Homebirth in upstate NY - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 32 Old 06-14-2006, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Does anyone know how possible it is too find a homebirth midwife in upstate NY?? I tried looking with my last pregnancy but was not impressed with what I found. I only found on and she charged way more than I could afford and wouldn't allow anyone else in the house except for dh and I because she was afraid she would get turned in...(attending a homebirth in NY is illegal for all medical personnel. Including midwives...)

I would like to consider a homebirth. Although I know it would take a lot of persuasion for dh. Any info you can give me would be great!!!
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#2 of 32 Old 06-14-2006, 06:05 PM
 
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Attending a home birth is not illegal in NY. There are licensing issues with DEM's though, so you would most likely need to find a CNM. I'm not sure what the birth climate is like upstate, but there are several CNM's downstate, NYC and Long Island that legally attend home births.

Try looking here:

http://www.cfmidwifery.org/states/states.asp?ST=45

http://www.acnm.org/find.cfm

http://midwifeinfo.com/mi_search.php...at=findmidwife

Good luck with your search!
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#3 of 32 Old 06-14-2006, 08:59 PM
 
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It is damn near impossible to find a homebirth midwife in upstate New York. I started (actively!) looking for one 2 years before I started TTC, and I didn't find one until I was 5 months pregnant!

Yes, the reason it is so difficult to find one is that it is illegal for a Certified Professional Midwife to attend a homebirth in New York State.

It isn't illegal for all medical personnel to attend a homebirth in NYS. A doctor could do it if he wanted to. A nurse-midwife could do it if she had the permission of the doctor she works under.

The reason it is illegal for a CPM is that she is NOT considered medical personnel. NYS does not even recognize CPMs.

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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#4 of 32 Old 06-14-2006, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So if that is the case then why are they so hard to find??
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#5 of 32 Old 06-14-2006, 09:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pbreffe
So if that is the case then why are they so hard to find??
Well to put it the way a friend of mine looking for a mw in her hbmw's-are-illegal state "it's like trying to infiltrate the mafia". It's like calling someone who knows someone who knows the mw...you have to stay a little paraniod.
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#6 of 32 Old 06-14-2006, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That is funny!

But since I don't know anyone who has had a homebirth it is hard to find anyone!
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#7 of 32 Old 06-14-2006, 09:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pbreffe
That is funny!

But since I don't know anyone who has had a homebirth it is hard to find anyone!
I know the feeling of not knowing anyone who'd had a hb before. When I was preg with my second baby, I first got an inkling of how scarce they were, and by the time I was preg with my third baby, a friend of the family told me they'd had a hb transfer years ago, and that was about it at that point. (my second was a hosp induction , my third a planned UC)

Have you cross posted in the FYT forum, maybe mamas there can help?
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#8 of 32 Old 06-14-2006, 10:17 PM
 
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Where upstate are you? I grew up in Brooklyn, so everything North of the Bronx is upstate to me.

I'm in the Hudson Valley and there are tons of homebirth midwives in the area (both CNMs and DEMs). If you'd like any info about them, let me know.

If you're waaay up yonder, I suggest going to ICAN, LLL, and API meetings in your area. Crunchy people tend to congregate there and you're likely to find other homebirthers. (ICAN people tend to have good dirt on the local birth community. All women, especially pregnant mamas, are welcome at their meetings.)
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#9 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 11:36 AM
 
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Where upstate are you? There are several CNMs who attend homebirths in Westchester: Valerie Pasqua-Masback, Martha Roth, Judy Joffee and others. Then there's the Danbury, CT birthing center if you don't want a homebirth or can't find a CNM you like...but there are a fair number of CNMs and also some DEMs.

My advice is to be very upfront about what you want and if the CNM you are interviewing (by phone maybe) can't give it, ask for other referrals. From what I learned, CNMs can't attend known breeches and have other limitations and they must have hospital backup.

Also the midwives downstate may have ideas for midwives further upstate so call and ask if they know.

I hope this helps somewhat and good luck with your homebirth! (I had two homebirths in upstate NY in the last 2.5 years)
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#10 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 04:14 PM
 
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A few years ago the New Years Baby on the front of the paper was a homebirth, and there are some homebirth midwives that advertise in the crunchy information sources.

savithny, 42 year old moderate mom to DS Primo (age 12) and DD Secunda (age 9).

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#11 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 04:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sustainer
A nurse-midwife could do it if she had the permission of the doctor she works under.
Does this really ever happen, though? :

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#12 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 04:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skellbelle
Does this really ever happen, though? :
Not in my experience.

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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#13 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 04:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sustainer
It is damn near impossible to find a homebirth midwife in upstate New York. I started (actively!) looking for one 2 years before I started TTC, and I didn't find one until I was 5 months pregnant!

Yes, the reason it is so difficult to find one is that it is illegal for a Certified Professional Midwife to attend a homebirth in New York State.

It isn't illegal for all medical personnel to attend a homebirth in NYS. A doctor could do it if he wanted to. A nurse-midwife could do it if she had the permission of the doctor she works under.

The reason it is illegal for a CPM is that she is NOT considered medical personnel. NYS does not even recognize CPMs.
I just had a homebirth in NY with a Certified Professional Midwife (not a CNM)
They are not illegal.
eta: Yay--a link!! NYS Education Department--Midwifery

in fact if you have enough energy, NYS even says your insurnace should pay for a homebirth.
I just didn't have the energy to duke it out with them.

I'm just outside of Binghamton, in Broome County.
There are homebirth midwives in Ithaca too...
not sure where else as you move upstate more.

Try asking around your Health Food Store--they tend to know stuff like that...
or look and see if there is a naturopath in the area--they might know too

mom to three boys:  reading.gif(18 bigeyes.giffencing.gif(10&7)
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#14 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 05:21 PM
 
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The page you linked to is about LMs, not CPMs. There's a big difference between LMs and CPMs/DEMs.

The page you linked to states:
Quote:
Under New York State law, licensed midwives are required to establish and maintain a collaborative relationship with physicians, and to practice in accordance with a written agreement with a licensed physician or a hospital.
Here's a link to a page about CPMs:

http://www.cfmidwifery.org/states/states.asp?ST=45

Nothing would please me more than to find out that CPMs may now legally attend homebirths!

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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#15 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 05:31 PM
 
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okay...we are quibbling over definitions here...but:
from the link I posted above:
Quote:
Licensed midwives who are also nurses may use the title "nurse-midwives" or "certified nurse-midwife" (CNM). Others use the title "certified midwives" (CM's).
DEM midwives who have not gone through the licensing are not legal in the state. I agree with you on that.

To be licensed, a NON-CNM must complete these requirements
but then at that point they can practice OUTSIDE of the hospital scene--including homebirths.

So the state requires that midwives complete accredited training and stuff...but not that they be CNMs.

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#16 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 05:42 PM
 
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Licensed midwives who are also nurses may use the title "nurse-midwives" or "certified nurse-midwife" (CNM). Others use the title "certified midwives" (CM's).
Exactly. There's a big difference between a CPM/DEM and a CM.

It is legal for a CM to attend a homebirth if the written agreement that she is legally required to have with a physician or hospital allows for it. I'll grant you that.

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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#18 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 06:13 PM
 
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I agree with Unreal. This is basically what I understand about NYS midwifery laws:

DEMs without any certification may not legally attend homebirths.
CPMs (DEMs who have gone through the certification process) may legally attend homebirths. (I know two midwives who are currently in the process of becoming certified.)
CNMs may legally attend homebirths.
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#19 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 06:21 PM
 
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You guys are confusing CPMs with CMs. My midwife is a CPM but she can not legally attend home births. New York State does not recognize the CPM credential.

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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#20 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 06:33 PM
 
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http://www.op.nysed.gov/midwifeqa.htm

Quote:
Does New York State law require that licensed midwives be supervised by a physician?

No. New York State law does not require supervision by a physician. Rather, the law provides that licensed midwives must establish a collaborative practice and maintain a written practice agreement with a physician or hospital and practice in accordance with that agreement. (see also questions 12-15 below)


Does the New York State Education law allow home birth?


New York State law neither prohibits home birth nor requires licensed midwives to participate in them. Patients should discuss the issue of home birth with their LM.


What is the relationship between licensed midwives and physicians?


Licensed midwives are independent practitioners with expertise in the care of essentially healthy women. Under New York State law, licensed midwives are required to establish and maintain a collaborative relationship with physicians, and to practice in accordance with a written agreement with a licensed physician or a hospital. Such agreements provide for physician consultation, collaboration, referral and emergency obstetrical coverage and include written guidelines and protocols. Agreements also include guidelines for identification of pregnancies which are not considered normal and the procedures that are to be followed in such cases. They provide that the judgment of the collaborating physician will prevail as to whether the pregnancy, childbirth or post-partum care is normal and whether the woman is essentially healthy, unless otherwise provided in the practice protocol. Licensed midwives consult with, co-manage or refer patients to collaborating physicians when a woman's and/or a newborn's condition indicates the need.
Those underlined bits seem a bit contradictory to me.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#21 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 06:35 PM
 
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*nod*

my midwife has nothing to do with any OB/Gyn or hospital.
She is a Certified Midwife, licensed in NY, but is not practicing in conjunction with any other medical entity in the state.


It sounds like they require them to have a 'written practice agreement'??

but my midwife left all decisions up to me--if I had to transport, which hospital did I want to go to (Neither )...if I wanted a back-up OB (nope!)

She did let me know she could only be there for a birth that was 37-42 weeks (ds was 37+1 )
but there was never a "at which point you'll have to see Dr.X or go to hospital Y"


This is the same as the midwife in Spencer and I believe the midwives in Ithaca....
so I'm not sure how much more separated from the hospital scene you could get?
other than maybe a DEM who is operating underground or an unassisted birth

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#22 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 06:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sustainer
You guys are confusing CPMs with CMs. My midwife is a CPM but she can not legally attend home births. New York State does not recognize the CPM credential.
I'm confused. She's technically certified, but can't attend a homebirth? What requirements has she not met - or is it that she refuses collaboration with a physician?

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#23 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 07:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skellbelle
Those underlined bits seem a bit contradictory to me.
I agree! They've got a pretty funny definition of "independent!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by skellbelle
What requirements has she not met - or is it that she refuses collaboration with a physician?
She has not been granted a license by the state of NY. The state of NY only grants licenses to CNMs or CMs. She is not a CNM or a CM. She is a CPM, Certified Professional Midwife. Being a CPM doesn't mean diddly squat to New York State.

I would not want her to be subject to the terms of New York State's idea of an "independent" Certified Midwifery practice anyway!

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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#24 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 07:53 PM
 
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Here is a page that gives the definitions of the different kinds of midwives:

http://www.mana.org/definitions.html

Note that CNMs (Certified Nurse Midwives) and CMs (Certified Midwives) BOTH receive their certification from the American College of NURSE-Midwives, whereas CPMs (Certified Professional Midwives) receive their certification from the North American Registry of Midwives.

Also note the presence of the phrase "is qualified to provide the midwifery model of care" in the definition of a CPM, as well as the absence of that phrase from the definitions of CNMs and CMs.

Another significant phrase: "The CPM is the only international credential that requires knowledge about and experience in out-of-hospital settings."

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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#25 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 08:06 PM
 
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I just found a great article online!

http://www.metroland.net/back_issues.../features.html

I think I've met practically everyone mentioned in the article personally! It focuses on the Capital District, which is where I live.

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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#26 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 08:23 PM
 
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Here's another site:

http://childbirthconnection.org/article.asp?ck=10163

Quote:
CM education closely mirrors the education of certified nurse-midwives

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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#27 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 08:31 PM
 
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Ooh, I REALLY like this page!

http://www.motherspirit.net/articles...seprovider.htm

Quote:
Certified Nurse-Midwives

MANA definition: Certified Nurse-Midwives (CNMs) are educated in both nursing and midwifery. After attending an educational program accredited by the American College of Nurse Midwives Certification Council (ACC), they must pass the ACC examination and can be licensed in the individual states in which they practice, most often in hospitals and birth centers.[2]

Often called MEDwives these women bridge the gap between doctors and midwives. Most of their training is still based on the medical model of birth. Although they tend to be much more in touch with the mother’s needs and will spend both your labor and delivery with you; they still often rely on interventions and preconceived ideas about birth.

This type of midwife rarely attends home births in the United States; they are more likely to practice in hospitals or birth centers.

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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#28 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 08:55 PM
 
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#29 of 32 Old 06-15-2006, 09:00 PM
 
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OK I swear this is the last thing I'm going to post (for now anyway )

Another great article

http://www.metroland.net/back_issues.../features.html

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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#30 of 32 Old 06-16-2006, 12:01 AM
 
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hmmm

I suppose we were lucky then (well, I knew that, but not how lucky)

My midwife was (is!) the complete opposite of the medwives I had with ds2.
So was her assistant, who is just finishing her certification.

I never had an interal exam (until I asked her if I was complete, because I was pretty sure I was )
I never had an ultrasound
There was no stress over not having a concrete due date
They never used a doppler
and never worried about not hearing the baby's heartbeat...
Once through the entire pregnancy and labor! The baby was moving--that was enough

And while I joke about the hospitals and OBs...I felt completely comfortable that if my midwife was concerned about anything, she would talk it over with me and we would decide together what to do...and that she would be there with me if we did have to transport.

In short she was, as she told me early on in a prenatal appointment, there only in case something did go wrong.
She is totally hands off and non-intervening, but supportive, during pregnancy and birth.

I can't find the paper work she gave me with her background info on it....
Maybe she did do NARM stuff too?
Or maybe she just didn't let the ACC suck her soul?

I guess what I'm trying to say is a Certified Midwife doesn't have to equal a medwife....
I suppose a CNM doesn't have to equal one either, but......

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