Failed homebirthers vs successful homebirthers... - Mothering Forums

 
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#1 of 21 Old 04-27-2005, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well "versus" asounds like a rivalry but seriously I am dealing with feelings when it comes to hearing about those women who have effortless homebirths.
My family is now 0 for 2, and if we have a third child it is not looking like we'll be able to do a homebirth due to my babies having IUGR. (and that is a whole other thread I don't have the time or energy for yet....)
But I am so passionalte about homebirth and believe in it whole heartedly so WHY CAN"T I HAVE ONE??? I feel as though this sounds very "woe is me" and selfish because I cannot nor can my babies help that they had this problem but I deseperatey want to birth in my own home, in my own bed . Twice I've done the hospital thing when I was planning a homebirth (the first was a transfer and the second I was asked to induce b/c "baby could die" at 35 weeks--this happened on the day of my home visit, i might add) and I DEEPLY DISLIKE the hospital...i feel like a Borg, straight out of star trek, like a science project and striped of a magical experience.

And that I am dealing with, but I can't help this feeling i get when I hear about other moms having successful homebirths....i don't want to say jealousy but maybe it is....i am not familiar with that feeling. Everytime I hear a story, I just think "why not me??" I am not really down with the "everything happens for a reason theory..." because it doesn't mesh with my beliefs. I am doing the best with my situation but I wonder if other mom's out there have this feeling....?
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#2 of 21 Old 04-27-2005, 09:45 PM
 
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Just jumping on board here. I don't think I'll ever try again, though. I think my failure had to do with me doubting myself and my "D"H not being supportive. I don't think I'll ever stop being bitter over it. Unless something happens and I'm not with him anymore, I don't think I want another baby. I should have known all along, he's pretty good at talking the talk but not walking the walk, kwim?
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#3 of 21 Old 04-27-2005, 10:11 PM
 
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I dont know ... but replace "homebirth" with "VBAC" and I could have written your exact post. (((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))
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#4 of 21 Old 04-27-2005, 10:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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yeah i figured that c-sec mamas have a similar issue. and that is one thing I feel greatful for in my situation-- that I was able to birth my babies vaginally. i hate to say that out in the open b/c i know so many mamas wanted to birth vag and ended up with csecs and i don't want to rub salt in any wounds but pushing my babies out felt goooood. i at least have that. you can always say that though.....that you have it better than someone out there (ie at least csec moms had healthy babes but then there are mom' sthat have lost babes but at least those moms have there health etc....) it's all relative though and we all have unique experiences with valid feelings about them.

paquerette-- sounds like you've had some a rough time. never say never. life has blown me away more than once. soon that will really be in the past and who knows....?
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#5 of 21 Old 04-27-2005, 10:47 PM
 
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I can totally relate to where you are coming from. I really wanted homebirths with my last 2 but they were born at 32 and 33 weeks and it just wasn't an option. Now that I am certain that I'm done having babies I find myself very sad and envious of women who have the births that I wanted. There have been a few times where I've found myself fantasizing (wow, how is that spelled??) about the day when my kids have babies and wondering if I'll be able to influance them into hb's.
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#6 of 21 Old 04-28-2005, 02:06 AM
 
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I have to confess I am one who had an easy hb. However my mw is a lay-midwife and has told me that 99% of her clients are mothers who have had either Nurse midwives or other regulated type mws and have had bad experiences, either c-sections, transfers, etc..... She talks alot about how regulation in mw is going to be the death of it. Now I'm sure maybe if some mws read this they'll be very offended.

But from what she's said, there is so much liability around being a mw, that they are being beaten into submission by this. By fear of litigation. And so they have to transfer for so many reasons that they would not have done 30, 50, 100 years ago.

They have regulations about if the mother is at this many weeks and this happens then they have to transfer, if they go over 41 weeks then they have to transfer etc....

I am certain that you could have a happy healthy homebirth, perhaps you need to seek out a really good lay-midwife who has dealt with these issues....
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#7 of 21 Old 04-28-2005, 02:43 AM
 
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s - no mother is a failure!

"Vaccines are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get - acute hemorrhagic edema of infancy, allergies, diabetes, eczema, petit/gran mal seizures, ADEM, AFP, ASIA, CFS, GBS, JPA, JRA, LGS, LKS, MS, POF, POTS, RA, SJS, SLE, SPD, TPI, Henoch-Schonlein purpua, fibromyalgia, Retts Syndrome, encephalitis, Hughes Syndrome, neurological damage, coma, or death."

~paraphrased from "Forrest Gump"~
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#8 of 21 Old 04-28-2005, 12:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mama_nomad
And that I am dealing with, but I can't help this feeling i get when I hear about other moms having successful homebirths....i don't want to say jealousy but maybe it is....i am not familiar with that feeling. Everytime I hear a story, I just think "why not me??" I am not really down with the "everything happens for a reason theory..." because it doesn't mesh with my beliefs. I am doing the best with my situation but I wonder if other mom's out there have this feeling....?
It is completely normal to feel this way. I can certainly relate from the VBAC POV. I had those same thoughts and feelings before my VBAC when I would see everyone around me having vag births. I wanted more than anything to have that experience.

Each birth is different, you never know what might happen next time. You may find yourself at term begging him/her to please come out. I wish you the best.
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#9 of 21 Old 04-28-2005, 01:02 PM
 
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What is your will?

Do your will.

Joyce in the mts.

CD Labor/Postpartum (MSTM), Doula trainer (BAI), Midwifery Student/Apprentice, CPS Tech
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#10 of 21 Old 04-28-2005, 01:36 PM
 
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I had those exact feelings after my homebirth transport with DD #1. I wanted with every fiber of my being to give birth at home but it just wouldn't happen. I pushed for 10 hours and still no baby. I ended up with the vaccum and a pretty damaged soul. I was so upset that I even contimplated not having anymore children. I was so upset when I got pregnant again that I felt guilty for months for not being happy about another child. All this stemmed from my transport and how I was treated. I ended up having DD #2 at a free standing birth center since there were no home birth MW in Louisiana in our area at the time. That birth was so healing. I gave birth vaginally with no help and a completely intact body. I was so amazed at my body. I hope to have one more child and finally get my homebirth.

I don't think it is crazy to feel the way you do. Society totally tries to put down a woman when her birth doesn't go as planned and she feels disappointment. They call her selfish and ungrateful. They make her feelings into something trivial and they are not. If you feel cheated, robbed, stripped, and just broken that is perfectly acceptable. Feel those feelings and allow your self to heal from your births. Hopefully you will get what you desire if you have any more children.

Sara
I love my girlsMadaline(9), Mary-Grace(7), Georgia(3), & Evelyn(1)
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#11 of 21 Old 04-28-2005, 01:40 PM
 
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I think it's great that you continue to be very pro-homebirth. Some mamas, understandably but unfortunately, decide that since they couldn't (or "couldn't") do it, it must be a bad idea.

Don't stop striving for and planning the birth that you want (should you choose to have another), but also know that in the grand scheme of things, there really are some births that are better done in the hospital, safer, and if you believe that yours are some of those, then be grateful that you have that option, and know that your belief in homebirth is not contradictory to your belief that your babies (or you) needed the hospital.

Now, you may decide that your births DON'T qualify as "need to be in the hospital," in which case don't let yourself be bullied into believing that they did!

And, certainly, believing that your babies needed to be born in the hospital does NOT mean you have to believe that the way hospitals work (hah!) with birth is good/acceptable, and doesn't mean you can't fight for better treatment when you or other women have to/choose to birth in the hospital.

I also encourage you to give yourself permission to feel all that "stuff" you're feeling; the jealousy, the anger, the sadness, the grief, the joy - all of it. Don't be afraid to feel jealousy if that's how you feel. Don't be afraid to grieve the birth you didn't have if you need to.

Anyway, all my advice pretty much boils down to being many words for what Joyce said. Explore your will, find it fully and truly. Then do it. And once you do, let that be enough - don't always question yourself and your decisions. You did the best you could given all that you knew and had available to you at the time.

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#12 of 21 Old 04-28-2005, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyce in the mts.
What is your will?

Do your will.

Joyce in the mts.
truthfully my will, my instinct says let your babies do their own thing. if baby needs to get out soooner than later, then my body will go into labor. maybe my growth restricted baby needs lots of extra time in the womb. the second time this happened, the dr. that i was sent to by my mw's backup OB was the cheif of staff at our local conser. hospital and i was currently in a letter battle in the local paper with him about homebirth and midwives and he called homebirthers reckless. so when i cam in to consult with him and he said that he'd seen many IUGR babies die in utero, so if i induce he could "guarantee me a live child" and "most people don't like dead babies" i felt powerless as he already saw me as a "reckless" homebirther. my instinct said let baby have more time to grow--but i was confused and thought maybe it wasnt my instinct, maybe it was my selfish desire to homebirth and i was putting my baby at risk. how do you explain to a medical "authority" about instinct, YK?

my first birth transferred by the way b/c my labor kept crapping out probably due to a difficiency in birth hormones related to the IUGR (intrauterine growth restriction) so I got to ten finally, pushed for half a day and went back to 8.

i guess i feel like if I give my baby the best chance to do it's own thing at home and if baby dies b/c baby has this iugr issue then i would be "nailed to a cross" for not going to a hospital where they could have as Dr. M said "delivered me a live baby". I don't know how I feel about technology and if just b/c it exists and is available, it has to be used. most people would say that "I would do anything neccessary to save my baby" so it seems like a selfish path to take in today's society. it's weird for an aethiest I think I have a lot of amish/christian scientist tenancies!
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#13 of 21 Old 04-28-2005, 02:36 PM
 
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It's probably nothing to do with you or your body, but rather with the type of provider you have. If you want to try hb again, learn the midwife's transfer protocol and what happens if you refuse the transfer. I also think anyone considering hb should stay away from providers with backup OBs, and refrain from seeing an OB practice on the side. Your best bet may be an unlicensed midwife who does not have to follow anyone else's rules.

My midwife (unlicensed) told me exactly what I wanted to hear: she recommends transfer only in cases of persistent fetal distress, placenta previa, cord prolapse, or transverse baby that won't turn. She also said that even in these cases, she gives the mother the right to continue the home birth. (And she has delivered a cord prolapse baby at home after the mother decided it was what she wanted!)

I also asked her about post-dates; she told me she had a client go 7 weeks over and that was all I needed to hear! I would be wary of anyone who seemed to think going 2-3 weeks over was a concern.

I also asked her about weight: how much should the mother gain, how much should the baby weigh? She said healthy babies can be anywhere from 5 to 10 lbs; that she doesn't worry about the baby's weight or the mother's. I gained 50 lbs and there were single weeks when I put on as much as 5 lbs and she said no problem!

I was planning a hb with #1 and then at 36 weeks was told I could not do it due to GBS. I was really bummed about planning this for 8 months and then having to transfer to a medical practice. I felt cheated and later learned that the particular midwife does do hbs with GBS+ moms, so I never really knew why I was discharged from her care. I decided that it was just too much trouble and that if I wanted another child I would just do a hospital birth. Luckily I changed my mind...

Try and find a midwife who does twins, breech and VBACs and you should find more of what you're looking for, even if these situations do not apply to you. Remember, someone unlicensed/illegal may be your best bet. It really does seem like most of the hb transfers I read about are when the mom has a CNM or other midwife with OB backup.
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#14 of 21 Old 04-28-2005, 02:48 PM
 
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Well, what about this?:

You plan for the homebirth (Plan A) that you want, and have a back-up plan (Plan B).

If I was you...and my will actually came down to having the very most satisfying birth possible no matter where or when...I would hire a doula to help me and my dh/partner/primary support person to hone our skills as a unit, to use all tools at my disposal: comfort measures, informed choices, Plan B, etc. These are the things you can trust because you chose them.

That way, you own it all and get the best either way. Edited to add to this...I have forgotten the importance of a good birth attendant and yes, I agree that a laymidwife is a good bet! And by the way, "laymidwife" is not a perjorative term in my experience...I have studied with them, I have had them attend me, and I respect them for respecting me and my choices, AND a good doula who can be in harmony with your midwife, additionally, can help you to focus and do the work.

So again...plan for your heart's desire, make a good clear back-up plan, (eta get yourself a great birth attendant, get a great doula to help you and dh/partner stay the course.

NO matter what- you can own your experience because YOU planned well.

Own your will, own your choices, equip yourself the very best you can with tools and people who will support you best, and then...let the baby come; and he/she WILL. All will inevitably be revealed, so there's no point in entertaining what-ifs. Just plan well.

And...there is nothing wrong with feeling your feelings; nothing at all, but then...let go and free yourself of all that second-guessing and baggage so that you are acting in harmony with the knowledge that every birth is different and you are planning well to meet anything with confident action.

You can own your experience wherever it occurs, but to do that you need to plan and follow through proactively. Does any of this make any sense at all?

If not...my apologies...I also hope I have not offended anyone. I often think I am being clear, when I am not.

You have my respect and my support whatever you choose to do and indeed, whatever you choose...you will have a baby.

Life itself- not to be glib or trite, but sincerely- is a gamble. There ARE no guarantees. Docs nor midwives, nor you nor me can really control anything. Best we can do is prepare for the best experience possible and have a good clear backup plan and helpers that can help remind us who owns the experience no matter what or where it happens.

I have given birth at home and in a hospital. My kids are grown. Truly anything could have happened in either place.

I wish you well as you continue to work things through for yourself.

I believe in you, trust you and support you.
Joyce in the mts.

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#15 of 21 Old 04-28-2005, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyce in the mts.
You have my respect and my support whatever you choose, and indeed, whatever you choose...you will have a baby. EVERY choice has a result and consequence, no matter what you do.

Life itself- not to be glib or trite, but sincerely- is a gamble. There ARE no guarantees. Docs nor midwives, nor you nor me can really control anything. Best we can do is prepare for the best experience possible and have a backup plan and helpers that can help remind us who owns the experience no matter what or where it happens.

I have given birth at home and in a hospital. My kids are grown. Truly anything could have happened in either place.

I wish you well as you continue to work things through for yourself.

I believe in you, trust you and support you.
Joyce in the mts.
Life is a gamble, I totally agree. It's so easy to sell out to fear in America and think that if we invent enough drugs and procedures we can save all lives, but that just isn't natural. In the process we lose faith in ourselves, even if we have the illusion of gaining control. I'll never know what could have or what will be.
Thanks for your words, and support.
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#16 of 21 Old 04-28-2005, 03:06 PM
 
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Don't be afraid to be selfish.

Here are some quotes you might appreciate:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MANA Statement of Values and Ethics
I. Woman as an Individual with Unique Value and Worth:
B. We value a woman's right to make choices regarding all aspects of her life.

II. Mother and Baby as Whole:
A. We value the oneness of the pregnant mother and her unborn child - an inseparable and interdependent whole.

III. The Nature of Birth:
B. We value pregnancy and birth as natural processes that technology will never supplant.3 (3. Supplant means to supersede by force or cunning; to take the place of.)
D. We value pregnancy and birth as personal, intimate, internal,4 sexual and social events to be shared in the environment and with the attendants a woman chooses. (4. In this context internal refers to the fact that birth happens within the body and psyche of the woman. Ultimately she and only she can give birth.)
F. We value pregnancy and birth as processes which have lifelong impact on a woman's self esteem, her health, her ability to nurture, and her personal growth.

IV. The Art of Midwifery:
F. We value skills which support a complicated pregnancy or birth to move toward a sate of greater well-being or to be brought to the most healing conclusion possible. We value the art of letting go. 6 (6. This addresses our desire for an uncomplicated birth whenever possible and recognizes that there are times when it is not possible. For example, due to problems with the birth, a woman may be least traumatized to have a surgical delivery. If a spontaneous vaginal birth is not possible, then we let go of that goal in order to achieve the possibility of a healthy mother and baby. Likewise, the situation where parents choose to allow a very ill, premature or deformed infant to die in their arms rather than being subjected to multiple surgeries, separations and ICU stays. This too, is a letting go of the normal for the most healing choice possible within the framework of the parent's ethics given the circumstances. What is most healing will, of course, vary from individual to individual.)
G. We value the acceptance of death as a possible outcome of birth. We value our focus as supporting life rather than avoiding death.7 (7. We place the emphasis of our care on supporting life (preventive measures, good nutrition, emotional health, etc.) and not pathology, diagnosis, treatment of problems, and heroic solutions in an attempt to preserve life at any cost of quality.)

V. Woman as mother:
A. We value a mother's intuitive knowledge of herself and her baby before, during and after birth.8 (8. This addresses the medical model's tendency to ignore a woman's sense of well-being or danger in many aspects of health care, but particularly in regard to her pregnancy.)
B. We value a woman's innate ability to nurture her pregnancy and birth her baby; the power and beauty of her body as it grows and the awesome strength summoned in labor.
C. We value the mother as the only direct care provider for her unborn child.9 (9. This acknowledges that the thrust, of our care centers on the mother, her health, her well-being, her nutrition, her habits, her emotional balance and, in turn, the baby benefits. This view is diametrically opposed to the medical model which often attempts to care for the fetus/baby while dismissing or even excluding the mother.)

VI. The Nature of Relationship:
D. We value the concept of personal responsibility and the right of individuals to make choices regarding what they deem best for themselves. We value the right to true informed choice, not merely informed consent to what we think is best.
I've bolded some of the areas I think might be most appropriate for you.

I encourage you to read the entire document and meditate (or whatever you do to think profoundly) on what it has to say and how it relates to your situation. MANA Statement of Values and Ethics

Also, PP (while I was typing this) are offering great advice and profound wisdom. Just to throw my two cents in.
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#17 of 21 Old 04-28-2005, 03:08 PM
 
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to you too, Mama.

Joyce in the mts.

CD Labor/Postpartum (MSTM), Doula trainer (BAI), Midwifery Student/Apprentice, CPS Tech
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#18 of 21 Old 04-28-2005, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arwyn
Don't be afraid to be selfish.

Here are some quotes you might appreciate:


I've bolded some of the areas I think might be most appropriate for you.

I encourage you to read the entire document and meditate (or whatever you do to think profoundly) on what it has to say and how it relates to your situation. MANA Statement of Values and Ethics

Also, PP (while I was typing this) are offering great advice and profound wisdom. Just to throw my two cents in.

You're bolded statements do hit the nail on the head for me. I feel like next time around I will do EVERYTHING I can as far as preventative measures go and if this is still the case, my heart says that I cannot just go that second route I took and handed my care over. My sweet midwife and hubby were by my side the whole time but I know that I have many choices and I'll be damned if feel overpowered again by mainstream healthcare. Like I said before I feel I have these amish/christian scientist type beliefs that b/c I am not actually part of these group I don't have an "excuse" or an organized body backing my to pass it off on to escape any persecution. actually it is funny b/c in order ti get the placenta of our second baby we have to contest that for religious practices we needed it for ritual and even then we had to sign forms to have it released. i guess our own family had a belief system of its own to be respected and no body but us need to know the details.

thanks for the mantras.
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#19 of 21 Old 04-29-2005, 09:27 AM
 
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Hi just saying a yes to you as well. I planned a hb knowing all the crap that goes down in hospitals but ended up transferring and having the hospy experience from hell. Still recovering! For my next birth I will also plan a hb but have the backup plan to end all backup plans in mind. I am also taking a long hard look at which MW, if any, I choose. There is sometimes a divide between women who have achieved hb and those of us who achieved births not in our our surroundings. I use my traumatic experience to work with other women on improving their experiences and empowering them. I needed to make meaning from what was a barbaric slaughter of my body and spirit. I am an "everything happens for a reason" gal

I love that you have stayed committed to hb. I hope that you achieve an empowering, peaceful birth if you have another chance. I wish it for us all.
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#20 of 21 Old 04-29-2005, 09:51 AM
 
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I feel the same way.

Jam 7, Peanut Butter 5, and Bread 2.

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#21 of 21 Old 04-29-2005, 10:01 AM
 
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