When did they add the feedback thread in the TP? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 02:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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That's new, right? Was it just added? I thought there wasn't going to be a feedback forum here. :

I think it's a great idea though!
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#2 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 02:13 AM
 
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Yes, it is new.
We were thrilled with how responsive everyone was regarding The Diaper Review Forum and so our board administrator remembered all the requests for feedback in the T.P. and took it upon herself to get that going.

If you've any questions, get with tnrsmom . . . she is our TP momma moderator!
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#3 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 02:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Heather. It is a great idea!
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#4 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 07:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by pb_and_j
Thanks Heather. It is a great idea!
Well, thank you, but I can't take the credit. I believe there were quite a number of mommas that were pushing for that availability and gave quite a good 'argument' for it!
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#5 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 08:25 AM
 
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I also think it's a wonderful idea!
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#6 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 09:36 AM
 
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Yea! Thanks so much mods!!!!!

Now, to figure out who all I traded with and gets some feedback posted
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#7 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 09:59 AM
 
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Now, to figure out who all I traded with and gets some feedback posted
Same here! Hey Wendy did I sell you something? :LOL
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#8 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 10:20 AM
 
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I was thinking about a feedback section the other day. You do buy/trade on good faith there and I have had positive experiences for all three of my transactions.

*hopping over to TP to check it out!*
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#9 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 10:29 AM
 
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It doesn't make sense, though, to require that people be eligible to post on the trading post to post feedback. Any member can read the trading post, and thus any member can purchase something from there or arrange a trade. Those sales and trades will then be excluded from feedback-- as most people will have forgotten about it, if they're still around, once they become eligible. Also, it leaves these ineligible people vulnerable to bad sales or trades-- someone could target newbies, knowing that they were immune to bad feedback.

Karla
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#10 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 10:44 AM
 
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Karla,

You aren't supposed to buy or sell on the TP until you meet the guidelines. It goes both ways.

It wasn't set up for other mommas from other communities to come over and buy - we are trying to stay community oriented in our 'trades' - so, if someone was eligible to buy, then they would certainly be eligible to leave feedback.

We do realize that not everyone reads the guidelines with regards to buying on the TP, and they PM or email instead of posting b/c they know they do not meet the requirements.

I don't understand how someone could target a newbie knowing they were immune. How would they be immune? If you have to have 2 months and 50 posts to buy or sale and to post feedback, then it is up to the seller to maintain the integrity of that guideline in their transactions, right?
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#11 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 11:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by HeatherSanders
Karla,

You aren't supposed to buy or sell on the TP until you meet the guidelines. It goes both ways.
That's not the way I read the guidelines-- I could see that as an interpretation of the guidelines, but that is not clearly stated.

Quote:
Originally posted by HeatherSanders

It wasn't set up for other mommas from other communities to come over and buy - we are trying to stay community oriented in our 'trades' - so, if someone was eligible to buy, then they would certainly be eligible to leave feedback.
That's not what I was suggesting. I think it's a great idea to be community-oriented in trading; I'm not sure that the guidelines are consistent with your vision. Nor do I think that the guidelines necessarily insure that someone is a member of the community-- which I think happens at different times for different people.

Quote:
Originally posted by HeatherSanders
We do realize that not everyone reads the guidelines with regards to buying on the TP, and they PM or email instead of posting b/c they know they do not meet the requirements.
Your intent is that all the buying/selling take place via posting? That is something that certainly doesn't happen, nor is there anything in the guidelines that states that if you are interested in what somebody's selling, that you should post that in a followup rather than PMing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by HeatherSanders
I don't understand how someone could target a newbie knowing they were immune. How would they be immune? If you have to have 2 months and 50 posts to buy or sale and to post feedback, then it is up to the seller to maintain the integrity of that guideline in their transactions, right?
Again, it's not stated that you can't buy from the TP if you don't meet the requirements. So you PM the seller; seller scopes out your reg date and post numbers, "sells" to you, cheats you, and there you are.

Karla
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#12 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by lifetapestry
Again, it's not stated that you can't buy from the TP if you don't meet the requirements. So you PM the seller; seller scopes out your reg date and post numbers, "sells" to you, cheats you, and there you are.
Karla~ From what I understand you are not supposed to use the tp at all unless you meet the requirements:

"This board is a community service forum for members of the MotheringDotCommune Discussion Boards of Mothering Magazine. Please take the time to become an active posting member of the boards before taking advantage of this forum. New member posts will be deleted without notification as will posts which violate any of the stated rules. To be considered an active member you should introduce yourself to the community on the Pleased To Meet You board or the Finding Your Tribe board, should have a minimum of 50 posts to your name, and should be registered for at least 2 months. Please respect this and our desire that only sincere, established, and active community members be permitted to use this board. Should a member register and meet the criteria for the board and then proceed to post almost exclusively to the Trading Post that will be grounds for removing that member's access to the Trading Post. "

It just says that you need to be an active member before taking advantage of the forum, either buying or selling. That's my interpretation at least. It is a little vague, as it doesn't specifically mention buying or selling though so I do see your point.
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#13 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 01:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by pb_and_j
Karla~ From what I understand you are not supposed to use the tp at all unless you meet the requirements:

It just says that you need to be an active member before taking advantage of the forum, either buying or selling. That's my interpretation at least. It is a little vague, as it doesn't specifically mention buying or selling though so I do see your point.
Yep, I read that! (and I did say that now I see that as a possible interpretation).

Forgive me, I'm trained as a lawyer-- and it is vague, and it would so be raked over the coals in any legal proceeding. And it is not explicit enough, IMO.

Karla
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#14 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes it is vague... perhaps it should be changed to state more clearly what the rules are.

Karla, I didn't know you were trained as a lawyer! You go girl!
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#15 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 03:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by HeatherSanders

it is up to the seller to maintain the integrity of that guideline in their transactions, right?
My problem with this is that I post my FS stuff on other boards as well, so I really have no idea which place they saw the item/s when they email me.
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#16 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 03:35 PM
 
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Karla,

Thanks for bringing to my attention in your 'lawyer-esque' way that it isn't clear. I didn't write them and don't moderate that forum, so I have to say that I don't know those forward and backwards.

I'm going to bring Cynthia's attention to this thread though so she can see how the guidelines are being read. I'm sure she and tnrsmom want them to read clearly and want them to work within the guidelines of the community, but obviously be beneficial to the community.

Again - thank you!
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#17 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 06:16 PM
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Yes it is vague. We have no clear restriction against selling to non-criteria meeting members who contact you by PM. It is the member's decision to sell to whomever they choose, even if that person is a brand new member of MDC.

We did place the rules of the Trading Post and the MDC Co-op with the intention that initial contact would take place on the board. Though our posting criteria of 50 posts and 60 days registered is not a guarantee of a successful trade or sale it is a measure we placed to provide the community with a way of getting to know the person they are considering trading with. And to keep it a community service board. In fact we have removed privileges of members who reach the criteria and then post exclusively or almost exclusively to the TP. The board is for the use of our active members and not for those who join just for TP access.

We just don't feel it our position to specify who you can and can't sell to. However, we do specify who can post to the board. The sale is up to the individual to decide. BUT, should a member decide to sell to someone who does not meet the board criteria, or if a new member makes contact off the board to make a purchase, we do consider the individual choosing to ignore the criteria we have set at their own risk. So perhaps that needs to be clarified.

Anything else unclear that we need to reflect or reword in our guidelines?

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#18 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 10:17 PM
 
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Darn, I thought I was within the guidelines....I've been reading the discussion boards much longer than I've been a member, and I've been a member for--I think--almost a year, and I just can't seem to post enough to get to 50. Bummer for us "quieter" members--I'm here multiple times a day, generally, in at least 4 fora. I did think it was okay to PM folks selling stuff on the TP.

Sigh, one day I'll reach 50...

Rae
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#19 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 10:32 PM
 
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rae, go say hi to a bunch of new members in the intro forum! One way to get more posts...
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#20 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 11:05 PM
 
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oh, good idea! thanks!!

rae
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#21 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 11:32 PM
 
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or we could just talk about it some more and you're that much closer.

I do agree. I think the posting requirement is too high. I think length of membership is more important, I was pleased to see that made longer. We have lots of quiet members. I myself lurked here and for over a year had less than 40 posts. (before the Big Crash). Look at me now! LOL!
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#22 of 29 Old 06-05-2003, 11:34 PM
 
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It states
Quote:
" Please take the time to become an active posting member of the boards before taking advantage of this forum.
and then defines being an active member:
Quote:
To be considered an active member you should introduce yourself to the community on the Pleased To Meet You board or the Finding Your Tribe board, should have a minimum of 50 posts to your name, and should be registered for at least 2 months. Please respect this and our desire that only sincere, established, and active community members be permitted to use this board.
Personally, I don't find the phrase "taking advantage of this forum" to be too vague to understand, unless one just hasn't read it carefully. To "take advantage" means to use the service available in this particular context. Both sellers and buyers are taking advantage of the service the forum offers if they are reading or posting or buying as a result of reading the messages posted there, are they not? How else would one be able to interpret "taking advantage of this forum"? What advantage IS there in a trading forum if there is not someone participating by reading the posts and contacting the person?
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#23 of 29 Old 06-06-2003, 12:03 AM
 
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I have to chime and agree that 50 posts is a lot to insist upon in order to be an eligible member of the mothering community! I love to check the boards as much as I can, but usually I am nursing or reading my three-year-old a book at the same time and so often can't manage to write much! My trouble is that I like to have a well-thought response and my brain is just not as swift as it once was! I've got a long way to go to reach the 50, but I am working at it!
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#24 of 29 Old 06-06-2003, 08:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kermit
It states

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
" Please take the time to become an active posting member of the boards before taking advantage of this forum.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

and then defines being an active member:

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"To be considered an active member . . .
It doesn't have anything to do with reading carefully. There are two things that make this vague. One is "active posting member" and then a definition of "active member". You assume they are the same thing. Are they? Who knows-- that's why it's vague. Clear communication requires using the same language when talking about the same thing, not tossing in extra words. Also, the use of the word "posting" in this sentence implies that the requirement is about posting somehow (as distinguished from reading on the forum).

The second thing that makes this sentence vague and unclear is the use of "taking advantage of this forum." The definition of "take advantage" is not only to "use" as you suggest, but has at least one other regular meaning in our culture, which is "to profit" or "to exploit" [quote from Websters New University], which suggests that sellers, not buyers, are the subject of this requirement.

A third aspect of this vagueness is context-- in buying and selling on the boards, buyers are more vulnerable to being ripped off than sellers are. Sellers can define the payments they will accept to prevent being ripped off (e.g. money orders and paypal), and don't need to fulfill their end of the bargain until the buyer has paid. Buyers, on the other hand, have to trust that the person they paid will actually send them the item(s) they paid for. Thus, it would make intuitive sense to require more of sellers on a board than it does of buyers. This fact also plays a role in interpreting the language of the requirements (above). If MDC wants to impose requirements on buyers, that should be explicitly stated.

I'd fix this vagueness problem with one sentence:

Existing, vague sentence:

" Please take the time to become an active posting member of the boards before taking advantage of this forum."

New sentence:

"Please take the time to become an active member of the boards before buying, selling, or trading on this forum."

Perhaps you (and other people) find the existing language perfectly adequate, and can construct a post-hoc rationale for why it's clear. But to suggest that anyone who doesn't agree with you can't "read carefully" is insulting.

Karla
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#25 of 29 Old 06-06-2003, 08:41 AM
 
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Stepping in to say that the OP (original post) on this thread was an expression of gratitude that MDC is not offering a feedback thread for the Trading Post.

It does not seem to be written with the intent of arguing the rules and guidelines set out for the forum or its subforums.

As Cynthia has said "We have no clear restriction against selling to non-criteria meeting members who contact you by PM. It is the member's decision to sell to whomever they choose, even if that person is a brand new member of MDC."

Obviously we cannot 'man' PMs (nor do we want to ). If a member eligible for trading sells to someone who does not meet the requirements set forth (50 posts and 60 days), then the elgible member is taking a risk outside of the recommendation of MDC.

Though it is vague regarding who can 'buy' - it is not at all vague regarding who can sell.

We specify who can post to The Trading Post. We specify who can post feedback.

If it is brought to our attention that a seller is purposely seeking out 'newbies' to sell to - handling it in a negative fashion - because they are aware that the newbie cannot leave feedback YET . . . that member will be banned from The Trading Post.

And if a newbie decides to buy at the Trading Post and disregards the guidelines - then, they are trading at the risk of not being able to leave feedback until they meet the criteria.

Please remember that at MDC the boards are manned by volunteers. We come from all walks of life and are not trained in verbage or the like, but run the boards to the best of our ability and with direction from our board administrator.

We always take all suggestions seriously and want to thank all the mommas on the board for their input.

Now, let's get back to the OP and please PM me or Cynthia Mosher with any questions or comments about the wording of the Trading Post/Feedback guidelines.
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#26 of 29 Old 06-06-2003, 09:05 AM
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I'm sorry to see this is becoming such a discussion of uncomfortable disagreement for some of our members. I will reword the TP posting guidelines to make it more straightforward and less confusing. But please understand that for some it will be crystal clear yet for others it will still be something that can be disputed and disagreed with. Any concerns or questions can be brought to me personally and I will do my best to explain our intent.

This thread is being moved to Questions and Suggestions where it is more fitting for the topic.

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#27 of 29 Old 06-06-2003, 01:02 PM
 
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My apologies. I should know not to argue with a lawyer. Not without equal training at least! lol I shouldn't argue at all, actually. Definitely a weakness of mine.

I don't always read these things carefully, so there was no implication intended that anyone "can't" read carefully. I'm sorry it was taken that way.

The rules are vague and can be better worded, but I still think the intended interpretation should be obvious.

I also want to apologize, lifetapestry, for being too forward with my thoughts in PM. I was out of line. Please forgive me.
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#28 of 29 Old 06-06-2003, 06:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kermit
I also want to apologize, lifetapestry, for being too forward with my thoughts in PM. I was out of line. Please forgive me.
I appreciate the apology; thank you. No grudges or other hard feelings retained.

I know that I state my positions *strongly* and that it can come off as hostile or off-putting for those who aren't as comfortable with disagreement or confrontation. I'm sorry if my posts were upsetting to you.

But I think you need to understand that reasonable people can differ in their interpretations or their perceptions. I don't think that anyone has the ultimate truth key in their pocket.

Karla
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#29 of 29 Old 06-06-2003, 07:14 PM
 
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Thanks for accepting my apology, Karla.
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