UC Support Thread #5, June - Page 7 - Mothering Forums

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#181 of 244 Old 06-26-2004, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi Amy, welcome to the UC thread! To me, how to define "UC" is a tricky thing. The generally accepted definition is no involvement from a midwife or doctor -- which is a somewhat arbitrary definition that I'm not all that comfortable with. I mean, just because a midwife is not present doesn't mean the birth will not be assisted or interfered with. As I noted above, often family members or friends will attempt to manage, monitor, or guide the birth. Or their presence alone is a hindrance. Including them anyway is a valid choice, but it's still a very different thing from spontaneous, instinctive birth. And for that matter, spontaneous, instinctive birth (which is the goal for me personally) can occur with a midwife nearby, as you're planning, and be virtually "unassisted", even more so than another woman's birth in which there was no midwife present. So we've got these different approaches, and regardless of actual degree of assistance, some are accepted as falling under the banner of "UC" and some not, which is frustrating to me (especially as I'm making up the roll call.) For instance, what about Donna's birth? Her midwife observed, but did almost nothing but offer a few words of encouragement. Her birth, though virtually unassisted, is not generally regarded as UC because a midwife was there. But a woman who is surrounded by people offering support, or whose husband is keeping track of contractions and checking dilation and telling her when to push -- that is called a UC, simply because there is no midwife present. I guess the problem for me in all this is that I don't think the important defining factor should be whether a midwife is present, but rather whether the birth process is guided (disturbed.)
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#182 of 244 Old 06-26-2004, 02:04 PM
 
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Thank you for the welcome Linda, I've been following your birth posts on mothering.....kinda like a stalker, but not quite

I was hesitant to post here as I didn't want to detract from the "true" meaning of UC (at least in my heart). I am really looking forward to how your mtg or presentation goes w/the midwives. The MW I interviewed who is against UC, just graduated from Seattle Midwifery School, vs. the MW we are "using" has been in practice forever. Don't know if that is common among MWs, or just my personal experience. (More experience, less obtrusive).

Niki, I knew I forgot someone!! You are my personal pregnancy warrior, I hope you are starting to feel at least a little better

Amy
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#183 of 244 Old 06-26-2004, 02:08 PM
 
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Congratulations Donna
Landen is so beautiful!!! Your birth story was so woderful to read. I'm so happy you caught your baby. And I am stunned that you are tandem nursing for the *first* time . Anyhow, happy baby mooning. I'm sorry about not getting back to you about my brother, but I had some family stuff come up the day I was going to come see you. I'll have to PM you when I get a chance. Just had to send my congratulations your way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh and I'd love to read the MW's story too.

Ticia
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#184 of 244 Old 06-26-2004, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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"Don't know if that is common among MWs, or just my personal experience. (More experience, less obtrusive)."

Well, I've met plenty enough older midwives who are extremely hands-on and inflexible about birth alternatives, and younger/newer midwives who are open to the idea of UC. I think it really just depends on training and personal philosophy.

Anyway, please don't feel hesitant to post here -- the "support" part of this is not only for people planning UCs, but for those wanting to learn more about it or just soak up the empowering vibes.
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#185 of 244 Old 06-26-2004, 07:22 PM
 
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My first midwife was VERY hands off....and much older (been catching babies for 30 years). I definitely think her ways were because of all the years she has been there and seen so much--but someone else could come from the same experiences and be more hands-on, I'm sure.

My current midwife(who won't be there for the birth we are sure--but I wouldn't mind her being there because she is my friend) is young and new to the midwifery world. BUT all her babies are UC, so that majorly shapes her philosophy.
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#186 of 244 Old 06-26-2004, 09:43 PM
 
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I'm due in one week now!!!

I bought some arnica gel for when labour grabs my belly and back too hard. I'm also going to take arnica homeopathy internally. I've made my alter... full of all my neccessities.

patiently waiting for baby, DP (who's going to be here on tuesday), and all my NB dipes.... NOT in that order>>>
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#187 of 244 Old 06-27-2004, 03:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by *Mamajaza*
When are you due, klothos? I'm due VERY SOON! I think this babe might want to be born on the full moon (july2).
I was just having a conversation with my mom today about the feeling that my baby is comming on the full moon, July 2nd! We are planning a full moon party in her garden that night. I am "officially" due the 1st. Exciting! I go from being mostly very calm about the impending birth to feeling anxious, as this is my first homeirth, not to mention being unassisted!
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#188 of 244 Old 06-27-2004, 03:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Hathor
Hi everyone,
I was visited all night last night by lovely, regular, spread across the back and grab at my tummy contractions!
yay Heather! I was thinking about you a lot today...fill us in asap! Best wishes.
juliette
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#189 of 244 Old 06-27-2004, 03:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by *Mamajaza*
I've made my alter... full of all my neccessities.
HI Mamajaza!! I'm so happy for you! I'm anxious to hear about your birthing.
Have you listed elsewhere what's on your altar? I know it's personal, but I'm curious.
I made a birth altar recently, too.
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#190 of 244 Old 06-27-2004, 10:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by luna13mama
yay Heather! I was thinking about you a lot today...fill us in asap! Best wishes.
juliette
Aaaaargh! It was another false alarm....All night I contracted and all I got was tired. : So here I am well past my due date by weeks and again with only the occassional BH contraction. Here's soimething wierd though, I've had 2 false alarms and both were on Wednesday nights, has anyone ever heard of labor that builds toward a weekly pinnacle? I wonder will I have to wait until next Wednesday again? dh tells me that every day I'm gettting closer, but I'm beginning to wonder! Thank heavens for UC, because my former midwife said my due date was June 6th...
Heather
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#191 of 244 Old 06-27-2004, 10:12 PM
 
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to you Heather. I remember how hard it was to wait when i was that close.

I haven't been following your posts before this thread, but how is baby positioned? I had A LOT of BH stuff and early labor stuff and my lil' one was born a little "late" w/his hand on his face. I think if that hand wasn't there I would have delivered a little earlier w/o the really long, long, long back labor we had.

Amy
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#192 of 244 Old 06-27-2004, 10:41 PM
 
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*sigh* why do women seem to think that they need an epidural, and can't do it without one? I just read a birth story, where she really wanted to go through labour without one, but had to after an hour of "really painful contractions".... I hope to believe that she had to do this because of the atmosphere (hospital), maybe bad diet, and mind set...

I want to give birth without drugs (obviously), but I do remember labour being very very excrusiating.... to the point that I was willing to die! Maybe I'm just a wimp, as I'm not very "athletic", and couldn't run half as far as probably most of you. But I did give birth without drugs at home, and I will do it again. The thought of drugs never past my mind once when I was in labour. That probably has to do with the fact that they were not available. Maybe if I gave birth in a hospital, I would order an epidural too.

It's so sad, having the baby born drugged. I wonder if they can feel anything? I don't know much about epidurals, so someone could enlighten me if you wish. I hope I didn't offend anyone. It's just my POV, and I want to express myself here on the UC support thread, for obvious reasons.

Anyways, Im gonna take a picture of my birth alter! Be right back!!!
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/...92&uid=2143685
So my alter is comprised of precious stones, baby pictures, homeopathy + perinium support cloths (on the left of the pic), essential oils, beeswax candles, massage oils, birth announcement cards, honey from arizona, dried lavendar, my DD's dried umbilical cord, insence, sage, and copal, to burn. I like it, but it's a work in progress, still adding things and changing things around.
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#193 of 244 Old 06-27-2004, 11:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ooh, I can't wait to see the picture! Fun! I really want to make an altar too... don't really have a place for it yet though.

You know how people are always saying things like, "you don't have to be a hero," well I know I don't have to be a hero, but I'm happy to be one. I suffered mightily in birth (stupid back labor) and I would rather that than submit my baby (and myself) to the dangers of drugs in labor. I'm sure you could find a zillion webpages if you did a search for "epidural risks" but here's a start: http://www.kimjames.net/epidural_ris...de_effects.htm
http://www.birthbuddies.org/the_epidural_express.html

I just think it's so strange that so many women are so vehemently against the use of drugs in pregnancy (say, marijuana for nausea) but somehow they convince themselves that epidural drugs are fine and dandy? I don't get it.
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#194 of 244 Old 06-27-2004, 11:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You look wonderful! And a little worn out, like you're *ready*. Shoot, I feel ready and I have 14 weeks to go...

So what is that book about, The Great Cosmic Mother?
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#195 of 244 Old 06-28-2004, 12:42 AM
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Hi Nikki !

In my experience ( I had two traditional hospital births and one UC) the epidurl does not have any outwardly obvious effects on the baby. Both of my hospital birthed babies were very alert, healthy, and responsive. What the epidurl does do is to cause the mother to be unable to control the sensations of labor, unable to determine what she needs to help the birth progress and bring herself comfort/relief, and unable to function without assistance. To me the epidural is "needed" because of the circumstances of the hospital (being strapped to a bed with needles, tubes, and elastic binding to certain positions - hospital staff/policies interfereing with what the mother wants/needs - being in an unfamiliar/uncomfortable place - etc.) and the epidural will help to relieve the pain that has been induced and render the mother helpless and dependant upon the hospital staff....making their job easier.

That is *my* opinion.

For me with my UC ...having the ability to prepare mentally with reading, positive affirmations, visualization, etc. is what kept my labor quick and manageable. I do not recall any pain. I recall (and I do have a record - wrote my birth story 30 min. after her birth) a sudden realization it was time...an instinctual survival mode of "I must do this, now this, it is time to give birth" and then she was born. The only memory of much discomfort was delivering the placenta, however it was not much worse than menstrual cramps.

I know everone is different...but I believe state of mind is a major player in the success of UC.

Oh *Mamajaza* you look radiant, ripe, and ready for birth. Your alter looks quite inpirational.
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#196 of 244 Old 06-28-2004, 01:13 AM
 
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Ooh, yes. How exciting!! happy birthing mamajaza and hathor!! Can't wait to hear!

Your altar looks great mamajaza. That is one of my favorite parts of preparing....is taht the MOnica Sjoo book? The cosmic mother one? I read it a long time ago....it was great from what I remember. And yes, you look wonderful, but ready!! Do you have any ideas on the sex or names?

well have my babe in arms, can't type much. Blessings everyone!
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#197 of 244 Old 06-28-2004, 03:15 AM
 
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I thought about what I had wrote and realized that my labour was only excrusiating once the MW got me to lay down on my back so she could internally examine me. I was just fine in the birth pool, and probably would have given birth in there if things had gone my way.

I realize that a LOT of women just can't handle labour that has been induced (well, almost all, from what I gather) I still have to look at those links, blueviolet.

I have to run, sorry, can't elaborate right now
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#198 of 244 Old 06-28-2004, 11:52 AM
 
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LLL book and the Sear's book(I think) both cite that epidural's do decrease a baby's success in latching on for up to a month after birth. Yes, I am aware this doesn't mean all epidural babies are unsuccessful or even slow-to-start nursers, but it does show a statistical effect on babies.

I am in my CBE training, and I've read these books way too extensively--my brain is rather swimming.
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#199 of 244 Old 06-28-2004, 12:23 PM
 
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*Mamajaza* ~ gorgeous pictures. you're so beautiful! and that's a neat little altar area.

Quote:
I want to give birth without drugs (obviously), but I do remember labour being very very excrusiating.... to the point that I was willing to die!
me too ~ i remember at one point i grabbed my SO's hand and i whispered to him, if i am ever in this much pain again, kill me, and he said, or call an ambulance? and i said, no, just kill me.

i know that i would have been able to handle it if i had been allowed to get up and move around like i wanted to, or even sit up, but the nurses kept coming in and pushing me down onto my back every time they came in the room: "hospital policy." (this is one of my main motivations for UC!!)

Heather ~ i haven't met anybody IRL who has ever gone that far past their due date! everyone else was forced to induce by 41 weeks. i hope your baby comes soon s but at the same time, you are my idol! you have so much courage and strength. s you're awesome!
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#200 of 244 Old 06-28-2004, 12:38 PM
 
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Hello ladies! Thought I would check in, as I have just been reading lately. I am getting close, will be 38 w on Friday. Saw my midwife for the fourth and final time (I will most likely see her post partem as she will help with pku wavers and a birth cert.-in CA, pku is mandatory no matter what if if the proper papers are not filed they will send a sheriff to your house, almost happened to us last time!). She dropped by to bring me a fishy pool and blow it up for me. I asked her to palpitate and baby's head is very engaged! She also thinks that baby is facing forward. Anyone know of ways to encourage baby to turn a bit, can they once they have engaged? I know I can birth this baby no matter what, but I would like to avoid back labor if possible. I have not ever had it, but that is the kind of labor you have with a sunny side up babe, is it not? I am beginning to feel excited and ready. Think this babe will come a bit early. The full moon would be nice but I don't think it will then. I am thinking more around the 9th. It would be the best time as it turns out, because my dh (after three years of working towards it!) got a wonderful job and will have a week off starting the ninth before he starts his new job. It is amazing, this will be the first to have insurance and benefits and everything! Anyway, good things are happening here finally after a really rough year last year. One thing that I am worried about is that younger dd is so set on having a sister, she absolutely refuses the idea of a brother, so much so that she gets terribly upset if I suggest otherwise. I really feel that we are having a boy, and am not sure how to handle dd if she totaly rejects him. It seems like she is going through this thing were everything is girl. Every story the characters must be a girl, if they are a boy, she just insists that they are not and she comes up with new names for them. She is 2.5. I am sure she will be fine, but you know, mothers worry.

I have been going over my birth supplies. I don't have many, as I don't think I will need much. I have towels and baby blankets, scissors and a braided tie for the cord. Some arnica and rescue remedy, and now the pool. I really cannot imagine what else I would need. I think I will be eating the placenta. Just saving it and frying it up bit by bit to help restore myself after birth. I will bury and plant something over the cord portion. My midwife left a sterile emergency pack for me too. I did not get a chance to ask her, what is usually in these things? I can't think of anything else that I NEED beyond what I already have. I did buy Emergency Childbirth for dh, he has yet to read it, but he feels good having it. He is so excited and calm about having this uc. It is wonderful to have his support. We both kind of got the feeling from the midwife that she has forgotton about our plans to go solo. She can be kind of forgettful, but I know she is laid back about uc. And I ask him if we sould talk to her about it, and he is like why? We will just call her afterwards right?

This post has turned out to be a long one! Sorry for the babbling. Getting excited for life to change again

Wishing you gentle and joyful birthing vibes *Mamajaza* and Hathor!!!!!!!
Brandi

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#201 of 244 Old 06-28-2004, 12:47 PM
 
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in CA, pku is mandatory no matter what if if the proper papers are not filed they will send a sheriff to your house
OMG! are you serious?!

how do i find out more about these ( :: cough :: ridiculous :: cough :: ) requirements?
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#202 of 244 Old 06-28-2004, 01:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AmyD

I haven't been following your posts before this thread, but how is baby positioned? I had A LOT of BH stuff and early labor stuff and my lil' one was born a little "late" w/his hand on his face.

Amy
I'm not sure about positioning...my last 'professional-probing' was at 27 weeks when my former midwife said she thought the baby was head down. I am certain the baby is head down, I have a rump just under my ribs and a knee smack dab in the middle of my belly. But I guess I won't know about strangely placed baby parts until after, huh?
I went to the farmer's market yesterday and had probably 75 people comment on my humongousness. People seem genuinely worried that I'm going to explode!
Heather
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#203 of 244 Old 06-28-2004, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oshunmama, that's just it: you don't necessarily see the effects with every individual (or at least not to where they're obvious) but they show up statistically. As far as the epidural goes, the effects depend on which drugs are used, and how much, and for how long. Generally, cocaine derivatives are used; opiates and other drugs may be added for different reasons.

Studies that have been done on non-human mammals show that when epidurals are used, the animals reject or ignore their newborns for a period of time. (This effect is bound to be less obvious in humans, because our behavior is not driven only by our hormones.) Contrary to popular thought, epidural drugs do cross the placenta; some are taken up into the baby's brain, and most take longer to be eliminated from the baby's system than from the mother's. Epidural drugs inhibit the release of hormones associated with labor: beta-endorphins, oxytocin, catecholamines. Oxytocin is responsible for efficient uterine contractions, which means that a lack of it will tend to make labor harder and longer, and the mother more susceptible to post-partum hemorrhage. It is known as "the love hormone", and enhances bonding, ease of breastfeeding, and protective behavior in the mother. Catecholamines are responsible for regulating cardiac, respiratory, metabolic and thermal systems in the newborn at birth. They are also responsible for initiating instinctive mothering behavior. Beta-endorphins induce mutual dependency.

Most of that information is from Sarah Buckley's excellent article on hormones in labor, that was published in Mothering magazine: http://www.mothering.com/11-0-0/html...ic-birth.shtml and there's lots more info at those links I provided.
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#204 of 244 Old 06-28-2004, 01:12 PM
 
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Studies that have been done on non-human mammals show that when epidurals are used, the animals reject or ignore their newborns for a period of time. (This effect is bound to be less obvious in humans, because our behavior is not driven only by our hormones.)
... it's interesting you should mention that. one of my sisters had an epidural w/ one of her babies, and she seemed nonchalant about letting everyone just take her baby and do whatever they wanted w/ it for a day and a half after she delivered.
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#205 of 244 Old 06-28-2004, 01:16 PM
 
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I am not sure, and maybe it goes by county, but my last hb I did not look into it and my midwife over looked it, and I ended up with a letter from some state health head honcho saying if I did not provid proof of having a test done then I would get a vist from the sheriff. I did not realize at the time that you can sign a religious waiver, so we obediantly went to the hospital and had a pku preformed on our one MONTH old dd. Completely ridiculous and unnecessarily traumatic.

here are a couple of links I found:

pku

pku2 scroll down on this one
pku3 I think this one may be the best link

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#206 of 244 Old 06-28-2004, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Brandi, there are a bunch of website devoted to the positioning issue, here's one:

http://www.homebirth.org.uk/ofp.htm
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#207 of 244 Old 06-28-2004, 01:23 PM
 
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Thanks Linda I go back and forth thinking I should do something about it, but mostly I just feel like it is best to be laid back and let whatever way this birth is supposed to be, still learning and unlearing if you know what I mean. My very dear far away friend's mantra has been running through my head for months: JUST BE!

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#208 of 244 Old 06-28-2004, 01:38 PM
 
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I sure hope I don't sound like a wishy washy dope. Sometimes I feel like I do on this thread in particular. I just mostly post when I am working things out in my head, and I have had so much to work through this year! But I feel like I am finally getting to a settled and calm place. My birthing ideals have gone through so many up and downs this pregnancy. I have always believed in natural birth, it is more the assistance that I have waivered with. And finding the faith and belief in myself. My last hb birth was so wonderful. My midwife inspired me to want to help other women to have the kind of birth I had. I set on a path of birth education, and I feel like this has almost been to my own detriment, as I have worried so much this pregnancy and fallen off my path of faith in myself and my body. I have also gone back forth with my relationship with my mw, she is great but so like the kind of people that I am trying to eliminate from my life. (People that I cannot rely on) This has been a big issue for me lately due to my mother in particular, but that story is not for now. I am finding myself to be much more simple these days with birth and labor and life in general, though it is a struggle, our society is so complicated and pushy and full of fear! I don't even know if any of this is making any sense, and I am sorry for getting off the birth track here, just felt like I need to share these thoughts.
As always, thank you ladies............
Brandi

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#209 of 244 Old 06-28-2004, 01:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ChildoftheMoon
My very dear far away friend's mantra has been running through my head for months: JUST BE!

Brandi
I concur. I just looked over the website about positioning and in turns panicked and hyperventilated... I have to remind myself that both my other labors were very late and very short and what will be will be...Isn't it all in our positive mindset anyway?
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#210 of 244 Old 06-28-2004, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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"Isn't it all in our positive mindset anyway?"

Ha, well, try telling me that when I'm screaming at the top of my lungs because it feels like my back is splitting apart. I've had three horrific back labors and I think it had a lot to do with the fact that whenever I sat down I was reclining on my back. The labor was not hard before baby descended far enough to put pressure on my sacrum, and it wasn't hard after the baby turned anterior, so I'm assuming it was an abnormal positioning issue. I'm not stressing about it -- I did it before and I can do it again -- but if there's something I can do to possibly avoid it, I'm happy to try!
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