Considering Homebirth? Think Hard.... - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 159 Old 08-17-2004, 01:30 PM
 
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I already said this once, but I am just so incredulous...

So, you recommend that women go somewhere that can be LESS safe, where things are MORE likely to go wrong, so that if they DO go wrong, they can sue????

Why not just stay home in the first place and reduce the likelihood that there will be labor and delivery complications?

Huh? I don't get it.
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#62 of 159 Old 08-17-2004, 02:32 PM
 
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Guvly wrote: "The negativity expressed in the replies magnified any unintended negativity in my original post ten fold."

Ah, you should hang out on some of more mainstream forums and post something about the potential dangers of hospital birth! The fact is, when you challenge a cherished belief system, you're going to get anger and defensiveness along with the rational discourse and unemotional facts. That is in the nature of human beings, and therefore the nature of a public forum. It is no use complaining about it. You really just have to ignore it if it bothers you so much, and respond to what is worth responding to. And frankly, there have been plenty enough intelligent, non-reactive responses, but you seem intent on focusing instead on criticising the negative tone of some posts, which indicates to me that your priority in coming here was not to have some sort of meaningful discourse, but simply to post your opinion and have it agreed with.

"The replies illustrate that this is not a place for objective exchange. As such, those looking for objective information should seek it elsewhere."

Well, seeing as how you yourself define your OP as "opinion", and you did, in fact, not ask for factual information in return (even when I and others offered) I think your expectation of getting only objective information in return is unrealistic. Given the nature of your OP, it's entirely reasonable for people to respond mostly with their own opinions and perspectives.

In any case, you're mistaken that there is no objective information to be had here. On this very thread there has been factual information given about both liability and safety concerns. If you really are interested in it, please do go back and read through the thread again, because it is there.
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#63 of 159 Old 08-17-2004, 02:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guvly
There ARE people who have been wiped out financially, and their beautiful children disabled, because of the avoidable and negligent actions of midwives coupled with the lack of disability insurance.

Many of you express a disregard for making decisions based on liability concerns. I hope you are never involved in a car, workplace, or other accident caused by someone who shares your feelings about insurance.
Tell me, guvly...what direct experience do you have with these things? Im an OBICU and NICU nurse and I see these things happen on a daily basis...but its not midwives who are at fault for being negligent...its the doctors. I see it happen every darn day I work...doctors & nurses applying protocols to patients for nothing more than the sake of protocol or even trying to give the residents experience. I see these things cause problems...cause injuries to babies and mothers and even death. The hospital is not the safe place you make it out to be. Spend some time as an OB nurse and you WILL SEE THIS.

Insurance covered my homebirth, so what makes you think that its so uninsurable? And how does that affect liability?

Yes, as someone who is part of the birth industry I CHOSE TO BIRTH AT HOME. I chose to birth my miscarried babies at home too. Why? Because I was afraid of all the dangers that lurk in the hospital. If I don't NEED to be in the hospital, it would be foolish for me to go there to receive care that I don't need.
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#64 of 159 Old 08-17-2004, 04:11 PM
 
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Maybe they are more enlightened here in Ontario-

I did not have to pay a single dime for my homebirth, it is completely covered by the government (not even insurence, it is covered for every woman living in my provence) I had a wonderful team of midwives who helped me to give birth to my baby in the water at home.

My son had his cord wrapped around his neck twice, they were more that able to keep me and my fiancee calm whaile unwrapping it.

I am so glad I didn't have any ultrasounds in the last bit of my pregnancy, if they had noticed the cord that would have put me 'high risk' and altered my perfect birth experiance.

Oh and I don't fall into the 'upper middle class educated woman' group. (I am the second youngest woman my midwife has assisted at home, at the age of 17 and haven't graduated highschool- yet, I am also definately not upper- middle class!) I guess I am just scared of hospitals and am more comforatable at home. I guess I am just a bright kid because I know I made the right choice and don't understand how anyone would willingly go to a hospital during one of the most intense times of your life!

Anyways if something did happen that 'required' an emergency C-section, I would probably get to the hospital before the surgeons did so I don't think I put myself or my baby in any increased risk.

I do think that you are out of line posting here, this is not a debate forum. This is a support and discussion forum about homebirth, we don't welcome people with no experiance telling us how to give birth! I don't wlecome the implication that I put myself and my baby at risk by gving birth at home. There are many places where you can do to debate this topic, here is not one of them. This is a community for natural family living. Do you notice that we do not have a 'hospital birth' forum? That us because we realize that there is a time and a place for hospital births, they are not something we want to discuss.

I don't mean to offend or anything, but I am trying to make it clear WHY your post is out of line.

thanks
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#65 of 159 Old 08-17-2004, 04:56 PM
 
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I'm glad you came back to read through the thread Guvly, many mamas provided excellent fact-based responses that I don't see any exuding negativity in.

Yes many responses were emotional. Your OP was also emotionally motivated. That's human nature. Birth in my heart is an emotional issue for me. That is why I am so passionate about it. Everyone here is passionate about it.

Again, this isn't a debate forum, it's a support forum. If you came looking for factual information on homebirth vs. hospital birth, well, you've already found it! but you would have recieved it anyways. And yes there has been objective exchange (at risk of reiterating myself here).

My emotional response would have been about my own personal experience, which is just as important as yours. What our culture teaches about birth however, colors our point of view about our experiences. For the longest time I thought, "thank goodness I gave birth in a hospital, with so many competent Dr.'s and nurses, who saved his life". Yes, they saved his life. After they endangered his life and harmed him (re-read gothmommy's post, my son could have been any number of babies she's cared for). I admit it took me a long time to digest the experience (nearly two years) and come to understand what had truly happened. When I first came to the idea (from a friend of mine) that perhaps Dr's caused the problems in the first place, I was very defensive of the Drs! There was no way! It's a massive paradigm shift. My mind didn't change overnight, I dont' expect other minds to change overnight, and usually I dont' expect most people to change their minds at all.

I've gone on to have a homebirth with my third son, unattended (so the responsibility was soley placed onto myself with much thought and acceptance of that responsibility), which was my best birth, and am currently pregnant now, taking care of myself and am not under the care of any OB or midwife, and planning another unassisted homebirth.
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#66 of 159 Old 08-18-2004, 10:08 AM
 
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Sit back and laugh ladies - this is what happens when women are not fearful.

I too had a c-section with my first, an unmedicated hospital vbac with my second and am currently languishing in love after a HB for #3.

Maybe the questions should be why more women do not empower themselves to be proactive in their births rather than put themselves in the hands of a male dominated medical profession that tells you pain is not normal. This is silly, in a hospital you put your life and the life of the baby in the hands of strangers - at home you take responsbility for your actions. I guess for those that are more litigous going to a hospital is a way of passing the buck?

I agree there are reasons for hospital births - my son was definitely one of them - I have never felt guilt about that because I was educated and informed.

I don't know why I actually took the time to respond to something that was intentionally trying to inflame people but in reality it only amused me.
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#67 of 159 Old 08-18-2004, 10:42 AM
 
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I've really enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts here. I think you just said it all with your last post.... what it comes down to is FEAR. Some people are motivated by fear. Personally, I don't make good decisions from a place of fear, so I have to put it aside and really examine and deal with what is causing the fear.

I know the worst case outcome from birth - and I wouldn't change a thing about where our daughter was born. But home is not for everyone. And I'm glad that some who are litigiously-minded DON'T birth at home, because were they to experience what we did, they would seriously threaten the abitilty of others to homebirth - with lawsuits, trials, investigations, etc.

I'm happy to say we're planning another homebirth and I'm working through my fears - all of which are about the potential actions that anti-homebirthers may take in response to my well-informed, soundly made decision to have my third child at home.

Mama to Noah Jude, 8/17/01, Emerson Lily, HBAC 8/3/03-8/3/03, Beatrice Ruth, homeborn 2/6/05, and Winter Juno Lucine, 12/22/08.:
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#68 of 159 Old 08-18-2004, 05:47 PM
 
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Edited I decided to be nice
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#69 of 159 Old 08-18-2004, 06:02 PM
 
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I saw it before it was edited, though! Funny! :LOL
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#70 of 159 Old 08-18-2004, 06:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greaseball
I saw it before it was edited, though! Funny! :LOL
Aw bummer...that is what I get for leaving to go to the grocery
I'd love to hear a recap if you would be so kind as to PM it to me
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#71 of 159 Old 08-18-2004, 06:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greaseball
I saw it before it was edited, though! Funny! :LOL
Me too! Teeheehee!
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#72 of 159 Old 08-18-2004, 06:51 PM
 
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Ah geez, I got here post edit. What gives?

Well, I think that whole fear based culture stinks. Sure, there are some women who have more difficulties w/their pg and labors. And, a competent midwife screens her clients. If either of my pgs had been high risk, I would've delivered in a hosp WITH my mw.
Q: do you trust your body?
Do you trust your mw?

I had 2 incredibly wonderful homebirths.
DS2 had shoulder dystocia but I just hopped out of the tub and out he plopped into dh's arms.
I would never in a million years give over the care of my birthing exp. to a institutionalized dr. and hosp.
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#73 of 159 Old 08-18-2004, 11:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greaseball
I saw it before it was edited, though! Funny! :LOL
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#74 of 159 Old 08-20-2004, 12:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guvly
But, providing a disabled child with appropriate care, education, and therapy is expensive beyond the means of most normal families. This scenario should be considered, not swept under the rug with sarcasm, self righteousness, and paternalistic snideness.

Many of you express a disregard for making decisions based on liability concerns. I hope you are never involved in a car, workplace, or other accident caused by someone who shares your feelings about insurance.

Guvly,

I get it now ..... you're a lawyer! :LOL
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#75 of 159 Old 08-20-2004, 12:58 PM
 
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Yes, that must be it! :LOL
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#76 of 159 Old 08-20-2004, 01:14 PM
 
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BTW, birth defects aren't cause by homebirth, hospital birth or anything outside the womb.... those are called birth INJURIES and they happen WAY more often in hospitals.

This coming from the mother of one of the beautiful disabled children you claim knowledge of who on a middle class income has easily managed to provide the BEST of care for her. Go post your "objective feedback" on babycenter for the lemming there. We come here because we ARE well informed.
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#77 of 159 Old 08-20-2004, 05:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by guvly
Yes, Jesse-

I am still reading. Many of you have asked why I bothered to post this message to this forum.

There ARE people who have been wiped out financially, and their beautiful children disabled, because of the avoidable and negligent actions of midwives coupled with the lack of disability insurance.

There are THOUSANDS more than those that have been wiped out financially and their beautiful children disabled, because of the avoidable and negligent actions of doctors at a hospital, coupled with the clout of corporations against individuals when involved in the legal system.
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#78 of 159 Old 08-20-2004, 05:46 PM
 
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And any lawyer knows that! Maybe he isn't a lawyer after all...
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#79 of 159 Old 08-20-2004, 06:00 PM
 
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So, I've been reading this post off and on and I have to say I am thankful to the op for his post.
I am currently 15 weeks pregnant and have been tormented about where I should give birth. In my heart I want a homebirth but I have had some lingering doubts. (And unsupportive friends). Reading through everyone’s wonderful, intelligent answers has really made me feel strong about my decision. I have also walked away with new knowledge to share with my questioning family and friends. So thanks everyone.
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#80 of 159 Old 08-20-2004, 06:45 PM
 
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I do agree with the OP that the goal is for the mother and baby to be as well as possible after labor and delivery.

For me, personally, home is the best place to birth.

my experience
Hospital '99
Birth injuries:
I had an episiotomy (did not want it in any circumstance - which I'd previously discussed with my ob/gyn whom I loved).
Obviously, I lost a lot of blood from this incision.
The baby was vacuum extracted (in my opinion, as the laboring mother, everything was fine. Sshe was fine, all was well, and this was unneccessary and traumatizing).
The baby was whisked away to the nursery "for observation because her temperature was low," so I didn't get to hold her or bond with her. I didn't get to hold her for hours. Finally, they brought her to my room, and she got to nurse for the first time hours after her birth.
I did have a doula as an advocate.
I did have a husband as an advocate.
I was well educated--but not educated well enough to realize that I could birth at home without a midwife. (I wanted to have a homebirth, but I couldn't find a midwife in this rural area.)
I had a very thorough birth plan that dh, doula, ob/gyn, & I knew well.
Approx. Cost $5000 hospital (no drugs) + $3000 ob/gyn prenatal care

Homebirth '04
No injuries to mother. I barely lost any blood (300 cc was collected). I had no tearing or stitches.
No injuries to baby. (She came out with her eyes open in one whoosh--head down to feet--whoosh)
I got to hold her immediately.
She got to nurse immediately.
She was with me and bonded with me for days, and now weeks.
Approx. Cost $1300 (for prenatal care & supplies & assistance)

In my heart, there's no comparison. It's so sad that dd # 1 had to be in a little plastic cart in a nursery except when they let her come to my room to nurse until we left the hospital 2 1/2 days after her birth. It's a precious time. Clocks can't be turned back. ...all for observation. In my opinion, she needed to be in her mother's arms, feeling warmth and love.

By the way, dd #1 was given a homeopathic remedy for birth trauma (at the age 2 yrs. 2 mos.).

I feel 100% certain that dd # 2 will test negative for birth trauma. I know she didn't have any trauma. I didn't either. That's worth a lot. No amount of money can buy that.
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#81 of 159 Old 08-21-2004, 10:21 AM
 
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What can you do when people only research one side of things and have one set of statistics? It is not pervasive in the US culture to think for yourself. You are taught to the test and it is a small group of people that writes and answers those tests!

It's the freedom of choice based on liability - you can choose any hospital you want !!!

I can almost guarantee that HB families put more time in selecting their birth support and attendants than hospital birthers - heck you get whatever Dr. is on call. I know my MWs stats - she was much more willing to share than any ob I asked - and with better outcomes. But, she is also one of the few that provides this service in my state and therefor is very cautious about her clients and their health.

I hope that this thread has the opposite affect the OP intended and maybe it seems to be so. Maybe the OP should have selected a different place to try and instill fear.
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#82 of 159 Old 09-28-2004, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
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All-

Those of you who may have been reading this thread may have noticed that I didn't feel comfortable elaborating on the experiences that that lead to my opinions about homebirth. I didn't feel comfortable using the experiences of others to bear the standard for my own attitudes. After talking a bit with the person, I'm a bit more free to do so.

A close friend had a homebirth in a state where homebirth isn't covered by insurance. To make a very long story short, the midwives botched the delivery. They were well intentioned, and I'm sure quite knowledgeable, but they made a mistake. Despite fetal distress early in the delivery, the midwives first delayed taking her to the hospital, then transported her improperly. This resulted in oxygen deprivation during the birth process. The mother was blessed with a beautiful child born with cerebral palsy.

The baby is certainly a blessing- but the mother, now having expensive educational and medical needs to meet, is unable to work. The father, unwilling to cope with his new responsibilities, is nowhere to be found. The silver lining in all of this is that mother and child love one another to death. Love conquers all.

The midwives, who should have had the dignity to try to atone for their well intentioned negligence, dismissed this case as "one in a million." Unfortunately, these women are still practicing in our town. The midwives were never forced to own up to their role in the process, for the following reasons:

1- The full impact of CP is hard to assess at birth. In order to press charges against the midwives, the mother would have to spend years documenting the "damage" done to the child. This is a difficult battle for a single mother with very few resources and a new baby to undertake;
2- Because the midwives were uninsured, lawyers were reluctant to take the case, fearing a long, drawn out legal battle with little potential reward;
3- Since the midwives had convinced our friend that prenatal scans were excessive, there's very little information on how the baby developed over the course of the pregnancy;

So, in the end, this story will never be told. Our friend, her daughter, and this birth, aren't reflected anywhere in the statistics. Mistakes made by someone else's hands that most likely caused, and certainly compounded her condition will cause a lifetime of implications for both our friend and her beautiful daughter. Fortunately, our friend has risen to these new challenges very well, and my wife and I are both impressed by her. Hopefully, the next person harmed by these people will have the resources to take them to task.

This isn't to say that midwives are bad, evil, or homebirths are bad or evil, or even inherently more dangerous than hospital births. It is to say that birth CAN be a complicated, and risky business, which I'm sure everyone understands. Because it is risky, the people that practice it have an ethical obligation to be adequately covered in the event of an accident or poor judgement on their part.

I have insurance on my car- not to protect myself, but to give someone I may harm as a result of an accident adequate protection to cover their care should they need it as a result of my mistake. That's not paranoid, nor does it mean that I let liability rule my life- it merely means I'm trying to do right by the people I may hurt. I can't understand why someone would expose their child to that risk.

For those of you that are reading this list looking for objective info- remember the vitriolic tone of many of those that responded to my postings (which echo the tone of many hospital birth advocates). Please consider that a reactive tone usually reveals an underlying prejudice or insecurity that certainly taints objectivity.

Both of my children were born with a midwife present, and we were extremely grateful for their help and support. My first son was born by C-section after a long labor and our midwife told us she thought it was best. (Not because her partner was unsupportive, as someone suggested earlier.) Thank god we were in the hospital! Our daughter was born in a hospital without any intervention- although our midwife was present for only the last hour of labor. I still believe that the best birthing option is in a hospital with a clear birth plan and a midwife or doula serving as your advocate.

Perhaps, if our friend had been in a hospital, things could have turned out differently- who knows? I'm sure she'll be thinking about that for a long time. But, in the end, she was blessed with a beautiful baby, and that's all that really matters.

Flame on...
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#83 of 159 Old 09-28-2004, 11:51 AM
 
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Yes, CP is just awful. How sad for this mother.
John Edwards, VP candidate has made a career out of seeking suit against OB's that have mismanaged births resulting in CP. It is a true risk of having a baby- just as real as maternal death, infant death. An unbelivable amount of CP cases come out of American hospitals everyday! The remedy for this is of course choosing cesarean over vaginal birth. Not choosing hospital over homebirth. Do you see the inaccuracy of the comparison?

I still don't see your point about homebirth being unsafe. Life is unsafe, birth is a normal biological risk of both mother and baby.
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#84 of 159 Old 09-28-2004, 12:13 PM
 
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For every bad outcome from homebirth, how many hundreds more are from hospital birth?

Why is it that the countries with the lowest infant and maternal mortality rates also have the lowest c-section rates, and highest homebirth rates?
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#85 of 159 Old 09-28-2004, 12:32 PM
 
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Guvly,

This is a tough situation. It really has to come to where the mother feels the most comfortable and safe birthing. Risk happens everywhere. It's difficult to know from your story if the midwives were "responsible" for your friend's baby having C.P. It's always difficult to know who or what to blame, but I do know from experience that most people just want to blame SOMEONE.

My daughter died last year during our homebirth. Would the outcome have been different at a hospital? I will never know and will think about it for the rest of my life. The medical examiner, ER docs, midwives...everyone concurrs that no, the outcome would have been the same no matter where we birthed. No one expects or wants anything to happen to their beautiful baby. Luckily, I don't have feelings of anger toward or want to blame our midwives. They were all very skilled and loving - and you can't ask for more. Unfortunately there are some untrained women out there calling themselves midwives - which is why it's so important to be self-educated and really get to know the people you select to assist you with homebirth. (The same is true of a practice for a hospital birth.)

I trusted the midwives we used for our first pregnancy and they gave me a drug, not even FDA approved for induction, which caused us to need an emergency c-section. This was a difficult lesson, but I take responsibility for it, because I chose them to work with.

I'm planning another homebirth for our current baby due in January. But because I have concerns about how my own emotional state will be when I'm in labor, I've chosen to be with midwives who also have hospital privileges - that way I can give myself the best of all possible situations, and decide what's best when the time comes. We all have to take responsibility for our choices - and how wonderful that we have them.

I guess my main concern here is that I think I'm sensing you trying to use fear to dissuade women from homebirth. No good decisions are ever made from a place of fear. Just this past weeked, at a birth discussion group being held at a women's fair, a CNM tried to use my daughter's death as a scare tactic. She had no information about what actually happened during my awesome labor and birth. My husband and I feel it's so important to share our story because like it or not, we're an example of what CAN happen at a homebirth and at a hospital birth, that you never plan for or expect. But we would never do it in a scary way. Death, birth defects, etc...these are all NORMAL, NATURAL outcomes of the birth process. This is expecially difficult to understand when it happens to you and those you love.

Respectfully,
Mary

Mama to Noah Jude, 8/17/01, Emerson Lily, HBAC 8/3/03-8/3/03, Beatrice Ruth, homeborn 2/6/05, and Winter Juno Lucine, 12/22/08.:
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#86 of 159 Old 09-28-2004, 03:33 PM
 
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It doesn't really matter if the midwife has malpractice insurance or not - if a state feels that a midwife acted irresponsibly (and hindsight is always 20/20), they will not hesitate to take criminal or civil action against said midwife. Trust me on this.

There are also plenty of attorneys that are chomping at the bit over cases like this.

I don't think it's an issue that homebirth is safe / is not safe. CP and fetal distress and mismanagement also occur in the hospital.

What I take away from the story is honest communication with the care providers. That couples need to choose providers that they respect and trust, but also allow the parents to still be the true experts in their care with choices and individuality. It sounds like this couple have some serious issues with the way their birth was handled, and I would encourage them to seek out a mediator to discuss it with the midwives.

Then again, we're hearing one side of a story - a story that is tragic and obviously could have some serious emotional clouding of the facts.

I'm sorry that happened to that family. Definitely.

However, as others have posted, it does not mean that hospital birth is not without these sorts of risks (because it is) or that homebirth is not safe (because it is for many low-risk women). We all have decide the risks in our life - and what we feel comfortable with.

Each family has a responsibility to be proactive in their care and not assume that any care provider is without human misjudgement or human error. Putting care providers in a role of being the "all knowing expert" or "godlike" is what has created the level of litigioius fear in our culture. And it's this fear of malpractice litigation that has created an unsafe atmosphere for low-risk women to birth in - at home and in the hospital.
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#87 of 159 Old 09-28-2004, 03:34 PM
 
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A baby is MUCH more likely to be injured by an OB in a hospital than by a midwife at home. Knowing this, why would I expose my baby to the risk of a hospital?

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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#88 of 159 Old 09-28-2004, 03:38 PM
 
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Gruvly, I am questioning your story a bit here.

First, baby had heart decels. Could happen at home or in the hospital, although in my experience as a doula who does all kinds of births, decels are common in hospitals because of stress and intervention whereas they are very rare at home. In both situations, a good caregiver would have mom change positions, take in some oxygen, and listen again. Sometimes these things disappear after a few simple natural remedies. How did they "transport" her wrong? I've never heard of such a thing. Unless the cord was presenting first, in which case the hands-knees position should be taken while the midwife holds the baby's head off the cord.

I can say from experience that all of the things that go "wrong" in hospitals usually don't happen at home. And sorry, but your CNM sounds like a "medwife", not a midwife. Good midwives know that labor CAN last days, and it's all within the realm of normal. If you're at home, you can sleep, eat, drink, run errands, take a hot bath, have a glass of wine...... and cope with it fine. A long labor doesn't = cesarean unless you're working within the medical model of childbirth.

Some ppl want to make sure they can sue if stuff goes wrong, and that's fine. Some ppl would rather remove most of the risk of childbirth in the first place, and that's fine, too.
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#89 of 159 Old 09-28-2004, 03:47 PM
 
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If you're interested, there are a TON of studies done about the safety of home vs. hospital birth; a lot of it is done not by some hippie-dippie folks wanting to prove a point but by the World Health Organization itself. They have declared our model of ob-attended hospital birth a CRIME that is doing great harm to mothers, babies, families, and to society at large. They recommend that we adopt midwives and home birth as the cheapest, safest way in which to birth. The Netherlands ranks #1 in the world as the safest country to birth...... where you have to pay out of pocket to see an obstetrician if you are low risk. Over 1/3 of women birth at home. 95% use midwives.

Here, we rank 24th.

'Nuff said.
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#90 of 159 Old 09-28-2004, 03:49 PM
 
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My first child was born in the hospital emergency c-section. Why the emergency c-section? Because I had a very short cord wrapped numerous times around my sons neck and it was strangling him with every ctx. My body knew this as I had NO ctx until I was put on pitocin to induce labour after my waters broke on their own. I had NSTs and U/S from 40 weeks on all resulting in the medical staff telling me my child was fine. I on the other hand told my OB at 37 weeks something was wrong and would need a c-section. A close friend went through the same thing with one great exception - she lost her baby and tests told her if the baby had survived the baby would have suffered immeasurable brain damage.

Everything has it's time and place but to think that the medical profession and its tools are infallible is incredibly misleading.

Now I must run to get DD - 7 weeks old - born at home safely and peacefully.
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