Thinking about telling a lie to my midwife.... - Mothering Forums

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Old 09-10-2011, 05:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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HI. Living abroad- thinking of having a midwife attend homebirth here. Last pregnancy was 100%perfect no problems, easy fast labor ect. 

 

The system here will prevent you from birthing at home past 41.5 weeks. MAJOR pressure is put on you induce when you go past your due date. I had 2 friends end up with  c-sections after planned homebirths  this summer due to failed inductions for being over the due date....

 

I feel 100% ok with letting my body go into labor, when ever that comes.

 

I am thinking about telling my midwife at the first prenatal that my LMP was 2 weeks after it actually was. that way I buy myself an extra 2 weeks at the later end of the pregnancy. I dont plan on having any ultrasounds, so I am hoping I will be able to get away with this........

 

wrong or protecting my own interests? 

 

COuld I still get away with it if I have a 20~ week US to check placenta placement? 


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Old 09-10-2011, 08:50 AM
 
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I would try to play it safe without ultrasound. It's sad that you can't homebirth past 41 weeks. That's STUPID! You're protecting what you feel is right for you and your baby by lying. It's not wrong if YOU feel it's in both of your best interests.

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Old 09-10-2011, 09:17 AM
 
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The lie could work against you if you happen to go early.  I don't know about the laws in your area, but I'm guessing that if "the system" won't let you homebirth past 41.5 weeks, it probably also won't let you homebirth before X weeks (probably between 36-38).  So, if you were to go into labor at 38 weeks, but they midwife thought you were only 36 weeks that could also keep you from having a homebirth.

 

IMO, it would best and safest to tell the truth.


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Old 09-10-2011, 09:57 AM
 
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What if you lie about your dates and then go into labor at 37 weeks and now your midwife thinks you are having a premature baby?

 

I do not condone lying to your care provider. You are asking her to take on a lot of responsibility with your care and she deserves to have all the most accurate information possible to make sure she gives the best care possible. This goes for midwives, OBs, family practice, etc. I totally understand the WANT to do so, but I would strongly recommend against it.


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Old 09-11-2011, 07:01 PM
 
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Are your cycles particularly long? I Think it would be fine to adjust for date of ovulation. If your cycles are 32 days for instance, you could say you menstruated 4 days later than you did. But, honestly, two weeks is a pretty big difference. Did you go late with your first?

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Old 09-13-2011, 08:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ameliabedelia View Post

The lie could work against you if you happen to go early.  I don't know about the laws in your area, but I'm guessing that if "the system" won't let you homebirth past 41.5 weeks, it probably also won't let you homebirth before X weeks (probably between 36-38).  So, if you were to go into labor at 38 weeks, but they midwife thought you were only 36 weeks that could also keep you from having a homebirth.

 

IMO, it would best and safest to tell the truth.




This.  It's best to be honest, and if you end up still pregnant at 40 weeks you can look into ways to get labor started. 


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Old 09-13-2011, 08:50 PM
 
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I wouldn't risk it, personally.


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Old 09-15-2011, 04:17 PM
 
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I would adjust my LMP date if I knew when ovulation happened. I have 35-45 day cycles and no matter how many times I tell this to my HCPs they want to calculate my due date from the start of my cycle, then get all freaked out when I'm measuring small, and I have to explain it all over again. So frustrating.

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Old 09-16-2011, 11:37 AM
 
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I wouldn't do it - there are always more natural ways to "Induce" as you get closer to 40 weeks.

 

In my general life experience I have realized that any time I try to do something just a little bit sneaky or wrong that everyone else does all the time it comes back to bite me. I call it the Costanza rule. You try to save a little money on envelopes and you end up poisoning your fiancee.

 

 

 

 

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Old 09-17-2011, 06:19 PM
 
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I might adjust it by that half a week so that you know that you're giving yourself 'till 42 weeks.


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Old 09-18-2011, 04:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasha's Mama View Post

I would adjust my LMP date if I knew when ovulation happened. I have 35-45 day cycles and no matter how many times I tell this to my HCPs they want to calculate my due date from the start of my cycle, then get all freaked out when I'm measuring small, and I have to explain it all over again. So frustrating.



If you know when you ovulated, I would "lie" by giving them a LMP date 2 weeks prior. I had a long cycle this time, so I'm just giving my ovulation date and dating back 2 weeks if that date won't work.

 

I've been calling around interviewing practices and being "qualified" over the phone and no one seems to want to believe my ovulation date and several practices insisted I was further along no matter how much explaining I did (I have an exact ovulation date, and an implantation date, 3 daily negative tests before a positive all of which fits the exact pattern with my other 2 pregnancies plus I only had sex 2 times, 2 nights in a row, in the last 6 months, a week and a half AFTER the little wheel says I got pregnant so... I know my dates are right.) I use this issue to help me rule out providers, if they won't listen to me know they won't listen to me later.

 

I wised up and gave the nurse who did my proof of pregnancy form for insurance my revised LMP date so I have a paper trail with the right date.

 

 

 

As far as worrying about post date issues, I'll share my situation.

 

My first baby was 43 weeks.

 

My second baby came 3 days after his EDD. But he has Ds and babies with Ds often come 2 weeks early.

 

I expect this one to be late too. I'll be thrilled if he/she does not though!

 

There is family history on my mother's side of 42+ week babies (grandmother's 2 kids, my mother's 2 kids, and my aunt's 2 kids were all post date babies.). I have had all of the non standard labor/delivery issues my grandmother had. (Post dates, looooong labor, water broken for 1 week before labor, labor beginning in start/stop pattern for days before really getting going) basically all of the things that lead to a c-section now. My sister and maternal cousin had babies last year and went post dates, water broke with no labor, then they had their labors kick started with pitocen and ended up with c-sections for failure to progress. So for me, I feel good being watchful and monitoring closely, but waiting.

 

I had to birth in a situation where anything after 41 weeks was a cut off, I'd be really tempted to pad my ovulation date a week.

 

I'm planning a home birth in a situation where there is no pressure but if I end up needing a non emergency hospital birth I would just not show up for an induction simply for post dates unless the baby was showing signs of distress (an ultra sound with "low amniotic fluid" would not be enough for me since this has not been proven accurate.)

 

I should add that if when the time comes my intuition was feeling like something was wrong, I'd listen to it and not wait and see. As much as labor and pregnancy intuition get mocked, I do believe mothers often know if something is wrong long before the wrong shows up on a test.

 

 

 


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Old 09-20-2011, 05:36 PM
 
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I'll lie about LMP happily if I know when I ovulated and that it was later than LMP would indicate. I think it's more important for the caregiver to have accurate information about when conception occurred than when I last bled. 


When did your last baby come?

 

 


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Old 09-30-2011, 12:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbieB View Post

 

If you know when you ovulated, I would "lie" by giving them a LMP date 2 weeks prior. I had a long cycle this time, so I'm just giving my ovulation date and dating back 2 weeks if that date won't work.

 

I've been calling around interviewing practices and being "qualified" over the phone and no one seems to want to believe my ovulation date and several practices insisted I was further along no matter how much explaining I did (I have an exact ovulation date, and an implantation date, 3 daily negative tests before a positive all of which fits the exact pattern with my other 2 pregnancies plus I only had sex 2 times, 2 nights in a row, in the last 6 months, a week and a half AFTER the little wheel says I got pregnant so... I know my dates are right.) I use this issue to help me rule out providers, if they won't listen to me know they won't listen to me later.

 

I wised up and gave the nurse who did my proof of pregnancy form for insurance my revised LMP date so I have a paper trail with the right date.

 

 

 

 

 

I had to birth in a situation where anything after 41 weeks was a cut off, I'd be really tempted to pad my ovulation date a week.

 

I'm planning a home birth in a situation where there is no pressure but if I end up needing a non emergency hospital birth I would just not show up for an induction simply for post dates unless the baby was showing signs of distress (an ultra sound with "low amniotic fluid" would not be enough for me since this has not been proven accurate.)

 

I should add that if when the time comes my intuition was feeling like something was wrong, I'd listen to it and not wait and see. As much as labor and pregnancy intuition get mocked, I do believe mothers often know if something is wrong long before the wrong shows up on a test.

 

 

 


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Then again, it's important to remember the fact that if you DO go early you'll have a "preemie" situation to deal with that may not be accurate either.

 

There is still major pressure here too, but I was lucky to have a care provider that not only listened to my intuition about my O date, but also listened to me when I told her no the first time to BPP, twice weekly ultrasounds, and any induction methods beyond the old wives tales (walking, sex, spicy food, etc.). If I had chosen a care provider who went with my LMP (August 29th), I would have been 29 days past due (44+1 wks!!)... as it was, I went 18 days past the EDD my midwife and I agreed on.

 

Go with your protective mama bear instincts. You know your body better than anyone else, especially after having done this before.

 


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Old 09-30-2011, 06:43 AM
 
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My baby was breech and we had to do an external version at 37 weeks. If your midwife thinks you are 35 weeks when you are actually 37 weeks and she wont flip your baby until you are "37 weeks" when you would actually wind up being 39 weeks and if baby has dropped they are harder to flip. Then you could wind up with a breech baby.

I wouldnt lie by two weeks, it seems like it could get you into some sticky situations where you might have to come out and tell the truth.

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Old 09-30-2011, 06:51 AM
 
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if this is not your first babe, do you have any reason to suspect you'll go past 40 weeks? the "norm" is that first babes can usually go longer but subsequent births are likely to be before 40 weeks, statistically speaking.
personally, i'd be truthful for many of the reasons people above gave you...

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Old 10-06-2011, 01:51 PM
 
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Also, your fundal measurements will be off (tape measure on the belly) later in pregnancy.  Might cause your midwife to be concerned when their is no reason to be.


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Old 10-13-2011, 02:09 AM
 
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I would, and did, lie about my dates, and I'm very glad I did.

 

DD1 came at 43+1 weeks and I found the last few weeks of pregnancy to be *incredibly* stressful because of all the pressure to induce.

 

When I got pregnant with DD2 I really wanted to have a homebirth, which they usually only allow here up to 41+3 weeks (UK) so even though I knew that second babies usually come earlier I didn't want to depend on her coming nearly 2 weeks earlier.  And I knew that late babies run in my family and all have been perfectly healthy.  So I started to consider fudging my dates.  I originally thought about giving myself 2 weeks, but I did want to get the 20 week ultrasound just for reassurance, especially since I was planning a HB.  I know that the dates from a 20 week ultrasound can be off by +/- 10 days, but I didn't want to risk 2 weeks, since I worried that if there was too much of a discrepancy between my dates and the ultrasound ones, that they would change my dates to the ultrasound ones, which might even be earlier, since babies in my family tend to be on the large side.

 

So, in the end I bought myself a week - had no problem with the ultrasound.  DD2 not only didn't come early, she actually came almost a week later than DD1 - at 43+6 weeks by my dates (and I know ovulation, when we had sex, and I knew I was pregnant well before I got a BFP - was testing every day - so I'm certain as can be that my dates were right).  I was lucky enough to find a very supportive head midwife who agreed to allow me to be attended by MWs at home, up to 43 weeks (by their count) so I *just* made it in under the wire.  I was very glad that I adjusted my dates.

 

Do you have any reason to believe that you will go late? Was your last baby 42+ weeks? I think, usually, barring any medical problems, most moms have subsequent babies within a week or so of the date when their first arrived (though that's just my own observation, not scientifically backed up).  So, for me, the fact that I'd already had a 'late' baby and the fact that late babies run in my family (on both sides) meant that the likelihood of me having another late baby was pretty high - hence I was willing to manipulate my dates, since I knew late was just normal for me.  In fact, if I'd had a baby at 37 weeks (meaning the MWs would have thought I was 36 weeks and I would have been expected to go to hospital for it) I would have been quite worried - since DD1 was just perfect at 43 weeks, I would honestly expect a baby I had at 37 weeks (6 weeks earlier) to be functionally a preemie, if not by actual definition, since my babies just take longer to be ready.  But if your first came at 40 weeks then you're likely safe enough either way.  But the choice is yours, of course. :)

 


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Old 10-19-2011, 12:45 PM
 
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I would not lie.  I have had 4 children, not one came before 41 weeks.  My first was induced at 41 weeks, my 2nd I avoided induction until 41.5 weeks.  By this time I saw a pattern, and thought about lying about my LMP.  I think I actually did.  But couldn't make peace with it.  Why would I trust someone to be there for me at this crucial time, but not trust them with the facts?  That led me to finding a homebirth midwife who trusted my body and my thoughts as much as I did.  And I did.  I found a homebirth midwife who accepted my gluten-free, raw milk, unvaccinating ways (in Massachusetts), and who also said she would not push induction.  No matter what.

 

Here's the amazing thing, my dates were so messed up that my daughter came Nov 3rd instead of Oct 4th.  I was a full 43 weeks according to my best estimate, but by my LMP, over 4 weeks overdue.  And a couple of days before I went into labor, I called to see if I should get a full bio-physical.  I had been 4cm dilated for over 3 weeks (midwife only did internal exams by request) and she said she had been reviewing her charts b/c she had never had a woman go so late.  And all my measurements had been 2 weeks behind the entire pregnancy, so she recommended just waiting a few more days.

 

Labor was long, hard, baby was not rushing out and was posterior, but after 20 minutes of pushing, I delivered a beautiful 8lb 8oz girl who was definitely 42 weeks along, over 22 inches long, and had no tearing and absolutely no problems.  With my last birth, I told the midwife honest dates, and lied to everyone else in my life.  I had another baby after only 3.5 hours of active labor, only 7lbs, this time also almost 42 weeks.  

 

But I have to say, having my practitioner on the same page as me, able to honestly share worries, stress, and especially when the most recent baby started showing signs of arriving earlier than I thought possible, being able to express that and my worries, was such a blessing.  I think it is important to have a midwife or caregiver who trusts you and whom you trust.

 

 


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Old 10-19-2011, 09:31 PM
 
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I think lying to a HCP is a very bad idea. Like has been mentioned several times, what if you go into labor early and your midwife then thinks you're premature? Bad things. Plus a relationship between a patient and a midwife should be based on trust. You need to be able to trust her, right? Well she should be able to trust you as well. She can't give you the best care if you aren't being honest with her. And that's not a good base for a relationship. 

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Old 10-19-2011, 10:47 PM
 
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The most I would do is 5 days. My MW gave me an extra 2 when I was sure about dates. Any more than that could be dangerous, a baby born at 37 weeks thinking its 36 is less likely to raise havoc same with ultrasounds (my 1 son was always 2 weeks ahead, second consistent with dates) and fundal heights won't be so off.

 

There is just so much risk involved. I wouldn't unless I was sure of dates and likelihood of going late (DS1 failed induction 40 weeks 6 days and DS2 VBAC 40weeks 3 days) I'd expect future children around 40 weeks 5-6 days.

 

There are some great natural inductions that work for many women (like evening primrose) check out prior forums mothering.com is full of info.


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Old 10-19-2011, 11:35 PM
 
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In the end, you have to make a decision you are comfortable with. No type of natural induction has worked with my babies, and believe me I've tried it all. I firmly believe babies will come when they are ready, and not before. My children were born at 40+1, 40+2 and 40+2, respectively, at home. (I chart so I am quite certain of my dates.) In my opinion and experience, one cannot rely on induction as a fail-safe way of avoiding the bureaucracy. It seems foolhardy, more foolhardy than padding your dates. That said, I agree with pp's that two weeks of padding may be too much, unless, of course, you are like some of the other pp's with a family history and personal history of very "late" babies.


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Old 10-24-2011, 09:58 PM
 
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The truth is always the best way to go, for all of the reasons given here. Your midwife is risking a lot to attend you - she is owed the truth and truthful information.

I would not attend someone if I could not trust them, or have them me.


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Old 10-26-2011, 01:02 PM
 
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I would (and have) adjusted my dates for correctness because I always ovulate late.  I don't bother arguing with a regular ob about charting...I just give him the adjusted lmp date.  But, I lay it all out for my midwives, and go from there.  If they don't understand charting and the like, it isn't probable that we speak the same language in other areas either.

 

I think you ought to be honest with your midwife, both about your dates and your concerns.  Maybe she will document your dates differently, to work the system.  But, yeah...I think you ought to tell the truth. 

 

And fight at the end to not be induced.  Just don't go.


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Old 10-27-2011, 04:02 PM
 
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I also just wanted to add that in my practice, if someone straight out lies to me then that is grounds for our contract to be terminated immediately. It is important that women not hide medical issues, lie about due dates, try to hide things, etc if they want me to provide good care. I expect honesty and I provide honesty.


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Old 10-27-2011, 11:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidwifeErika View Post

I also just wanted to add that in my practice, if someone straight out lies to me then that is grounds for our contract to be terminated immediately. It is important that women not hide medical issues, lie about due dates, try to hide things, etc if they want me to provide good care. I expect honesty and I provide honesty.


And as long as you actually act on the information provided in a sensible manner (i.e. not insisting on using the LMP for a woman who has been charting and knows when she ovulated) then expecting honesty is pretty reasonable. My midwife got the whole story. The consulting perinatologist gets the relevant information... they ONLY ask about LMP, and utterly dismiss the idea that I know anything about my body, and thus they get the adjusted date, because what they need to know is how pregnant I am.

 

For those of us who don't ovulate on day 14 *and know it*, providing an accurate LMP to a provider who refuses to look at charting data is just so much garbage in, garbage out. 

 

Lying about an LMP when you know your O date is NOT lying about due date. It's providing MORE accurate information. 

 

Padding LMP by a week or two just in case to buy more time at term in someone who tends to run late-but-healthy, well, that's another kind of issue. If I were willing to see a care provider who would flat out risk someone out at 41 weeks, I'd be very, very tempted to pad by a week. Because the policy is wrong, and unscientifically based. But any caregiver that's going to risk out solely for being more than 1 week past the due date isn't going to be someone I trust anyway.

 


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Old 10-28-2011, 04:28 AM
 
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I think those of you who are advocating telling the truth, on the basis that if you can't trust your HCP with the truth about your 'due date'/LMP/ovulation date then you probably can't trust them about other stuff either are right.

 

However, you're forgetting that many many women simply don't have the option of finding a different HCP who will operate differently and be sensible about it, taking the relevant research into account (which, by the way, is that expectant management, or 'wait and see' is at least as safe as routine induction at 41 weeks).  If a woman is in a situation where she feels she should see a HCP, but doesn't have the choice about who she sees, why should she risk being forced into an induction at an arbitrary date in the name of 'complete honesty' with her HCP?  How many HCPs do you know who are completely honest with their clients about all the risks/benefits etc. of various tests, procedures etc.?

 

In an ideal world, we would be able to be completely honest, and know that we would get the same courtesy from our HCPs, who would objectively present all the information, research etc. and then respectfully allow us to make up our own minds about how to proceed, without trying to bully or pressure us into unwanted (and largely unnecessary) procedures, such as routine inductions. But I think we all know we're not living in that ideal world, nice as it would be.


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Old 10-28-2011, 07:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Just1More View Post

I would (and have) adjusted my dates for correctness because I always ovulate late.  I don't bother arguing with a regular ob about charting...I just give him the adjusted lmp date.  But, I lay it all out for my midwives, and go from there.  If they don't understand charting and the like, it isn't probable that we speak the same language in other areas either.

 

I think you ought to be honest with your midwife, both about your dates and your concerns.  Maybe she will document your dates differently, to work the system.  But, yeah...I think you ought to tell the truth. 

 

And fight at the end to not be induced.  Just don't go.


I agree. I know I ovulate late and I can prove it with charts. I even proved my OB wrong during my last pregnancy when she told me I couldn't have ovulated when I said I did. 

 

Why not be honest? I wouldn't want my midwife to lie to me so I shouldn't be lying to her... that's my opinion anyway. 

 

As to the OP's last question, no... you will probably not be able to get away with an ultrasound at "20" weeks because they'll see your baby is smaller, and then that could open up a whole other can of worms. Plus, 20 weeks isn't a great time to check the placenta, it could be low then and move up as the pregnancy progresses.
 

 

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Old 10-29-2011, 12:26 AM
 
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 To be clear, if I were not willing to have a homebirth, I would have ZERO choice in health care provider among the medical establishment. There is ONE physician practice that will see me. ONE. And I'm fortunate that while he IS a high risk doc and takes the more interventive route more often than not, he also says, "this isn't jail, you have a choice".


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Old 10-29-2011, 04:40 PM
 
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Perhaps if we women were more honest, and they had the data on later babies, the culture around inducing at 41 weeks could be shifted by the mass of people having much later babies.  For that reason, it seems like having those willing to be honest and be recorded could be beneficial.  I've read plenty of stories from women in the last generation who went 6 weeks later than their due date!  There's very few pregnant women I know willing to take that step.

 

 

 

Quote:

However, you're forgetting that many many women simply don't have the option of finding a different HCP who will operate differently and be sensible about it, taking the relevant research into account (which, by the way, is that expectant management, or 'wait and see' is at least as safe as routine induction at 41 weeks).  If a woman is in a situation where she feels she should see a HCP, but doesn't have the choice about who she sees, why should she risk being forced into an induction at an arbitrary date in the name of 'complete honesty' with her HCP?  How many HCPs do you know who are completely honest with their clients about all the risks/benefits etc. of various tests, procedures etc.?

 

In an ideal world, we would be able to be completely honest, and know that we would get the same courtesy from our HCPs, who would objectively present all the information, research etc. and then respectfully allow us to make up our own minds about how to proceed, without trying to bully or pressure us into unwanted (and largely unnecessary) procedures, such as routine inductions. But I think we all know we're not living in that ideal world, nice as it would be.

This is true- we don't have enough options much of the time.  I took that attitude and approach with my first 2 pregnancies and labors.  But I also learned that those I cannot trust in prenatal care, I don't trust to labor with me.  My labors were strongly affected by the fear, interventions, and disconnect between a care provider who was not on the same page as me.  In my third pregnancy- I lied about dates.  But my first visit was so stressful and fearful for me, knowing I was being deceptive and not trusting those who cared for me anymore, that I cried on my way home and my husband made the call that we would pay for a homebirth.  

 

My homebirth midwife was a God-send on the LMP/Ovulation dates.  I showed her my charts, we talked very openly, and she let me go until, well, I went.  My second homebirth was with the same provider as she was so supportive, and it was by far my shortest labor because I trusted her, I could relax with her, and I lied about my dates to everyone else, but when my body was moving towards labor a month earlier than I had told people, she was very supportive, and even predicted the week I'd be due.  Having that support is amazing.  Being able to have women who trust women, who know pregnancy, labor, delivery and know how to be 'with' those in those phases, should be something available to all women in our culture.  

 

If you have to, lie, it's safer for the baby and you.  But if you have to lie, you really aren't putting yourself in the hands of people you should trust with that fragile, intimate and very intense and scary time of your life.  I do say scary- birth, especially labor never scared me, but there was the awareness of my own and my child's mortality and the fragile nature of us as humans.  After birth, I feel like the strongest creature in the world, and the most delicate, holding onto the strongest and most delicate!  Ah, the beauty of womanhood.  


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Old 11-17-2011, 12:30 AM
 
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There are worse things in life than induction or C-section.  I realize that is not the trendy view right now.  The dangers of going over your due date are real.  Those standards were built on the experiences of injuries to babies and families who learned the dangers the hard way.  That is hard earned knowledge. Don't cheapen it.

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