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#121 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 09:57 AM
 
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I totally disagree with the ISP thing. I have an ISP email right now, but once I move, I won't. I guess if you're trying to dramatically reduce the number of users, then that would be a solution. Also, I totally disagree with the not being able to delete posts. I post on here sometimes to get advice, and if after I get advice I no longer want my post on a public message board, I'm going to delete it. And what's up with banning people for no reason whatsoever? I guess I better stay on all the mods' good sides.
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#122 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 12:20 PM
 
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A few thoughts - more as I think on this.

1. So a lot of this seems to be a rewording and consolidation of the old UA, putting all the information in one place.

2. the Kitchen Table idea is cool--anytime you have a bunch of rules and moderators making judgement calls it's good to have a place for arbitration.

3. I've been mulling over the "banning for no reason" thing, and a different spin came to me last night. A lot of people have seen it as directed at established members--but it's also a way of ridding the boards of suspected trolls, or "drive by" posters to, say, the vacc forum...there's a thread somewhere, for example, where a pediatrician posted once, playing devil's advocate, and never came back, not even to keep posting on the thread he started, so far as I could tell.

edited to add:

4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by current user's agreement
Registration to this forum is free. You are permitted only ONE registration and ONE identity which must be applied for with an ISP-based email address. Multiple registrations and identities will be removed at the discretion of the administrator. We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below.
So unless it isn't being enforced, which I doubt, or unless this has been added recently, without discussion, the furor over an ISP-based email address is a moot point.

Edited to add: I talked with dh about the ISP requirement, and based on what he told me, I have to come down against it. The key point he made is that as a means of enforcing the one identity rule, it is far from foolproof, and other than that, he can't think of a good reason for having it in place.

What is the rationale behind requiring an ISP-based email address for membership??

5.
Quote:
I also think that the Parents and Parents to be is not completely fair. Granted this is MOTHERING dot commune, I am a step-mother but do not have any of my own. We are TTC. What if I had no step-children? Would I be unwelcome until we were actually expecting? The TTC threads have become a lifeline for me as of late.
Hmm--so maybe something like "parents, parents to be, and all those who advocate for children..."? (also suggested by other pp)

6. While I am opposed to CIO, circumcision, and spanking....I'm more opposed to censorship and--more to the point--the "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality that pervades mainstream culture. So respectfully, I believe that putting specific language into the UA is a bad idea. I think that having specific language in the appropriate forums is fine. Other forms of harassment--homophobia, racism, etc. are surely covered by the first rule?

latest edit:
7.
Quote:
10. Posts become the property of MotheringDotCommune as an integral part of discussion threads. Deletion of posts will not be permitted as a rule but exceptions may be made at the discretion of the administration. Please inquire.
I don't see the fuss about this. In the first place, it doesn't say anything about not being able to edit, only that complete deletion of posts is generally not permitted. Given that without the original post, or with big chunks of discussion removed (as you see in many threads on the board!) a thread is generally useless, it seems reasonable to ask that people not remove entire posts. Exceptions are clearly possible. That's thing one.

Thing two is this: Mothering magazine is a publication. MDC is an offshoot of that publication, albeit a constantly evolving one. It's pretty standard, at least in music publishing, for copyright to be assigned to the publisher. If you don't wish to give up certain rights/control of your intellectual property--including copyright--then you self-publish. If you're willing to give up a certain amount of control in exchange for the power of the publisher to distribute more widely/market/collect $$, then you make that decision.

Me? I self-publish, and someday I may even get a website up and start marketing...like when dd is in high school.

As for MDC, I'm not going to post anything here that I'm so emotionally and/or intellectually invested in that I can't accept that I've given up some control of it.

That said, there is Thing 3--I would think that one area that needs to be examined carefully in this regard is the writing workshop. I'm thinking that so long as what is posted isn't in a final form, then "signing off" on the UA wouldn't jeopardize the writers' copyright on the end product. But that could be made explicit.

Edited to add:
Quote:
Originally Posted by savithny post #225
As for the ownership of copyright. I just had my boss sign a copyright statement from an Australian journal that was very interesting and might be applicable. The statement said that traditionally, you signed over full copyright rights at publication, but that's less and less common. So what my boss did was license to the journal the right to use her words in that journal and in publicizing that journal.

Perhaps if the statement read that MDC recieves a *non-exlusive* license to content posted therein, it might work better? That would allow Mothering to use content in articles, in publicity, or in books, but would allow the author full rights to do whatever s/he wanted to with the content as well.
A good compromise?

Mom of two girls.
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#123 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 12:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claras_mom
A few thoughts - more as I think on this.

1. So a lot of this seems to be a rewording and consolidation of the old UA, putting all the information in one place.

2. the Kitchen Table idea is cool--anytime you have a bunch of rules and moderators making judgement calls it's good to have a place for arbitration.

3. I've been mulling over the "banning for no reason" thing, and a different spin came to me last night. A lot of people have seen it as directed at established members--but it's also a way of ridding the boards of suspected trolls, or "drive by" posters to, say, the vacc forum...there's a thread somewhere, for example, where a pediatrician posted once, playing devil's advocate, and never came back, not even to keep posting on the thread he started, so far as I could tell.
: pretty much all of what she said especially on banning for no reason- a PP likened it to a club's policy, and I think it makes perfect sense- I don't believe that the UA is written to punish existing members, just to make things smoother as a whole, and having the blanket ability to kick out a troll makes sense to me

another vote on not requiring the ISP emails, but I think that has been well commented on.

Brenda- Blessed wahmama to Sara(7) & Alex(5) 7/10 & 9/10 Living the crazy life with dh David & Charlie on our little urban farm!
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#124 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 02:43 PM
 
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What is happening to MDC?
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#125 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 03:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna

I think we need more information regarding the Kitchen Table. It sounds good or at least a step in the right direction, but I don't really understand it's true purpose. As it stands now the membership is very limited in constructive ways of dealing with conflicts with the admins and mods.

The contacting of mods and the admin leaves alot to be desired in real conflict resolution. It seems to be actually limited to just being convinced that the rule is justified and one is expected to abide by it with no real possibility of working a solution that is acceptable to the membership and the admin and mods. We are effectivly silenced.

So I think we need to a real way for the membership to be heard. Because forcing discussion to pm makes it very difficult to dialogue with the whole membership about issues that effect us all.
I strongly agree. It is a private board but based on a communal model. Rather than getting slapped in the dark, we should be able to discuss it. Would the Kitchen Table be the same people all the time; ie. the top posters remain the top posters pretty much indefinitely.

Otherwise, I pretty much agree w/most of the above comments re:
--wording on spanking, racist, sexist & classist issues
--please don't censor open discussions, though
--have a forum open to sexual topics
--not actively policing other boards/sites
--deleting memberships after a certain amount of time

I would also like to see an emphasis on respecting each others growth as I have seen many negative & disrespectful comments lately from established members towards newbies or people who are simply trying to figure out parenting and life. I feel we shouldn't call people "stupid" here or elsewhere b/c they make different choices. We should all be expected to act respectfully regardless of our post count or popularity.

MDC is a wonderful community--thank you for hosting it

Having read today's comments on policing and censorship, I wanted to add that I see some ambiguity in whether members should work together and communicate about issues in a thread or, instead, tattle via the "report" button. Yep, I've used that button when I felt that a thread had taken a really negative tone overall. I feel, however, that it's better if the posters first try to resolve the thread issues ON the thread btw themselves. I've seen posted a few times recently the advice for members to report but no encouragement to discuss first.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusbeans
I think of MDC as a friend's home, and when you are at a friend's home he or she can't -tell- you what to say or what not to say, but she or he can ask you, and if you don't respect that you can also be asked to leave.
I like this analogy but then you have to assume your friend really isn't interested in furthering your friendship & isn't open to any self-inspection; ie. maybe her ideas are outdated or based on misinformation. Too, if you do leave, shouldn't you be welcome to continue your friendship w/the other people who leave with you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The4OfUs
Perhaps we need more mods to be able to handle the volume on the boards, instead of a 'big brother' UA...I'm sure you would get many volunteers...
: This sounds like a fabulous idea!! Wasn't this why you added Granola Ambassadors? Maybe even have a 3rd tier; ie. allow GA to move threads (not remove) and have a new GAJr to help out w/etiquette, etc?
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#126 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 03:17 PM
 
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I like:
-free membership
-one identity per person
-no derogatory comments, etc.
-no spam
-warnings about inappropriate posts
-non-constructive criticism of mdc not allowed
-not advocating things like spanking, ABM, etc.

it think I like the kitchen table, but I'd like more info, as other members have mentioned.

I don't like:
-"no reason whatsoever"--wtf??: tell us what you're doing, and why
-isp requirement. If I'm correct, that basically means you have to pay for it. I have one, and I don't even use it. Hotmail and Yahoo are superior, in my opinion, and others have said plenty about this.
-deletion of posts not permitted. I'm not inherently against this, but I think there should be clarification. What are the circumstances in which it's allowed? How much deletion are we talking, we can't delete our whole post? Can't delete 1/2 of it? A sentence?
-we don't have an mdc-wide rule about not advocating spanking, 100% vaxing, circ, etc.

In addition, I'm questioning the point of not allowing explicitly sexual language. This isn't a very big issue for me, but a few other people mentioned it, so I thought I'd enter my 2 cents. Maybe we don't need a whole separate area devoted JUST to sex, because that could get into catering to a whole 'nother audience. Although, if it were restricted with the 50/60 rule like TAO, etc., it may work. Or, we could allow sexy posts in just certain forums or sub-forums.

Rachel, massage therapist and single mom :to Keanu 7/29/04 and Juniper 11/18/11!  Lovingfemalesling.GIFcd.gifnamaste.giflactivist.gifgd.giffambedsingle1.gif

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#127 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 03:49 PM
 
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I am uncomfortable with the rule that one cannot delete their own posts.

I have written posts on occasion, and then realized later they were based on a misunderstanding of the OP (or something similar). Rather than leaving my erroneous post there, I edited it to say "never mind" or something like that to keep my post from inviting a lot of unnecessary comments, and taking over the thread.

What will be considered "deleting?" If I edit my post so thoroughly that the text is completely different from the original text I posted, would this be considered deleting? In essence, it is equivalent to deleting, but it would be very difficult to police, I would believe.

If this rule goes into effect, and people are allowed to freely edit posts (as I think they should be) the easy loophole is for someone to go back and edit their post to say something completely different from what was originally posted. So the rule will be impotent unless you can consistently police how people edit their posts.

ETA: I agree with MDC reserving the right to cancel users without giving a reason. It's a privately run site and that's reasonable. I can see where it would be useful too. For example, I ran across posts from a guy (not a father) in the bf forums that did not explicily violate any UA rules, but were clearly very creepy. I would want the Administrator to be able to boot people who are technically following the rules, but clearly not here for the right reasons.

aran .......... Mr. aran .......... DS1 .......... DS2
BIL Oct. 1961 - Jun. 2009 taken by cancer
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#128 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 04:01 PM
 
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I think that the ISP thing would be a mistake. I use Gmail, personally.

I can also understand having one account per person.

I disagree with making it off limits to discuss certain things.

The only problem that I have noticed (not meaning to break the UA, I just want to explain this to make this a better community) is that there are many users here who are very judgemental and harsh on others. I notice that a lot of posts are misunderstood and picked apart for reasons to get up in arms and flame other members, or when a user is trying to agree to disagree, there are posters who just won't stop.

I know that you can't really put that in the UA, but maybe sometihng about promoting kindness, compassion, and having a gentle nature with other members?

ETA: I think that there should be an area of the board where posts about your sex life should be allowed. That's a big part of a Mother's life.. I mean, unless anyone had an immaculate conception...
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#129 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 04:08 PM
 
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I definitely don't like the ISP email.......while I do have one, I don't use it- I use gmail; I've always had a non-ISP email for MDC IIRC.....it would be unfair to people who don't have home internet access to institute this rule.

I think it should be clear as to which topics are "banned", such as abortion debate, CIO, spanking, pro-circ, etc.

I think there should be a fourm in which it is okay to discuss sexual topics, as mothers we are all sexual! Perhaps a private fourm?

The banning for any/no reason is concerning, and I would like to see more protocols in place for the rationale and steps taken before banning- what is the procedure?

Kristi

"Have faith in yourself and in the direction you have chosen." Ralph Marston

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#130 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 04:28 PM
 
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"o We reserve the right to delete any message or to remove the registration and membership of any individual at any time for any or no reason whatsoever."

It seems that this particular item is almost all that would be needed - it seems to negate much of the other information in the agreement and feels a bit much/wrong.

ETA: Just wanted to chime in with the general agreement that ISP email is a really bad idea. I have an ISP now, but may not after I move and I REALLY NEED MDC... I would feel lost in a sea of mainstream parenting "problems" (IMO) without the shelter/support/protection of like-minded mamas! As other PPer's suggested... there must be some way to verify users with hotmail (or other) email addresses. Even when I haven't had my own computer/ISP as a student and while traveling, I've ALWAYS had my hotmail account!!!

IntactaLactavist, HomeBirthin' Baby Wearin' Co-sleepin' Homeschoolin', City girl gone Country Livin' SAH(HSing)M

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#131 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 04:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
MotheringDotCommune User Agreement
These are the terms of use that you as a member agree to uphold as a member of the MotheringDotCommune:

MotheringDotCommune.
MDC serves an online community of parents and parents-to-be considering, learning, practicing, and advocating attachment parenting and natural family living.
I agree with the others that this is overly restrictive and exclusionary; there are many health and other natural family living people and advocates explicitly denied a welcome place of discussion by this definition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
Our discussions on the boards are about the real world of mothering and are first and foremost, for support and information.
That seems a little misleading; I agree with others that it should be information, and support on the approved topics, but not for support on the unapproved topics.

And that the unapproved topics should be more explicitly spelled out. At this time a few are, others are only "unofficially" unapproved and are quite obviously treated and handled differently as a matter of policy, well beyond the expected variances from person to person, be they moderator or poster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
Mothering invites you to read and participate in the discussions. In doing so we ask that you agree to respect and uphold the integrity of this community. Through your direct or indirect participation here you agree to make a personal effort to maintain a comfortable and respectful atmosphere for our guests and members.
Kept for continuity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
Membership
Membership to this forum is free.
This is a good place to mention that more perks, such as a usable search function, is *not* free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
You are permitted only one registration and one identity.
One identity is generally reasonable. That's the rules I've seen effectively applied at other boards; however, there generally has been an exception for a case where an exceptional need for anonymity is required. In those instances, the user has been required to contact the board administrator directly, and work it out in advance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
This must be applied for with an ISP-based email address.
I disagree, like many others on this point. Many service providers are charging for this, and people move and change things a lot. I signed up years ago, so I'm not sure if this was the rule then; I really wish your old rules were archived and available.

I keep seeing AOL mentioned, ladies. AOL email is free web-based now, no need to have or maintain a dial up or BYOA account for a fee with them any longer. I expect that AOL would be on the chopping block along with Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoomail, and these 65 million other services.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
Multiple registrations and identities will be removed at the discretion of the administrator.
See above about the need for multiple accounts from time to time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
By registering to become a member of our community, you agreed to abide by the policies herein.

Discussion Guidelines and Rules
We have formed specific discussion guidelines and rules for maintaining a reciprocal and welcoming atmosphere for all discussion board participants.
Kept for continuity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
1. Do not post in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, name-calling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.
I agree with other posters that most of number one is very subjective and subject to over strict and over loose interpretation by users and mods, and has been for a long time. Many wonderful examples have been provided; but as I've stated before publicly and privately (and been bashed/admonished/harangued about) this isn't even vaugely evenly applied; to take an example from some older posts:

1. The title is against the UA, talking about "mad scientists" in a health-related forum.

2. A thread title calling out a specific poster and other "skeptics".

3. A thread title offering people to come in and read something stupid, and providing specific links and information to bombard the website in the cause of "activism" on one of the NFL points.

And in the last point - "In any way violates the law" ... well, where? What laws apply? Who has jurisdiction? And what laws? There are lots of women here plotting illegal birth situations that don't get shut down - are you cutting out their last resource to been-there-done-that information? The same applies to vaxxing - in many states it is illegal to claim a religious exemption just to be able to be exempt, and your magazine has even stated that is the case and counselled against it - yet the threads and posters encouraging it go on and on about how to do exactly that. Would they now finally go?

Can you also add that all these rules apply to the mods? I had one thread "temporarily edited" forever because apparently I posted something in it, and when the thread was moved to a new forum, that something violated the extra rules in place only on that forum. A mod took whatever it was out, and then posted her own comment that violated the UA - but the whole thread, as I said, has been placed on "temporary edit" forever so now I can't even report the mod's behavior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
2. Do not post profane or sexually explicit text. Discussions of a sexual nature should be within the realm of topics inherent to Mothering discussions such as sex after delivery, sex and the family bed, etc.
Explicit is one thing, puritannical white wash quite another. I agree that a forum along the lines of TAO (with restrictions on membership age and post amount) is reasonable for this, not the Suriviving Abuse one (whose acceptance policy appears to be very abused, unfortunetly).

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
3. Do not post copyrighted material without permission. See copyright guidelines.
Link?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
4. Do not post to advertise your product or business. Acceptable advertising is available on the boards. Information may be obtained by contacting advertising@mothering.com for banner ads. Advertising in signatures and in discussion board threads is strictly prohibited with the exception of those members who have paid the fee for the Signature Advertising Package. (Highlight). MDC sales and fundraising information may be posted by administrators, moderators, and designated members. Members may not use their business or product names as a username.

5. Do not use a Private Message (PM) or email to deliver advertisements or business/product information and offers to our members without first having been asked for such information by them. This would be regarded as spam and may result in suspension or being banned.
Reasonable, I guess. I haven't had to deal with it much, and well, you guys need to turn a profit, providing advertisement space, however permanently or temporarily to diaper makers, herb sellers, and "child correction tool" manufacturers. Nice to see those guidelines for acceptable content have tightened up, by the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
6. Do not post to invite MDC members to other boards for adversarial purposes or post inflammatory information about discussions at other boards.
See above about posts that have done that and left unfettered or unchecked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
7. Do not post to excessively debate or criticize the MDC User Agreement, or to otherwise discuss the moderators, administrators, or their actions. Constructive criticism and questions for purposes of clarification are best addressed directly to the moderator or administrator by private message or personal e-mail. If this is not successful, see Recourse (highlight).
I actually agree with this. Dissent should be squashed, buried, and kept to private emails and "private" messages here - for the mod facade to maintain any sort of stability, they can never be questioned, and always presumed correct.

If people were allowed to post their non-approved complaints in public, they'd need to be addressed and dealt with in a timely, consistent fashion. Mods and admins couldn't make statements about what kind of threads belong here, what kind of people belong here, and actually expect to get away with it. Then that unofficial list of topics to not be discussed or to be modded into oblivion would have to be publicised. Messy. It's much neater to just click on a page of posts and find a good third or more of them "out for edit" or "out for further discussion".

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
8. Do not post to discuss the statements or behavior of a member or members on the board, or to criticize another discussion on the boards. Such issues should be directed to the member, moderator or administrator privately and not made a subject of potentially defaming discussion in a thread.
Light of day on problems is a bad thing. Hide problems, make open discussion forbidden - it can only lead to problems. I know you think I'm joking, but if you expect these rules to fly, you cannot ever bend to the notion of open air discussions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
9. Follow the rules and guidelines specific to individual forums. These will be posted at the top of the forum.
In the case of new forums, we do need to have some sort of grace period for this - as I said above, I had a thread that met the standards of one forum, and when it was moved to a highly regimented, restricted sub-forum, it was edited and eventually "put on temporary edit" because the content didn't meet the new rules (It was suggested to me it was done to hide the UA violations of the mod, but I disagree).

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
10. Posts become the property of MotheringDotCommune as an integral part of discussion threads.
You cannot arbitrarily remove our rights to our content. Find a lawyer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
Deletion of posts will not be permitted as a rule but exceptions may be made at the discretion of the administration. Please inquire.
Wow, tied with the "we own your posts" that really ... wow. Might as well turn off the ability to edit posts.

And maybe some of us don't want to explain why our family's health and safety have been violated or endangered by our posting here? Especially when it comes to illegal activites we may or may not be participating in that are perfectly "acceptable" to Mothering otherwise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
11. Mothering reserves the right to change this User Agreement as necessary to meet any future needs that may arise. It is our customary procedure to submit revised rules and guidelines to the membership for a 14-day comment period prior to adoption.
How about maintaining the old?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
Given these guidelines, we encourage friendly debate, socializing, and good humor. Thank you for becoming part of our online community.
Maintained for continuity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
Violations of Discussion Guidelines and Rules
o Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email or private message. We will make every effort to remove objectionable messages within a reasonable time frame, if we determine removal is necessary. If you feel another member is behaving in a manner that is in violation of these rules, do not take matters into your own hands. Let us try to resolve the situation. Simply alert the Board Administrator.
I see no mention of the "report this post" function. Having been requested to not use this feature any more, personally, by a mod, does this mean it will simply go away? I was using the feature because I don't use the "private" messages function of this site, and only started using email because of the request to not use "report this post" anymore and because it was ... strongly suggested that if I didn't use email I would have my account rights removed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
o The moderator, upon finding a post in violation of the Discussion Guidelines and Rules, will lock the thread as a preventative measure, posting a note of temporary closure - "This thread has been temporarily locked due to a user agreement violation and will be reopened shortly."
Define shortly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
o The moderator will then alert the member who violated the Discussion Guidelines and Rules by PM and will encourage the member to reword the post
Or email; any way to provide a reasonable timeframe on that? I've run into the "please edit" request only to find the thread gone in what I thought was an unreasonably short amount of time before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
o Should the violation be a severe one or the member be unwilling to reword the post, the moderator may elect to remove the contents of the post.
Timeframe? I've been asked to reword and had it removed within what I consider an unreasonable time before I could - a defined timeframe would be nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
o Once the thread has been changed or removed, the thread will be unlocked to allow continuation of the discussion. The moderator will warn the thread that further violations within the thread could result in closure.
Going forward, or applied to some threads that have been in limbo a while? A long long while?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
o In the event of another violation, the moderator will PM the member, notify the thread of closure and close the thread.

o The moderator will inform the administrator of the incident.

o After 24 hours, the moderator will remove the thread to an administrative board where it will remain for review before being pruned as a matter of board maintenance.
Harsh, but at least you're admitting you'll do this now, instead of just doing it seemingly randomly and arbitrarily. Not saying it will be a popular rule. It's not with me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
o Based on the severity of the violation or the number of previous violations by a member, the Administrator may issue a warning, suspension or ban.

o We reserve the right to delete any message or to remove the registration and membership of any individual at any time for any or no reason whatsoever.
Ya know, I know encouraged hiding problems and disagreements, but y'all are starting to be very scary. I renew my encouragement to post the "who and general whys" of bans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
Recourse
If you object to a board policy, an alert, warning, ban or suspension:
o Email or discuss the situation with the moderator.
o Email or discuss the situation with the board administrator.
o Submit a request for review to The Kitchen Table. The Kitchen Table is a conflict resolution board comprised of a rotating membership of two moderators and three board members, usually the top board posters.
o If you do not receive a prompt reply from The Kitchen Table email the Web Editor.
Sounds pretty vague and overhead heavy. If you can't keep up with all the things going on now, this is only going to bog things down further. Between that and the wall of secrecy above ... not good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The new and improved User Agreement
Disclaimer
Considering the real time nature of the board, it is impossible for us to review all messages or confirm the validity of information posted. Please remember that we do not actively monitor the contents of all posted messages and are not responsible for any messages posted. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of the MotheringDotCommune or any entity associated with this bulletin board.

As a member you remain solely responsible for the content of your messages and behavior, and you agree to indemnify and hold harmless Mothering Magazine, Inc., MotheringDotCommune, vBulletin, Inc. and their agents with respect to any claim based upon messages. Please be cautious in posting information of a personal nature or anything that might create legal concerns for you or Mothering.
Not responsible for posts, but own them.

Don't want to create legal concerns, but allow discussion and howtos on illegal activities. Sounds very contradictory and needs work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaclyn7
On other sites I've been to, they post our IP numbers along with our text
No, no no and no. If we are to go to this model, it should give people a chance to have their entire posting history removed. I can just see anyone who once upon a time, three years ago posted from work, or from a work-based ISP service, getting a call to their security and web folks about "how much time this poster seems to be spending online" - when the posts may be during innocuous times (approved breaks) or stressful times (water breaking at work, following up on Trading Post activities).

Not to mention that companies often share IP addresses; if I posted from work, and so did Betty, Betty would notice the similarity in IP addresses and create this situation from the inside.

One board I used to post on very quite a lot until they went paid & draconian and another I posted on before they went insane (video commercials on every page! LOUD ONES) switched over to a new scheme that exposed everyone's email addy and had no way until we SCREAMED to hide them (it made our user name our email addy). Exposing old IPs instead of working something to post them going forward would be a serious legal problem for some of us and Mothering.
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#132 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 04:42 PM
 
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No No! Don't do the ISP thing. I totally function off of my hotmail. I also like it because it provides another layer of identity protection (sorry MDC- there's a lot of junk and weirdos out there! This site has over 50,000 members, of which I am sure there are people who I would not want to give my personal information. Everyone uses anonomous accounts- it is a necessity in today's internet world). I'm not sure I could even GET another address anywhere. And what about mothers who don't have their own computers? Like those who go to the library, use a friends, or a work computer? They would be summarily excluded (not to mention that many of those people would most likely be in lower-income households, which is just plain unjust that they would not have access to all this great info and support).
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#133 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 04:49 PM
 
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Let me start with what I like about the UA.

BTW: It would have been far easier to review the new UA if the parts that are different from the existing UA had been highlighted.

Like

I like the one MDC identity per person. I'm an Admin on a 5,000 member site and that's our rule also.

I like the UA policy against harassment, derogatory comments, etc. It seems to cover everything that I'm concerned about.

Dislike

1. The requirement that members have an ISP email address is classist and harmful to MDC. I'm not sure why you're creating such a rule. There are people that I know who use the internet at internet cafes, at the college library/public library, or at work. What are these mamas supposed to do? If someone is posting from work she may not be in a position to give out her work email addy. If you're tracking members, and I assume you do, you can easily do so by looking at the IP that shows up with their posts. Typically, IPs are unique. I say typically because I know some can have dynamic IPs. But what's the point of requiring an ISP email addy? You make mamas who have Yahoo, Hotmail, and Gmail email addys feel like second class citizens. I have an ISP email addy but I've not used it. And I don't intend to use it. I shouldn't be made to use an email addy I don't want to. This is the first time I've been on a board that requires members to have an ISP email addy.

2. Criticizing MDC on other boards. This is censorship. Are we still in America? Are you now part of the NSA program that spies on people?

I don't see how you could enforce this against all who violate this particular rule. There will be many who violate this rule but you won't know that they are violating this rule so they'll "get away" with it. The only way I see you enforcing this is if you rely on word of mouth (not always reliable and those that do report may have an axe to grind against the other member - is that really what you want to encourage?) or hope the member refers to something in a post referencing another site where they made comments against MDC or hope the member has a link to the off-MDC site in their signature. Otherwise, HOW would you enforce such a policy? Don't you have enough to do as Mods that you don't need to go patrolling other sites?

People say all sorts of things on other boards, Instant Messenger, emails etc. Let them. What is it to you?

If you want a rule then have people unable to criticize MDC through MDC PMs. I still don't like such a rule but I can accept it. The PMs are part of your site so you're free to do as you wish. But what I do off your site is my business. You have no say in what I say to someone about MDC when I'm not on MDC.

3. Locked threads - I understand that sometimes threads are locked because they are in the wrong forum. I've no problem with that. But when I see threads locked because the discussion is too heated I cringe. I don't understand why you lock such threads when all you have to do is delete the offending posts. Mods have the power of deleting posts, don't they? Let the discussion continue among those who are posting in accordance with the UA and take out the offending posts. What's so hard about that?

4. Sex Discussion - What's wrong with adult women discussing sexuality? This is a MOTHERING board. Most of us are mothers because we've had sex. We know about the birds and bees. I find this rule amusing and incredibly dated. Are we back in the 1940s? Please..realize that we're all adults here. We can discuss a topic without it getting nasty or sleazy. And once again if someone crosses the line you have the ability to delete the post.

If you're concerned about trolls then make such a forum subject to the same rules as the Surviving Abuse forum. You could create a length of time/number of posts requirement so that such a forum is not open to the public.

I think Mothering is a wonderful resource. I've learned so much from this site and I hope to continue posting here for a long time to come. However, the rules here are numerous and draconian. Fewer rules would be better.

Normal is just a setting on your dryer.
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#134 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 05:01 PM
 
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I am finding a lot of this very limiting. I might not be seeing it clearly though.

I believe debate of things like spanking and male genital mutalation should be ok as long as it is in a respectful way. This goes for many things I do not agree with. I have learned so much from such debates.

Making it a rule that one can not talk negativly about MDC seems far too controling and a feeling just short of brain washing touches me. I know forums going back and forth can be a bother and cause some issues but it seems HONEST to me, something about freedom of speech that I hold dear.

I know that not one place can be everything to everyone but as mothers do we not love our children even if we do not agree with them? Do we force them to not talk about monsters in the dark simply because we do no believe in them? Would it not be more productive to talk about such things and open our minds and our childrens? Am I making my point I wonder? LOL

ISP issue: I am thinking it is keep membership real and true, it would end up being a classist act knowing how many parents can not pay for an ISP e-mail address.

Kitchen Table: I very much like this idea. I think it would help those left with helpless and hurt feelings feel like they will be heard when one mod does not agree with them.

Again, I know that some want to see more clear restictions about things we can and can not talk about here but I really feel those things are limiting and harmful. More so then letting people debate and discover for themselves what their truth is. If ALL sites did this then I would not be here, I would no clue about GD and AP and non-vax..... I learned so much in other places through debate and links to other places with other ideas.

Lets not try and close minds mamas!

Thanks for letting me ramble about things close to my heart. I do not chat here as much as I would like as it has felt limiting at times. I do not wish that to get worse.

Blessings,
Kontessa

Army wife to wonder hubby. Mama to 4 and Surrogate mother x2.: Zoey Born 5/7/2010
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#135 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 05:07 PM
 
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Two things in the new U/A have a real "1984" feel to them


"We reserve the right to delete any message or to remove the registration and membership of any individual at any time for any or no reason whatsoever."

AND "Criticizing MDC on other boards"

I feel that there is already a lot of censorship here and this just makes it even more like a dictatorship. I understand that these boards are not public but still....seems like in trying to keep with nfl/ap lifestyles, we're leaving out some basic freedoms here.....hope that makes sense.....

Here's me I married then we had dd15 , dd11 , ds10 , and then and now we and I blog!
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#136 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 07:15 PM
 
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Many members have already stated what I think, but just to add a few more pennies:

1. I think that the ISP email needs to be changed. There has to be a more effective way to control users and access without requiring a non-free email address. I would much rather have members be required to give more personal information such as address/phone number or something of the like, rather than require them to obtain a non-free internet email address. Just doesn't seem fair to me.

2. I think that not talking about other boards or MDC needs to be amended as well. Maybe a requirement that you can't be verbally bashing, or mention the board by name, but I think it is healthy for members to be able to express frustration with another board or a topic on another board here and vice versa. If you're going to restrict topics and discussion so much, you might as well make the board completely informational, with no discussions.

3. I like the idea of cleaning out usernames after X number of months.

4. I think the banning or removing for no reason should be removed. Even if you were never to tell the member the reason for the banning, there is always a reason. Even if those reasons aren't justified, such as the admin was bored or the admin was clearing out old usernames or the admin didn't like the opinions of the member. Those are all reasons.

5. I also think that debate about topics that aren't part of MDC philosophy shouldn't be completely banned either. If I am coming into a forum and believe one thing to be true, why can I not respectfully inquire about the other side as well as voicing why I believe my current opinion to be true??? How do you change minds and bring people to your side without debate??? And where do you draw the line? Even within topics such as vaccines, those that are against them range from delayed all the way to no vaccines ever for any reason. Those individuals could and have debated about why what they believe to be true is the actual truth. I just think that saying you can't talk about certain topics is way too general. While most people may agree with MDC philosophy, there are legitimate discussions that can go on and can be healthy and even teach people a few things in between.

Oh, and for the record, while yes, MDC requires registration, it isn't true that you can't read posts without being a member. Before I became a registered user, I read many links to posts within the board that were on other boards, search engines and emailed from friends, all without having to log in with a username.

ETA: I did an experiment. I logged out and did a search for "mothering against circumcision". On page one of the yahoo search page, I got this link:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ad.php?t=76367
I clicked it and was able to read the entire thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dallaschildren

I believe you can only keep crawlers away if the post is written in HTML.

DC


Not true. I am on another board that comes up on search engines, but when you try and view a post, it requires you to log in or register before you can actually read it. Its also a vBulletin Board.
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#137 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 07:52 PM
 
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Wowsers.
Let me just say that this whole "one post per user" rule made this thread SO confusing to read. I was reading replies to posts that I hadn't even read yet.

Anyhoo...

Many people have said what I would say.
The ISP thing - I'd like some clarification on that (by the way, there have been MANY people asking for clarification and no mods have come in and answered anyone's concerns....why ask for input if no one will respond to it?)....If I have to use my ISP email, I won't continue to be a member here. I don't want my personal info linked to my MDC account. I think that is a BAD idea - you'll lose many members this way.

The "for no reason" deletion? Way too vague. If you don't have a reason, why are you deleting/bannin?

But again, in general, most of my concerns have already been voiced by other members, and I'm not seeing much in the way of responses by Mods, so I'm not going to waste my time posting ALL of the things I'm questioning until I see this.

In general, I agree with the poster who said "what is happening to MDC?" as her response. This new UA left a weird aftertaste with me, and I don't like the way MDC seems to be coming down with a heavy fist on the users. We advocate natural family living, and attachment parenting, yet the UA seems oddly "1984" to me. What ever happened to "be respectful, be considerate, and let's have fun".

Working at home, tattoo'd, metalhead momma - homeschooling Evan (1.22.'06) and Abigail (8.2.'08) fencing.gif , and happy partner to Kyle jammin.gif . 
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#138 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 08:34 PM
 
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:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallaschildren
1. Posting derogatory comments about MDC on other (public) boards should be prohibited if you are a member here.
2. Posting on other (public) boards with the sole intent of attacking a member who you have a beef with here and naming the MDC site in said postings, should be prohibited.
3. Stealing images taken from the MDC board and posting them elsewhere should be prohibited.

The above could be integrated into item 6 of the user agreement.

Thanks Cynthia.

DC

I totally agree here...I was pretty disgusted to see someone who is a member here and at another board mention to all of those people that I was a member here and attack me in the fashion that the other board was attacking me...very low class and I feel infringes my privacy. I feel more open on this site and give more personal details when I post and was horrified that someone here would do this to me.

MDC is where I go when I have to seriously talk about things and don't have anywhere else to go. MDC mamas are like a family to me and I am not afraid to talk to these about issues (homebirth, UC, non-vax, homeschool, etc.) with them because I feel safe but when someone takes my MDC conversation and posts it on another board and specifically addresses my username and mothering.com where other people can gather information about me and my intimate life I feel completely violated. : Like a slap in the face. I feel it should be known that MDC is like Vegas...for the safety and comfort of all members...What happens at MDC stays at MDC. If you have a rant and you must speak of it *KEEP IT ANONYMOUS!!!*

ETA: I don't think MDC should be POLICING other boards, playing thought police or big brother...I think that the UA should state that it is expected that we all respect each others privacy by not naming members and identifying people and situations discussed herein.

************************************************** ***

As far as the usernames being put back into circulation after a period of non use I think we should think of the lurkers who don't post often. I was a lurker on this site with my firstborn and after a few months no longer had the internet, 3 years had passed and now I am online again but during those 3 years had limited access to the internet.

What about members like Pamela Anderson? She has a great screen name and is a lurker but I don't think she posts very much and most likely is a *very* busy person. I agree there may be alot of great screen names but I would assume (and maybe I am wrong) but once you pick a screen name you are stuck with it so as for the senior members who are concerning themselves with freeing up great screen names why worry about it?

************************************************** ***

I agree with the pp's about the ISP email issue...it was suggested that I use my ISP email addy for my domain registration and so I did just to lose all of that info as soon as I switched providers. I gave MDC my yahoo email addy which is the only email addy I check daily and even care about. I have had this addy longer than any other and do not intend to change that anytime soon.

************************************************** ****

Censorship sucks!
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#139 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 08:45 PM
 
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I have to agree with others that an isp based email address should not be a requirement. It will eliminate many members. I have a isp email and basically the only thing it is used for is Mothering.

:::Mom to 5 adult children and 8 year old, Dakota "Why do they call it homeschool, we're never at home?"
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#140 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 08:48 PM
 
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Reposted at end of thread.


Pat

I have a blog.
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#141 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 10:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hera
I'm going to have to agree with people who say:
1. Removing people for no reason is harsh.
2. The ISP thing. I know lots of people who use yahoo or gmail, they should be able to post here. I know that having multiple identities is not cool, but I should think that would not be the norm. The UA covers that, anyway.
3.The spanking thing should be in the UA.
4. MDC rules can only apply to MDC. If someone complains elsewhere, that is their right. Perhaps they have a point, or perhaps they are being unreasonable, but it is still their right. MDC has chosen to have a lot of rules and restrictions, there will always be people who don't like it. You can't please everybody. Anyway, if they post something that goes against another board's rules then they will be called on it.

However I think that if the someone is spreading personal information or being rude about MDC members on other public sites, that person should probably be excluded from the MDC community. It seems draconian, and I know anything on the internet is post at your own risk, but there are parts of this board that are private and I would like to feel safe.
TOTAL DITTO!

We are expats and move around and travel a lot, I only use gmail and I have logged on from many parts of the world using WLAN. ISP only would be impossible for me!

Advocating spanking, circ .... should be not allowed on ANY board at MDC.

Please DELETE all members who have not posted in over a year! Maybe emsil them forst to warn them, but please do some fall claening in the members' list!


More dittoing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain crunchy
Wow, I am not down with the "property of Mothering" clause. I agree with a previous poster --

Also, at the risk of *criticizing* MDC, which is a community I do love -- I have to say that the UA seems really nit picky and seems to censor a whole lot of discussions. I find it so odd that we can't discuss sex. How the heck does anyone think we became *mothers* to post on mothering? Well most of us anyway. I find that rule to be really odd and frankly, a bit 1957ish --- Yes, I can understand keeping it tasteful -- I don't want to hear explicit description of how one's partner *loved* them last night for spits and giggles... but I have seen posts in parents as partners deleted for really benign sexual references ---


It saddens me that the UA seems so rigid in some areas, yet on the issues of taking a firm, public, clear stance against things like circumcision and violence against children seems to waiver in an unsettling way.

Ilaria mamma to Owen, Caroline & Patrick .... loving life as expats in Asia intactlact.gifnovaxnocirc.gifuc.jpgnamaste.gif
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#142 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 10:31 PM
 
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'm going to have to agree with people who say:
1. Removing people for no reason is harsh.
2. The ISP thing. I know lots of people who use yahoo or gmail, they should be able to post here. I know that having multiple identities is not cool, but I should think that would not be the norm. The UA covers that, anyway.
3.The spanking thing should be in the UA.
4. MDC rules can only apply to MDC. If someone complains elsewhere, that is their right. Perhaps they have a point, or perhaps they are being unreasonable, but it is still their right. MDC has chosen to have a lot of rules and restrictions, there will always be people who don't like it. You can't please everybody. Anyway, if they post something that goes against another board's rules then they will be called on it.


I ditto the above. No ISP email. Sounds like a lot of us will be gone if that happens.

Let people delete posts. I don't get the rule about not letting people delete posts. What is the thinking behind that? What am I missing?
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#143 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 11:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caitlin320
I concur with what is being said about ISP-email addresses-- they shouldn't be required. FWIW I have an ISP address but I never use it, I use my Yahoo account instead.

Barbara:  an always learning SAHM of Ilana (11) and Aiden (8) living in Belgium with my amazing husband.

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#144 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 11:16 PM
 
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Quote:
1. Do not post in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, name-calling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.
I think this wording could be changed to something more specific and less subjective. "No ad hominem attacks, no libel or slander, no posting private details (such as physical address or other identifying information) of another member."

Quote:
7. Do not post to excessively debate or criticize the MDC User Agreement, or to otherwise discuss the moderators, administrators, or their actions. Constructive criticism and questions for purposes of clarification are best addressed directly to the moderator or administrator by private message or personal e-mail. If this is not successful, see Recourse (highlight).
I have always felt that this is an ineffective, inefficient, and unfair policy. It effectively bans any constructive public conversation about MDC and hinders forward progress as a community. It also creates resentment among members.

Trying to control what people say about MDC or its members other places on the internet is patently ridiculous, not to mention impossible. I'd think that the MDC mods have enough on their plates without playing Thought Police to the rest of the internet.
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#145 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 11:20 PM
 
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It also creates resentment among members.
Yes, it does.

Quote:
Trying to control what people say about MDC or its members other places on the internet is patently ridiculous, not to mention impossible. I'd think that the MDC mods have enough on their plates without playing Thought Police to the rest of the internet.
Agreed.

I'm also not at all okay with the "property of MDC" thing, and I'm not even sure that's remotely legal. Just writing it in the UA doesn't make it true, kwim? My words are my words, as is the right to delete them if I so choose. I don't see how you could even vaguely enforce this, and I think MDC could get in a whole lot of hot water by claiming to own someone else's writing. NOT okay.
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#146 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 11:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaclyn7
On other sites I've been to, they post our IP numbers along with our text (which I don't love), could you not just have some sort of system to recognize multiple IPs? It just seems like there would be a lot of people left out of Mothering if this became a rule. Furthermore, how many people who truly need help would be left out because they were not allowed to have access to their ISP email systems, lets say by an abusive spouse? Will I be banned or will their be a grandfather clause?
Forgive me if this has been addressed later in the thread, but it really seems to me that this issue is being highly misinterpreted. For one thing, Internet Service Provider (ISP) and Internet Protocol (IP) address are two very different things. There are definitions all over the Web, so I won't go into it here but I believe people seem to have an exaggerated, or just plain inaccurate, view of what a rule like this means.

I hope the moderators and/or owners will take the time to explain in detail what a rule like this really means and what the implications are before adopting a policy about it.

I, for one, would not be able to vote on such a rule without knowing what the real purpose is behind it and if it is even a valid method of preventing the problem it's intended to prevent.

To the quoted poster, I would love to know what sites do what you are describing with IP addresses. That doesn't make any sense to me as most ISPs use dynamic IPs, which means they change everytime the user logs in. Is this supposed to be a security measure? Because that's not going to work. I don't even know what you would do with this information if you even had the right information? Block all subscribers that use Comcast email for example? Because that's all you'd be able to do.

What is the obsession with banning anyway? It's just the internet. Just put people you don't like on ignore and go on with your life.

And while I am on this rant, I will further say, that in describing all this to DH last night, he was laughing hysterically. He's on a number of online communities and they have never made such a fuss about anything remotely like this. And don't get me started on "cross-posting". He's been online for more than ten years and I had to explain to him what that meant. Talk about a solution looking for a problem. It's just rule that doesn't make any sense.

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#147 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 11:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lckrause
I think this wording could be changed to something more specific and less subjective. "No ad hominem attacks, no libel or slander, no posting private details (such as physical address or other identifying information) of another member."
I completely agree.

RE: Hitting, mutilating, and otherwise disrespecting children - I would hate for discussion of such things to be silenced here. I would also hate for advocating of these things to be permitted. The beauty of allowing discussion and not advocation is that people are required to consider their ideas more, rather than simply spitting out party-line rhetoric. A person who comes here believing that it's okay to hit children, manipulate them, etc. would find themselves in a place that offers that belief no support and, if they wonder why, they would be welcome to do so openly. They would not be welcome to argue for these practices so, if they wished to stay in the discussion, they would need to explore the "why" behind their opinions and ask more questions. It's a great way to learn.

By the way, I deeply support having these written into the UA right along side of homophobia and racism. Children have no choice but to be children and to be subject to adult oppression and control. They deserve the same regard and protection.

I also very much like Calm's suggestion about a locked (in the sense that it would only be open to more seasoned members of the community) MDC Healing forum where we could discuss our issues on an ongoing basis. Perhaps that could be written into the UA - that gripes (constructive gripes, of course ) about moderation, policies, etc., are welcome only in that forum. It would make MDC into a much more reasonable, open place than it has lately become and, as was said before, would help tone down the undercurrent of discontent and snarkiness.
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#148 of 271 Old 09-02-2006, 11:59 PM
 
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* What I write is mine to do with as I please, be it here or anywhere else. As I know the law of intelectual property, as soon as I write something and make it public, the date it is put out is my copywrite date. No one is allowed to use my material without my permission. Better have a lawyer write this part for you.

A further example- If I happen to write a good post and decide to use it in a publishable work, I can. It is not the property of MDC and MDC cannot decide what to do with it as pertaining to me publishing it somewhere else.

* The ISP requirement is not a good idea.

* I like the stricter, more defined way of dealing with thread closures. I had a thread closed after a beligerant poster got on. It is still closed and all the posts are still there. It was not reviewed or re-opened. Three of my complaint e-mails to the MOD are still in the "unread" category. The new UA guidelines and the Kitchen Table would give me recourse to get equitable action from the MOD if this ever happened again.

* Better clarity of what is and isn't allowable as subject matter for posting up front on the UA



I may have more to add later. If so, I'll edit my post.

"To lose the sense of sacredness of the world is a mortal loss. To injure our world by excesses of greed and ingenuity is to endanger our own sacredness."    Ursula K. Le Guin
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#149 of 271 Old 09-03-2006, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PajamaMama
Wow, this is the first time I noticed that we aren't supposed to delete posts! I guess I need to read the original UA and see what the differences are...

So my suggestion is...could you highlight the differences between this and the original UA?
I'd like to add this, that I wholly disagree with the notion of not being able to delete posts. I see many valid reasons for doing such, specifically...

1. Fear of being stalked by an abusive ex-boyfriend, husband, partner, or friend,

2. Realization -- like in my case -- that you really have let too much personal information filter out through the years about yourself and now it's basically too easy to compile a huge amount of personal data about you because you weren't as paranoid as you should've been in this era of keystroke programs and NSA wiretapping,

3. Genuine reconsideration of a thought or wording that you deem inappropriate or unhelpful,

4. Double posts.

Really, one strong feature of this board is the fact that we can go back and fix stuff like that. Please don't take it away.

I would also like to disagree with the ISP rule. One of the reasons I also use a Yahoo account is because of the anonymity it provides: I can post here in relative freedom without there being a specific link between "Meg Murry." and "my real name," as there would be with an ISP. I have no intention of doing anything nefarious, and if I do, obviously I've violated the UA and should be banned.

Quote:
I feel this needs to be repeated at the top in large red letters , with a reminder that this is a public board and anything said here could, can and has been in the past, used against members legally. Every effort should be made to make people understand that this isn't a place where anyone can bare their soul.

Theoretically you would think people should know that, but I've seen stuff posted On Mothering which I don't believe people have thought about the implications of. Or maybe they have and just don't care.
Speaking at least for myself -- and I fully admit that I've been coming here for years under a different name and I don't know how to delete Identity #1 (Mods, please feel free to PM me and tell me how) -- I think you don't realize how much you reveal about yourself in little ways until you start getting more paranoid about it and then start playing with the "search" function for telltale things like "Did I ever mention the city where I live? The state? My job name?" That's partly why I think it's crucial to be able to delete things, for one, but also why I think being able to use a non-ISP address is crucial: because things CAN be used against you.

I think it's only in the last year or so that I realized to what degree employers have gotten more internet-wise and have been trolling around areas I've always considered "private," such as MySpace, and using the information revealed on people's blogs to fire them. I don't blog, so that's not an issue, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for an employer to Google your name or email and find out what they can find out -- and maybe fire you for something you posted here. That's basically my situation there, just simple job paranoia leading to the desire to do an identity purge.

I'm posting this because I think I'm not necessarily speaking for myself here. In the era of Big Brother is Watching You and Recording Your Keystrokes, I think having a "clean slate" email gives us a degree of freedom of speech we would otherwise lack.
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#150 of 271 Old 09-03-2006, 12:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonJelly
I don't agree with this at all. With all due respect I am not sure why so many people are so concerned about it, as it doesn't really affect other members. This is not a standard thing you will find in most internet communities. I think everyone should have the option to lurk if that is how they feel safest.
I agree. I've been a member of mdc for almost 6 years, and have not quite attained senior member status. I've spent many hours over the years nursing my 3 babies while reading posts at mdc. I don't like typing with one hand. Sometimes I don't have the brain power at the end of a long day or night to formulate an articulate post, but just reading posts makes me feel connected with the common experiences of other mothers. I've learned a great deal simply through lurking. I only post when I really feel motivated to do so, when I feel I have something valuable to contribute and that I can write in a coherent, articulate manner.


ETA that I agree with a post I just read, that members who don't actually log on for a certain period of time would have membership removed, but perhaps with a notice. I think that would make sense, but I don't think membership should be cancelled simply for not posting enough.
I think silent or quiet members are valuable, too. Just "listening" is a contribution, in its own way. As for freeing up usernames, I don't think that's such a big deal--with a little thought and imagination, anyone can come up with an original one.

I understand that, at least judging by the posts to this thread so far, that this is a minority view, but I hope it will be heard and taken into consideration.

Heather, Mama to DS(10) DD(7.5),DD(6)
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