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#1 of 33 Old 03-23-2002, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We had planned a homebirth with a midwife and tried for 55 hours or so. During pregnancy I thought I had no need to learn about cesarean prevention or anything like that so i didn't. Big mistake! Anyways, at home, during labor, no one knew, not even me that i was not urinating. Just my waters were leaking out. I kept going back to the toilet all the time but didn't realize it until way after the "birth". So my bladder was filling up pretty quick and was slowing labor and was close to bursting by the time we finally transported to the hospital. Good ole Doc said i was too small to have a baby vaginally anyway. He did an ultrasound and found my HUGE bladder and quickly drained it. Has anyone ever heard of this happening before and why a midwife wouln't catch that? Immediatly after it was drained I had huge contractions but by that time i was on antibiotics because of the leaking water and length of labor, meconium had been coming out, and doctor was scared and trying to freak us out and kept telling us we needed an emergency cesarean now! I was too exhausted to protest any longer. So she was pulled out and perfectly healthy! I really need/want a successful homebirth! If anyone has any suggestions....
I have read Silent Knife and I am very confident for the next time, just would like more info on the blocked bladder.
Thanks for listening.

Heidi
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#2 of 33 Old 03-23-2002, 07:07 PM
 
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I am so sorry your birth was not what you had planned.
Congrats on your healthy bebe! This is a good post, and I am very interested in what everyone has to say, because I too am planning a homebirth. I never heard of the full bladder thing.I will look around online and see what I can find.

Erin, 33, salty southern mama, sitting by the sea with my DH35, DD10, DS4, &DD2!
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#3 of 33 Old 03-23-2002, 08:32 PM
 
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Keeping the bladder empty is extraordinarily important - a full bladder may initially keep the baby's head from entering the pelvic brim and later on can impede the descent of the head. The bladder "neck" can also be sort of caught between the baby's head and the pubic bone, causing bruising and possibly a fistula. After the birth if the bladder is full and distended it can interfere with the uterus contracting down and control blood loss.
Sorry to read about your experience! An empty bladder and monitoring the amount of urine vs amniotic fluid is detrimental and preventative during labor. I'm sure this time around you will be more aware of this than anyone else! Good luck
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#4 of 33 Old 03-24-2002, 12:57 AM
 
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What I'm interested in knowing is: why/how would it get to that point? I mean, what about the way the labor was managed or the woman's physical condition would prevent her from feeling the urge to empty her bladder?
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#5 of 33 Old 03-24-2002, 07:54 PM
 
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Sweetwater, I don't exactly know what causes a woman to be so unaware of her bladder or if it happens to all women during labor. But it seems to be a recurring theme with my friend who is a labor assistant. She is constantly talking about having to remind her ladies to empty their bladders and how sometimes they'll be so focused on the labor that they don't wan't to even when my friend can feel the fullness of their bladders...

Heidi, I'm curious--do you know if your bladder was truly blocked or do you think you may not have been using the right muscles to empty it but thought you were since amniotic fluid was coming out? I'm sorry your midwives didn't notice what was happening and wish you much better luck next time.

Peace,
Sarah
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#6 of 33 Old 03-24-2002, 09:06 PM
 
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I have never written the words PREVENTATIVE MEASURE with such glee...just like keeping hydrated during labor, keeping the bladder empty is detrimental. As far as not feeling the urge to pee, here is my thought. As the bladder starts to fill, the amount is very minimal, and ideally even that little bit is voided during labor (although the amount is too small to give the urge). If a woman does not pee, the bladder continues to fill and by the time she feels the urge (if she does at all what with everything else going on!) the ureters are pinched and the bladder is distended = catheter and disruption of labor progression.
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#7 of 33 Old 03-25-2002, 02:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey,

Thanks for all your reply's.

I have very faded memories of my labor and "birth". I do remember sitting on the toilet ALOT and really not knowing if urine was coming out or not. No one thought to check. I am not sure at what stage but I remember feeling like I had to go I just didn't know nothing was coming out. It was my first baby and labor so I think I was really preoccupied with my labor. Hindsite really is 20-20. The midwife I had was one of my friends midwives so I really didn't interview her or get much info about her, I just trusted. I highly reccomend anyone to really ask questions about their midwives to make sure they really know what they are doing and that they are right for them etc etc. Looking back there were quite a few things my midwife did that I would not do again like giving me herbal laxitives to stimulate (hurry) labor, giving me a rogahm (sp?) shot with NO real info on the subject at all!!! it's a blood product for goodness sake!! which she didn't even mention!!!, things of this nature. I really liked her as a person I just don't think she was the right midwife for me.

As far as doing another homebirth, I DEFINITLY WOULD!!! I believe with all my being it's the only place I would want to be! I can't wait to do it again!

Heidi
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#8 of 33 Old 03-26-2002, 12:43 AM
 
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I planned a homebirth too, but ended up with a hospital birth VIA c-section (cord wrapped around so many times he never descended, therefore I never went into labor-at 42 weeks my water broke, and 48 hours later I had a section).

DH and I are still discussing whether or not we want another baby, but if we do, I really want to have a homebirth or go to a birthing center, run by lay midwives (all depending on our housing situation).

Can you tell me more about Silent Knife?

Mama to 3 kiddles. joy.giffencing.gif Doing my best and trying to stay afloat.vbac.gif

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#9 of 33 Old 03-26-2002, 03:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Im sorry to hear about your c-section, I can definitly understand the disappointment with ending that way!

I STRONGLY reccomend Silent Knife-Cesarean Prevention & Vaginal Birth After Cesarean by Nancy Wainer Cohen & Lois J. Estner to EVERY woman who has had a cesarean and also to any person wanting to really educate themselves about birth!

It answers a lot of questions about the safety of VBAC and natural birth. I don't really know how to explain it other than that, I just know that if you read it you wont be disappointed! It is well worth the time.

I borrowed a copy from someone at ICAN (international cesarean awareness network) but then found a copy at a used book store so I bought it for future reference and to read again before I get pregnant. We are planning to have our second soon and am planning another homebirth. We are just not sure if we want to have the baby in Nevada or my hometown in Washington (where our first birth was) or go somewhere more midwife/homebirth friendly.

Good luck to you!

If you have any other questions, you can email me if you'd like.

Heidi
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#10 of 33 Old 05-11-2002, 05:02 PM
 
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I had an unsuccessful homebirth the first time around and nobody could tell me what went wrong. Dd had entered the birth canal but just would not descend any further, BUT I also had a very full baldder. From what I'm reading here, it sounds like maybe that was the problem. So my question is, how do I pee during labor? Geez, that sounds so silly, but I really could not make myself go. The midwife made me go to the toilet regularly but I just could not make myself go and I tried and tried. It was like I just couldn't find the right muscles with everything else that was going on. I did lots of kegels while I was pregnant, should I have done more? I just found out I am pregnant with #2 and I am bound and determined to have a successful homebirth this time. Please help me pee!
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#11 of 33 Old 05-11-2002, 06:17 PM
 
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Congratulations cornflake girl! (I, myself never was a cornflake girl...)

Anyway, part of it might be in HOW you are doing the Kegels. If all you focus on is the squeeze all your muscles know is how to contract intentionally. You have to be just as aware of totally relaxing the same muscles with each repetition. Bradley teaches a whole set of different kinds, where you spend one week concentrating on slowly increasing the contraction and another week where you slowly release the contraction and then you work both in rotation. Did you do any of that before?
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#12 of 33 Old 05-11-2002, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Cornflake girl,

Your situation sounds just like mine, only we did not realize I was not actually peeing. I went to the bathroom time after time after time, I always felt I HAD to go but never realized nothing was actually coming out but amniotic fluid. I just thought that was normal labor feelings. My midwife never caught on so I just got fuller and fuller slowing labor. I have NO idea how to make yourself go, I honestly don't think I could have made myself, I think for some reason the tube was blocked and the only way was a catheter. Unless some experienced birth person who has had some experience with this particular problem reads this and has some other solution, the only way I can see is to test for urine and if none is ever present, go for the catheter. I would much rather have a catheter than another knife! Let me know if in your research you find an answer. We are expecting to be expecting # 2 in July, we are really hoping! Also going for another homebirth! Good Luck!

Heidi
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#13 of 33 Old 05-12-2002, 01:26 AM
 
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Kama, hmmmm, we took Bradley classes but my instructor pretty much focused on quantity of kegels rather than quality. I really don't recall working on relaxing the muscles at all. Thank you so much for that info., I am going to start doing quality kegels today!

JadeTree, I will definitely let you know if I find the answer. I am going to use a different midwife this time so maybe she will have some insight into this. Best of luck to you!
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#14 of 33 Old 05-12-2002, 01:40 AM
 
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I nearly had a C/S w/ #1 for just this reason. I didn't realize how important urinating was & nobody told me.

As soon as I was prepped for the c/s & they stuck the catheter in, the urine drained & I dilated very fast after that.

The second time around, this just was not a problem. There were other things that happened, but that's another story.
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#15 of 33 Old 05-12-2002, 04:15 PM
 
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Your midwife should have caught this. If labor is getting caught up they should sheck for a full bladder (can be done just by pressing in the right area).
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#16 of 33 Old 05-13-2002, 03:14 PM
 
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OK, now I'm REALLY angry! My midwife knew that my bladder was full because when she was doing internals she said she could feel it bulging, but she did nothing about it. GRRRRRRRR
She did put me on the toilet regularly and I could tell she was a little miffed that I couldn't pee, but she never told me that that might make me have to go to the hospital. If I had known that I'm sure I could have found the right muscles somwhere! I feel so cheated of my perfect homebirth that I so badly wanted. I guess all I can do now is focus on the upcoming birth and try to relax.
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#17 of 33 Old 05-13-2002, 03:50 PM
 
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guys,
i do not know how much it's worth, and i do not even remember where i've read about it, but it is completely harmless and cannot hurt.
if a woman in labor cannot pee, someone should take a glass of water with a straw and make the woman blow bubbles in the water through the straw.
i do not know if it really works, but i bet it is worth a try.

Valeria
dd 05.17.2005
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#18 of 33 Old 05-13-2002, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Cornflake Girl,

You are lucky that you have some answers from your midwife (although, not what you would have liked to hear!) I can't even talk to mine, she is in another state and everytime I think about calling her or going to see her ( I was up there visiting a couple times) I get all choked up and cannot talk. It is awful! I don't know that she would have any answers/explanations for me but I KNOW it couldn't hurt! My husband says there is no point in talking to her what's done is done but I am completely the opposite. Unfortunatly, he is the good talker and I am the emotional one. I know she has talked to other midwifes and doctors about my "case", I have this feeling that she could give us some kind of explanation that would help, and also answer some unanswered questions about what happened during my whole 55+ hour labor, it was so long and I was so tired I don't remember much. I just don't understand why my husband won't help/support me in talking to her. MEN!! For the first year after Sequoia was born, he said no more kids! Finally he is accepting of another one. I would have 5 or 10 if i had the time ! Anyways, I hope your midwife info helped and I really hope your new midwife is perfect for you!! Good Luck!!
Heidi
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#19 of 33 Old 05-13-2002, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Btw,

cornflake girl, I read in another thread that you just read John Robbins book, I absolutely LOVE him! What state do you live in? When are you due? If you'd like you can email me direct. I would love to chat with you about Diet for a New America (have you read his new one?), birth, babies, midwifes, husbands etc. I am all alone in Nevada...

Heidi
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#20 of 33 Old 05-13-2002, 05:39 PM
 
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JadeTree I pm'd you!
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#21 of 33 Old 05-13-2002, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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What exactly is a private message and how do i see it? Is it emailed direct? I am totally confused...
Heidi
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#22 of 33 Old 05-14-2002, 01:31 AM
 
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Valeria, I forgot to thank you earlier for the straw tip. I can see how that might work, and I am willing to try almost anything. I'll have to remember that if the need arises, thanks!

Heidi, pm's are found on the main forum index page. Scroll all of the way down and they are listed underneath the Activism forum.
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#23 of 33 Old 05-14-2002, 02:07 AM
 
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If a midwife knew your bladder was that full and that you couldn't pee why on earth wouldn't she catheterize you?
Not ideal or too pleasant but geez sure worth a try.
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#24 of 33 Old 05-14-2002, 10:55 AM
 
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I'm a homebirth midwife & I also wonder why you two weren't catheterized? After trying peppermint oil (the fumes help the urethral sphincter to relax & open) drops in the toilet (not on the skin) & all kinds of tricks, I've had to cath one laboring Mama & one postpartum Mama in my 20 years of being in the birthing field. karen of BirthTender
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#25 of 33 Old 05-14-2002, 11:53 AM
 
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Karen,
so what are the tricks to try in a situation like this?
and how many peppermint oil drops are needed? how long should one sit on the toilet to realise if they are working?
thanks

Valeria
dd 05.17.2005
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#26 of 33 Old 05-14-2002, 12:15 PM
 
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1) pour warm water over the urethral area while sitting on toilet, this also works well while reclining in a tub of warm water.
2) the old standby of turning on the faucet while sitting on the toilet or having one of those small home fountains nearby. Hearing one of those small fountains makes me need to pee every time I hear one.
3) placing ones fingers in bowls of warm water.

about 3 drops of peppermint oil in the toilet should do it & it usually works by about 5 mins. & usually less. Peppermint oil will burn mucus membranes, so make sure it doesn't touch the lady & make sure you wash your hands thoroughly after shaking a few drops in as it will usually flow down the side of the bottle & get on your hands.

Some women have a really hard time relaxing on the toilet because the contractions usually come harder while sitting on the toilet. I tend to find that women who are trying to control labor & the sensations of labor are the ones who have more difficulty peeing. I make sure that my ladies are drinking at least 8 ounces every hour & going & sitting on the toilet, at the least, every hour & that means sitting for longer than just a few min. When in labor, it takes a while of sitting on the toilet sometimes before the stream starts (I have that problem when I'm in labor) & if the urine doesn't come then we start the tricks. Placing a catheter is the last resort. hope these suggestions help someone. karen of BirthTender
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#27 of 33 Old 05-14-2002, 04:30 PM
 
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Wow Karen, thank you so much for all of those suggestions! I had no idea there was anything that could be done. My midwife just kind of acted like, "well you can't pee, oh well no big deal". I am now wondering about the competency of my mw as this all seems so basic. I was very uncomfortably on the toilet and kept complaining about it, guess she didn't want to hear me anymore. Funny you mentioned about women trying to control labor having problems peeing. I can be pretty controlling at times, but I thought that that was why I was able to handle the pain so effectively. Hmmm, something to think about. Thanks again!
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#28 of 33 Old 05-14-2002, 05:22 PM
 
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Hi! Peri bottles of warm water to squirt over your vaginal area can be a help in stimulating the urge. I also know a midwife who recommends homeopathic aconite to help...

It is amazing how much trouble a full bladder can be... but the signals to pee can be drowned out by the labor sensations, and then all the pressure of the decending baby can make directing the right muscles to release for peeing a challange... A bladder can hold 600 ml of urine, but at about 300 ml the bladder usually begins to send signals to initiate the urge to pee... this can be too much urine in the way at this point- so mom needs to empty often, and before a real urge hits...

Really the only way to actually tell if mom is really getting pee out is to use test strips in the flow- which would tell if it was present but not how much... The only other indicator is that, when the bladder becomes distended with urine (overly full), while mom is lying down on her back, the bladder would be seen markedly as a "second bulge" below the bulge of the uterus. So it is next to impossible to know if mom is emptying her bladder adequately unless she uses a bed pan, or is catheterized...

Sometimes the pressure of the lowered presenting part of the baby can make peeing next to impossible and mom will have to be catheterized...

I hope that this doesn't happen to you again...

Definitely try the peppermint oil trick...

The Lord bless you!
Zoie
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#29 of 33 Old 05-16-2002, 12:43 AM
 
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Thank God that didn't happen to me! I delivered ds in a hospitol and they never said I needed to urinate frequently (that I remember). I did need to go one time, went to the bathroom when I went to sit down, I about lurched back upright (in fact I think I did!! from the PAIN! Ouch! I don't remember going much, but I do know some came out. I will definately keep this in mind for this baby, especially since I had never heard of this!

Thanks!

Texanna
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#30 of 33 Old 05-16-2002, 01:47 AM
 
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I've read that it generally has very little bacteria, and that it's okay to pee in the birth tub water while in labor...
I did this many times myself, and it was really nice to be able to stay put.
Also it was easy to let go, once I got over the feeling of being a sneaky little kid peeing in the pool!

anyone know of a reason not to? hawleyclan, any thoughts? karen?

DIYer mama to DD 11/00 and DS 6/05- both intact, naturally!
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