Homebirth is safer than hospital birth! - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 29 Old 11-19-2006, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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are we allowed to defend ourselves against attacks?

I know of a place where I once felt safe talking about my homebirths, but now when I go there, I can see that the tide is shifting to a "Homebirths aren't safe" zone. What should I do? If I mention this place by name, this thread will get shut down, so I won't.

Can I get a list of why Homebirth is safer than birth anywhere else? Then I can post it at this place and people will see it and have to decide who they believe, one site saying it, or a bunch of people who have reserached it and decided to do it. and I can keep bumping it so it stays at the top.

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#2 of 29 Old 11-19-2006, 01:29 PM
 
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i hope someone posts some links for you, b/c i always thought homebirths were proven to be safer, but now i dont know. i have recently seen some studies that say the opposite (mind you, i dont go fishing for these, since im not even pregnant)
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#3 of 29 Old 11-19-2006, 01:35 PM
 
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i hope someone posts some links for you, b/c i always thought homebirths were proven to be safer, but now i dont know. i have recently seen some studies that say the opposite (mind you, i dont go fishing for these, since im not even pregnant)
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#4 of 29 Old 11-19-2006, 01:52 PM
 
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#5 of 29 Old 11-19-2006, 02:03 PM
 
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There is a sticky at the top of this board.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#6 of 29 Old 11-19-2006, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I know there's a sticky, but look left and there's also something saying it's not safe as well.

R~mama to 3

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#7 of 29 Old 11-19-2006, 02:45 PM
 
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How about this

Home Birth Safety


Prospective Study Confirms Safety of Planned Home Birth with Low Rates of Medical Interventions
Johnson, K. C., & Daviss, B. A. (2005). Outcomes of planned home births with certified professional midwives: large prospective study in North America. BMJ, 330(7505), 1416-1422. [Abstract]
Summary:This is the largest prospective study of the outcomes of planned home birth in North America. All certified professional midwives (CPMs) credentialed by the North American Registry of Midwives were required to participate as a condition of recertification. A total of 409 participating midwives provided data on all of their clients who were due in 2000.
The study focused on the 5418 CPM clients intending a home birth at the start of labor. The rate of intrapartum or postpartum transfer was 12.1%. Failure to progress, request for pain relief and maternal exhaustion were the most common reported reasons for intrapartum transfer while maternal hemorrhage and retained placenta were the most common reasons for postpartum transfer. The newborn transfer rate was 0.7%, most commonly for respiratory problems. Urgent transfer occurred in 3.4% of intended home births.
Rates of medical interventions in intended home births, including attempted induction of labor (9.6%), electronic fetal monitoring (9.6%), episiotomy (2.1%), cesarean section (3.7%) and vaginal instrumental delivery (1.6%), were consistently much lower than averages reported in comparable studies of hospital-based births. Intrapartum and newborn mortality occurred at a rate of 1.7 deaths per 1000 low-risk intended home births (breeches, twins and fatal birth defects excluded), a rate consistent with most published studies of low-risk births occurring within or outside of hospitals. No maternal deaths were reported. A random sample of 10% of the mothers were contacted and asked about their satisfaction with their birth experiences. Over 97% were extremely or very satisfied and over 98% said they would use a CPM for a subsequent birth.
Significance for Normal Birth: This is one of the largest prospective studies of the outcomes of home birth. Furthermore, the compulsory nature of CPM participation and the rigorous study methods render this study relatively free of the methodological flaws that have plagued previous studies of home birth. This study confirms that infrequent use of interventions can be associated with excellent perinatal outcomes and provides strong evidence that planned home birth is no more risky than planned hospital birth for low-risk women and their infants.
An analysis of a national survey of childbearing women in the United States found that those women who gave birth at home were far more likely to have achieved all six care practices that support normal birth (Declerq & Corry, 2003). This is because the approach to care is fundamentally different in most out-of-hospital settings, where care practices that support normal birth are the norm except when compelling medical reasons dictate otherwise. Unfortunately, many people believe that the best outcomes will be achieved with aggressive use of medical interventions. This study adds to the large body of evidence refuting that approach.
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#8 of 29 Old 11-19-2006, 02:59 PM
 
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Thanks SO much for this thread...that "ad" was disturbing me!

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#9 of 29 Old 11-19-2006, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by rmzbm View Post
Thanks SO much for this thread...that "ad" was disturbing me!
who me? I don't know what you're talking about.

R~mama to 3

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#10 of 29 Old 11-19-2006, 03:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dnr3301 View Post
who me? I don't know what you're talking about.
Me neither.

That said... X 1,000 more!

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#11 of 29 Old 11-19-2006, 04:38 PM
 
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The Google ad!!! I have one on my screen that says Homebirth: studies show it is not as safe as hospital birth.
Here, in the homebirth forum...keywords are just special, aren't they.
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#12 of 29 Old 11-19-2006, 04:41 PM
 
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Oh, my. I just clicked the link and it's an MD's blog...ugh.
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#13 of 29 Old 11-19-2006, 04:50 PM
 
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i think these are started to divide us in a manner to create doubt, fear etc.

i was checking out a debate site as well where the above mentioned "home birth safety" study was torn up. i am not a scientist so i have no way to defend or analyze these studies to get the answers we are looking for. basically they went on to say the 2 persons, Johnson, K. C., & Daviss, B. A. , are actually husband and wife, that they are actually members of such and such homebirth or midwife association and they were paid by such and such homebirth or midwife association, obvioulsy leading to conflict of interest.

the debate site states that homebirth, according to all the scientific studies, has average 1 to 2 more infant deaths per 1000 than hospital births, and that women should be told this and that the "natural birth movement" is spreading all kinds of lies,

IMO the AAP and AMA, who have a loooooooonnnnnnnnnnggggggg history of not exactly supporting the Midwives at el have spent millions and millions of dollars and have come up with 1-2 more deaths per 1000. while the Midwives et al have not put that type of money into research, i'm sure they would like to, but perhaps lack of funding, etc, it has not been done...yet.

now i can understand that probably both sides needs to justify why they do what they do, especially because it appears that they represent opposite opinions and it will probably include inaccurate or 'not scientifically' proven information. who is advocating for best interest of baby? who is advocating for best interest of mother? who is advocating for best interest of doctor? nurses? CNM? Pharm co.? etc.

i wrote in response that the comments were dis-empowering women, by scarring them (some of the comments are very hostile and belittling) and was told that informing women that there are 1-2 more deaths/1000 at homebirths was actually empowering them. well it certainly did'nt empower me to know that. what empowered me was time i spent learning what my birth choices were, what hospital procedures were, what the birth process entails, etc. in the end i chose a home water birth and used hypnobirthing. part of what we need to know to make our choices is that statistically women will die in childbirth and babies will die in childbirth. of course we don't want to die and we certainly don't want our babies to die but that is part of it. while modern medicine has provided us with extraordinary advances, the most prolific advances are sanitation, education and nutrition. While we have learned to micro-manage birth in the hospital to the extent that we reduced deaths in infants and mothers, there has been many trade offs: mother's have given over their power to doctors, we are not properly informed of our choices, the birth experience for both mother and baby is sometimes horrific and certainly more times than not ideal, we are reaching up to 30% rates of cutting open healthy women and women have been abused for far too long. an infants experience with in the average hospital procedures, IMO can only be traumatic. women are seeking natural birth choices, because they are more scarred of hospitals and doctors. they want to reclaim their birth choices and rights.

i'm not going to waste my time going back and forth with those people. I will stick with persons who i genuinely believe want the best interest of my baby and me. it fits with what has and did come naturally for me, and i'm not afraid. i would regret more making a choice out of fear and ignorance, than making a choice that i felt was in the best interest for me and my family.

i would love to read some research that shows that homebirths are safer, but just because we don't have "scientific proof" something exists, that doesn't mean it doesn't. we still know so little. we are equipped with other gifts that ensure our survival, which are instinct and common sense.

i think they are just player hating.
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#14 of 29 Old 11-19-2006, 05:08 PM
 
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how is someone coming here for the first time going to differentiate the 2 (the stickie and the ad).

more importantly, what do you think she is going to see? the sticky or the ad?
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#15 of 29 Old 11-19-2006, 05:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by aisraeltax View Post
how is someone coming here for the first time going to differentiate the 2 (the stickie and the ad).

more importantly, what do you think she is going to see? the sticky or the ad?

They aren't going to be able to differentiate: How horribly sad it has come to this
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#16 of 29 Old 11-19-2006, 06:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dnr3301 View Post
I know there's a sticky, but look left and there's also something saying it's not safe as well.
I've been to that site and the MD that runs it is not getting a lot of "reformed" homebirthers. She gives her take on homebirth studies and other things and is challenged by posters. Even people who have been here for awhile don't notice the sticky, but they still ask questions and read the board. Anyone who has the internet can do a search and find oodles of sites that are counter to what MDC promotes. Though it would nice not to have those ads, there are many hbrs floating around MDC to spread the hb word. Also, Citizens for Midwifery has a good page on evaluating homebirth studies.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#17 of 29 Old 11-19-2006, 06:36 PM
 
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http://www.gentlebirth.org/format/myths.html

http://www.gentlebirth.org/ronnie/ho....html#Hospital

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art..._hospital.html

http://www.compleatmother.com/homebirth/hb_safety.htm

http://www.homebirth.org.uk/homebirth6.htm

Becky, sahm to angel.gif25/04/2000 Chloe 12/04/2002 Cameron 19/02/2004 Caitlin 28/06/2005 angel.gif24/07/2006 and Caden 14/03/2008

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#18 of 29 Old 11-19-2006, 09:28 PM
 
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What really gets to me about the MD, and all the other MDs like her, is how can they defend that worldwide the US is #28 in infant mortality, and #31 in maternal mortality, and we spend by far the most money on birth than any other developed nation, have more interventions in birth, etc.

If hospitals are so safe, and our nation has more hospital births than any other, why are our mortality rates for moms and babies so abysmal?

ARGH.

LOVED my home waterbirth, btw, and it was my second VBAC, too. And I birthed a ten pound, eight ounce baby boy with no interventions other than a knowledgable midwife who had me get up on my hands and knees to help his shoulders as while they weren't stuck, they were a *very* tight squeeze. I can't even imagine what an OB might have done to me or my son at a hospital. One or both of us might not even be here... makes me shudder just to think about it.
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#19 of 29 Old 11-20-2006, 09:34 AM
 
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Also loved my home water birth.

On an unrelated note, one of the ads was for my MW!

http://www.globalmidwifery.org/

I read the posts about the ads and checked the ones on my screen and saw it. I didn't get an MDs site.
Sorry to change the subject, just had to comment about that

Michelle, vegan mama to my two sweeties, L, 4/21/04 and C, 10/29/06 married to my Bryce for 20 years.

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#20 of 29 Old 11-20-2006, 10:43 AM
 
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Also loved my home water birth.

On an unrelated note, one of the ads was for my MW!

http://www.globalmidwifery.org/

I read the posts about the ads and checked the ones on my screen and saw it. I didn't get an MDs site.
Sorry to change the subject, just had to comment about that
The ads are not always the same.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#21 of 29 Old 11-20-2006, 12:52 PM
 
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HOMEBIRTH IS SAFER THAN HOSPITAL BIRTH! Geez, why do I feel like I need to shout that out in the homebirthing forum, no less. The only time a hospital is the safer choice is if the mom are baby are TRULY high risk and need medical intervention. Hospitals and doctors save lives in emergencies but a healthy laboring woman does not belong in a hospital. I do believe every woman has the RIGHT to birth where she wants, but I still don't believe hospitals are safe choices for healthy laboring women.

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#22 of 29 Old 11-20-2006, 12:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by heidi_m View Post
What really gets to me about the MD, and all the other MDs like her, is how can they defend that worldwide the US is #28 in infant mortality, and #31 in maternal mortality, and we spend by far the most money on birth than any other developed nation, have more interventions in birth, etc.

If hospitals are so safe, and our nation has more hospital births than any other, why are our mortality rates for moms and babies so abysmal?

ARGH.
She blames the large african-american and latino communities because she says that they are more prone to have preemies an deaths so the results don't mean a thing...

 
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#23 of 29 Old 11-20-2006, 01:02 PM
 
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http://cfmidwifery.org/resources/item.aspx?id=84

http://www.asac.ab.ca/resResearch.html

Here are a couple more resources (including some posted in medical journals)
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#24 of 29 Old 11-20-2006, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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let me clarify: I had my babies both at home. I know it's safe, safer than hospital. I am finding a space where that has, in the past, been a given, that lately shows some signs of being sorta confused. Like, in a "homebirth is safe" zone, all of a sudden there are "home birth is dangerous" slogans all over it. And that worries me. I want to defend myself and the other homebirthing parents and people looking for homebirthing information against these statements. I know the statements are false.

And I think some people understand my question/post better than others, but that's ok too.

R~mama to 3

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#25 of 29 Old 11-20-2006, 04:15 PM
 
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Rebecca, I was ranting WITH you. I feel the same way you do.

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#26 of 29 Old 11-20-2006, 07:42 PM
 
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What studies show hospital birth to be safer than homebirth? I know of one, and it's a purely statistical study the methodology of which was hugely flawed.

Anyway, regardless of whether this or that study is valid, statistics are only meaningful to the individual so far as they are representative of the individual's situation. I don't eschew hospital birth because the studies I've seen show that for matched populations homebirth with a midwife is as safe in terms of survival rates and far safer in terms of avoiding complications. I'm far more interested in using my brain to look critically at what each model of care does to the body, psyche, and to the birth and bonding process, and to analyze what the risks are in my individual situation, and make my choices based on that.
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#27 of 29 Old 11-20-2006, 07:54 PM
 
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How about this one?

http://www.seattlemidwifery.org/news_BMJarticle.pdf

Hope it applies.
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#28 of 29 Old 11-22-2006, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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thanks for all your help. it seems as though my biggest complaint at this place has been remedied. I am no longer seeing the sentiment that homebirth is more dangerous than hospital birth. I'll be sure to let you know if I see it again.

R~mama to 3

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#29 of 29 Old 11-23-2006, 05:31 AM
 
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I am pretty sure that those who say studies show that homebirth has 1-2 more deaths per thousand are quoting flawed studies that do not differentiate between planned homebirths and unplanned ones. Every study I have read that differentiated between planned and unplanned showed that homebirth was as safe or safer than hospital birth.

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