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#61 of 103 Old 08-06-2008, 03:23 PM
 
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thing is, i wouldn't consider a birth center as a safe compromise, nor do i think there should be a compromise if i'm the one who has to go through the birth and could be potentially injured in the process just because someone is afraid and unwilling to educate themselves.

fears don't trump realities of injury and potential problems coming from birthing where one doesn't feel safe and supported, and "being married" doesn't imply that an individual doesn't have soveriegnty over their own body and medical choices.

sure, i think that communication is very important, that each person should be heard, but in the end--the individual physically goign through the process with their body, their whole being, gets to make the decision.

it's not fair to 'force' someone to compromise just because you're scared and uneducated.
I don't agree with your statement. After giving birth to my son I saw that my husband had a significantly more difficult job during labor then I did. I rode the wave of labor, my husband had to endure so much inner turmoil of not being able to do much of anything to assist or help me thorugh labor. He held my hands and did anything I asked of him and then some but it's different. I feel for me my husbands level of comfort with where I deliver is equally as important as mine and therefore should be respected.

Now, I also have a very different relationship with my husband then does the OP so I cannot answer for her as to whether its valid for her to dismiss his uninformed decision or angst about homebirth.

My husband had a ton of anxiety about a homebirth and we opted for a birth center birth our first birth and this birth we will be at home.


One another topic, KatelynsMomma, how are you doing? I've spent a lot of time worrying about you I can't imagine going through a pregnancy and dealing with all this extra stuff on top of this.
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#62 of 103 Old 08-06-2008, 03:29 PM
 
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i would have told him that if he wants any say at all then he has to speak up. dont threaten me, just tell me what you think and we can discuss it. if he isnt open to discussing anything or informing himself then he doesnt have a say. my DH has no say unless he talks out loud or reads something. he hates both things and just believes me when i tell him what i read.

your guy sounds scared and controlling. he cant tell you you cant birth in your own home. setting ultiamtums like divorce is just wrong.

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#63 of 103 Old 08-06-2008, 03:35 PM
 
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I'm so sorry that he is being a UA violation. I agree with PP that it;s about control and it sounds like there is a lot more going on than the birth.
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#64 of 103 Old 08-06-2008, 03:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Red_Lil_Mamma View Post
Yes, threatening a divorce is abusive, but based on what OP said in her original post I could see it being an understandable reaction as it sounds like maybe there was abuse on both ends.

We don't know all of OP's background, but it appears her husband's input and feelings weren't included the birth plans and he didn't even know everything that was going on until he talked to her mother. While maybe he didn't reach out to her, there was no reason she couldn't have talked to him—even if he didn't seem thrilled about it.

[...]
In that sense, his statement about divorce may not be abuse. It could be two other things:

A) a last ditch resort to protecting his child (in his eyes) bc he doesn't know all the facts and his fears were never heard out.

Or

B) Not a threat, but an actual promise.
[...]
I see things a bit differently. He WON'T talk to her or even open up about the homebirth. Per the OP

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I told him about it 2 months ago and he hasn't said a word to me about it since. He just said that I couldn't do it in this house.
So, it's not that she's not including him, or not trying to listen to him, he's trying to keep the peace by just not talking to her. It's like unless she "comes to her senses" he's not willing to be with her anymore.
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#65 of 103 Old 08-06-2008, 03:44 PM
 
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I am really surprised that nobody else is naming this as the emotional abuse that it is. It's totally unacceptable, beyond just 'Try counseling!'
ITA

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Probably because many of us have had "discussions" over homebirth that were almost that bad.
This is some serious passive aggressive control issues.

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But why does what you want trump what he wants?
When it's his body he can decide. I'd never decide my dh medical care and he wouldn't presume to decide mine. Additionally he refuses to educate himself and chooses to deal with issues by shutting down and running away. I'm all for discussion, but the OP dh isn't having a discussion, he is passive aggressively trying to control her. Under those conditions he doesn't get a say.
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#66 of 103 Old 08-07-2008, 03:08 PM
 
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When it's his body he can decide. I'd never decide my dh medical care and he wouldn't presume to decide mine. Additionally he refuses to educate himself and chooses to deal with issues by shutting down and running away. I'm all for discussion, but the OP dh isn't having a discussion, he is passive aggressively trying to control her. Under those conditions he doesn't get a say.
That's great. I'd totally jive with that—especially when I get a papsmear or my husband chooses to get a prostate exam.

Birthing does impact our bodies, yes? Well, guess who else's body it impacts? The baby's.

While our bodies are solely ours, our babies aren't (unless we are single parents who have no contact with the fathers/non-birth mothers). The babies belong to all the parents.

Unfortunately, a lot of people just don't get this. Many think that just bc the child comes out of one person's body, that all parenting decisions for that LO belong only to that person and the other person who didn't birth is just there for back up. Also, a lot of people have the misconception that only women are capable of making parenting choices.

Well, that's just not true—nor is it fair. It is no better than those who believe only men should work and "bring home the bread." And this is a big part of why non-pregnant partners get forgotten or deliberately shut out—causing jealousy, resentment, feelings of being used, and ultimately the destruction of what could have been a happy and loving marriage.

It doesn't matter that your partner is scared to talk. Corner him, ask him what's up, and be 100% honest with him. Unless he's a monster who beats people (at which point you should leave him for you and the kids), there is no reason to be afraid to do this. Yes, you may hurt his feelings, and yes, heated words may be exchanged, but a marriage doesn't progress without communication.

When you tell him your POV, ask if he agrees. If not, don't shut him out. Listen to his fears, talk it out, and ask if he'll let you show him things. Show him some literature. Show him videos on Youtube of both hospital and homebirths (this really helped me build a case with my guy). Ask him to do the same for you if he still feels strongly about hospital.

There are always ways to work things out. Sometimes things get heated, but as long as there is respect on both sides, a compromise can be made. It takes a little creativity and letting go of egos, but it is totally worth it, because both partners can grow from it to become stronger and love each other more.

This is especially important when children are involved—including birthing. You want a partner you can trust who you believe in and know will watch your back. Birth is just the beginning of a whole new world that you will need to be able to trust and rely in each other if you choose to stay together.

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#67 of 103 Old 08-07-2008, 03:27 PM
 
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That's great. I'd totally jive with that—especially when I get a papsmear or my husband chooses to get a prostate exam.

Birthing does impact our bodies, yes? Well, guess who else's body it impacts? The baby's.

While our bodies are solely ours, our babies aren't (unless we are single parents who have no contact with the fathers/non-birth mothers). The babies belong to all the parents.

Unfortunately, a lot of people just don't get this. Many think that just bc the child comes out of one person's body, that all parenting decisions for that LO belong only to that person and the other person who didn't birth is just there for back up. Also, a lot of people have the misconception that only women are capable of making parenting choices.

Well, that's just not true—nor is it fair. It is no better than those who believe only men should work and "bring home the bread." And this is a big part of why non-pregnant partners get forgotten or deliberately shut out—causing jealousy, resentment, feelings of being used, and ultimately the destruction of what could have been a happy and loving marriage.

It doesn't matter that your partner is scared to talk. Corner him, ask him what's up, and be 100% honest with him. Unless he's a monster who beats people (at which point you should leave him for you and the kids), there is no reason to be afraid to do this. Yes, you may hurt his feelings, and yes, heated words may be exchanged, but a marriage doesn't progress without communication.

When you tell him your POV, ask if he agrees. If not, don't shut him out. Listen to his fears, talk it out, and ask if he'll let you show him things. Show him some literature. Show him videos on Youtube of both hospital and homebirths (this really helped me build a case with my guy). Ask him to do the same for you if he still feels strongly about hospital.

There are always ways to work things out. Sometimes things get heated, but as long as there is respect on both sides, a compromise can be made. It takes a little creativity and letting go of egos, but it is totally worth it, because both partners can grow from it to become stronger and love each other more.

This is especially important when children are involved—including birthing. You want a partner you can trust who you believe in and know will watch your back. Birth is just the beginning of a whole new world that you will need to be able to trust and rely in each other if you choose to stay together.

I completely and totally agree with you and wanted to add something to your post.

The angst and worry a father feels through this process is not just for his spouse but for his child.

This is a huge worry and will move people to do say crazy things if they feel they are being ignored.
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#68 of 103 Old 08-07-2008, 05:53 PM
 
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He is an adult, it's his job to communicate with his partner in ways other than threatening divorce. He is the one refusing to communicate except by going behind her back and asking her mother. He didn't say a word for 2 months and you come back with the response that it's on the OP to make him communicate.


If he wants his opinion considered then he needs to have open communication with his partner.
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#69 of 103 Old 08-07-2008, 05:55 PM
 
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He is an adult, it's his job to communicate with his partner in ways other than threatening divorce. He is the one refusing to communicate except by going behind her back and asking her mother. He didn't say a word for 2 months and you come back with the response that it's on the OP to make him communicate.


If he wants his opinion considered then he needs to have open communication with his partner.
indeed.

i dont know where he got the idea that doing this was an acceptable way to treat a problem. He wants his ideas taken into consideration like an adult, yet he isnt acting like one.

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#70 of 103 Old 08-07-2008, 06:04 PM
 
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I completely and totally agree with you and wanted to add something to your post.

The angst and worry a father feels through this process is not just for his spouse but for his child.

This is a huge worry and will move people to do say crazy things if they feel they are being ignored.
So true! Even the most mellow people (both men and women) can turn into angry bears and say the most out-of-character things when they feel their children are threatened.

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He is an adult, it's his job to communicate with his partner in ways other than threatening divorce. He is the one refusing to communicate except by going behind her back and asking her mother. He didn't say a word for 2 months and you come back with the response that it's on the OP to make him communicate.

If he wants his opinion considered then he needs to have open communication with his partner.
She is an adult, too. One could argue it was her job to make sure to include her husband in the birth plans and encourage him speak up when she knew wasn't comfortable about it (and if your partner is avoiding discussing your birth plans for 2 months, it's pretty obvious he's not comfortable). It sounds like her mother may have been the first person he felt safe being honest with. Maybe he spoke to her, bc he was afraid of presenting these feelings to his wife as he knew how strong they were.

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#71 of 103 Old 08-07-2008, 06:27 PM
 
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I think Arduinna you are 100% correct that he is obligated to communicate with her as well.

I was only taking exception to the statement "her body her decision."

I think the issues here are significantly deeper then whether or not to homebirth.

I couldn't imagine making a decision like homebirth or anything that huge without fully discussing all of the ramifications with my spouse. And I'm sure you are the same way. This situation is a horrible situation for both husband and wife, and I pray that they are able to work through these issues prior to a baby coming.
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#72 of 103 Old 08-07-2008, 06:27 PM
 
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The thing is: she said he wasn't talking about the pregnancy. You can't hold a conversation with someone who isn't receptive to it. Similarly, if I were in the situation of having a husband who wasn't talking pregnancy/baby with me, was making statements like "if you have a homebirth we have a divorce" then I'm not going to assume that he's thinking solely of the welfare of his child. I'm going to assume that he's operating from a position of fear and/or preoccupation or that he lacks the accurate statistics on the safety of home birth and on the maternal/fetal morbidity rates with hospital birth.
That he's saying, blankly, "I don't need a counsellor, there's nothing wrong with me" feels like he's protesting too much.

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#73 of 103 Old 08-07-2008, 07:00 PM
 
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While our bodies are solely ours, our babies aren't (unless we are single parents who have no contact with the fathers/non-birth mothers). The babies belong to all the parents.

Unfortunately, a lot of people just don't get this. Many think that just bc the child comes out of one person's body, that all parenting decisions for that LO belong only to that person and the other person who didn't birth is just there for back up. Also, a lot of people have the misconception that only women are capable of making parenting choices.
Whatever. There are only two parents, and in birth the one birthing is the tie breaker when there is not an agreement. Even with a partner who will research the subject, opposition to a hb often comes down to their irrational fear. A woman should not risk her emotional and physical health to an irrational fear.

The OP wants to discuss; her "h" pretty much refuses, and she has decided to gestate in peace for her health and that of her baby. Did you even read what she posted of their discussions?

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#74 of 103 Old 08-07-2008, 07:12 PM
 
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Why not try a compromise? Birth center, maybe? I'm all for home birth, don't get me wrong. My husband said "absolutely not" when I brought up home birth the first time. I worked on him for months and he finally changed is mind when he was able to sit down with the midwife and ask her everything he wondered about.
You cannot compromise on birth. A birth center is not the same thing as a homebirth. It's someone else's "home", bed, bath, and you may be sharing "home" with other birthers. We did this "compromise" but dh ultimately changed his mind. Good thing because I found there is no way I would have left my house while in labor and that would have violated the "compromise".

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While I DO understand the whole "It's my body, I'll do what I want." factor.... a marriage is not about what just one person wants. It never is. And this goes BOTH ways. I believe if any partner is 100% against something, a compromise of sorts should be made.
Yeah, that works with many other things, but birth only happens from the woman and it is her body that has to deal with the consequences.

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What if your husband said "Yes, we are giving the baby the hepatitis B vaccine, circumcising, *insert something you are against here*." and then told you that you had absolutely no say? That is essentially what you are doing to him over homebirth.
No it is not the same thing; he has a "say" but that comes with the responsibility to research and discuss the issue, which he isn't. And in the situations in question the baby is an individual, outside the mother. Besides, if they disagree on homebirth then the mother has "no say" over her own birth. It is not as if hospital, bc, home are all equal and you just pick one; they are all different birthing spaces. In any case, the OP's "h" is not against homebirth because of specific medical issues concerning the OP or the baby, but just a generalizes fear. If there is a medical issue that can be researched and the relative safety of home or hospital weighed.

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But why does what you want trump what he wants?
She wants a homebirth and is the birther. What does what he wants trump what she wants? In this particular case a the person who does not do the research does not get a say.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#75 of 103 Old 08-07-2008, 07:22 PM
 
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Whatever. There are only two parents, and in birth the one birthing is the tie breaker when there is not an agreement. Even with a partner who will research the subject, opposition to a hb often comes down to their irrational fear. A woman should not risk her emotional and physical health to an irrational fear.

The OP wants to discuss; her "h" pretty much refuses, and she has decided to gestate in peace for her health and that of her baby. Did you even read what she posted of their discussions?
Yes, I did. Her posts were rather vague about how he avoided talking about things and what she actually did to talk to him (aside from drop literature on him).

Her posts make it appear that she's pushed the issue on him, but didn't listen to his fears and feelings. I'm sure he has more reasons to want to go to the hospital than just "everyone does it." But when you are passionate, sometimes it's very easy not to hear everything the other person is saying. It's especially true when you are pregnant as your mind is in a million other places.

I also got the sense that that both of them are non-confrontational—as she's said things like "I'm going to wait for him to approach me" and "I'm not going to mention what my mother said." Also, letting her husband go 2 months without talking about the birth? I think a lot of us would be screaming at our husbands to pipe up at that point.

Besides, it should not always have to be the man who approaches the woman. A lot of women expect this and then use it as an excuse to walk all over their partners. Likewise, I've seen men do it it, too. "Oh, you didn't *tell* me enough how upset you'd be so I just went ahead and made this huge *life* decision totally without you."

If you are really upset at your spouse, it's simple. You confront them, tell them the truth and how it makes you feel. Then you ask them what's going on and how they feel, and acknowledge their feelings. Talk it out. Don't dump crap on them or totally write them off for not 110% agreeing with your POV instantly.

Also, it is never good when other parties (relatives, friends) get involved in this kind of decision with a married couple when they can't agree. It becomes a situation where people are taking sides and that just aggravates things.

All that said, it's really a shame the two of them didn't work this out before the pregnancy. I hope they can work it out and find a peaceful compromise they both feel safe about, and I hope the OP's pregnancy and birth turns out to be beautiful.

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#76 of 103 Old 08-07-2008, 07:22 PM
 
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She wants a homebirth and is the birther. What does what he wants trump what she wants? In this particular case a the person who does not do the research does not get a say.
yes, i would not agree to letting someone else's fears based on ignorance make me not get the birth that I desire and need.

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#77 of 103 Old 08-07-2008, 07:23 PM
 
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I also got the sense that she's pushed the issue on him without letting him voice his fears. I'm sure he has more reasons to go to the hospital than "everyone does it," but maybe that's all she hears.
well other than those reasons there are no reasons if this is a relatively normal risk pregnancy.

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#78 of 103 Old 08-07-2008, 08:23 PM
 
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well other than those reasons there are no reasons if this is a relatively normal risk pregnancy.
But this isn't about whether or not there are legit reasons for homebirth (there are plenty) or homebirth safety (we all know on this board it's pretty safe with the right people and when you are in a low risk pregnancy).

This is about respecting a partner's POV and acknowledging their fear—even if you don't agree with it or if you have evidence it's wrong. Fears have no logic, but to shun them or put them down does nothing to alleviate them.

Let's talk about colors. After all colors are harmless things, right?

Say, a person in a marriage has an deep-founded phobia of the color yellow. We don't know why. He or she never says.

The other spouse has always had a big strong desire to have a house of yellow rooms as it makes him or her feel safe. Up to this point, no one has talked about it, but they just bought their first house and redecoration is on the horizon.

So should the yellow-loving spouse ignore the yellow-fearing spouse's feelings, drop a thick book about colors in the fearful partner's workbag, and then proceed (with his or her parents) to paint every room in the house yellow?

What do you think that would accomplish?

Do you think the person who afraid of yellow would get over their fear after walking through the door? I think that person would be speechless, but not in a happy way. Intense fear shuts people down, and it makes them run.

Now, this doesn't mean you give up on something you believe in and know deep down is right just because your partner is afraid. It means their fear needs to be recognized and respected in order to be changed.

It helps to listen to them to make things work, and expose them to new ideas and views slowly and in tiny bite-sized pieces. Let them know how you feel and find out how they feel—not just present ram on them hard statistics and facts. This is a big part of the territory of having a healthy partnership.

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#79 of 103 Old 08-07-2008, 08:33 PM
 
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Seems to me anyone who would threaten divorce for something like this without talking about it with his partner has other issues. I wouldn't want to be married to such a person.

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#80 of 103 Old 08-07-2008, 08:48 PM
 
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But this isn't about whether or not there are legit reasons for homebirth (there are plenty) or homebirth safety (we all know on this board it's pretty safe with the right people and when you are in a low risk pregnancy).

This is about respecting a partner's POV and acknowledging their fear—even if you don't agree with it or if you have evidence it's wrong. Fears have no logic, but to shun them or put them down does nothing to alleviate them.

Let's talk about colors. After all colors are harmless things, right?

Say, a person in a marriage has an deep-founded phobia of the color yellow. We don't know why. He or she never says.

The other spouse has always had a big strong desire to have a house of yellow rooms as it makes him or her feel safe. Up to this point, no one has talked about it, but they just bought their first house and redecoration is on the horizon.

So should the yellow-loving spouse ignore the yellow-fearing spouse's feelings, drop a thick book about colors in the fearful partner's workbag, and then proceed (with his or her parents) to paint every room in the house yellow?

What do you think that would accomplish?

Do you think the person who afraid of yellow would get over their fear after walking through the door? I think that person would be speechless, but not in a happy way. Intense fear shuts people down, and it makes them run.

Now, this doesn't mean you give up on something you believe in and know deep down is right just because your partner is afraid. It means their fear needs to be recognized and respected in order to be changed.

It helps to listen to them to make things work, and expose them to new ideas and views slowly and in tiny bite-sized pieces. Let them know how you feel and find out how they feel—not just present ram on them hard statistics and facts. This is a big part of the territory of having a healthy partnership.
he is not respecting her, or their relationship by using the divorce card without even talking to her.

if painting my house yellow would make my chances of having a healthy baby and a healthy body after painting it higher, and if not painting my house yellow was a possible detriment to my health and my family's health... i would be at home depot buying all of their stock of yellow and my partner would be getting therapy to get over his issues with the color.

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#81 of 103 Old 08-07-2008, 11:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i have a husband who does not talk about ANYTHING! and when i say that he wants to have a hospital birth because everyone else does, that is basically it. end of discussion. he does not want to hear my POV, any facts, stats, etc. i answered his questions but the reality is, he doesn't want to read, listen, be crammed full of facts, etc. i would be happy to give him facts, calm his fears, etc. but he doesn't want to listen. if you knew him, you would understand. but really, this doesn't matter since now i have quite a bit of evidence to believe that he is cheating on me starting this past weekend so this is the least of my worries. even though he told me that he was happy in our marriage, this obviously isn't the truth.
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#82 of 103 Old 08-07-2008, 11:38 PM
 
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Sounds like he is just looking for a reason to leave from your description.

 
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#83 of 103 Old 08-07-2008, 11:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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sad, very sad since i have about 2 weeks until I am due
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#84 of 103 Old 08-07-2008, 11:49 PM
 
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X 1000

Babe I am so sorry your going though this right now, I dont have any advice for you but I couldnt just read and run.
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#85 of 103 Old 08-08-2008, 12:00 AM
 
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Yes mama, big big hugs. Wish I could be more helpful.

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
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#86 of 103 Old 08-08-2008, 12:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KatelynsMomma View Post
sad, very sad since i have about 2 weeks until I am due
I'd tell him don't let the door hit ya on the way out... Seriously mama, you know what you need to do. So go do it, and have a happy birth and a healthy baby. And later on maybe you can find someone who supports you, uplifts you, and respects you and your children. Good luck
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#87 of 103 Old 08-08-2008, 04:36 PM
 
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sad, very sad since i have about 2 weeks until I am due


You can do it.

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this right now.
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#88 of 103 Old 08-08-2008, 05:46 PM
 
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Many, many, many for you mama.

I am also sorry that this thread hasn't been all about support for YOU.

In some cases divorce is best, it's not worth staying married if you are dealing with emotional abuse like this. If he is cheating so be it, if he isn't so be it, I'd still get a divorce.

Keep your mind on an easy, relaxed, beautiful birth. It IS about you and the baby!!! Please surround yourself with supportive people and stay positive

wife to DH 2/03, mama to DS 3/03 & DD 1/09
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#89 of 103 Old 08-08-2008, 06:14 PM
 
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Hugs Mama!! I'll be praying for peace and strength for you and your little ones!!!
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#90 of 103 Old 08-08-2008, 06:30 PM
 
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We're all here for you.

Mama to Munchkin  and Chickadee ...and co-parent to 3 additional bundles of energy!
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