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#61 of 395 Old 02-11-2007, 12:26 AM
 
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I woud post in both places, though we are sort of structured.

The traditional schoolers have a zillion subforums, why can'twe?

I'd like to see a religious homeschooling subforum too, like on vegsource.
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#62 of 395 Old 02-14-2007, 02:54 PM
 
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Ok....I changed my mind.

I would like to see them split......just like unassisted birth and homebirth forums

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#63 of 395 Old 02-14-2007, 04:31 PM
 
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i have been lurking here since i first made my account on mdc and i have always wished there was a separate sub forum for unschooling. the forum for schools has a sub forum for so any styles of school yet this forum has no sub forums for any style of education.
it doesn't look like the moderators agree though so i guess i can go on wishing and thats ok i don't have any kids yet and will be quiet a while before my kids are old enough that we will need a label for how we learn

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#64 of 395 Old 02-14-2007, 04:34 PM
 
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I read all the posts. My .02: I like not having to pick a label to play in the homeschooling forum. I've gotten great ideas about how to keep up with my driven dd1 from the curriculum moms. I have gotten wonderful ideas about trying to maintain some kind of balance in our lives from the Waldorf moms. I've gotten tremendous help on how to help dd with her reading frustrations from unschooling moms.

Since I haven't found a label that fits, I don't think I'd feel comfortable posting in an unschooling subform. I would post in an age forum, but I'd lurk in the older forums because dd is "advanced" in many areas, so I'd hope for good ideas. Subject forums seem kind of dry to me...it's not how I think.

FTR: the LAH&B forum is probably the biggest reason I still hang around MDC. It's provided as much support and inspiration as the IRL hs'ers and hs-friendly moms around me. I like it how it is now...and agree some sticky tidying is in order.
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#65 of 395 Old 02-14-2007, 05:06 PM
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I have a couple of conecrns if we split off subforums... first, I'm wondering who will get to decide if something does or doesn't belong in, say, and unschooling subforum... it's not a job I'd relish, since I know that there are lots of different ideas about what exactly unschooling is out there. We've already had a few dust-ups about the unschooling "rules" - i.e., "if you're unschooling you must do it this way, and you can't do it that way."

Also, I'm wondering if the assumption will then be that posts in the main forum are not related to unschooling... since the unschooling posts will be in the subforum. So, for example, if a new unschooler asks in the main forum about what curriculum to buy, will unschoolers who post be out of line, because the OP wasn't asking for an unschooling perspective? If someone is eclectic with just a few required items or some minor "pushing", can she post in the unschooling forum even if she doesn't consider herself to be an unschooler, because she finds that she gains a lot from what the unschoolers say?

Age groups seem even trickier to me, because children do learn in all sorts of ways. The same questions about a needing books for a child just beginning to explore words and print could be from the parent of a 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, or 14 year old. Clearly some things would differ, but I'm not sure exactly where I'd draw the line, or if there is a line. If my child is starting to read at 2 or at 14, there probably won't be many other folks with kids his age in the same boat.

It seems to me that organization is the real issue - people want to know which threads will be relevant to their own situations. Could we do something with the subject lines instead, to help with that? Maybe start off with "UNSCHOOLERS", if your issue pertains specifically to that group, or something like that? Then people only interested in unschooling could quickly find relevant threads, or at least more quickly?

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#66 of 395 Old 02-14-2007, 06:26 PM
 
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I have a couple of conecrns if we split off subforums... first, I'm wondering who will get to decide if something does or doesn't belong in, say, and unschooling subforum...
Wouldn't that be YOU, Dar? ;-) I would think that "How do I make my ds do his work?" types of questions would go under general hsing and not unschooling. Likewise, specific curriculum requests like, "What's the best math program?" would go in the general hsing forum. Not that unschoolers never use a math program, but that kind of question wouldn't be specific to unschooling, kwim?

I would also think that people would be welcome to post in both forums, but it would be understood that if someone asks "How do I teach my 6 year old to read?" in the hsing forum, they're not looking for an unschooling philosophy and someone saying, "Is it okay that my 6 y/o isn't reading yet?" in the unschooling forum isn't looking for information about phonics drills.

I think the distinction is that this isn't about separating PEOPLE into unschoolers or hsers, but just giving an area that's open to unschooling discussion. Again, with my breastfeeding forum analogy--someone posting on the clw board wouldn't expect to be given weaning advice, and would expect that people would be comfortable talking about "older" nurslings. I'd hope someone posting in an unschooling forum would likewise have support for their choices and not be told that it's worrisome that a 7 y/o isn't reading yet, or that it's important for children to stay on grade level, etc.

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Maybe start off with "UNSCHOOLERS", if your issue pertains specifically to that group, or something like that? Then people only interested in unschooling could quickly find relevant threads, or at least more quickly?
Would that mean that unschoolers wouldn't be welcome to comment on any post that didn't begin with "UNSCHOOLERS?"

I know nothing about the nuts and bolts of message boards, but would it be a huge undertaking to create a subforum and just see how it goes?

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#67 of 395 Old 02-14-2007, 06:27 PM
 
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Please don't seperate out the homeschooling forum! I really like it the way it is. I learn a lot from it. I like reading the unschooling posts even though I am not an unschooler.

I get the feeling that most people who post here are somewhat unschool-y anyway. I rarely see posts from people using really rigid curriculums. People can always ignore posts that they have no interest in.

A pre-school aged forum might be useful, as there are a lot of threads about pre-school aged children - which isn't really surprising, considering MDC is primarily about pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding and babies. I think people maybe move on else where once their children get a bit older.

It might be useful if people created more support threads, like the pre-schoolers one, or the Waldorf inspired one or used clearer subject titles if you're looking for specific advice from certain groups of people. But I hope the forum will not be split up.
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#68 of 395 Old 02-14-2007, 07:18 PM
 
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Well said, Joan.
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#69 of 395 Old 02-14-2007, 08:15 PM
 
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I also agree with Joan.

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#70 of 395 Old 02-14-2007, 10:27 PM
 
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I started an unschooling support thread. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=616452

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#71 of 395 Old 02-15-2007, 01:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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What Joan said.
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#72 of 395 Old 02-15-2007, 08:26 PM
 
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More 'what Joan said'.
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#73 of 395 Old 02-15-2007, 08:49 PM
 
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I started an unschooling support thread. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=616452
And it didn't go so well.
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#74 of 395 Old 02-15-2007, 08:52 PM
 
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But nobody's mad.
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#75 of 395 Old 02-15-2007, 09:04 PM
 
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But nobody's mad.

I just spewed my nightcap all over my keyboard.

I heart you.
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#76 of 395 Old 02-15-2007, 09:10 PM
 
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Nightcap, you say? Back atcha.
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#77 of 395 Old 02-16-2007, 02:16 AM
 
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Okay, I'm rambling here, I know. Too little sleep, no caffeine in the house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joan View Post
I would also think that people would be welcome to post in both forums, but it would be understood that if someone asks "How do I teach my 6 year old to read?" in the hsing forum, they're not looking for an unschooling philosophy and someone saying, "Is it okay that my 6 y/o isn't reading yet?" in the unschooling forum isn't looking for information about phonics drills.
This is actually one of my concerns with sectioning out the forum. I've seen so many people new to homeschooling post about their young child's reading, and then end up appreciating the unschooly advice they receive at least as much as the less unschooly. But, they wouldn't have known to ask for the unschooly advice to begin with.

This forum has introduced so many people to the concept of unschooling. If unschooling discussions had been relegated to their own forum, I doubt so many would have ventured in and stayed long enough to learn.

Separating unschooling out will really highlight the division between homeschooling and unschooling - a line that I think can be much more blurry than many of us realize. Philosophically, perhaps, unschooling is all or nothing, but in practice, I think many more scheduled homeschooled children have benefited from the advice/resources/support their parent(s) received from unschoolers on the integrated board. There are people who only unschool reading or history, and though I think this doesn't jive with the philosophical base, it's still (in my opinion) a gift to those children. It's not school-at-home or unschooling - there's lots of middle ground. Figuring out where to slice it up might prove difficult.

Then, there are those questions that can be answered in both an unschooly and a non-unschooly way. Do they go in the homeschooling section? And will fewer unschoolers offer their input?

I've enjoyed some of the debates between unschoolers and those who question unschooling. There have been several that I can remember that have been productive, civil discussions (at least for the most part) and that have forced me to clarify my own beliefs - to others and to myself. I'd hate to lose that.

Also, there are SO MANY unschooling-only groups and discussion boards out there. What makes Mothering different is that there are no built-in divisions. That's why I post here and lurk most other places. I enjoy the diversity. I enjoy hearing others' perspectives - unschooly and non-unschooly, alike.

I would worry that those who didn't unschool "enough," or who were afraid to post because they weren't "radical," or who were just curious, or who were a bit put off by the term "unschooling" (as many are) would feel unwelcome. Also, if I had something to contribute, I'd hate to feel my views weren't as welcome on the non-unschooling part of the board.

Okay, I'm through rambling. That's all I can think of at the moment. There might have been a coherent sentence or two in there somewhere. :

Oh, and I would hate to be Dar trying to separate out the threads!
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#78 of 395 Old 02-16-2007, 08:35 PM
 
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: Please?
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#79 of 395 Old 02-17-2007, 01:35 AM
 
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Okay, I'm rambling here, I know.
I agree with all your ramblings. Well said even in the absence of caffeine.
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#80 of 395 Old 02-17-2007, 03:49 AM
 
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I'm curious if anyone here thinks we need an unschooling subforum?

just wondering

Yes, I do.

I would love an unschooling subforum.
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#81 of 395 Old 02-17-2007, 08:49 AM
 
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This is actually one of my concerns with sectioning out the forum. I've seen so many people new to homeschooling post about their young child's reading, and then end up appreciating the unschooly advice they receive at least as much as the less unschooly. But, they wouldn't have known to ask for the unschooly advice to begin with.
And the unschooly-people would still be giving advice. It's not like they would be banned from the rest of LAH.

Quote:
This forum has introduced so many people to the concept of unschooling. If unschooling discussions had been relegated to their own forum, I doubt so many would have ventured in and stayed long enough to learn.
People who are curious and looking for answers will probably wander into the unschooling forum and learn more that way than they would otherwise.

Quote:
Separating unschooling out will really highlight the division between homeschooling and unschooling - a line that I think can be much more blurry than many of us realize.
I really don't think it will be devisive in a negative way. There will still be all kinds of education represented in the LAH forums as well as one special place for JUST unschooling support which many unschoolers here feel is desperately needed.

I notice that it is only non-unschoolers who seem to feel threatened by this.

Quote:
Then, there are those questions that can be answered in both an unschooly and a non-unschooly way. Do they go in the homeschooling section? And will fewer unschoolers offer their input?
Yes they will go in the regular LAH area, perhaps fewer unschoolers will offer input, but they will still be there. I still feel that with an unschooling forum more people will learn more about unschooling than otherwise. Of course, those who are not currently unschoolers but are interested in the concepts would be more than welcome to post in the unschooling subforum.

Quote:
I've enjoyed some of the debates between unschoolers and those who question unschooling. There have been several that I can remember that have been productive, civil discussions (at least for the most part) and that have forced me to clarify my own beliefs - to others and to myself. I'd hate to lose that.
Trust me, those who enjoy debating will still do it. No worries there.

Quote:
Also, there are SO MANY unschooling-only groups and discussion boards out there. What makes Mothering different is that there are no built-in divisions.
Huh??? I really don't get this . . . . First off, I have no clue if there are or aren't a plethora of unschooling support groups online, because I seldom venture away from MDC. It would not be a division in a negative way, and there certainly already are specialty forums all over MDC-- is that devisive?-- I don't think so. As a big MDC fan I can tell you I certainly don't intend to post about unschooling anywhere else, this is my only message board.

Quote:
I would worry that those who didn't unschool "enough," or who were afraid to post because they weren't "radical," or who were just curious, or who were a bit put off by the term "unschooling" (as many are) would feel unwelcome. Also, if I had something to contribute, I'd hate to feel my views weren't as welcome on the non-unschooling part of the board.
I think you're projecting. Anyone would be more than welcome, as long as they weren't flaming unschooling, and if they didn't FEEL welcome right away due to their own issues, they could lurk until they felt more at ease.

MDC unschoolers seem to be pretty laid back and accepting to me.

Quote:
Okay, I'm through rambling. That's all I can think of at the moment. There might have been a coherent sentence or two in there somewhere. :
FWIW I thought you were very coherent-- I just don't agree with you.

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#82 of 395 Old 02-17-2007, 09:06 AM
 
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I definitely feel unschooling needs its own forum.

And for what it's worth -- unschoolers can learn from non-unschoolers just as much as the other way around. Every time I read something that discusses integration, it discusses non-unschoolers learning from the unschoolers (as if unschooling is the right way, and everyone else can learn from them...which of course isn't true...goes both ways).

There are a number of unschoolers who feel that their way is the right way, and that any other way must mean the child is being pushed and treated in a disrespectful fashion.

This view gets old fast in a thread where the OP is asking for specific advice and gets bombarded with "just let him unschool." That's neither helpful nor respectful.

Also, there's a belief among many/most MDC unschoolers that a young child should pretty much be banned from anything "schooly," no matter what -- it's ridiculous and insulting after reading that viewpoint a myriad of times from people who don't know you or your child, and who assume that because you don't buy their brand of unschooling that you MUST be hurting/pushing your child. Or that you're just not creative enough in your thinking...:

So yes, please, please give the unschoolers their own forum.
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#83 of 395 Old 02-17-2007, 10:58 AM
 
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I am on the run- so I didn't read all the posts (will do later) - but I'd LOVE LOVE an unschooling subforum- and what i'd also love is a christian unschooling subforum!
Smiles!
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#84 of 395 Old 02-17-2007, 03:00 PM
 
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I'd love it. To me unschooling is at least as different from homeschooling (school-at-home) as homeschooling is from outside-the-home schooling, so if homeschooling and learning at school have different forums, it seems reasonable to me that unschooling and homeschooling should as well.

I think it would generate a lot more discussion, too, and would feel more comfortable and convenient for unschoolers. We saw this happen with unassisted birth, where before there were a few isolated threads scattered here and there (and when I say "a few" I mean that literally) but with the grouping together of UC threads discussion has exploded. Somehow, psychologically and also probably practically, it makes it more accessible, so more people come and the discussion is more varied than before. It's been a very valuable and beneficial thing for us to have our own forum. Talk about unassisted birth still happens in the Birth & Beyond forums as much as before in non-UC-specific threads (to address one of folkypoet's concerns,) the only difference is that now the UC-specific threads are all grouped together and there are many, many more of them.

And, yeah, what Joan said.
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#85 of 395 Old 02-17-2007, 06:53 PM
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I notice that it is only non-unschoolers who seem to feel threatened by this.
I don't think "threatened" is the word I'd use... "concerned" fits better for me, personally. Stating that someone is "threatened" is rather a loaded way of framing this. And I'm not sure where the above idea came from, but it's been contradicted many times in this thread, including the post you quoted. Did you miss folkypoet's sig?

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#86 of 395 Old 02-17-2007, 07:47 PM
 
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I've just read through this entire thread again, and after a lot of thinking, I agree with Folkypoet. I thought I agreed with TigerTail. : But I also have a deep love and respect for Folkypoet's ideas.

I really do enjoy these debates. A bunch.
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#87 of 395 Old 02-17-2007, 08:09 PM
 
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I really do enjoy these debates. A bunch.
I can certainly see that you do enjoy them UUmom!

But I am one who very much doesn't like to debate much, and I especially do not like to debate things as personal to me as unschooling. I'd like a place to go where I know that I'll be supported as an unschooler and where I can get support without having to define what I'm doing and why.

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#88 of 395 Old 02-17-2007, 08:11 PM
 
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Just coming in to say I would love to have an unschooling subforum!!

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#89 of 395 Old 02-17-2007, 08:38 PM
 
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We are pretty much unschoolers and I am not in favor of a separate forum. I think there are so may ways to define unschooling that it makes it kind of pointless to isolate it. I've heard people say "we unschool science but use a curriculum for math." I've heard people say that unschooling means no curriculum. I've heard people say that you can use a curriculum and be an unschooler if it's your child that is requesting the curriculum. Some people unschooled for awhile and then used a curriculum or vice versa. What if I don't use a curriculum, generally let my child lead the way, but make a point to sit down with him and go over something that he didn't specifically ask about?

When I read a thread about "my 5yo isn't reading" I love hearing replies from all sorts of different homeschoolers. And I know they wouldn't be banned, but they would probably be more likely to stick to the one forum. I really really really would hate for there to be a subforum of unschooling. As homeschoolers we are already such a small percentage of the population, that it seems unnecessary to divide ourselves further.
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#90 of 395 Old 02-17-2007, 08:41 PM
 
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I can certainly see that you do enjoy them UUmom!

But I am one who very much doesn't like to debate much, and I especially do not like to debate things as personal to me as unschooling. I'd like a place to go where I know that I'll be supported as an unschooler and where I can get support without having to define what I'm doing and why.
Well, I enjoy debates because I learn from them.

But I would disagree that one can't get support for unschooling at MDC as it stands.
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