UPDATE Rant - I'm so glad I didn't have to deal with this... - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
 
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An acquaintance of ours is due at the end of April and has had a very normal pregnancy so far. The doctor has told her that her baby is "7 lbs. 3 oz." as of now, and that that means that it will be too big by the due date. The doctor said her cervix is "closed up tight" so she will most likely go full term, which puts her "at high risk for shoulder distocia and an 80% chance of c-section." Doctor recommends they induce at the end of March. The mom doesn't want a c-section, so she's going to go ahead and induce.

Need I even point out what's wrong in this situation? Argh...
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#2 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 11:17 AM
 
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That is all too common. Actually I think that is the norm now. I don't know of anyone "mainstream" anymore that goes into labor naturally. It's sad and frustrating and just plain wrong. There was actually a girl at my LLL meeting last month that was getting induced the next morning because she was 3 days overdue. I asked if there was a medical reason and her doctor told her it was illegal to go past 3 days overdue and she had to induce :
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#3 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 11:32 AM
 
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My SIL was induced at 5 days overdue. She'd had a great pregnancy, no problems. Then, during labor, she had a uterine rupture and was in ICU for 2 days away from baby, who was in special care nursery. Thankfully, they saved her uterus, but will she be able to have more kids? I don't know.

The good news: although her baby got formula in the hospital (mixed with colostrum that mom pumped), my SIL still breastfed!

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#4 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
 
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That's another thing (and this probably belongs on the breastfeeding forum), but I've heard from three women now that a nurse popped her head in the hospital room, said the baby had lost a few ounces and is it ok if I give baby a little formula? Don't babies typically lose a few ounces after birth? And how about helping mom nurse baby more instead of off-handedly mentioning formula?
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#5 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
 
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"The mom doesn't want a c-section, so she's going to go ahead and induce."

This is the part I'm upset about the most - so your cervix is closed up tight, you're a month away from your due date with your first baby and you're going to induce because you don't want a C-section? We'll see how that goes.
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#6 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 11:55 AM
 
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I would let her know the risk of c-section is much higher with each intervention.

I would also ask her what vacation her doc is planning at the beginning of April.

Mention to her that I had a 8 day post date 11 pound baby at home. No tearing and no shoulder dystocia. I pushed 3 times for about 12 minutes.

My best friend also had an 11 pound baby at home with no shoulder dystocia.

My first baby was 9 pounds and also 8 days post date - again no shoulder dystocia.
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#7 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 12:01 PM
 
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Actually I think that is the I asked if there was a medical reason and her doctor told her it was illegal to go past 3 days overdue and she had to induce :
Please tell me her doc did not use the word "illegal." Unbelievable! Felony or misdemeanor?

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#8 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 12:06 PM
 
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I would also ask her what vacation her doc is planning at the beginning of April.
That was my exact thought.

Please let your friend know that lying to a patient about her rights is the only thing illegal about this situation.

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#9 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I would let her know the risk of c-section is much higher with each intervention.
I know this to be true and it intuitively makes sense (well maybe it doesn't since repeatedly subjecting women to unnecessary interventions and women blindly accepting them without researching has become the norm it seems...but I digress). Are there any numbers or studies out there I can wield?
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#10 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 12:38 PM
 
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Geesh, and here I was being scared about a homebirth. Everyone on here has provided me with such great resources that I have learned that for a low-risk pregnancy, the hospital and Ob-Gyns can be the "scary" part.

Please let her know that for the health of her baby and herself that she should explore her other options...including a different provider!

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#11 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 03:47 PM
 
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Henci Goer's The Thinking Woman's Guide... is an excellent source of research and stats. Run, run to the bookstore.

There is absolutely no way, NO WAY for the dr. to know how much her baby weighs. My mws like to guess (and one was 1 oz. off) but it was just for fun! They always say "We'll just wait and see!" Ultrasounds are also unreliable. The dr. is full of himself.

I'd also point out that if she happens to gestate babies longer or her dates are a little off, she's running the risk that the lungs will not be fully developed at birth which would lead to the NICU, baby being isolated, problems w/breastfeeding, extended stay in the hospital.

This is a dangerous, dangerous practice that some drs. talk their patients into. They are literally inducing premature babies imo. THAT is dangerous! I can't believe he is insinuating that carrying a baby to TERM is dangerous! And, frankly, I can't believe a mother would blindly accept such irresponsible behavior. The information is out there and it's up to us to access it.
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#12 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I read The Thinking Women's Guide when I was deciding on my homebirth (something I'm happier and happier I chose every time I hear one of these stories!) - thanks for reminding me about the stats in there.

I 100% agree with you on the impossibility of determining the size of the baby from ultrasound (I've heard it's accurate plus or minus two pounds - as if that's helpful when something only weighs like 6-10 anyway) and on the potential dangerousness of taking the baby out too early. That's why these stories appall me - both for the doctor actually saying it with a straight face and mom just taking it without researching. Unfortunately, these stories are what I hear with most of my hospital-birthing friends
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#13 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 05:37 PM
 
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That is all too common. Actually I think that is the norm now. I don't know of anyone "mainstream" anymore that goes into labor naturally. It's sad and frustrating and just plain wrong. :
I only know ONE person in real life who has had a baby vaginally (forget "naturally") since 2008. and I have met a LOT of new moms. Im at LLL every month, and tons of friends have recently had babies.

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#14 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 05:55 PM
 
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That is crazy.

My "9 pound" baby turned out to be 7 lb. 4 oz., and on my edd my cervix was "high and tight" yet my ctx started that night. (DD was born 2 days later).

Luckily I had a MW so they were not even thinking induction nor would have I allowed it.

There is just no way to tell about these things. It's so sad that people don't trust a woman's body to do the right thing.

And WOW. They want to induce a whole month early? That could be really dangerous for the baby. I would get a second opinion and definitely read henci goer's book.
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#15 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 06:01 PM
 
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"The mom doesn't want a c-section, so she's going to go ahead and induce."

This is the part I'm upset about the most - so your cervix is closed up tight, you're a month away from your due date with your first baby and you're going to induce because you don't want a C-section? We'll see how that goes.
Exactly!...sadly...

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#16 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 06:08 PM
 
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Your post makes me VERY upset. I was in a similar situation. I had a C-section from a very traumatic, pit-induced labour. I may never know what it's like to go into labour naturally.

I really, really hope that she reconsiders.
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#17 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 08:21 PM
 
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my husband's aunt was induced both times...i wasn't around the first time she was induced, but the second time she induced the doctor had told her the baby was going to be big, so it would be better to induce so she didn't have a baby that was too big to give birth to. i guessed the baby would be around 7 lbs, like her first had been. guess who was right? the baby was only a couple ounces over 7 lbs.

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#18 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 08:28 PM
 
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Blargh. Just...blargh....
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My OB with DS2 told me that the baby was measuring at 7lbs a good month before I was due. Surprise, DS was born a month later at 7lbs. 2 oz., the OB was so far off on his estimation.

I hope everything turns out okay for your friend.

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#20 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 08:49 PM
 
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I have had 4 children, two at 42 weeks, two at 39. As of yet I have avoided pitocin inductions and have had all 4 vaginally, but never truly gone into labor on my own. My third had what the OB called shoulder dystocia (but based on my descriptions my MWs now think it was a different type of dystocia). Even my OBs acknowledged that it wasn't neccessarily her size, but her position.
If her doc really wants to "help things along" when they get closer maybe she can talk to him/her about other, less invasive ways of bringing on labor? For me the 2 that have worked are sweeping/stripping the membranes (but for that you I think you really do need to be at least a little dialated at the time) and castor oil (disgusting but a heck of a lot better than pit!)
Her doc probably wouldn't be ok w/ the castor oil (I chose not to share that with my OBs) but if she wants to avoid a medical induction it might be something to try.
Good luck to her, so glad I'm having a HB this time so I don't have to worry about it.

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#21 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 11:14 PM
 
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I made the mistake of watching that new Discovery show "Deliver Me" the other day (marginally better than "A Baby Story", but still fully the typical mainstream stuff you'd expect). A mother on there was induced with Pitocin . . . TWO DAYS after her due date. I just love how there's no further explanation of this, let alone a discussion of it. Just "She's 'overdue' therefore we are inducing, the end." No medical reasons whatsoever. And most people who watch these shows are just going to file that away in their own understanding of how all this works, so when they're in the same position, of course they're just gonna freakin' swallow it. So many people think they're "educating themselves" by watching all these shows.

What really galled me was that when they examined her prior to this, her cervix was 80% effaced and she was one centimeter dilated. HELLO? Doesn't that mean she is totally on the way to going into labor spontaneously? Like, possibly within a day or two??? I. just. don't. understand.

The woman was also 'determined to have a natural birth'. So even after Pitocin, and later, rupturing her amniotic sac, she tried to resist an epidural - even using a doula. I don't know where to begin with that! Dude, you're already not having a NATURAL birth - I frankly think it's so counterproductive to consent to these other interventions and then try t resist an epidural, as if that's ALL natural childbirth is about. No wonder some people dismiss the desire for natural birth as martyrdom. If she had educated herself even a little bit about the interventions LEADING TO the need for an epidural, she could have had a totally different outcome.

OP, your friend may have already made up her mind, but since she does say that she doesn't want a c-section, I'd recommend at least presenting her with the research on how these interventions may very well lead her directly into one anyway. And if you feel like going the extra mile, I'd also look into the this has-to-be-BS claim about it being "illegal" to go over due by 3 days & see if it's based on anything at all in your state. What a CROCK. As if a due date isn't an estimate based on an estimate ANYWAY.

Can you tell this topic really irks me?
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#22 of 60 Old 03-18-2008, 11:54 PM
 
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The woman was also 'determined to have a natural birth'. So even after Pitocin, and later, rupturing her amniotic sac, she tried to resist an epidural - even using a doula. I don't know where to begin with that! Dude, you're already not having a NATURAL birth - I frankly think it's so counterproductive to consent to these other interventions and then try t resist an epidural, as if that's ALL natural childbirth is about. No wonder some people dismiss the desire for natural birth as martyrdom. If she had educated herself even a little bit about the interventions LEADING TO the need for an epidural, she could have had a totally different outcome.
while i agree with you for the most part, i think it is commendable if the woman is trying to avoid drugs for pain even with a pitocin induced/augmented labor (especially since almost everyone says that pitocin labor is much more painful that a truly natural labor.) i have known a couple of women who were induced (for stupid reasons, yes) but they didn't have an epidural or other pain medication, and i definitely think there are benefits to be had by avoiding pain medication if you can handle the labor without it.

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#23 of 60 Old 03-19-2008, 12:06 AM
 
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^^ Good point there. I actually do agree when you put it so well - I think was just so caught up in the frustration of watching what was presented to be a pointless induction that I got hung up on the paradoxical part. If there's a genuine medical reason to induce (or even if there's not), I can still see why avoiding pain meds is a commendable goal.

Thanks for taking my rantiness down to earth a bit.
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completely understandable!!!

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#25 of 60 Old 03-19-2008, 12:43 AM
 
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Unbelievable.
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#26 of 60 Old 03-19-2008, 01:58 AM
 
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What I really want to say won't make it past the censors, so let me just say BLARGH!!!! I shouldn't still find it so shocking that doctors are willing to put their own convenience ahead of their patient's health, but somehow, I do!

I pray that your friend either does not get induced, or that she safely delivers a healthy baby if she does. I am quite frankly shocked that they want to force delivery of a baby that is not even term. Disgusting.
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#27 of 60 Old 03-19-2008, 02:08 AM
 
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I think that's standard care nowadays. Most women are happy to be done and many are glad to get out of labor pain. Its misinformed and very sad.

Mom of a 7 yr old, 4 yr old, and 1 yr old. Wow. How did that happen?
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#28 of 60 Old 03-19-2008, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I think that's standard care nowadays. Most women are happy to be done and many are glad to get out of labor pain. Its misinformed and very sad.
I totally agree. I have a lot of friends having babies recently and every single one of them (at least all who go to OBs) have been threatened with induction for various reasons. All of them were told that the doctor would not let the pregnancy go past 41 weeks. Most of them have been told their baby will be too big based on ultrasound (and for some reason they all think 9 lbs is big - yeah, big side of normal, but not big). Three of them were told to schedule c-sections because of what seem like totally unrelated health issues. As I said in an earlier post, three women have mentioned that nurses encouraged them to give formula instead of breastfeeding because their 1-day-old babies had lost a few ounces.

I mean seriously. It's really scary. And I am repeatedly shocked that these seemingly intelligent women buy this without researching any of it. And maybe in the end, you research and ask questions and you don't reach the same conclusions I did, but at least you've looked into it. A lot of these women just do whatever they're told without considering options.

Argh. Thanks for listening and ranting with me. I just can't get over this kind of thing. Every time I hear these "baby is going to be too big so we're inducing" or "I'm 3 days past my due date so we're inducing" stories I get really upset.

And for the record, I know that sometimes inductions and c-sections are absolutely necessary. And I'm so glad that we have this medical technology to save babies and moms who need it. And I know it's scary to make a non-mainstream choice and that a lot of moms don't even know there are other options out there because we're just not told. So maybe I'm not ranting against moms who don't think about all this, but at our birthing culture in general. Either way, it's very upsetting.
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#29 of 60 Old 03-19-2008, 10:27 AM
 
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does she know the risk of inducing and the path it can take
he should at least let her go to term i have lots of friends that went with ob/gyn and they always try to induce before or at term. even ob/gyn agree that 2 weeks past due date is ok so I dont know where they got the 3 day. Thank god for midwives who let women birth naturally or would all think our bodies couldnt handle birthing our own babies
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if she wants to birth naturally then she shoudl definatley tell doctor no he is practicing out of fear adn that is never a good sign

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#30 of 60 Old 03-19-2008, 12:48 PM
 
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I know this to be true and it intuitively makes sense (well maybe it doesn't since repeatedly subjecting women to unnecessary interventions and women blindly accepting them without researching has become the norm it seems...but I digress). Are there any numbers or studies out there I can wield?
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Henci Goer's The Thinking Woman's Guide... is an excellent source of research and stats. Run, run to the bookstore.
This is a great source - but just about any birth book worth it's salt will have this information. I'm a doula - I've attended about 50 births - and of the women who've gone through medical induction about 100% of them face further interventions. Why? Because "you have to be on the monitor to be on pit/ you have to be on your bed if you're on the monitor/you have to be on your back in bed/you cannot be in the shower or bath if you're in bed" so, while I do my best to get them up on all 4's or on the birth ball - there is always a nurse coming in saying 'it would be really great if you would just stay in bed' - so what does that lead to? EPIDURAL...so of course you're then flat on your back in bed...then about 75% of those women feel nothing when they are complete (that's if they dialate past getting the epidural) and the doc is happy to wheel them off to a c-section. It's a domino effect that I'm sure every birth professional has seen over and over.


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I only know ONE person in real life who has had a baby vaginally (forget "naturally") since 2008. and I have met a LOT of new moms. Im at LLL every month, and tons of friends have recently had babies.
That makes me literally sick.
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