Racism: An Educational Seminar/Workshop - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 267 Old 11-02-2006, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The thread in TAO was closed or review a month ago. Is the seminar ever going to happen?
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#2 of 267 Old 11-02-2006, 09:51 PM
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Hopefully so but I'm not sure we can offer it as a web seminar as we had wanted to. After looking into the options of a web interactive seminar we found the expense of doing that is beyond our reach at the moment. So we decided to do something for the mods as a training workshop and then see where we want to go from there. We still might offer a workshop of some kind here on the boards in a thread of discussion with persons of knowledge and practice. Karen Salt will be helping us organize and present but she is a bit busy right now. So once she is able to do more we'll see what we can offer. Sorry for the delay and thanks for the inquiry.

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#3 of 267 Old 11-02-2006, 09:58 PM
 
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Conversation with my son on Halloween:

Son: "I should go up and knock on the door, and say Trick or Treat with my eyes closed!"
Dad: "Why with your eyes closed?"
Son: "With my eyes closed, I can say I'm from China."
Dad: *a little appalled* "What? That's not nice, you know. It's not nice to make fun of people from other countries, like China."
Son: *ponders for a moment* "Is that not allowed in Canada?"
Dad: *smiling now* "That's right, it's not allowed in Canada, because it's a mean thing to do."
Son: "Ok, I won't do that."

He is also adamant that we're pink, not white.
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#4 of 267 Old 11-03-2006, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Has the training for the mods already taking place?
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#5 of 267 Old 11-04-2006, 01:29 PM
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Not yet. Why do you ask?

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#6 of 267 Old 11-04-2006, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't know, just nosy I guess.
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#7 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 01:56 AM
 
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I'm getting really, really tired now. We needed that training and we needed that seminar yesterday. People are leaving and my own patience with some of the bigotry I've seen is gone.
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#8 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 02:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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This really needs to happen. The board has a racist meltdown on a monthly basis now. If it's too difficult to have a large total board invited seminar, then at the very least all the mods need training on how to deal with the issue today and them set up the larger seminar for tomorrow.
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#9 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 10:37 AM
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If it were up to us it would have already been done. Unfortunately, we must work within what others are able to do for us.

Perhaps what we need here is to restrict discussions of racism. If the topic is one that is too volatile for our community and does not result in any productive discussion but rather more issues and concerns then I can't see that moderator training is going to improve the situation. I'll discuss this further with Ms. Mom, abimommy and the mods and see what we can do for now.

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#10 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 10:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post
Perhaps what we need here is to restrict discussions of racism.
Oh yeah, now there's a solution.
If we don't talk about it, it'll all go away, right?

nothing more to say I guess :
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#11 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 12:42 PM
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I don't think it will go away nor am I implying that it will. But if discussion cannot be had in a productive manner we will not continue to host threads that create adversarial tension in the community.

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#12 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 12:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher
But if discussion cannot be had in a productive manner we will not continue to host threads that create adversarial tension in the community.
I believe it is the actual *racism* that creates the tension, leading to the hot threads.
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#13 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 01:18 PM
 
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I have to say that I've always thought the censorship about certain topics on this board was dumb and excessive. : But these racism threads really do shock me with how pointless they become. Everybody's always right, nobody is ever wrong. Nothing ever gets solved and not too much is ever learned in all that chaos. It just goes back and forth until the thread is finally shut down. I also think it causes fights among people who wouldn't have argued otherwise. I don't think I'd be opposed to it being a restricted topic. I just wish it didn't have to be that way because it is somethng that should be discussed (but with some manners yk).

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#14 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 01:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Melaya
Everybody's always right, nobody is ever wrong. Nothing ever gets solved and not too much is ever learned in all that chaos.
I agree with this. I wish there was a better way to address the issue. I don't have any great solutions, though.
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#15 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by bright View Post
I believe it is the actual *racism* that creates the tension, leading to the hot threads.
Absolutely I agree with this. We have been talking about a racism seminar for months now. At least for the Mods, can there be something mandatory today? This way racism will be recognized by those who can edit, close threads, redirect and halt posting privileges to those who post racist remarks. Also frankly there are some Mods, who inadvertently encourage or approve racist post, simply because they, the Mods themselves are uneducated on the issue. I know I've pm'd a mod about stuff only to be told I was wrong, things weren't meant in a racist fashion and then watched the thread crash and burn the next day in anger. If the Mods had the training they would be able to stop this from happening.
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#16 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 01:44 PM
 
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I've had to compromise my morals to remain within the UA (and part of this community) more than once. However, as the mother of 3 biracial children, if you restrict the discussion of PERVASIVE racism on this site, I will gladly leave to greener and less racist pastures. Cynthia, the very suggestiion is offensive beyond belief and I'm ashamed for you that you suggested (or is it threatened?) it.
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#17 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 01:49 PM
 
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I believe it is the actual *racism* that creates the tension, leading to the hot threads.
Correct

But my question is if race discussion is banned does that mean that there will never be a multicultral forum, because MDC will not host discussions on the topics which effect english as a second language speakers, moms of colour (latina, asian, black, mix), mothers with children of colour?

I'm feeling very unwanted at MDC, after nearly 3 years , over 3000 post total, I may now lose the ablity talk about the racist issues that arise in my daily life? I may be asked to restrict talking about my life because some posters here hold the same views which make my life difficult and we all believe are wrong, can keep more noise than I can?
:
I've been disappointed in MDC before, but this takes the cake
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#18 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 01:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post
If it were up to us it would have already been done. Unfortunately, we must work within what others are able to do for us.

Perhaps what we need here is to restrict discussions of racism. If the topic is one that is too volatile for our community and does not result in any productive discussion but rather more issues and concerns then I can't see that moderator training is going to improve the situation. I'll discuss this further with Ms. Mom, abimommy and the mods and see what we can do for now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post
...But if discussion cannot be had in a productive manner we will not continue to host threads that create adversarial tension in the community.
This makes me sad. If we can't have the racism seminars, in some form or another, & if you instruct the mods to close all threads relating to racism, it seems to me that many, many POC will leave. Many white women who abhor racism (like me) will leave. Guess who will be left? The racists. : Whee. That is not what MDC is about to me.

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Originally Posted by gethane View Post
I've had to compromise my morals to remain within the UA (and part of this community) more than once. However, as the mother of 3 biracial children, if you restrict the discussion of PERVASIVE racism on this site, I will gladly leave to greener and less racist pastures. Cynthia, the very suggestiion is offensive beyond belief and I'm ashamed for you that you suggested (or is it threatened?) it.
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#19 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post
If it were up to us it would have already been done. Unfortunately, we must work within what others are able to do for us.

Perhaps what we need here is to restrict discussions of racism. If the topic is one that is too volatile for our community and does not result in any productive discussion but rather more issues and concerns then I can't see that moderator training is going to improve the situation. I'll discuss this further with Ms. Mom, abimommy and the mods and see what we can do for now.
Cynthia I am sitting here trying to find a way to word my response politely and not come off as attacking. In reading this post, it is very clear to me, you are not a mother of color. Because if you were you would know how damaging this could be to MDC. I understand in the past hot topic issues like abortion have been pulled off the discussion floor. I'm not agreeing with that, but I know it has happened. You simply can't make the same policy about Racism. This is a mothering community where women (and a few men) come to expand their parenting, in a world that is tough. Yes there are those who feel passionately one way or the other about abortion. However that is a discussion that can be left out of a mothering community. People don't wear on their bodies everyday how they feel about abortion.

Somebodies teenager isn't going to come home from a day shopping with her friends crying that she's never going to the all again because security guards followed her into each and every store, making her feel like a criminal because she had a pro-choice t-shirt on that day. No-body is going to ask for advice on how to deal with the anti-choice words they heard come out of their 5 year olds mouth he must have picked up at the neighbors house. The banning of some topics here at MDC may bother some because they feel censored (myself included) but unlike racism, they are not tantamount to parenting

As Missy said in a thread earlier, she can't just pull the zipper on her kids skin, and make them white. Discussing Racism is as important as discussing breastfeeding to a mothering community. It is part of being a other, no matter what your skin color happens to be. If you are going to ban discussion of Racism here, you may as well change the name Mothering Dot Commune, The Natural Family Living Community for White People Only. And I'm not being sarcastic with that.

Please, Please, Please do not even further the idea of banning Racism from discussion at a mothering community.
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#20 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 02:06 PM
 
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I think if MDC banned discussion of racism, all of our MOC and mothers in multi-ethnic relationships/marriages would not be able to speak (at all) freely about their lives. I would imagine that these women experience racism directed toward themselves and/or family, both blatant and covert, in their daily lives.

Also, what would banning it entail? If someone says something racist (whether intentional or accidental) would we no longer be able to point it out? We would just have to let it stand? In what way would that be helpful? Or we report the post, and a mod gets to decide if it's "too" racist to be on the board? I think that's a horrible solution.

I'm also offended that the idea of banning talk of racism is even being considered. It boggles the mind.
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#21 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 02:16 PM
 
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If you are going to ban discussion of Racism here, you may as well change the name Mothering Dot Commune, The Natural Family Living Community for White People Only. And I'm not being sarcastic with that.

Please, Please, Please do not even further the idea of banning Racism from discussion at a mothering community.

We cross posted, but that is exactly what I was trying to say - you just did it better. I'm NOT a MOC, but if my 5 yo ever comes home from school saying the N word, I want a community of NFL/AP moms (some of whom have been on the receiving end of that word and others) with whom to discuss how to deal with it.

I'd also like to say that, with as much animosity as we see on those threads, people are learning. It might not seem like it when people are sniping at each other, and the same people are taking the same side in every argument - but people are learning. How many times have you seen some one say "I never knew the word jipped/gypped was racist! Wow, I won't say it anymore!" For every one person who chimes in and says something like that, think of how many more read the thread and thought it to themselves?
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#22 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'd also like to say that, with as much animosity as we see on those threads, people are learning. It might not seem like it when people are sniping at each other, and the same people are taking the same side in every argument - but people are learning.
Absolutely, I'm one of them. After feeling attacked and going back and forth on a thread fro well over a year ago now. I took a step back and said to myself, "wow a lot of people I respect eel very passionately about this, I better look at this from another perspective." and it low and behold, I was wrong.
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#23 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 02:31 PM
 
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I'd also like to say that, with as much animosity as we see on those threads, people are learning. It might not seem like it when people are sniping at each other, and the same people are taking the same side in every argument - but people are learning. How many times have you seen some one say "I never knew the word jipped/gypped was racist! Wow, I won't say it anymore!" For every one person who chimes in and says something like that, think of how many more read the thread and thought it to themselves?
Definitely agree with this. I liken it to the abortion debate, which was banned a loooong time ago. I used to be 100% staunchly prolife. For myself, for you, for your daughter. For everyone. Even in the cases of rape & incest that are always hypothetically spoken of... Stem cell research was an abomination... But being here & being able to read the wise words of wise women made me examine this issue, examine myself... I am still 100% prolife for myself, & I will never be totally prochoice, but I have changed a lot, thanks to MDC. If abortion talk had been banned from the get go, I would not have had a chance to learn & grow.

If you ban talk of racism, you are essentially banning talk of race. The women who post here who are racist out of ignorance will never be able to learn a better way. I believe there are some people who are racist, who hate because of skin color & there is just no talking to those people. BUT the majority of racism is just ignorance. These people will never be able to learn if racism is not allowed to be mentioned. I just do not see that this would be a good solution. I really, really hope you reconsider. I have loved MDC for a long time & I would sincerely hate to leave.
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#24 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 02:40 PM
 
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wow. I put my life out there, on TAO, because WOC are leaving. They are leaving because they can't separate race or the impact of racism from their mothering or from their lives, and MDC isn't feeling very comfortable right now.

A ban on discussions about racism would solidify that feeling to an actuality, and more would leave. I would have to go. I can't separate race and racism from my mothering because I can't separate it from my children. To even suggest that a ban might be appropriate demonstrates the mindset of the site. You are viewing mothering through a white lens; you don't have to think about race and racism, you can separate it from your life, because your consideration of it is voluntary.

I've tried to stay patient and consistent through the discussions. There are real people sitting behind their computers; they leave their computers and head back to "real life" and their "real life" will touch their children and other children and very likely, ultimately, POC. If we can change how just one person thinks, it has a chain reaction and tiny bit of change occurs. This is not entertainment to me. This is life. And I address racism in every aspect of our life because I can't isolate it out.
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#25 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 02:42 PM
 
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You are viewing mothering through a white lens; you don't have to think about race and racism, you can separate it from your life, because your consideration of it is voluntary.
This is really the crux of it here, for me.

I think it would be a very bad decision for MDC to decide that addressing racism here is not worthy, or worse, to ban discussions of racism. I can't imagine how that would reflect positively on the image of MDC or Mothering magazine.
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#26 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 02:45 PM
 
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To even suggest that a ban might be appropriate demonstrates the mindset of the site. You are viewing mothering through a white lens; you don't have to think about race and racism, you can separate it from your life, because your consideration of it is voluntary.
Exactly. Those mamas who are POC or those mamas like myself and so many others who are raising POC don't get to decide, "hmm, today I'm not going to think about racism." Its there every single day.
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#27 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 02:53 PM
 
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I will be honest here & say there are many days when I don't have to think about racism at all. I have NEVER experienced it directed at me. I will never know what it feels like to have someone call my son the "N" word. And I STILL think banning this issue would be a HUGE mistake. I feel like I have to apologize to all the women here who deal with racism on a daily basis- that I have to apologize for being white. I would never want to sweep racism under the rug, though, & I truly believe the majority of MDC's frequent posters would feel the same.
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#28 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 02:57 PM
 
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nak

white mama chiming in. i also am appalled that anyone would consider censoring discussions of race and racism. it's mind boggling. what?! we can talk about issues of religion, economic justice and environmental justice and not race??? it would be insane and in itself a racist policy.

I respectfully request that anyone who cares about this issue here and the powers that be review my idea here and help flesh it out.

I volunteer to be one of the anti-racist vols.
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#29 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 03:04 PM
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I think if MDC banned discussion of racism, all of our MOC and mothers in multi-ethnic relationships/marriages would not be able to speak (at all) freely about their lives.
We already cannot. I have tried and had my threads deleted.
I have never seen a black mom post about her experiences and I am sure after seeing how my threads went, they most likely will not.
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#30 of 267 Old 11-05-2006, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Missy View Post
I can't separate race and racism from my mothering because I can't separate it from my children. To even suggest that a ban might be appropriate demonstrates the mindset of the site. You are viewing mothering through a white lens; you don't have to think about race and racism, you can separate it from your life, because your consideration of it is voluntary.
Missy this post is flat out brilliant. So simply states what I was fumbling around with earlier. To me it is clear that the reason we have such a difficult time in threads that discuss racism on this board is that those who have control or power to change that, look at racism as a voluntary subject.

I've asked the question before. Exactly how many of the Mods at MDC are women of color?
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