And the dr told her she needed to be induced because the baby was getting to big- she surely could not go to her due date.
So she got induced early by about 2 weeks.... had to have a c-section for failure to progress.....
babe weighed 6lbs 7oz and was 19 inches long.
Just had to tell someone who would understand.
baby is ok- mama is ok. Just bummed at our hospital system and dr.s and for my attempt to "guide" her and she really did not want to induce but the dr scared here with big baby stories- and this is what the results were.
I put this here cause I don't want a fight about it... the facts are the facts. The dr told her baby was too big. Induced. Failed to progress. C section. Babe- under 7 lbs.
I do understand. There may come a day when she needs help to process what happened. Just be there for her.
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I personally think "failure to progress" is really a total pile of garbage---it is FAILURE TO BE PATIENT!!
Sometimes it is the mom who is impatient--like the woman I had last week who INSISTED she be induced (family reasons)--and I was torn between flat out saying "NO"--and she would transfer to another Doc who would induce and end up FTP/ C. Section----or induce----which I did -reluctantly--at 39 weeks---and waited out a long long labor---no win situation--except she got a vaginal birth.
I knew she would deliver vaginally but didn't think another OB would wait it out!
At least patient acknowledges she should have listened to me!
Hopefully--your friend will get a nicer birth next time!!
The exact same thing happened to my best friend. And everybody else I seem to know. I am so tired of the "We have to induce because it's a big baby" line, and then the baby is always average or small and the mom ends up with a c-section, repeat c-sections after that and countless other issues, not to mention the ongoing belief of our entire society that nobody can give birth naturally because everybody they know has "failure to progress" and "needs" a c-section. I was so angry and annoyed at the doctors and medical system when it happened to my friend , I should have ranted here to help me feel better.
Breastfeeding, Cloth-Diapering, Co-Sleeping, Babywearing Mama to a Sweet Little Boy
I know- I am sort of past it all - most my friends that I currently hang out with have kids and are done having kids to- but we can't talk birth stories or I cringe. And of course we do but I always steer the conversation away.
So luckily it's not a daily thing anymore- but my mom passes along the information from people who are having kids that i went to school with and I hate it for them, my mom hates it- and I hate to hear it... again and again... I always recommend Birthing From Within for pregnant people to read- but really it just never gets thru- they never buy it...
i do have one success story- my cousin- had it all the first time( induction for ridiculous reason - etc) and was able to come to me about a year later to process it and had a natural birth in a hospital with a mw with her second baby and it was very healing for her- and she did read birthing from within- she was not as crazy about it as I was- but I know a lot of the info helped her and I feel like I made a little contribution.
I just wanted to add a little personal insight to this. I have lived through 3 inductions. My first birth was frightfully close to being a c-section. They put me and my baby through so many interventions. My last two births, I made it through with only the IV pit and antibiotics. Pit contractions are crazy! Unnaturally painful and erratic! If you can't find a way to relax in between contractions, your in trouble. It has been my mental talk (all three times) that I needed ongoing support with. That is, the only intervention I will ask my midwife for, before my labor begins. It's not just impatience, but more importantly fear, that can cause poor outcomes. Of course! Because this state will not allow your body to relax enough to signal your safe. All mammals are wired to birth in a quite place where we will not be intruded upon. Standard hospital protocols are inappropriate for birthing mothers. They produce unneccessary anxiety. It does not feel safe, to be asked every time you see a nurse how much pain you are in. If anything is wrong? To be strapped down and under a microscope.
Being aware of this information can change birth outcomes. I know it! I am just posting this in the event it helps someone, who may find themself in a situation they didn't expect. The birthing mama shouldn't feel bad. There is no need for blame. It is just the perfect storm, the staff believe they are acting in benevolence. That is part of the problem though, some of these beliefs are wrong. Bodies are not machines, and every birth is unique. Our people must come to respect a more ancient wisdom, which demands that no one alarm a birthing mother.
'Our people must come to respect a more ancient wisdom, which demands that no one alarm a birthing mother. '
I enjoyed your point of view and agree---the fear instilled in women is a commonplace thing.
So many women who are quite relaxed and happy, then all of a sudden starting voicing fears and worries----typically after the "baby showers"
Why so you think women feel the need to go into their labor stories and almost seem to want to "outdo" each other to see who had the worst experience---or is that just what they do in this neck of the woods? They scare new mom-to-bes half to death. Even mothers almost "tease"?? their daughters with comments like "You just wait until you're screaming" (heard this more than once!). A little twisted imo
The impatience, I'd say, is predominantly that of the physician--but not infrequently that of the mom--who's is fed up with her sleepless nights, aching back and pelvic pressure, and is being bombarded with interventionalist reality TV shows. A cultural thing?---wanting her baby at a time that is "convenient"
I do have to spend quite a bit of time convincing women it is NOT in their best interest to start mucking around. Thankfully, they usually listen.
Why not take the evidence and make an " educated" ( because Obsetricians are the ones who went to school for this) decision that women are not allowed to be induced unless medically necessary.
It is truly sad.
OP I totally understand where you are coming from. I know what it feels like to want to help a mama & baby so badly, because let's face it, we need better beginnings. Not scary beginnings.
I would connect her with her local ICAN group. I had similarly terrible first birth experience and found ICAN after my daughter was 2 years old. It would have helped so much with my emotional processing to go earlier on.
Mama to a sweet little redheaded girl, born 11/09; and my HBAC baby, little brother, born 7/12.
Agree Dovemomma----which is why I explain this during the first trimester and reinforce it throughout---Mother Nature will decide ------hard sell ---but it has always kept my rate below 5% for first time moms---that first birth needs to be vaginal if at all possible!!
My standard line is, 'If you are induced, you are typically sorry you ever walked that path, and you REALLY increase the risk to the baby, and to yourself"
I'm not sure I understand you fully, obdoc. I had a failure to progress diagnosis in my chart. My water broke on its own 10 days after my due date, and I labored for 70 hours with back labor. I feel like I and my midwives were as patient as possible.
"The Mothers are the brave ones." - Call the Midwife
Partura---long labors really do amke for a miserable experience.
I have had womenwho present who have labored at home with spontaneous ruptured membranes for 2-3 days---but---in MY experience---when I have
assessed them and --yes --I know I at that point WILL go more high tech--I put in an IUPC which typically shows that even though their contractions are perceived as painful---and it is not for ME to say they are NOT painful --as every person is entitled to perceive their pain as whatever they choose---but the contractions are not strong enough to get the cervix to dilate.
Were you dilating?
I --in these cases---DO start antibiotics--and this is one of those times--if the contractions are ineffective suggest the use of an epidural --to get some pain relief and some sleep---and if no change after that has been in for a couple of hours---use Pitocin. I do not believe this is frivolous use of Pitocin--and the mother IS at this point staring at the operating room square in the face. Intervention at this juncture has certainly saved many women that fateful trip.
At that point she would be getting a spinal for a C. Section so an epidural could also allow her to rest and let us push that uterus a little more without making her suffer.
Every labor is different--and I know nothing is 100%--but I would say that many women are sectioned for "failure to progress"--yet when I look at the records I see she never got past 3 cm and no intervention done. A little intervention can sometimes save a LOT of intervention. Again--the usual story is that she was "induced but never opened my servix"----arrrggghhhhhh!!!
Again ---just an observaton---but FTP is only something I have used as a reason to section once in the last 23 years---a girl with multiple kidney stones who was unable to get stented by any urologist--in AGONY---we tried for 3 days to induce but it didn't work (37 weeks about 15 years ago), and after discussion --she felt the pain from ureter was unbearable despite meds--and needed to be stented. We tried balloon, prostin Cytotec--Pit---it was a nightmare--but in the end she was just relieved to get some relief from her kidney stones. She was fully involved in all aspects of decision making--oh --and went on to have 2 successful VBACs. I still talk with her on Facebook.
I was at 8 cm dilated. The doctor at the hospital said, in front of me, which frankly deeply offended me, that my contractions weren't "real." She meant that they weren't strong enough. But they were intensely painful due to an OP baby, and they lasted four minutes each. They weren't 4 min apart, they were 4 min long. And I had a terrible burning sensation with each one in addition to the normal pain.
We tried an epidural and pitocin. The pitocin made my baby's heart rate drop dramatically so we stopped that pretty quickly. The doctor also tried to turn my baby and that didn't work. I labored for nearly 3 days in every position imaginable, and my son would simply not come out.
I do understand what you're saying here. But it is difficult to hear statements like "failure to progress is failure to wait." I heard that so many times before I had my son, and I understand it is very often the case. But it is not always the case. Once he was here, I felt like I had somehow failed because I had that diagnosis that so many people feel isn't "real" and is just due to poor care/decisions. I kept thinking I should've labored for another day or should've done this or that. It made it difficult to accept that sometimes a c-section is actually needed, and some things are out of our control.
"The Mothers are the brave ones." - Call the Midwife
By failure to be patient I predominalty mean the doctor---and a woman who want so be induced at 37-38 weeks for social reasons---and while it is not the case for everybody--and you certainly seem to have given everything a go---I am not criticizing YOU---I am talking about this while social induction, not getting past 2-3 cm---you must push a baby out in 2 hrs after reaching 10 cm stuff---whihc I believe contributes GREATLY to the ridiculous C. Section rate.
I too had a C. Secton ---after pushing for 5 hours----I call mine CPD--because my 10'9" baby would not fit where a 9 ' baby had gone before---by failure to progress I mean the waste basket diagnosis used to excuse "failure to even get into labor"--or failure to allow descent and rotation--that stupid 2 hour rule"
I have never said that a woman's contractions don't hurt--I typically start with "I know these contractions are very painful, bu, unfortunatley, they are not effective"----'they' being the CONTRACTIONS---not that the WOMAN is ineffective. Not all labors work! Look at the women who come walking into the clinics after walking for miles with obstructed labors in Africa and end up with obstetric fistula.
OP babies certainly make me chew my fingernails as they start to rotate--they certianly do some funky things with their heart rates----they are just miserable labors over all!!
maybe I just don't like the word "failure"--see --I would have called your indicaton 'persistent occiput posterior with non-reassurring fetal heart tracing"------hmmm why the word failure come to think of it!!!??? POP takes the "failure" out of it---
Thanks for your response! I totally didn't feel you were criticizing me personally. No worries there. I just get a little bristly when I read things that make it *sound* like failure to progress is ALWAYS actually down to human error/impatience. I think I misunderstood the intent of what you were trying to say. I'm happy we could talk about it!
I think part of my sensitivity comes from the fact that whenever I share my birth story, I seem to get this attitude from other moms about how I must've done something wrong. I shared my birth story at a mom's group recently, just the short version of it, and this woman said to me, "oh were you an induction gone wrong?" *sigh. NO. Not every woman that ends up with a c-section or has FTP as a diagnosis is an induction story. And for that matter, not every woman who has a c-section did something "wrong" that in hindsight, could've been avoided. Sometimes c-sections really do just happen, and there are times that I feel that in our desire to conquer our fear of something we can't totally control (birth), we don't make room for stories in which everything was done "right," and the outcome still wasn't what we planned.
I labored for 3 days with my son, I did all kinds of positions, I ran up stairs while having contractions, I was in and out of the tub, I walked, I tried pit, and my midwife and the doc both tried to reach in and turn my baby. I did it all, my friend. And my little fella was just still stuck- my theory is that he couldn't turn because not only were my waters already broken, but he was wrapped up in the cord like a Christmas tree (2x around the neck, 1 around his body, and he was hanging onto the cord). Such is life.
Yeah, I'm so with you on that whole "failure" thing! I hate that the word "failure" is used to describe anything about my birth experience. I worked my butt off, and my baby and I made it out alive. I didn't get the outcome I wanted, and I've mourned that in a big way. But let me tell you, it didn't help my emotional recovery one bit to have that word "failure" hanging around.
I think the way you talk to women about contractions is really good. You sound much different than the OB that attended me at the hospital. Not only was I told my contractions weren't "real" by the on-call family practice doc, the OB they called in later told everyone that I shouldn't be so "dramatic" since I hadn't been in "real labor." At that point my midwife said in her sweet/severe voice "I think it's time for you and I to speak in the hall right. now."
Anyway, I've hijacked the OP's thread here. My apologies for that. But thanks for this exchange, obdoc! Very interesting stuff.
"The Mothers are the brave ones." - Call the Midwife
I hate the big baby talk, mom31. I really understand. I'm in a due date group on another board and sometimes when other moms come back saying their doc is freaking out because an u/s showed the baby is way ahead and is going to be big I do say something, but lots of times I just don't. It's really hard.
I know I shouldn't take it personally either, but I just feel like this attitude that has been instilled in everyone actually makes my life harder. It's a really hard thing to go to doctors and say, my first was a c-section and he weighed 12 lbs and I want to have a VBAC. I did do it, but it was such a fight (and my VBAC baby was 10.5 lbs). And it's because people think a 9 lb baby is humongous that is part of what causes those of us for whom big babies are the norm (no GD, family history of big babies) to have problems.
Heck, I even fear it! I'm entering kind of the home stretch here and lately I've been worried that this boy is going to be even bigger than my first and I won't be able to birth him. Having had a c-section with my first was a serious blow to my confidence (the section wasn't for size either, they had no idea he was so big). I'll never know if I could have pushed him out. :(
Mom of two intact, intelligent and funny boys, 8 and 5. VBAC mom pregnant with #3, Due 6/24/12
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