" I trust my OB/MW with my life" - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 48 Old 11-26-2006, 07:19 PM
 
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HOWEVER, I noted that both of these pp had interventions and check ups....what would have happened if you didn't do what the OB had suggested. What would have happened if your instincts were contrary to their "recommendations"?
My OB suggested an induction due to PIH. I told her I didn't feel ready and asked what options we had. She prescribed Procardia and we agreed that I would go on bedrest to see if the BP came down, which I did for three days. The BP continued to climb, and we decided to go ahead with the induction.

I believe I ended up with a cascade of interventions because of my medical condition (PIH), not because my OB pushed them on me. And I think that's also why I feel comfortable with the way things turned out. I could curse the world that I developed PIH, but really, I just feel fortunate that it didn't happen earlier in my pregnancy (I delivered at 38w3d) and I'm glad that medical interventions were available to allow my baby to be delivered safely at that time. I'm also glad, that despite all the interventions, I received great care that helped to mitigate the possible damage from those interventions. Aside from my doctor, I had great support from the nurses in my recovery, and a lot of support with breastfeeding to help us get off to a good start in spite of the challenges presented from the c-section.

...the cuties in my avatar are my wonderful, c-section born, fully vaccinated sweethearts...
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#32 of 48 Old 11-27-2006, 12:08 AM
 
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I find it extremely interesting that the two defending their OBs' and the interventions that were prescribed.

I believe I ended up with a cascade of interventions because of my medical condition (PIH), not because my OB pushed them on me.

For my birth, my water broke naturally, but I wasn't really contracting. I have a heart condition, so I was eventually put on pitocin followed 12 hours later by an epidural, and 5 hours later a wonderful vaginal birth.

You see, I too, had a pregnancy complicated by cardiac issues. As a matter of fact, severe cardiac issues so much so that I went into cardiac arrest at 32 weeks.

HOWEVER, I did not use that as an excuse for the OB to take over the care in my pregnancy. Just like the pp, the OB insisted on many interventions. But unlike the pp, I did not follow the OBs' advice and chose to educate myself on the risks of the interventions that were being advocated. For example, the OB insisted that he would not allow me to go past 38 weeks and as a result, would induce me.

But due to my cardiac issues, I was very careful and found out that the pictocin actually EXACERBATES heart conditions by causing fast and irregular heartbeats, difficulty breathing, faintness and should NOT be used in women who are hypertensive. This comes from the drug monograph, something that a OB should discuss with all women, ESPECIALLY women with cardiac issues/PIH. It would be interesting to ponder if the pp OBs had this discussion with their patients.

Just an interesting FYI, as a result, of my cardiac condition I insisted on a referral to a cardiologist who was appalled that an OB would manage a condition "that he has no business managing, just like I (the cardiologist) have no business managing a birth!!!"

I birthed our dd#2, unassisted at home, with none of the complications that the OB used to fearmonger. I educated myself and found that the interventions recommended by the OB were more dangerous to my and babys' health than going without.

Through proper diet, postural management during labour and relaxation, I managed a very serious cardiac condition to birth naturally and did not allow it to be used as an excuse by an OB to hijack my care!!!

Just an interesting footnote, the OB warned me that the eventuality of the "cascade of interventions" would be a C/S. So, how likely do you think it would have happened if I would have went with him than myself?
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#33 of 48 Old 11-27-2006, 12:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes. I was induced with ds for H BP.
My doctor never even knmew i was a vegetarian. No one told me to make sure to get my protein or even how much. I did not know
My mw and I went over my eating habits very carefully. I am very thankful for that because it helped to keep my bloodpressure issues acceptable. I just have high blood pressure. I always have. I am 5'5 and weigh about 115 non pg. My heartrate is higher than most peoples.

this came up because I heard a woman say that her doctor whom she trusted with her life was inducing her with CYTOTECH- as he did with her last pg. When she was questioned and given more information of the drawbacks of using cytotech- she responded by saying- Oh My doctor would never do anything to hurt me. He knows best.

What a crock. ThIS is what I am getting at.
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#34 of 48 Old 11-27-2006, 06:41 AM
 
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hi all,

i also find it quite scary how women in general trust their (or even just random) docs or midwives when it comes to birth.

I am a homebirth midwife in the uk and i would not expect my clients to trust me and only me when it comes to their labour.....i am not them!
I rely on them to trust themselves and that concerns normality and also abnormality.....the hbac woman telling me that something was not right before clinical signs were detectable springs to mind.

however i need to be able to trust 'my women' to know we can work together and i need her to trust me to some degree when she needs to or the situation requires it....that situation may be an emergency or me answering a question that was asked explicitly.

my collague was my midwife during my son's home waterbirth and i can honestly state that i would trust her with my and my babies life....IF THE SITUATION REQUIRED IT. I am talking major emergency here or situations when i am asking for help.

I know my midwife would never intervene if not absolutely neccessary with CONSENT.....in our practice women call the shots not us.....
the twin homebirth after rupture of membranes for 3 weeks with known GBS issues springs to mind.....all discussed with woman and SHE decided that waiting is appropriate for HER. babies born breech and cephalic, all well and dandy!!

women know best......and trusting someone else in appropriate situations is NOT a sign of weakness. you just have to choose your appropriate situations well!!

sorry for rambling!!

in sisterhood
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#35 of 48 Old 11-27-2006, 09:22 AM
 
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[QUOTE=Emilie;6618251]
I trust myself first. I listen to many opinions and then do what I feel is right. I research research research.... but it seems that women in our society are so willing to hand over the reins to their care providers and not take any responsibility for themselves.
QUOTE]

I’m like you, but only now. When I was pg with my first I trusted my OB blindly, but I thought that was the only way. I hadn’t heard any debates on allopathic vs holistic medicine, I hadn’t heard any critiques on doctors or on the dodgy practices of pharmaceutical companies. I had heard alternatives being dismissed as “quackery” and been steeped in the “trust your doctor” mentality.

Now I have “seen the light”, LOL! My change of perspective actually came when I had breastfeeding difficulties and found out how clueless most paediatricians we’re when it came to solving them. Then I started researching everything medically-related in depth, including birth, especially birth, and found out that most routine obstetrics is not supported by the evidence. Of course the internet helps, it makes researching these things so much easier. Thanks to the general public being able to access this information, doctors are getting knocked off their pedestals slowly but surely. The smart ones accept that patients are becoming more informed and accept to have more of a partnership relationship rather than doctor/patient, the really smart ones are actually open to learning something from their clients from time-to-time. There are too few of these. Most of them are very, very much on the defensive.

But even with the research at our finger-tips some women still choose to put blind trust in their OBs, it would be too scary for them to do the research and take responsibility for the outcome. In a way I can understand this because it IS a daunting task. I love research and following debates, but it does take up a lot of my spare time. Other women may want to do something else in their spare time plus it makes them feel more secure feeling they can absolutely put their trust in someone. But then again, I think too few of us fully realise how important our bodies and births are.
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#36 of 48 Old 11-27-2006, 10:45 AM
 
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When I hear this, I smile and say that I am glad they are so confident in their physician/mw/whoever--how lucky to find someone that they believe in so thoroughly. What else can one say? If *I* felt that confident in my physician, anything that anyone else said to me wouldn't change my mind.

FWIW, I *do* trust my physician with my life. Not in a "whatever you say, mam" sort of way. Not in a usurping my own judgement sort of way. I mean that I feel like she would make the best decisions for me that she could, especially in the event that I am unable to direct my own care. I'm not blindly trusting that, if I only do what she says, everything will be alright. I'm not under the impressions that my thoughts, concerns, research, education, or wants are somehow less important than those of my physician. When I say "I trust my physician with my life" I mean that I trust her education, her decision making, and her philosophy. I have used *my* critical thinking skills to find a physician whose own philosophy and education are very much in line with my own.

I dont' think that women who feel like they can trust their physician with their lives are necessarily putting blind faith in their physician; nor are they automatically to be labelled uneducated or ignorant of their choices, untrusting of their own internal voices, or victims of our over-medicalized society.
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#37 of 48 Old 11-27-2006, 10:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Teensy View Post
I guess I am going to go one step futher and disagree that there is anything wrong with trusting a professional - for health care or otherwise. I trust my life to all sorts of people. For example, I trust that the mechanic did repair the brakes on my car correctly. I asked for recommendations and got a mechanic with experience and a good reputation. I didn't research brakes and how to fix them. I trusted the expert to do his job correctly. I trust pilots to fly planes safely, I trust engineers to build bridges that hold, I trust electricians to do home repairs - I don't research engineering or electrical systems.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with chosing a doctor you trust and then relying on the doctor's opinion - based on years of education and experience - to make decisions about your health and that of your children.

Do I think there is anything wrong with asking lots of questions, doing research, or choosing something other than the doctor's recommendation? Absolutely not. Especially since in medicine, there often is no right or wrong but a decision of which risk is more acceptable to you. If option A has X potential risk and Y potential benefit, while option B has W potential risk and Z potential benefit - one smart, educated person might choose option A while another chooses option B (inductions past 42 weeks being a perfect example). I don't think there is anything wrong with "mindlessly" relying on the advice of someone whom you have choosen exactly because you trust them to give you the best advice.

There have been times when I have researched issues before I made medical decisions, but there have also been times when I simply asked, "what would you do if it were you?" and taken a doctor's advice on a course of action. I guess I must be part sheep!
: That's a great post.

I don't think the mama discussing her heart condition used it as an "excuse" to allow her OB to "take over." I think she just reached a different conclusion. It's funny to me how on MDC so many people seem to think everyone MUST reach the same conclusion in similar situations no matter what, and then calls them sheep if they DON'T? Is that anything like rebelling by dressing exactly the same way all the other rebels dress?

We're unique individuals and we're going to do our best with the info we have... for some of us that means being more involved and questioning than others, and that is ok. I love Teensy's point about the auto-mechanic. I doubt that the majority of us change our own brakes. Or want to.

I do wish the whole field of OB medicine were more woman-positive. I don't think that it is at all. Of course I'm a feminist and I wish everything were more woman-positive... including other women, sometimes!

I do think that the more of us who are asking questions and not worshipping at the altar of every doctor who thinks he is god, is a good thing, and hopefully doctors will evolve.
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#38 of 48 Old 11-27-2006, 10:56 AM
 
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I would also like to point out that blind mistrust is not a healthy way of conducting oneself, either.

Yes, and those of us who chose medical intervention are automatically giving up our rights, are automatically ignorant of what is happening, and if only we had refused it, listened to our internal voice (and apparently only if that internal voice was saying that we should refuse our doctor's advice), only then did we make an intelligent decision? Interesting argument.
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#39 of 48 Old 11-27-2006, 10:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by prettypixels;6629237 [B
It's funny to me how on MDC so many people seem to think everyone MUST reach the same conclusion in similar situations no matter what, and then calls them sheep if they DON'T? [/B] [/B]Is that anything like rebelling by dressing exactly the same way all the other rebels dress?

We're unique individuals and we're going to do our best with the info we have...

I do wish the whole field of OB medicine were more woman-positive. I don't think that it is at all. Of course I'm a feminist and I wish everything were more woman-positive... including other women, sometimes!

I do think that the more of us who are asking questions and not worshipping at the altar of every doctor who thinks he is god, is a good thing, and hopefully doctors will evolve.

Hmm, but can I worship at your altar? You seem to say what I wanted to say, but you say it more nicely.
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#40 of 48 Old 11-27-2006, 11:15 AM
 
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I have a friend who was dx'd with PIH but it wasn't really serious (she later learned) and she had a terrible time with interventions and failed induction resulting in c-section.

Wondering if mamas here who were dx'd with PIH are sure it was serious enough to warrant the interventions.
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#41 of 48 Old 11-27-2006, 11:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by prettypixels View Post
I don't think the mama discussing her heart condition used it as an "excuse" to allow her OB to "take over." I think she just reached a different conclusion. It's funny to me how on MDC so many people seem to think everyone MUST reach the same conclusion in similar situations no matter what, and then calls them sheep if they DON'T? Is that anything like rebelling by dressing exactly the same way all the other rebels dress?



Thinking that all women must have a homebirth/UC is no better than thinking all women should have a hospital birth. Nuff said.
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#42 of 48 Old 11-27-2006, 11:31 AM
 
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There are times when one must trust a professional with one's life. I honestly feel that I will be trusting my MW with my life and that of my baby, if only for a brief time. I know that my mind operates differently when I'm in labor and I will be relying heavily on my MW's advice and possibly even instructions if an emergency arises. I trust her to recognize that emergency and to give me advice that will give both me and my baby the best possible chance for a positive outcome. Does that mean that I mindlessly do whatever she tells me all the time? Of course not. I do give her opinions weight when considering my options, but I make the decisions myself. But when I'm not in a position to make educated decisions myself, I will most certainly put my trust in her.

I do think it's nuts to trust someone simply because he or she has an M.D., though. Most of the doctors I know are no smarter than I. A good doctor is an invaluable resource if you can find one, but not all doctors are good at their jobs, anymore than all plumbers, lawyers, or secretaries are.

: I agree, well said. There was a time where I would have put (and did) all of my trust into a medical professional. I did as I was told, I didn't question decisions, offer suggestions or "think for myself".. they were.. afterall.. the Doctor..

I would like to think that as I have matured and become more comfortable with myself.. that I have changed. I no longer blindly trust someone because they have an MD after their name.. I question, I suggest, I research.. and I feel that I am more an informed consumer in their care. I listen to their suggestions, diagnosis etc.. and then weigh options.. When I can't weigh options.. I hope that i have chosen care providers that will make the best choices for my care that they can..
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#43 of 48 Old 11-27-2006, 11:35 AM
 
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I take offense to the idea that this level of trust is "mindless." My OB happens to be a dear friend and one of the best doctors I have ever encountered. She is highly experienced and thoughtful. She never hesitates to discuss things with me in detail, and I feel completely respected and empowered. I felt so fortunate to receive this level of care.
So here's the question, is there ever a point in a medical relationship where it's okay to say "fine, whatever you think is best, I don't need you to discuss this with me"?
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#44 of 48 Old 11-27-2006, 12:10 PM
 
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I know I put my (female) OB on a pedestal when I was pg with #1- I really went beyond trust and with the exception of writing a birth plan I just handed over my pregnancy/birth to the point that I didn't even second-guess that she was over-reacting about PIH. I paid the price for that by giving up the birth of my dreams (ie. a birth without unnecessary interventions) for a hard birth with cascade of interventions and a baby who wasn't really ready to be born.

I put a lot of trust in my midwife and I would trust her to guide me in the event of an emergency but she knows I like to read about pregnancy/birth and have aspirations of pursueing midwifery someday down the road. I guess I'd say that we have a partnership... my own relationship with my body and her experience and knowledge.
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#45 of 48 Old 11-27-2006, 02:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by prettypixels
I don't think the mama discussing her heart condition used it as an "excuse" to allow her OB to "take over." I think she just reached a different conclusion. It's funny to me how on MDC so many people seem to think everyone MUST reach the same conclusion in similar situations no matter what, and then calls them sheep if they DON'T? Is that anything like rebelling by dressing exactly the same way all the other rebels dress?


Thinking that all women must have a homebirth/UC is no better than thinking all women should have a hospital birth. Nuff said.


NOWHERE in my post did I call anyone a sheep nor do I think that all women should have a homebirth/UC.

My point was that in even having a serious condition, you can still be an informed consumer and it does not preclude advocating for your own best outcome. Just like Emilie with her high BP or tropicalpunkins' friend, we still have educate ourselves. It SEEMS to me that the more serious a condition, the more we give ourselves and our "conditions" over to the medical establishment.

As for having a homebirth/UC, not all women are comfortable with it and if you aren't comfortable birthing outside of medical supervision, than a hb/UC is not the right option. NUFF SAID!

BTW, it is interesting to note that we are having this discussion on a HOMEBIRTH forum. We've had this discussion in so many different forms by now, but the question begs to be asked again...why are hbirthers having to defend their philosophies on some level?

I wouldn't go into a sports bar in Detroit and try to convince the patrons that the St. Louis Cardinals are the best team in the country...
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#46 of 48 Old 11-28-2006, 12:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Lets all just get along.

I just wish women everywhere would start listening to themselves.
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#47 of 48 Old 02-02-2007, 01:09 AM
 
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Sorry to revive an old thread... just had to say something.

Yes, I trust the pilot of the plane without researching how to fly. Why? If the plane goes down, he dies too! He has a personal stake in how things turn out. However, I would never go to a surgeon without extensive research, interviews, etc. Because as long as he follows protocol, my life and health are not his problem.

As far as a mechanic, I don't fully trust him, but I believe that if he totally destroyed something in the car I would see signs of it before it became completely dangerous to drive the vehicle. That's not implicit trust, it's figuring that it's worth it in this case for me to take the risk. In birth, I am NOT willing to take that risk, thank you. In addition, I am NOT a car. I am a unique human being that doesn't necessarily fit all of the specs in the manual. Makes the situation a little different.

As the old joke goes, a guy goes to a doctor and complains about pain in his leg. "I wouldn't worry about it," the doctor says. "Well," says the guy, "if it were YOUR leg, I wouldn't worry about it either!"

Loads of blessings, and learning on the job.
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#48 of 48 Old 02-02-2007, 01:47 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Exactly.
I wonder how mw's feel about this topic?
I live in a mw illegal state. I took responsiblity for myself throughout my labor and I knew what happened- was my responsiblity. That is how I wanted it.
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