Poll- Do you support "underground" midwives? - Page 9 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#241 of 285 Old 03-26-2012, 07:41 AM
 
Slmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzbuzz View Post

 

I think every woman has the right to make her own health choices and I respect that right.  However, I think there is a lot of natural childbirth activism masquerading as reliable scientific information out there on the net. 

 

I have run into people who have researched and read and who have believed things as diverse as that as long at the baby is attached to the placenta it cannot suffocate (missing that little detail that amongst other things the placenta still needs to be attached to the mother), think that placenta previa can be handled at home, etc., etc.  These women are being sold a bill of goods just as much as all those people who were told before the crash that sure, you can afford a $500,000 house with no downpayment.

 

It is because I am a feminist that I am so concerned about this issue.  In fact, I find some aspects of the natural childbirth movement to be concerning from a feminist perspective (that one must give birth vaginally to be a "real" woman, that voluntary suffering of pain in childbirth has a particular moral worth or is a test of womanliness, etc.)

 

 I consider myself a feminist. I have a problem with women being stonewalled or prevented from legitimate life choices, (here - choice of hcp/setting for birth). 

There is a lot of bad info about everything on the internet, I hope most people can discern that for themselves or re-evaluate as they learn more. I really feel that the notion that women can/should not be able to discern knowledge/information for themselves is infantalizing. 

 

I find mainstream childbirth to be very concerning from a feminist perspective. I guess we probably both have valid views in some respects.

Slmommy is offline  
#242 of 285 Old 03-26-2012, 10:10 AM
 
Buzzbuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

"I really feel that the notion that women can/should not be able to discern knowledge/information for themselves is infantalizing. "

 

I don't feel that way any more than I felt infantalized about having to hire an attorney licensed to practice law in my state to prepare my will rather "being allowed" to hire some guy down the street who happens to have read some trusts and estates textbooks and prepared his own will to do it. 

 

I also don't feel infantalized that the restaurants I patronize are inspected for cleanliness and food handling safety.

 

So why is one supposed to be infantalizing and not the other?

 

 

 

Queen of Thorns likes this.

I support homebirth that meets the qualifications set forth in the AAP's 2013 policy on homebirth.

Buzzbuzz is offline  
#243 of 285 Old 03-26-2012, 10:44 AM
 
Slmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Attorney licensure and restaurant codes do not impose significant challenges on the individual in terms of bodily autonomy, informed consent, and private healthcare concerns. Birthing can have profound physical and emotional impacts on a woman, so I would prefer to leave most of the hcp decisions in her hands - and this issue affects ONLY women, also unlike your other two examples. 

 

Should I decide to eat over at my friend's house, should her kitchen need to be inspected? I believe self-representation in court is allowed.

 

 

Slmommy is offline  
#244 of 285 Old 03-26-2012, 11:07 AM
 
Storm Bride's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 27,300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzbuzz View Post

 

I don't feel that way any more than I felt infantalized about having to hire an attorney licensed to practice law in my state to prepare my will rather "being allowed" to hire some guy down the street who happens to have read some trusts and estates textbooks and prepared his own will to do it. 

 

If I know that the guy down the block has only read some trust and estates textbooks, and prepared his own will, and I want to pay him to do mine, why shouldn't I be allowed to do so?

 



 


Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

Storm Bride is offline  
#245 of 285 Old 03-26-2012, 12:00 PM
 
mrsbernstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 731
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I used to support underground midwives.  And then I birthed with one.  And my son will pay for HER mistakes for the REST OF HIS LIFE.

 

But midwives are so "sacred", that I know now one would listen to me.

 

Mrs B

Queen of Thorns likes this.
mrsbernstein is offline  
#246 of 285 Old 03-26-2012, 12:57 PM
 
Slmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I haven't seen any posts in this thread asserting that mws are sacred. I didn't even birth with a mw, I don't really know why I am arguing here anymore. I really believe that individuals should have the ability to make decisions about their own healthcare, and I do not agree with one-size-fits-all systems regarding birth options. I find the difference in state mw legalities to be arbitrary. 

 

Honestly, I think if cpms were legal in the states they are not, there would be better outcomes. I don't think making midwifery illegal is going to stop women from choosing that and I doubt that it makes it safer. I don't think that limiting legitimate options is the answer here. 

 

Slmommy is offline  
#247 of 285 Old 03-26-2012, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
lovebeingamomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: RI
Posts: 1,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Your story is important.  Midwives are not sacred, they are human beings who take on a lot of responsibility- too much sometimes.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsbernstein View Post

I used to support underground midwives.  And then I birthed with one.  And my son will pay for HER mistakes for the REST OF HIS LIFE.

 

But midwives are so "sacred", that I know now one would listen to me.

 

Mrs B



 

Queen of Thorns likes this.

Christian SAHM & birth doula.
lovebeingamomma is offline  
#248 of 285 Old 03-26-2012, 01:22 PM
 
Storm Bride's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 27,300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsbernstein View Post

I used to support underground midwives.  And then I birthed with one.  And my son will pay for HER mistakes for the REST OF HIS LIFE.

 

But midwives are so "sacred", that I know now one would listen to me.

 

Mrs B



I don't think midwives are sacred, and I'm sorry a midwife's mistakes affected your son so badly.

 

I think the thing that bothers me about this whole topic is the either/or vibe that develops. In your case, using an underground midwife hurt your son. It's happened in other cases, too. But, in other cases, using an OB has hurt a baby or mother, or both. When we talk about underground midwives, there tends to be an underlying vibe of "if all providers were licensed, these mistakes just wouldn't happen". It's like the whole "underground midwives will be thinking about what's in their best interests, not in the best interests of the mother or baby", which ignores the fact that OBs (not all of them) do the exact same thing. How many times have OBs said, "the only c-section I can be sued for is the one I don't do", or variations on that theme? That's not about mother and baby. That's about self-interest.

 

Underground midwives can, and do, screw up in awful ways, that hurt mothers and babies. But, so do licensed midwives. So do family doctors. So do OBs. Licensing doesn't make that go away, because licensing doesn't take away humanity, and humans make mistakes...mistakes of competence, mistakes of fatigue, mistakes of hubris...all kinds of mistakes.


Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

Storm Bride is offline  
#249 of 285 Old 03-26-2012, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
lovebeingamomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: RI
Posts: 1,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Maybe it's time we end the discussion, I think everything that could be said has been said.  I'm done for now anyway.  


Christian SAHM & birth doula.
lovebeingamomma is offline  
#250 of 285 Old 03-26-2012, 03:56 PM
 
wellforth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Urbana, Illinois
Posts: 212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Sorry I'm jumping in after the "end the discussion" post.  Bad form, I know.   If you want a birth with every known technology your local hospital can afford, there's that option.  My illegal home birth midwife had been an OB nurse for a long time before she started attending home births with an experienced illegal midwife in a nearby Amish community.  I felt she was more qualified than the legal hospital midwives, and shared a similar birth philosophy.

 

I did not take pain meds and I did not suffer.  The pain was difficult at times, but it was spiritually important to me.  Obviously, it's not a test or a challenge, nor does it make me a better or real woman.  I could go off about how it fits in with my personal philosophy, but I'll spare you!

 

So, I was the first generation of my family to be born in a hospital.  I've heard my mom's story of my birth, and I'll spare you that too.  My aunts and uncles and mother were all born at home, without the use of even a midwife.  Even if she had one fatality or none, it makes no difference on the correctness of her choice.  She did what she felt was necessary for her and her baby at that time.  I think that is really what this issue is about:  choice.  Do we allow someone other than ourselves to make an informed choice?  Can we be allowed to enjoy or grieve the outcome without judgment of our intelligence, given the direction of our actions? 

 

carey

wellforth is offline  
#251 of 285 Old 03-26-2012, 07:18 PM
 
Buzzbuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

"Underground midwives can, and do, screw up in awful ways, that hurt mothers and babies. But, so do licensed midwives. So do family doctors. So do OBs. Licensing doesn't make that go away, because licensing doesn't take away humanity, and humans make mistakes...mistakes of competence, mistakes of fatigue, mistakes of hubris...all kinds of mistakes."

 

I understand that everyone is human (I've made a mistake or two in my life!) but what I care about is the RATE at which someone is making mistakes.  Phrasing things like the above just makes it sound as if all providers are on the same playing field and that is clearly false.  There are people who make one or two major mistakes over a career and there are those who make one or 2 a month.

 

A good licensing system should help to weed out the incompetent providers so that the volume of such human mistakes is reduced.

 

Just because a system does not ensure perfect results does not mean it does not add value.

Queen of Thorns likes this.

I support homebirth that meets the qualifications set forth in the AAP's 2013 policy on homebirth.

Buzzbuzz is offline  
#252 of 285 Old 03-26-2012, 07:42 PM
 
Slmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzbuzz View Post


I understand that everyone is human (I've made a mistake or two in my life!) but what I care about is the RATE at which someone is making mistakes.  Phrasing things like the above just makes it sound as if all providers are on the same playing field and that is clearly false.  There are people who make one or two major mistakes over a career and there are those who make one or 2 a month.

 

 

There are people who make one or two major mistakes over a career and there are those who make one or 2 a month.

 

A good licensing system should help to weed out the incompetent providers so that the volume of such human mistakes is reduced.

 


Could you please provide the link where you found the information that cpms practicing in non-licensing states are making grave errors at the rate of 2/month?

How do you purpose to change the licensing for ob/gyns, family physicians, cnms, nurses and hospitals with less than stellar statistical outcomes?

What do you think should be done about women who uc?

Maybe we should also license *who* can become pregnant - drug use, bad diet, smoking, maternal age and health, may affect rates. 

Slmommy is offline  
#253 of 285 Old 03-26-2012, 09:58 PM
 
member234098's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Behind you.
Posts: 3,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Q
member234098 is offline  
#254 of 285 Old 03-27-2012, 03:32 AM
 
wellforth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Urbana, Illinois
Posts: 212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

If my unlicensed midwife was making mistakes, it'd be known.  This practice thrives completely word of mouth, and is totally reputation dependent.  Licensure does not ensure competency, as the multitude of malpractice suits indicate.

 

I would love my midwife to be licensed!  But it's not legal.  I'm not going to deny myself or anyone else the option for that reason.  I really don't understand the opposition to unlicensed midwives.  It provides a choice that people do not otherwise have. 

 

carey

wellforth is offline  
#255 of 285 Old 03-27-2012, 05:18 AM
 
Buzzbuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

"If my unlicensed midwife was making mistakes, it'd be known.  This practice thrives completely word of mouth, and is totally reputation dependent.  Licensure does not ensure competency, as the multitude of malpractice suits indicate."

 

As you so sure?  I have heard a number of homebirth loss/injury moms (both on this site and elsewhere on the web) talk about feeling forced to shut up about their negative experiences or end up alienating their community.    Also, some women may feel that they should not report negative experiences because "our midwives are under siege" or under pressure not to make homebirth midwifery "look bad".


 


I support homebirth that meets the qualifications set forth in the AAP's 2013 policy on homebirth.

Buzzbuzz is offline  
#256 of 285 Old 03-27-2012, 05:42 AM
 
Slmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzbuzz View Post

As you so sure?  I have heard a number of homebirth loss/injury moms (both on this site and elsewhere on the web) talk about feeling forced to shut up about their negative experiences or end up alienating their community.    Also, some women may feel that they should not report negative experiences because "our midwives are under siege" or under pressure not to make homebirth midwifery "look bad".

 

 

I don't doubt that this sometimes happens. I don't see how leaving mw illegal in some states aids transparency.

 

Lovebeingamomma was stating she was afraid a bad outcome would almost certainly be picked up by the media and ruin the reputation of hb in her state, and yet she's not aware of a case in 30 years. (not saying there hasn't been ANY, but if there were really 2 bad outcomes/month by individual undergound mws as you implied...)

 

You are cautioning women about getting their info about childbirth and hcps online and yet you also seem to base your opinion about cpms from online community boards as well. 

 

Slmommy is offline  
#257 of 285 Old 03-27-2012, 06:47 AM
 
calanagear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phuket, Thailand
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

heck yes!!! :)


unschooling mom, family travel enthusiast and holistic living advocate

 

 

calanagear is offline  
#258 of 285 Old 03-27-2012, 10:38 AM
 
wellforth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Urbana, Illinois
Posts: 212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

 

Quote:
heck yes!!! :)

 

 

'Nough said!  Matter of opinion for personal choice!

member234098 likes this.
wellforth is offline  
#259 of 285 Old 03-27-2012, 03:28 PM
 
mrsbernstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 731
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

That's just it!  WHY hasn't my story and the story of my son been picked-up by the papers?  Because of the FEAR that I have as a back-lash from the homebirthing community.

 

HB is so protected that stories that give any negative light are shoved to the background.

 

MrsB

Queen of Thorns likes this.
mrsbernstein is offline  
#260 of 285 Old 03-27-2012, 04:04 PM
 
littlest birds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: a dream-filled fixer-upper
Posts: 2,952
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

MrsB, I don't see childbirth losses of infants being picked up by papers, generally, with any kind of practitioner.  I think that is basically a good thing, as it invites the judgments of the unqualified about blame and fault.  If information is incomplete or inaccurate and that inaccurate reporting causes harm, reporters could get in a lot of trouble too. 

 

I, personally, would hate for a personal tragedy to be publicized, and I would hate for my loss to affect people negatively (the entire homebirth community) who shouldn't be so affected.  I would hate to have my loss be used to judge homebirths and other practitioners negatively because of people's misunderstandings and assumptions. 

 

I imagine the main reason people don't want to draw media attention to such stories is because of possible unfair and unreasonable consequences for many people who have no connection whatsoever to the errors or the loss. 


ME&treehugger.gifHE... loving our: wild.gifdd(18) ~~violin.gifds(13) read.gifdd(13)~~ peace.gifdd(10)
 
 

littlest birds is offline  
#261 of 285 Old 03-27-2012, 04:25 PM
 
Slmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

There were 2 that immediately came to mind... I've seen extensive criticism to these women/families in media and blogs.

Both are out of Australia? I guess it makes a bigger story that they are advocates.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/02/02/death-after-home-birth-raises-questions/

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/four-dead-in-home-birthing-including-joyous-birth-advocate/story-e6freuy9-1225697745818

 

The abc one was recent (maternal death), and all over my fb in a not good way.

 

ETA: I really do not think there is a homebither conspiracy to keep these types of stories out of the media. (I can see some geographical locations having way more hb and mw than others and that maybe causing an issue, but I don't think that is the majority of the US)... if mws were that powerful, why would they still be illegal in some states?

Slmommy is offline  
#262 of 285 Old 03-28-2012, 12:52 PM
 
Jenga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Mid-Atlantic area
Posts: 145
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsbernstein View Post

That's just it!  WHY hasn't my story and the story of my son been picked-up by the papers?  Because of the FEAR that I have as a back-lash from the homebirthing community.

 

HB is so protected that stories that give any negative light are shoved to the background.

 

MrsB


I would definitely agree with that. I had a horrible experience with a homebirth midwife and "her former clients" harassed me over it. Because even if she made mistakes, having bad midwives is better than having no midwives and the birthing community needed any midwives it could get even if they made mistakes or were hurting people.

To file a complaint with the board of nursing would be participating in the "war on women" and would make me a vile, disgusting person who wanted to hurt women and children.

Yes, nearly word for word.

 

I am not afraid of the local birthing community, so I did file a complaint.... only to find out that she has several in my state and a couple in at least one other state so multiple investigations are ongoing. Great. I wish people believed more in the truth and less in circling the wagons when things go wrong. I wish I had been told that this midwife wasn't who she said she was because I could have been saved a lot of problems.

 

I was told by another person that it's important to realize that my negative story can affect how others see homebirth or midwives so I should be as gentle as possible and use positive words. But my situation wasn't positive at all and I won't lie to people. I still support midwives (and mine was supposed to be a CNM with a license) and I support legalization of CPMs but I sincerely dislike the backlash or pressure people feel when they share less than rosy stories. Those are their stories to share and they are entitled to share them. We're supposed to be supporting women and that means also supporting the ones who were damaged - not just telling them to grin and bear it or to shut their mouths lest they "hurt the community."

 

Queen of Thorns likes this.
Jenga is offline  
#263 of 285 Old 03-28-2012, 04:59 PM
 
Slmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Jenga, I remember reading your story as it was happening... what has happened with the nursing board?

 

I guess, worse, that if the media did pick up a bad outcome hb story... not only is hb community worried about its survival, some anti-hb might be laying down the judgement fairly harshly for mother choosing hb in the first place. I saw that with those two australian stories - it was all mother's fault for wanting a hb.

 

...So, how is it possible to legalize cpms, change whatever regulations people want to change, change consumer protection measures... while still "protecting" hb and still allowing cpms to operate differently from cnms - still allowed to do hb, not needing ob/gyn supervision, being able to attend range of homebirths - vbac, twins, breech, etc. ??

Slmommy is offline  
#264 of 285 Old 03-28-2012, 09:31 PM
 
Buzzbuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

So some posters here have taken the (dare I say it) republican position that the effects of non-regulation are cured by information.

 

But negative homebirth outcomes evidently shouldn't be reported in the news.

 

And illegal midwives are not subject to the review of any licensing agency.

 

And illegal midwives don't have to report their outcomes to any third party that might be tracking their results.

 

And CPMs and illegal midwives are generally immune from suit (they are uncollectible since they don't keep malpractice insurance) so you can't search court records for information.

 

And illegal midwives are not subject to peer review, or mortality and morbidity conferences as is typically imposed in the hospital framework and their hospital privileges can't be removed since they have none.

 

So where is this information supposed to come from?  Yelp?  Of course, I have heard of some review sites removing negative reviews when threatened with legal action, so I'm not sure how reliable to call that...

 

I think reporting on things like this:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2038746/Midwives-ignored-doctors-instructions-scandal-hit-Cumbria-maternity-unit.html

 

must be considered in the public interest.

 

 


I support homebirth that meets the qualifications set forth in the AAP's 2013 policy on homebirth.

Buzzbuzz is offline  
#265 of 285 Old 03-29-2012, 04:00 AM
 
Slmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I am not a journalist, nor "knowledgable" about journalistic principles, but I would think, in general, it wouldn't be a very nice idea to automatically publically publish all bad outcome birthing events (hospital too, because why just hb?) One pp here talks about her unnecessary c/s done against her will... I think that would also be of public interest but what media outlet would publish that??

 

Your link is from uk where mw are legal, and Jenga's problems involved a cnm.

 

So I guess we are just going in circles here, because I think if someone is going to choose to hire an "illegal" or "underground" or the rosy painted "unregulated" mw, they need to understand that the mw is just that - illegal or unregulated = no peer review, no reporting board, no licensure. Plenty of women here have posted that they understand this and chose it anyway. If I were trying to hire an illegal mw I would be more interested in the mw's experiences, how she handles situations - especially transfers, and speaking to former clients and other birthing professionals than looking on Yelp.

 

If anyone has any opinions to the questions I previously posted, I would be interested to hear. I don't see these things as politically possible or happening anytime soon.

 

"...So, how is it possible to legalize cpms, change whatever regulations people want to change, change consumer protection measures... while still "protecting" hb and still allowing cpms to operate differently from cnms - still allowed to do hb, not needing ob/gyn supervision, being able to attend range of homebirths - vbac, twins, breech, etc. ??"

Slmommy is offline  
#266 of 285 Old 03-29-2012, 01:31 PM
 
littlest birds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: a dream-filled fixer-upper
Posts: 2,952
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

AFAIK Freedom from regulation is the only thing that allows midwives to offer options like twin homebirths and HBAC and other things doctors and the medical establishment don't approve of to parents who want those options.  It's a LOT to lose.

 

I really, really want to operate outside of the mainstream medical system.  That can only mean nonregulated noninsured or else homebirth options are destroyed by bringing into exactly the same system.  Insurers won't insure those horribly risky births happening at home, and that's a fact.  The only regulated standards I see happening are the same ones that have made birthing in hospitals the crapshoot of potential disasters and violations that it is now.

 

The way things are now, as a society we are quite incapable of creating regulation that has any room for midwives to be midwives as I know them.  By the time you have enough regulation and insurance and oversight to make enough people happy, midwives won't even have any real decision-making left.

 

Now, some of what you are suggesting would be possible, BUT ONLY if a whole lot of other things are different structurally first.  With the kinds of systemic issues in our health care system and politics and layers of legal issues connected with it plus the rampant high intervention body-disrespecting approaches everywhere one turns, I simply do not believe any good could come of regulatory efforts here any time soon.   

Slmommy likes this.

ME&treehugger.gifHE... loving our: wild.gifdd(18) ~~violin.gifds(13) read.gifdd(13)~~ peace.gifdd(10)
 
 

littlest birds is offline  
#267 of 285 Old 03-29-2012, 04:21 PM
 
Slmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Littlest Birds, what you wrote is pretty much my understanding/take on the issue as well. Unfortunately.

Slmommy is offline  
#268 of 285 Old 03-29-2012, 04:35 PM
 
member234098's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Behind you.
Posts: 3,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

At

Slmommy likes this.
member234098 is offline  
#269 of 285 Old 03-29-2012, 04:50 PM
 
Youngfrankenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,273
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I can't face this thread anymore.  It's making me tired....  I never suggested that any homebirth with a bad outcome should be buried....ugh

littlest birds likes this.

Mama to 4. winner.jpghomebirth.jpg
Youngfrankenstein is offline  
#270 of 285 Old 03-29-2012, 05:32 PM
 
Drummer's Wife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Land of Enchantment
Posts: 11,793
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
About homebirth tragedies or injuries making the 5 o'clock news: That *would* put a negative focus on midwives. Just as if every time there was a stillbirth or birth injury in a hospital, it was picked up by the media, those OB's or CNM's and nurses and hospitals would be looked down upon. It's just not newsworthy, in most circumstances. Is it necessary to warn the public every time?

I can tell you I work at a busy mother-baby unit in a birth center attached to a well-known and trusted hospital. Birth can be dangerous. Sometimes human error plays a role. Sometimes nature. Babies end up in Nicu every single day. Sometimes babies don't make it through the birth. Sadly, one night they lost 3 during the same shift. Granted, that's extreme, and two babies were micro-preemies, and the other was a full-term loss. I'm not privy to the details, not that I would share them if I was, but I can't imagine broadcasting every lost baby on the news.

Obviously, just due to high risk and high rates, hospitals lose more babies for a variety of reasons than homebirth midwives do. Its always tragic, but not a reason to get rid of or point fingers at one particular type of health care provider. We as women have to make a choice we feel comfortable with - and of course there are risks all around. Whether that's an underground midwife who will attend a vbamc's or an OB with a high percentage of c-sections a month. Or someone we trust in between. I guess I support anything that gives women plenty of options.


ribboncesarean.gif cesareans happen.
Drummer's Wife is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off