Homebirth: why is it almost the same cost as a hospital? - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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#91 of 115 Old 07-13-2011, 03:03 AM
 
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i know someone personaly who lost a child in a home birth who now regrets this decision also the person asking about costs sounds like a case of desperation. Thats being said this person may choose a path like birthing at home without any assistance due to lack of money maybe without even a doula. i was simply also offering another way to look at the situation and costs and aid i really don't understand why everyone has to be on the attack whats right for me maybe right for others and may not. I'm fine with that but the reason we have Drs. with an education (not that they are all great all great) and social problems and pay taxes in this country are to help those in need. If cost is a concern and you need assistance that is why we have programs. I'm saying I don't believe in the homebirth for me( and maybe for some others) I have friends who have had homebirths. Cost was one of the issues for me as well, that's why I chose to comment and give my opinion to offer another experience another concern to think of. Having a profession than none at all or legal and illegal Dr. or doula, chep or inexpensive is part of the issue. I can only offer an opinion from what I know my own thoughts my own experience I don't understand why anyone has an issue with that i thought thats what forums were all about. if i leave you will be missing out i'm a very loving caring individual with my own history and way of viewing the world we all have something to offer for someone.Why are some of you so angry just as some see me as fearful???

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#92 of 115 Old 07-13-2011, 01:49 PM
 
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OP-

 

My MW/ND charged us $3000,  $200 tub rental and $75 for the HB kit.  That was for all pre-natal and 4 follow ups after birth.  I had excellent insurance through my employer at the time.  My MW suggested that I still apply for state medical for a supplemental, which I did.  If I remember correctly, in the end, we only paid the $200 for the tub rental out of pocket. 

 

I think, IMO...  it is important to choose what is most comfortable for you and not make it a financial choice.  We were on one income, didn't have a ton of $$, which was not my reasoning for choosing HB.  For me, I preferred the HB route for many reasons.  I appreciated being cared for by a person whom I knew and trusted, which is so darn important, for anyone.  I didn't want someone telling me what I had to do, on someone else's schedule- I mean around where I live, they do not deliver on Sundays.... are you kidding me?  Didn't want that type of pressure.  I am a private person and wanted the best scenario for our family. 

 

To me, birth is sacred.  I find nothing sacred about a hospital, however, I do understand the need. 

 

Also...  man....  you women are so darn smart!  Makes my head spin!  Medically speaking! 
 

weemom3...  Yes... we are all here to support another.  I did not find your first posts at all encouraging.  You are posting in a forum where the posters here are pretty passionate about HB.  I understand your friend lost a baby and I am sorry for her family, I get your concern.  I have a friend that lost a baby in the hospital and has since had 3 successful HBs.  It goes both ways.  You stating you do not believe in HB in this thread is not productive, sorry.  I am sure you are a nice person. 

 

 

 


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#93 of 115 Old 07-15-2011, 05:42 AM
 
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Someone posted this link on one of the parenting Yahoo groups I'm a part of.  I thought it pertinent to this conversation.  It's a break down of hospital costs (based on type of birth) by state.

 

http://transform.childbirthconnection.org/resources/datacenter/chargeschart/statecharges/


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#94 of 115 Old 07-15-2011, 04:59 PM
 
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wow. the price difference was pretty shocking from state to state.

 

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#95 of 115 Old 07-15-2011, 05:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by weemom3 View Post

whoa....i thought it was a group for all mothers???? with all different backgrounds and experiences and something to offer in the world, i was simply offering my thoughts from my own experiences. I don't see how you can speak or represent everyone's opinion thats on this sight "i don't see why you come Here if you don't believe in the home birth?" i'm fine not connecting with those who can't handle another's opinion or experience you sound young.



I'm perfectly capable of handling other people's opinions.  I was just curious about why you're reading threads in a forum dedicated to something you don't believe in, and seem to be pretty strongly against.

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#96 of 115 Old 07-18-2011, 12:28 PM
 
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I would NEVER have a normal vaginal birth in a hospital. In fact with my first child all I could think about was avoiding the hospital. Hospitals have contributed greatly to maternal and infant deaths due to too much intervention.

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Originally Posted by weemom3 View Post

I"m not trying to be judgmental here but I personally don't believe in the home birth. I have had 2 vaginal births with 2 excellent doctors and am happy that both of my sons are healthy. Had I not been in a hospital I could have lost one of them simply because i didn't have the medical tools necessary to save them. My youngest son came out so quickly that he had fluid in his lungs he was blue and didn't cry right away. Since I was waiting for his cry as my first son did this was a scary moment for us as they had to whisk him away to get him breathing. I don't believe that any should suffer the loss of a healthy infant due to a home birth. i would have been devastated had I lost either of my children. They are now 18 and 13 year old's. If money is an issue there are so many programs available for mom's and unborn children. Statewide programs to help individuals in need/ Medicaid. Never be too proud for help we all need each other and that is what those programs are for "those in need." If you make too much money to qualify then I say put it on the credit card,make payments or get a second job for the time being. Don't risk losing a perfectly full term or premature baby due to "the lack of tools available" in a home birth. Just saying...



 


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#97 of 115 Old 07-18-2011, 12:39 PM
 
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I would NEVER have a normal vaginal birth in a hospital. In fact with my first child all I could think about was avoiding the hospital. Hospitals have contributed greatly to maternal and infant deaths due to too much intervention.



 


And I would never, ever give birth at home. I've known several women now having had poor outcomes with their home births.

I had glorious, natural childbirths at the hospital with my CNM and if anything had gone wrong... the NICU was mere steps away. And no, I had no interventions of any kind.
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#98 of 115 Old 07-18-2011, 12:43 PM
 
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What about this data set? This is public CDC statistical data.

 

I think in US we have training standards that are far lower than those in Netherlends and England where home-birthing midwives are integrated into entire health care system and have strict, well define practice guidelines as far who is low risk and who is not.

 

DC WONDER 1999-2002: Early neonatal deaths–perinatal causes–41+ weeks gestation (otherwise low-risk)
Attendant Deaths Births Mortality Rate/1,000
CNM 21 170,074 0.12
MD 275 1,572,702 0.17
DO 15 82,964 0.18*
Other Midwife 7 13,626 0.51*

 

 

http://confutata.com/2009/07/29/midwives-mortality-rates/

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#99 of 115 Old 07-18-2011, 02:52 PM
 
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According to the link you posted, the asterisked values do not meet the CDC's standards for reliability and precision.  I imagine this could be because there weren't enough data points, the values were not statistically significant, the methods used to gather the data were not consistent or thorough, etc.  This is often the problem with statistical analysis of homebirth. 


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#100 of 115 Old 07-18-2011, 10:31 PM
 
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Yes, that is an interesting question. Why  is not accurate data about home birth is forwarded to CDC? Would not be the best to have the most accurate information, so the mother can make an informed choice one way to another.  I mean, hospital are compelled by law to collect and make public a lot of data. I can look at my local hospital info, compare it to another local hospital and see who gas the best mortality morbidty outcome for kidney transplant.  I really do not see any website where I can compare mortality morbidty state of one MW over another.

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#101 of 115 Old 07-19-2011, 04:51 AM
 
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Yes, a huge problem in this country!  Largely b/c so many midwives are practicing  illegally b/c our country cannot get it together to legalize midwifery in any sort of uniform way. Highly frustrating.


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#102 of 115 Old 07-19-2011, 07:24 AM
 
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OK well are you against HB? I wasn't even replying to anything you said I said what I would do b/c I was offended by wee's post essentially bashing HB.

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And I would never, ever give birth at home. I've known several women now having had poor outcomes with their home births.

I had glorious, natural childbirths at the hospital with my CNM and if anything had gone wrong... the NICU was mere steps away. And no, I had no interventions of any kind.


 


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#103 of 115 Old 07-19-2011, 07:37 PM
 
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Jaimee --

 

On the waterbirth point we were discussing -- this may be of interest...

 

A paper was written about a waterbirth newborn who died of Pseudomonas pneumonia and sepsis as a result of waterbirth in the American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology:

 

"It has been postulated that newborns will not breath or swallow while immersed in warm water, and that respiration will only be initiated on exposure to cold air. This has been used to support assertions that drowning and aspiration of water cannot occur with underwater delivery. However, animal studies have demonstrated that this reflex can be over-ridden, and given that respiratory movements occur in utero, it is difficult to see why this process would not continue in a neonate delivered into water. The documentation of cases of near drowning and respiratory distress with apparent aspiration of fluid would also be supportive of the occurrence of breathing under water." .

 

 

See here: 

 

http://journals.lww.com/amjforensicmedicine/Abstract/publishahead/Forensic_Issues_in_Cases_of_Water_Birth_Fatalities.99881.aspx 
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#104 of 115 Old 07-20-2011, 07:34 AM
 
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That is so weird b/c I had *planned* a water birth but once I was fully dilated I started panicking about being in the water so I hopped out and went onto the bed and gave birth there.


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#105 of 115 Old 07-20-2011, 08:11 AM
 
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Yes, a huge problem in this country!  Largely b/c so many midwives are practicing  illegally b/c our country cannot get it together to legalize midwifery in any sort of uniform way. Highly frustrating.


Yep. There's a set of direct entry midwives operating in my town right now. They got to be "direct entry" after a few courses and attending 20 births. Just 20!

That is what I like about my CNM. She was a in nursing school for four years and then her midwifery degree is a three years master's degree on top of that. She's very nearly spent as much time in school as any practicing OB. Now I know this doesn't appeal to some of you who hate doctors but I find all that education and training of my caregivers to be very reassuring.


We do need some uniform training for midwives so that ANY midwife a family may choose is fully trained and qualified to help.
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Yep. There's a set of direct entry midwives operating in my town right now. They got to be "direct entry" after a few courses and attending 20 births. Just 20!

That is what I like about my CNM. She was a in nursing school for four years and then her midwifery degree is a three years master's degree on top of that. She's very nearly spent as much time in school as any practicing OB. Now I know this doesn't appeal to some of you who hate doctors but I find all that education and training of my caregivers to be very reassuring.


We do need some uniform training for midwives so that ANY midwife a family may choose is fully trained and qualified to help.

 

Wow!  Only 20... that is nuts to me.  My MW is also a trained ND.  That was what sealed the deal for me. 
 

 


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#107 of 115 Old 07-20-2011, 12:52 PM
 
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That is so weird b/c I had *planned* a water birth but once I was fully dilated I started panicking about being in the water so I hopped out and went onto the bed and gave birth there.



I am sad to hear about water birth not being positive.  I really thought I did my homework.  I delivered in water and all was great.  Lucky I guess?


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#108 of 115 Old 07-20-2011, 12:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane93 View Post

Jaimee --

 

On the waterbirth point we were discussing -- this may be of interest...

 

A paper was written about a waterbirth newborn who died of Pseudomonas pneumonia and sepsis as a result of waterbirth in the American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology:

 

"It has been postulated that newborns will not breath or swallow while immersed in warm water, and that respiration will only be initiated on exposure to cold air. This has been used to support assertions that drowning and aspiration of water cannot occur with underwater delivery. However, animal studies have demonstrated that this reflex can be over-ridden, and given that respiratory movements occur in utero, it is difficult to see why this process would not continue in a neonate delivered into water. The documentation of cases of near drowning and respiratory distress with apparent aspiration of fluid would also be supportive of the occurrence of breathing under water." .

 

 

See here: 

 

http://journals.lww.com/amjforensicmedicine/Abstract/publishahead/Forensic_Issues_in_Cases_of_Water_Birth_Fatalities.99881.aspx 


I wasn't able to find it...  may just not see it as I am super tired today.  I am now feeling horrible I risked this.  I found our birth to be very positive and my kiddo extremely healthy.  Scary. 

 


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#109 of 115 Old 07-21-2011, 04:01 PM
 
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I am now feeling horrible I risked this.  I found our birth to be very positive and my kiddo extremely healthy.  Scary. 

 

Well, FWIW I still believe that water birth is safe.  I haven't had the ability to read the article Jane posted to know if there are any other complicating factors involved with that particular death.  But I find it very hard to believe that hospitals would allow water births with all the litigation and cost it would  involve if they were deemed uniformly unsafe. There is one, maybe even two hospitals in just my area that allow water births.  Then there are all the birth centers that allow water births and they face even more legal challenges than hospitals do.  I talked with my mw today about this (and I've spoken with several other mw's as well in the past) and she reiterated what I had already felt about it: that it is safe.  She suggested I search for a Cochran report on it which I will attempt to do when I have a minute.

 


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#110 of 115 Old 07-21-2011, 04:29 PM
 
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I can't find the article that Jane posted either. Perhaps she'd like to post the title of the article so that people can search for a full-text version.

 

Honestly, looking at this journal, these case studies are of freak accidents and are certainly not generalizable. This journal contains articles with titles that I don't even want to mention because pregnant women are reading this forum, but it goes to say that we're not using this journal's case studies to scare women from birthing in a hospital because their OB could possibly use a vacuum extractor and cause the death of their baby.

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#111 of 115 Old 07-21-2011, 05:04 PM
 
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well, i'd like to know what hospital only charges $5000-$7500.  i just received the breakdown of charges for the natural hospital birth of my son. 

 

the total was $19,089.50.  $4000 for a midwife sounds like a steal.

 

 

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Quote:
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Well, FWIW I still believe that water birth is safe.  I haven't had the ability to read the article Jane posted to know if there are any other complicating factors involved with that particular death.  But I find it very hard to believe that hospitals would allow water births with all the litigation and cost it would  involve if they were deemed uniformly unsafe. There is one, maybe even two hospitals in just my area that allow water births.  Then there are all the birth centers that allow water births and they face even more legal challenges than hospitals do.  I talked with my mw today about this (and I've spoken with several other mw's as well in the past) and she reiterated what I had already felt about it: that it is safe.  She suggested I search for a Cochran report on it which I will attempt to do when I have a minute.

 


I never thought until these posts... that our water birth was negative.   In my state, water birth in a hosp is a no go....  you can labor but when you are ready to deliver... they pull you out.  I cannot imagine.  YIKES!  I feel and will always advocate a water/home birth.  I suppose that there is always a negative to everything... for reasons that I may never understand.  Ours was so positive I shout it from the roof tops when someone wants to hear it. 

 

We set up our home for every scenario... I had no idea where I would be most comfortable.  Set up our bed in our bedroom, our futon in our living room and our huge bathroom with our tub.  I ended up wanting the tub. 

 


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#113 of 115 Old 07-22-2011, 05:46 AM
 
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I never thought until these posts... that our water birth was negative.   ....Ours was so positive I shout it from the roof tops when someone wants to hear it. 

 


I say continue to feel positive about your water birth and continue shouting it from the roof tops!  At some point one of us will find a review of water births and their safety- I'm sure of it.  One incident does not make water birth inherently unsafe.  More information needs to be presented, but not here... b/c we've hijacked the OP's thread!  redface.gif

 


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#114 of 115 Old 07-22-2011, 11:26 AM
 
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I say continue to feel positive about your water birth and continue shouting it from the roof tops!  At some point one of us will find a review of water births and their safety- I'm sure of it.  One incident does not make water birth inherently unsafe.  More information needs to be presented, but not here... b/c we've hijacked the OP's thread!  redface.gif

 




I agree totally with this!  And i wonder ...OP might have HAD that baby by now!!! OP??  is it a boy or a girl?  OP?  Home, hospital or unassisted???   Time to chime back in!

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#115 of 115 Old 07-23-2011, 07:35 AM
 
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If you'd like to continue discussing water birth, I have created a new thread in the Birth and Beyond Forum: http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1322632/water-birth-safety.


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