Racism: An Educational Seminar/Workshop - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:05 PM
 
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Cynthia,

When the same people return to threads and are repeatedly ugly and continue to spew the same rhetoric, what else can we assume? This is a public issue, it occurs repeatedly. Those of us who feel unsupported would appreciate a public expression of support. I don't see why that doesn't make sense.
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#62 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:06 PM
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If they are interested we'd be willing to give it a go. But that would include them taking on the responsibility of dealing with those who work hard against racism in an inappropriate manner too. It's a two way thing, not one sided.

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#63 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post
Missy, why do you assume nothing is done to address the intent of some members? Are you aware of who the mods contact and discuss and what they say to them? Who they alert and warn? Again, please don't assume that nothing is done. And if you do know that nothing was done, please contact me by email (cynthiam@mothering.com - I have PMs turned off) and clarify that for me, pointing to the specific posts of issue and lack of action by the moderators.
I'm not Missy but I can say that I have pm'd a mod about a racist thread only to be told, it's not that big of a deal. The thread got worse, instead of better and then was yanked the next day. I don't think it had to be that way, and if what I was noticing had been acknowledge by a mod who had training I think the thread could have been re-directed etc...

So sure not in all cases nothing is done. But it is clear that in a few if not many nothing is done. I can totally see why Missy , who has a greater understanding than I ever will, would assume that nothing is done.
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#64 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:08 PM
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Missy - and you too MITB - email me with more direct explanation of what and where. I can't go on generalities.

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#65 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ms. Mom View Post
Though I agree the debate is valid, it never seems to end well. Maybe there is something we can do to moderate those threads better? We’re certainly open to exploring that. I will remind all of you that our moderators are mamma’s just like all (well most ) of you and they have generously volunteered their time to MDC. Could we all use some help understanding and dealing with racism? Absolutely! Myself included!

I will ask for your patience while we work out the details and welcome any information on affordable solutions. I will ask that you submit them via PM or email though, it’s much easier for me to keep track of that way.

Much gentleness to all.
Is there any chance that there can be a subforum in activism which works at educating ... any threads involving racism can be moved directly there instead of staying in TAO. Perhaps posts can be moderated (I know some boards have a policy that posts have to be approved before they're posted). The forum would need extra moderators who have had specific training, of course. I'm just trying to think of a way that threads discussing racism can be kept open so that we have a chance to learn and grow, without them turning nasty.
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#66 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:09 PM
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artgoddess, please email me with that specific info and a copy of the PM with a link to the specific thread.

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#67 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:10 PM
 
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As I stated earlier, I have been patient and consistent in most of my responses to things. And it's been pretty darn one-sided up to now and some of us are exhausted. I think a two-sided, balanced approach might be welcome.
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#68 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:11 PM
 
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I did not say anywhere that we will not have the mod training or a seminar. I think I explained the matter as one of expense that we could not take on but that we want to try other affordable ways and that we are awaiting the availability of those we have plans with to make it all happen.
My guess is that many mothers here would understand and be willing to donate some money if you put out a plea ... if expense is the only thing stopping the course from taking place, I have no doubt that most people here will put their money where their mouth is.
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#69 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:11 PM
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Activism is a no debate forum. So that's not possible.

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#70 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:12 PM
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As I stated earlier, I have been patient and consistent in most of my responses to things. And it's been pretty darn one-sided up to now and some of us are exhausted. I think a two-sided, balanced approach might be welcome.
What are you saying Missy? Are you not willing to explain more specifically to me what you are posting about here?

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#71 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:13 PM
 
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Activism is a no debate forum. So that's not possible.
Duh, I feel dumb now.
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#72 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:14 PM
 
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My guess is that many mothers here would understand and be willing to donate some money if you put out a plea ... if expense is the only thing stopping the course from taking place, I have no doubt that most people here will put their money where their mouth is.
absolutely
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#73 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:16 PM
 
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Activism is a no debate forum. So that's not possible.
um. ok.
so how about somewhere else?
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#74 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:16 PM
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My guess is that many mothers here would understand and be willing to donate some money if you put out a plea ... if expense is the only thing stopping the course from taking place, I have no doubt that most people here will put their money where their mouth is.
Would you like to launch a PM initiative? We can have them send checks to Mothering. I'd have to clear it with Peggy first but we also have to be prepared to deal with what happens if sufficient money is not raised.

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#75 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:17 PM
 
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If they are interested we'd be willing to give it a go. But that would include them taking on the responsibility of dealing with those who work hard against racism in an inappropriate manner too. It's a two way thing, not one sided.
Yes, I agree.

I'm guessing you'd be swamped with volunteers if you made a thread asking for people who wanted to help! I don't have the knowledge or qualifications ... but I've seen people who have both the knowhow and the enthusiasm, as well as the right attitude. If you go ahead with it, can members PM nominations, or will it be something the person has to step forward to do?
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#76 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:17 PM
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How will a specific forum for hosting such discussions change the situation? What is it you are envisioning here?

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#77 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:18 PM
 
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Would you like to launch a PM initiative? We can have them send checks to Mothering. I'd have to clear it with Peggy first but we also have to be prepared to deal with what happens if sufficient money is not raised.
Sure

Am I allowed to have helpers? Sometimes I'm not able to get online for a few days at a time, and it's probably something which needs daily attention.
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#78 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:18 PM
 
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Cynthia,

We x-posted. I was responding to your suggestion that things have to be 2-sided. I will send you some links, but, yes, I am tired.
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#79 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:21 PM
 
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How will a specific forum for hosting such discussions change the situation? What is it you are envisioning here?
The only thing I've got in mind is something - anything - which is different to the way they end up now.

If posts were approved before going onto the board it would be labour intensive for the moderators - but it would make people REALLY examine what they're saying. If they knew they had to think carefully about what's acceptable in terms of contributions to a racism discussion, they'd learn quickly about what's okay and what's not okay to say.
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#80 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:21 PM
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Know-how and enthusiasm are not sufficient qualifications and neither is a vote based on popularity. A person must possess and have demonstrated peacekeeping and diplomacy skills, restraint in the midst of adversarial comments, and kindness in communication. Whoever feels they have all of that as well as sufficient awareness of the issues and a good understanding of racisim can contact Ms. Mom and abimommy to volunteer.

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#81 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:22 PM
 
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Know-how and enthusiasm are not sufficient qualifications and neither is a vote based on popularity. A person must possess and have demonstrated peacekeeping and diplomacy skills, restraint in the midst of adversarial comments, and kindness in communication. Whoever feels they have all of that as well as sufficient awareness of the issues and a good understanding of racisim can contact Ms. Mom and abimommy to volunteer.
Are members allowed to nominate people they feel have these qualities?
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#82 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:23 PM
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Thank you Missy. Please do send me what you have to present. But please be specific. A URL to a 350 posts thread to read would not be something I could take on. Specifics would be best.

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#83 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:24 PM
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Are members allowed to nominate people they feel have these qualities?
You could certainly PM abimommy and Ms. Mom with your suggestions.

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#84 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:32 PM
 
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My guess is that many mothers here would understand and be willing to donate some money if you put out a plea ... if expense is the only thing stopping the course from taking place, I have no doubt that most people here will put their money where their mouth is.
Of course that is very generous I do have another concern though. It seems the women on this thread are passionate about dealing with racism as would be the members who attend such a seminar. But here's a question that I keep trying to answer, how do reach member who don't feel they need help in that department?
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#85 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:32 PM
 
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How will a specific forum for hosting such discussions change the situation? What is it you are envisioning here?
having a specific forum -- in combination with an official site definition of racism as prejudice+power [i know you need some links -- will work on it] -- in combination with a sticky pointing to articles on anti-racism and white privilidge -- in combination with a zero tolerance policy for charges of reverse racism -- wouldn't necessarily solve any problem in the sense that racism [overt and unconscious both] will still exist here as everywhere of course. What it might do though is send the firm message that racism [whether intentional or unconscious] is not tolerated here. That MDC has an official policy of ensuring that MOC are made to feel as safe as possible.

And yes, I am sure that this will piss off some mamas. Some white mamas will not get it yet and will feel attacked and like they are being accused of being racist. And they will protest and complain. And we can gently point them to the reading that will help them better understand.

But the bottom line is that it seems -- in the interests of fairness and justice -- if someone is going to be uncomfortable about racial issues here, it should be us white mamas and not the moc.
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#86 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:36 PM
 
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Of course that is very generous I do have another concern though. It seems the women on this thread are passionate about dealing with racism as would be the members who attend such a seminar. But here's a question that I keep trying to answer, how do reach member who don't feel they need help in that department?
Of course that is a good question. But I think it misses the point again. I don't think the goal is to educate everyone. I think the point is to set some community held, official standards here on this issue, some common definitions that the site officially endorses, and a system of redress if there are objectionable posts.

ETA:

The point is to have a community that takes the official stand that MOC are welcome, embraced and provided a safe space.
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#87 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:42 PM
 
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I have PM'd Ms. Mom many times regarding becoming a mod for a MULTICULTURAL Families (read NOT RACE BASED BUT RACE INCLUSIVE) forum. I beleive (it has been a while) I mentioned I would volunteer asa mod for any forum that included race. Although, I am pushing for a multicutural families forum which many have completely confused with a racism and racial discussion forum-which is NOT what that is about at all. Point is, my offer still stands!!

Quote:
Perhaps what we need here is to restrict discussions of racism.
honestly, that statement made me feel ill. It has to be discussed! MDC is supposed to be different. It is supposed to embrace differences and educate. Sadly, racism is alive and strong in the year 2006. And apply that comment to MOST of the forums here on MDC! For example, the vaccinations forum (my favorite ) is quite controversial and often causes rifts. And then there is Circumcison...wait, breastfeeding is even a heated debate in the world! Restricting discussions of a real, relevant issue such as racism would make a mockery of what most of us beleive Mothering stands for. Or so I beleive.
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#88 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:48 PM
 
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One of the problems I'm having with links is that many of the ugliest threads have been removed, like yesterday's thread about the babysitter who made a racist remark--yet, there are certain people (yes, I can name them) who continue to disrupt every single thread about race and, even when their ugliest remarks get erased, their words still hang over the next discussion, to the point that I think if someone crosses a line, they shouldn't be allowed to participate in other similar discussions--it hurts when they appear and disrupt yet another thread.

I've got to spend a little time searching for those threads that were simply locked and not completely removed...
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#89 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 09:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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One of the problems I'm having with links is that many of the ugliest threads have been removed, like yesterday's thread about the babysitter who made a racist remark--yet, there are certain people (yes, I can name them) who continue to disrupt every single thread about race and, even when their ugliest remarks get erased, their words still hang over the next discussion, to the point that I think if someone crosses a line, they shouldn't be allowed to participate in other similar discussions--it hurts when they appear and disrupt yet another thread.

I've got to spend a little time searching for those threads that were simply locked and not completely removed...
I'm having the same problem Cynthia, but I will do my best to give you some descriptives. Maybe you can find it in thread jail. I know the Why use the phrase African American thread was a biggie and the one discussing in detail the differences in vagina's of Native American women was up for like a week before it was taken down.
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#90 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 10:08 PM
 
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Missy and Artgoddess, I'd like to invite you both to PM or email me when you see a specific post of concern. I'm truly trying to understand the specific issues, not just the general ones.

bebesho2, I do have your offer in my notes about proposed forums
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