, she is almost 2 and has never been away from her father or I (never been left with anyone else) and always coslept - she is also still nursing and going strong.

I had a planned homebirth with a midwife. I didn't allow routine tests during my pregnancy -- not a single internal exam, no doppler and no ultrasound. I wouldn't pack a bag for the hospital because I wanted all of my intention to be on having a normal, natural homebirth. I read all the books -- everything from spiritual midwifery to Birth without Violence.

But I was not in control -- we never are. And for whatever reason, after 36 hours of hard labor, we had complications and had to go to the hospital. I won't get into the details here -- but the birth was horrible. It was so hard at the hospital. It was a constant fight to maintain as much of my birth vision as I could. We had more interventions that I wanted -- and it was far from a natural birth.

This thread has hit an emotional core for me. My birth was horrendously hard. Much harder than it would have been if I had been able to stay home and have my homebirth. I had to face my fears of the hospital -- and fight during a time when I really just needed to surrender and trust. Like many women who do not have the ideal birth situation -- for whatever reason, the fact that I made it through it -- the fact that I gave birth to my baby -- should be celebrated.

I am for a hospital birth smilie because what I did -- what I accomplished should be celebrated. I went into an environment that did not support my ideals and I persevered and made it through. I am not celebrating the hospitals, the doctors or the nurses -- I would be celebrating ME and the accomplishment I had.

That is why the smilie would not have a doctor or a nurse -- but a MOM and her BABY IMO. The setting is irrelevant. A hospital similie with a doctor holding the baby would be offensive IMO. But a picture of a mom and her baby in a hospital bed -- would be celebrating BIRTH.

Go back and read Peggys definition of NFL a few issues back...it is not as clear cut as some here would make it out to be.
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#140 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 12:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tribalmax
Yep. That is exactly my point...

You know, I am very crunchy -- vegetarian, whole food, baby has never had a sposie diaper on her, we cosleep, she is almost 2 and has never been away from her father or I (never been left with anyone else) and always coslept - she is also still nursing and going strong.

I had a planned homebirth with a midwife. I didn't allow routine tests during my pregnancy -- not a single internal exam, no doppler and no ultrasound. I wouldn't pack a bag for the hospital because I wanted all of my intention to be on having a normal, natural homebirth. I read all the books -- everything from spiritual midwifery to Birth without Violence.

But I was not in control -- we never are. And for whatever reason, after 36 hours of hard labor, we had complications and had to go to the hospital. I won't get into the details here -- but the birth was horrible. It was so hard at the hospital. It was a constant fight to maintain as much of my birth vision as I could. We had more interventions that I wanted -- and it was far from a natural birth.

This thread has hit an emotional core for me. My birth was horrendously hard. Much harder than it would have been if I had been able to stay home and have my homebirth. I had to face my fears of the hospital -- and fight during a time when I really just needed to surrender and trust. Like many women who do not have the ideal birth situation -- for whatever reason, the fact that I made it through it -- the fact that I gave birth to my baby -- should be celebrated.

I am for a hospital birth smilie because what I did -- what I accomplished should be celebrated. I went into an environment that did not support my ideals and I persevered and made it through. I am not celebrating the hospitals, the doctors or the nurses -- I would be celebrating ME and the accomplishment I had.

That is why the smilie would not have a doctor or a nurse -- but a MOM and her BABY IMO. The setting is irrelevant. A hospital similie with a doctor holding the baby would be offensive IMO. But a picture of a mom and her baby in a hospital bed -- would be celebrating BIRTH.

Go back and read Peggys definition of NFL a few issues back...it is not as clear cut as some here would make it out to be.
I was going to not come back here, but this is what I am talking about! Good for you mama!!

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#141 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 12:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by hotmamacita
And all our unassisted mamas need some love and support b/c they really are pioneers for birth in our culture.
Pioneers? yes and no....I have a huge respect for women who undertake UC, particularly in our contemporary culture. But you know, my dad was born at home, during the depression, in rural Oklahoma. Wish I'd thought to ask Grandmother about it while she was living. I have no idea if the birth was assisted or unassisted; whether it was her choice; whether it was just the way things were....not that long ago. 69 years this last March.

Of course, this is the woman whose main recollection of the dust bowl was that it "left a huge mess" after the dust storms came through. So I'm not sure just what she'd have wanted to share.

Mom of two girls.
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#142 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 12:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalmax
This thread has hit an emotional core for me. My birth was horrendously hard. Much harder than it would have been if I had been able to stay home and have my homebirth. I had to face my fears of the hospital -- and fight during a time when I really just needed to surrender and trust. Like many women who do not have the ideal birth situation -- for whatever reason, the fact that I made it through it -- the fact that I gave birth to my baby -- should be celebrated.

I am for a hospital birth smilie because what I did -- what I accomplished should be celebrated. I went into an environment that did not support my ideals and I persevered and made it through. I am not celebrating the hospitals, the doctors or the nurses -- I would be celebrating ME and the accomplishment I had.

That is why the smilie would not have a doctor or a nurse -- but a MOM and her BABY IMO. The setting is irrelevant. A hospital similie with a doctor holding the baby would be offensive IMO. But a picture of a mom and her baby in a hospital bed -- would be celebrating BIRTH.

Go back and read Peggys definition of NFL a few issues back...it is not as clear cut as some here would make it out to be.
Exactly!! Fantastic post.

Why does it have to be 'us vs them'? Why can't we, as mothers, celebrate birth together? I realise that by being part of a board which promotes NFL we recognise that natural is best. But a hospital birth isn't automatically unnatural! Just like a homebirth isn't always natural.

What I'm seeing is people sticking (rightfully) to their guns that natural is best. But transferring 'natural is best' to this situation brings a new set of baggage - that hospital birth is the inferior choice (or non-choice, in the case of many mothers here) when it's treated as being black and white. There are a lot of shades of grey in this debate - like the mama who delivered her 27 week preemie, to a mother who doesn't live in the US (and whose hospital doesn't allow any intervention whatsoever), to the mother who was transferred from a homebirth. That's why people are getting emotional - because something we're made to celebrate is being snubbed and is being labelled as inferior. Just because of an ASSumption that hospital birth can't be natural.

I definitely agree that, for the majority of the US population, hospital birth won't be natural. I don't hospital birth should be advocated. But the mothers here mostly follow a NFL lifestyle, and this extends, in most cases, to birthing. Whether it's in a hospital or at home. If a mama from MDC has a hospital birth I'd be willing to lay money on the table and bet that an MDC mama had a MUCH more natural birth than a hospital birthing mother from a mainstream forum. Just like I'd be willing to bet an MDC mama had a more natural homebirth than a mainstream homebirther. It's striving for NFL which brings us together, and the choices we make extend across many issues.
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#143 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 01:16 AM
 
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I agree. This has gotten out of hand. Some of us stated we were uncomfortable with a hospital birth smilie some said more, some said less.

Now as far as the primary goal being not-judging and supporting each other in choices, I know this is going to be inflamatory but I have a hard time believing that a spare the rod, spoil the child smilie would fly here, or a vax smilie would fly here...how about a CIO. That is a choice.

Its about NFL/AP and you know, it really is no skin off my butt if we have a hospital birth smilie, it just kinds seems odd to me to be at MDC and it makes me uncomfortable some of the PPs have articulated it well.

I have, do, and will continue to support women IRL and here who chose a hospital birth. Women need to birth where they feel safe. As I have said so many times, my ire is at the medical community who has masacred and redefined birth, feminity, and women's health care in this country and created and inculcated a deep fear of the womb. And to me a hospital birth smilie represents that--hence my uncomfortableness.

PTB--can we also have a twins born at home smilie and a unassisted birth smilie as well?
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#144 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 01:20 AM
 
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OT---How about THIS smilie? : Have y'all seen it? I love it.

Ms. D-
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#145 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 01:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalmax
Yep. That is exactly my point...

You know, I am very crunchy -- vegetarian, whole food, baby has never had a sposie diaper on her, we cosleep, she is almost 2 and has never been away from her father or I (never been left with anyone else) and always coslept - she is also still nursing and going strong.

I had a planned homebirth with a midwife. I didn't allow routine tests during my pregnancy -- not a single internal exam, no doppler and no ultrasound. I wouldn't pack a bag for the hospital because I wanted all of my intention to be on having a normal, natural homebirth. I read all the books -- everything from spiritual midwifery to Birth without Violence.

But I was not in control -- we never are. And for whatever reason, after 36 hours of hard labor, we had complications and had to go to the hospital. I won't get into the details here -- but the birth was horrible. It was so hard at the hospital. It was a constant fight to maintain as much of my birth vision as I could. We had more interventions that I wanted -- and it was far from a natural birth.

This thread has hit an emotional core for me. My birth was horrendously hard. Much harder than it would have been if I had been able to stay home and have my homebirth. I had to face my fears of the hospital -- and fight during a time when I really just needed to surrender and trust. Like many women who do not have the ideal birth situation -- for whatever reason, the fact that I made it through it -- the fact that I gave birth to my baby -- should be celebrated.

I am for a hospital birth smilie because what I did -- what I accomplished should be celebrated. I went into an environment that did not support my ideals and I persevered and made it through. I am not celebrating the hospitals, the doctors or the nurses -- I would be celebrating ME and the accomplishment I had.

That is why the smilie would not have a doctor or a nurse -- but a MOM and her BABY IMO. The setting is irrelevant. A hospital similie with a doctor holding the baby would be offensive IMO. But a picture of a mom and her baby in a hospital bed -- would be celebrating BIRTH.

Go back and read Peggys definition of NFL a few issues back...it is not as clear cut as some here would make it out to be.
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#146 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 01:24 AM
 
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(These smilies are not necessary to make your point...)

Well... my best choice was a hospital birth & I was & am informed, so I want a damned smilie that represents my birth experience. Because in the end... the result is the same...a healthy Baby, Right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms.Doula
but that was my point!!
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#147 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 01:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalmax
This thread has hit an emotional core for me. My birth was horrendously hard. Much harder than it would have been if I had been able to stay home and have my homebirth. I had to face my fears of the hospital -- and fight during a time when I really just needed to surrender and trust. Like many women who do not have the ideal birth situation -- for whatever reason, the fact that I made it through it -- the fact that I gave birth to my baby -- should be celebrated.

I am for a hospital birth smilie because what I did -- what I accomplished should be celebrated. I went into an environment that did not support my ideals and I persevered and made it through. I am not celebrating the hospitals, the doctors or the nurses -- I would be celebrating ME and the accomplishment I had.

That is why the smilie would not have a doctor or a nurse -- but a MOM and her BABY IMO. The setting is irrelevant. A hospital similie with a doctor holding the baby would be offensive IMO. But a picture of a mom and her baby in a hospital bed -- would be celebrating BIRTH.
This is a beautiful post Tribalmax.
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#148 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 01:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by rachelle-a-tron
(These smilies are not necessary to make your point...)

Well... my best choice was a hospital birth & I was & am informed, so I want a damned smilie that represents my birth experience. Because in the end... the result is the same...a healthy Baby, Right?
But apparently a larger type face, cursing and bolding is necessary.
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#149 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 01:46 AM
 
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Add me to the list of "had a hospital birth, don't want no stinkin smilie about it."

sheesh. Dang near everybody I know IRL had a hospital birth. I like coming to a place where the hossy isn't represented as being the Gold Standard in birth choices.
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#150 of 245 Old 05-31-2006, 01:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotmamacita
I agree. This has gotten out of hand. Some of us stated we were uncomfortable with a hospital birth smilie some said more, some said less.

Now as far as the primary goal being not-judging and supporting each other in choices, I know this is going to be inflamatory but I have a hard time believing that a spare the rod, spoil the child smilie would fly here, or a vax smilie would fly here...how about a CIO. That is a choice.

Its about NFL/AP and you know, it really is no skin off my butt if we have a hospital birth smilie, it just kinds seems odd to me to be at MDC and it makes me uncomfortable some of the PPs have articulated it well.

I have, do, and will continue to support women IRL and here who chose a hospital birth. Women need to birth where they feel safe. As I have said so many times, my ire is at the medical community who has masacred and redefined birth, feminity, and women's health care in this country and created and inculcated a deep fear of the womb. And to me a hospital birth smilie represents that--hence my uncomfortableness.

PTB--can we also have a twins born at home smilie and a unassisted birth smilie as well?
I am all for the twins at home and uc smiley(WTG on the homebirth btw mama!!).
I think that a hospital birth smiley is a far cry from a pro-vax or pro -cio smiley though. A hospital has it's place in some cases(there are many mamas on this board who would not have a baby to hold if it weren't for the hospital), where cio definitely doesn't...vax too.
I'm sorry...I think I am over emotional right now, and I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. I just feel like people judge so much around here sometimes. I *thought* I was doing the right thing when I chose a mw for my first baby, and I had no clue about homebirth. Little did I know I was choosing a medwife, and I would doubt my ability to birth a baby for the next 3 years.

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