Child Protective Services - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 24 Old 10-26-2003, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
normajean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Slice of Heaven
Posts: 1,599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've seen a few mentions here and there of CPS interfering after a home birth. What is the liklihood of this happening? Has it happened to you? Do you feel you could have prevented it?

Did you tell people beforehand that you were going to do a home birth? Do you feel it affected anything with CPS?
normajean is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 24 Old 10-26-2003, 10:33 PM
 
JesseMomme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: not here anymore
Posts: 7,901
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
*
JesseMomme is offline  
#3 of 24 Old 10-27-2003, 12:11 AM
 
2much2luv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Like I'd tell you.
Posts: 5,999
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh how awful, Jesse.

Can I ask some more questions?

For you Jesse, what was the investigation like? Did they try to take your kids? Did they just look around and ask you questions and find out very quickly that it was a phony call?

Fear of CPS is something that haunts me at times too. :
2much2luv is offline  
#4 of 24 Old 10-28-2003, 12:27 PM
 
JesseMomme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: not here anymore
Posts: 7,901
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by 2much2luv
Oh how awful, Jesse.

Can I ask some more questions?

For you Jesse, what was the investigation like? Did they try to take your kids? Did they just look around and ask you questions and find out very quickly that it was a phony call?

Fear of CPS is something that haunts me at times too. :
*
JesseMomme is offline  
#5 of 24 Old 10-29-2003, 03:40 PM
 
LazureFairie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: northeast
Posts: 82
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am so sorry you had to go through this. Even after they disappeared and didn't do those follow-up visits you suffered with PPD.

Since our ordeal I have not been able to carry a pregnancy to term.
I am in support of these agencies being abolished altogether. Real child abuse is very rare and in the actual cases of abuse these agencies have been totally ineffective in stopping it.
If any of you are truly concerned about being reported or just want to know more about these agencies, I encourage you to check out CPS Watch.
http://www.cpswatch.com
LazureFairie is offline  
#6 of 24 Old 11-06-2004, 02:21 PM
 
Seeking Refuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am sorry that you had to go through that, it sounds awful.

I have to admit that this is something that I worry about also. My family is not in favor of the way dh and I are raising our younger two children in general (we don't vax, are planning on homeschooling the younger two, and obviously are into the natural health thing) Of course I have the obligatory evil ex-husband who demands that I send the older girls to school.

I don't do well child visits for ds, because since naturopathy is also "practicing medicine without a license" in Iowa, there aren't any AP friendly doctors. I work with my midwife for most things and have am taking the Rosemary Gladstar class for Herbology. I am sure that these things would not hold up if CPS came knocking and I do worry about it.

ETA Jesse that is a good idea about the cradle. I have a bassinet in the basement that I wasn't going to get out but I think that I might just in case.

Stephany
Seeking Refuge is offline  
#7 of 24 Old 11-06-2004, 03:42 PM
 
Keeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern Utah
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've thought about this too, because the OB I'm seeing for consults disagrees with me on vaginal birth this time around. He's dying to pull out that scalpel and cut me open, but I'm just not going to submit on the basis of a third trimester ultrasound weight estimate. I don't think he'll call, but it's a possibility.

For the record, my youngest kids are nonvaxed and I don't take them to well child checkups at all, because my insurance doesn't cover them! I don't have the money to plop down $60-$80 out of pocket for four (almost 5) kids every six months to a year.

I've had DPS called on me over my housekeeping, and I can say it's an awful experience. I had been feeling really good that day and had opened all the blinds and windows to let the sunshine in. After the SW left, I closed it all up again, because I just couldn't get over how exposed and violated I felt. I was pregnant and miscarried and hemorrhaged shortly after and was in the hospital when the SW came for the follow up. I know it wasn't his fault, and he was very kind and felt that there was no need for action, but sometimes I'm almost glad he got to hear of the aftermath and maybe feel a little remorse.

Sigh,
Sarah
Keeper is offline  
#8 of 24 Old 11-06-2004, 04:45 PM
 
Seeking Refuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Some of you read that I was having problems with blood pressure and things like that. It never occurred to me that worrying about this kind of stuff and being sick during the pregnancy could be related.

It is really terrible that they can come in and just upset people's lives like that. Makes me long to live in a cabin out in the woods somewhere where no one can find me.

Stephany
Seeking Refuge is offline  
#9 of 24 Old 11-06-2004, 06:20 PM
 
mwherbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 5,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
It is a felony to false report, and this is something I would let be known around.
mwherbs is offline  
#10 of 24 Old 11-06-2004, 07:11 PM
 
LadyWulf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Anniston, AL
Posts: 972
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just wanted to speak up to the PP who stated that CPS be abolished because "real abuse" is rare. Well....i am one of those "rare" cases. I was taken from my father when i was 14 because he was raping me. I was not sent to my mother because she beat me and my step father made advances towards me. Being a survivor of this "rare" abuse i am here to tell you it is NOT RARE!!!!! I know too darn many people who have been abused to even consider it as being RARE. CPS has been good to me and i support them.

And just so you know...i have been falsely accused by my MIL and GMIL of abuseing my children. CPS did an investigation and found that it was false. I was worried. I did freak out to begin with. I simply worked with the SW and spoke frankly with him. I do not vax or do well child visits either and they had no problem with it because my children were healthy. My son has never been to a doctor since his birth. (he was born in a hospital) BTW this was backwoods Alabama and the SW knew nothing about non vaxing or anything "natural" I didn't have a problem and from the first visit from the SW i was told not to worry that it is just a formality.
LadyWulf is offline  
#11 of 24 Old 11-07-2004, 03:32 AM
 
willowsmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: 76244
Posts: 2,342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We had a CPS scare a few weeks ago after Willow startled our dog and he bit her on the head. Not surprisingly, the hospital had to call CPS because the incident involved a child...but thankfully they were smart enough to realize it was an accident and have not done anything since.

I've had to call CPS several times for children being neglected by their parents. I was told flat out..."If the child isn't bleeding, we can't do anything."

I'm very fearful that CPS will come and take Willow away because of all the things we do (or rather, don't do)...I'm VERY cautious about who I divulge information about our non-vaxing and co-sleeping with.

Take care and...I hope everything turns out well for ya'll.

Jenn - Mom, Photographer, Barista 

willowsmom is offline  
#12 of 24 Old 11-07-2004, 02:43 PM
 
Seeking Refuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I try to be low key about what we do and it had been working pretty well until my oldest daughter turned about ten. How do I explain to her that there is nothing wrong with the choices we are making and then ask her not to tell anyone? I guess that is a different topic but I am trying to keep knowledge of this homebirth to a minimum which is hard to do when you have two young girls in school.

Stephany
Seeking Refuge is offline  
#13 of 24 Old 11-10-2004, 05:32 PM
 
Mama2Lennon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
[QUOTE=mom2radata] How do I explain to her that there is nothing wrong with the choices we are making and then ask her not to tell anyone? /QUOTE]

I have had to do this with ds. CPS has been called twice for us - first when we went RAW - and then because a paranoid public health nurse didn't think he should go to the playground alone. Just to clarify, we live in a housing complex well away from roads, behing other apartment buildings, in a very self-contained community. The playground is at the end of our block and I can hear ds from our home. The funny thing is that in three months, when ds turns five, he would be allowed to go alone. Anyway, sort of off topic but I thought I should clarify that.
Because they have been around, and I was very scared, ds knows that there are people out there who can and will take him away. We know a young child who was taken away, he lived in our last apartment, so it's very real to us. I have had to tell him that there are things he cannot tell others because they don't understand why they are good. He knows that how we live is good and tells me that he feels sorry for kids who don't get milky or have to sleep alone. We have also talked about how just because some people think some things are bad, or should be illegal, doesn't mean that they are right. However it is approached I think we can still live our lives but tell our children that not everyone agrees and that unfortunately, they have the power to take children away. It might scare them but it's better than having to deal with CPS or worse, losing our children.
Why is that the we, who are following our hearts and doing what we know to be right and true for our families, have to be worried and paranoid about losing the children we obviously love so dearly? It sucks!
Mama2Lennon is offline  
#14 of 24 Old 11-11-2004, 01:09 PM
 
Seeking Refuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am beginning to think that I need to be more of an activist about my choices instead of hiding them like I am ashamed of what I am doing, especially where the homebirth is concerned.
I have to admit though I have been cleaning a little bit more than usual the last few days and we are going to set up the bassinet in our bedroom, even though I have no intentions on using it because the evil step-mother told the girl's that I could roll over and kill the baby in the night if I slept with it, so obviously they think along those lines.

Stephany
Seeking Refuge is offline  
#15 of 24 Old 11-11-2004, 02:03 PM
 
nikandgeisel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have to agree that you should not have to hide your personal choices such as homebirth, non-vax, etc. I do have to disagree with the pp that said these agencies should be abolished. I work in a school as a counselor and I know all too well about these oh so "rare" occurances of abuse. I've seen the cigarette burn marks and been told of the sexual abuse, etc. In reality, CPS will not take your child because you gave birth at home. They have too many of these "rare" cases to deal with anyway. I'll be honest that I think CPS needs to be more effective, but to do away with them would be a horrible mistake. Read "A Child Called It" and know that there are actually kids (and it isn't a small number of them) that are in situations like this.
nikandgeisel is offline  
#16 of 24 Old 11-17-2004, 03:37 AM
 
paloma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If you are ever visited, do NOT try to convince CPS about AP. You are not going to "educate" them, because they know more than you do, or your midwife, or your doctor. (What, no sarcasm smillie symbol?)

I had a doctor to back up what I was doing and I was found negligent for no food 'till 9 months, under the care of a doctor who agreed, a ped! A breastfeedin' specialist!

All workers are different, and this one has a copy of a couple pages of Peggy's book, now that the case has remained open against me.

I wasn't doing anything wrong, either, but we live in a screwy world.

It has been likened to seeing a bear in the woods. Back away slowly all the while acting nonthreatening. Do not engage the bear and try to convince him that he has no business being on your woodland path.

(I almost need the off topic smillie symbol.)
paloma is offline  
#17 of 24 Old 11-17-2004, 04:44 AM
 
mwherbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 5,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I have been to educational classes put on by CPS and the caseworkers we see are very polished and reasonable. But I have also met some really messed up caseworkers as well. The caseworkers I know personally have abuse histories themselves and want to protect children. There is so much abuse around here that caseworkers are usually more than fair. I have heard stories from nurses where they have drug withdrawal babies from addicted mothers and the caseworkers really question the nurse about attachment and if there is any possibility of bonding and working with the mom. The people I know who work in CPS can tell you some hair raising stories and they are very tragic ones indeed, burned, cut, scalded, beaten, starved, molested babies not to mention older kids. They are around so many messed up kids that most are amazed at normal kids and can see the difference. This is in AZ so can't comment on what it is like in other states, they are over worked and under paid here and are reluctant to take kids unless they truly are in extreme danger. For instance one woman told me a story where they came into a house because of a complaint and the house was filthy with dog manure all over the floor, and no toilet just the drain pipe in the bathroom. They left and asked the parents to clean up the house in 2 weeks. There just isn't enough facilities, foster parents or caseworkers to go around. They consider vaccinations, birth place and breastfeeding parent's lifestyle choices and not in their realm unless there is some other form of obvious abuse going on.
mwherbs is offline  
#18 of 24 Old 11-17-2004, 01:11 PM
 
paloma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwherbs
They consider vaccinations, birth place and breastfeeding parent's lifestyle choices and not in their realm unless there is some other form of obvious abuse going on.
I do not understand why you would make this errant statement. It would seem that you are directly saying that there was "some other obvious form of abuse going on."

In my case this was a very real intrusion by dysfunctional, uninformed people. They do see non-vax as neglectful even though there is an exemption in my state.

Please make the necessary corrections to your statement.

In keeping with the OP, the threat, as it has been seen in my experience, is very real; my original post, valid.
paloma is offline  
#19 of 24 Old 11-17-2004, 11:19 PM
 
mwherbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 5,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
paloma I was not responding to your post I was responding to OP and I am saying what is true for my state. Do you live in AZ? perhaps where you live they have enough funding to have other things to persue. I don't know but I do know that this statement has been made to me by numerous case workers in AZ. Case workers of clients who are involved in other ways, so it is not just lip service but also what I have seen in action. infact if parents are pot smokers the kids aren't removed from the home, but the parents have to take the parenting classes and drop clean for 3-12 months. I have heard horror stories of the mid-west like Missouri where they will take your kids if your house isn't clean.
mwherbs is offline  
#20 of 24 Old 11-26-2004, 07:25 PM
 
applejuice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: hunting the wild aebelskiever
Posts: 18,404
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwherbs
They consider vaccinations, birth place and breastfeeding parent's lifestyle choices and not in their realm unless there is some other form of obvious abuse going on.
No, this is a very false statment.

As a woman of age fifty, the mother of four, the second mother to nine, and a credentialed teacher of thirty years experience, you are so very wrong!

I am in Los Angeles, California. I posted my experience over on the vax boards, and I will mention it here.

I asked my DH and DD to watch my then one year old so I could shower. As I showered, I heard a crash and my baby scream. I ran naked out of the shower to my baby's aid; blood was everywhere; he had fallen and something had fallen on him and hit him on his face. I dressed quickly and drove to the ER. I looked a wreck, but my only concern was for my baby.

The ER doctor never looked at my baby.
He only asked questions about how well he ate (he was still breastfed, which I was afraid to admit to) and whether he was up-to-date on his vaccinations (I said that he was fully taken care of - as far as I was concerned he was).
DS was wearing a cloth diaper that needed changing after a while; no one would help me with a new diaper - my requests were ignored.
I was soon surrounded by seven police officers (where are they when you really need them?), blocking the doors and looking suspiciously at me. One of the officers called me a "pig and a whore"; the report that was written was a pack of lies. I reported each of the officers to Internal Affairs and nothing came of it.
I left ten hours later, without any care given to my son, and a bill for $1,500.00 which I refused to pay.
I went to my own children's dentist the next day.

I reported to the State Board Of Medical Quality Assurance the MD - Dr. Benedon - for his omission in providing care at the ER, and nothing came of that. Apparently, I am the only person who is guilty in this case, guilty for seeking help from those who could care less.

Six months later, I got a call from CPS to set up a a home visit. If I was such a terrible threat to the welfare of my DS, why does it take them six months to check in on a "bitch" like me? She arrived without identification and threatened to call the police (again!?) if I did not let her in. After she came in, she made a glowing report, which I asked for a copy of, a request she refused.

I have had many encounters since, none of which negates this horrific event...

CPS should be abolished. They help no one. Child Abuse is largely a myth.

I complained many times about the abuse I suffered from my alcoholic mother, and I was told to shut up and be grateful I had a mom...so I did.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
applejuice is offline  
#21 of 24 Old 11-26-2004, 09:36 PM
 
Victorian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 2,715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Applejuice. My soon-to-be-nephew had both of his legs broken, he was strangled and his ear was burned off. But, as long as child abuse is not real, I guess my sister should just turn him back over to the "real" mother. I thank god for CPS.

I homebirth, breastfeed, don't vaccinate and co-sleep. I have yet to meet a social-worker that I wouldn't invite in for dinner. I lived with my sister and her DH when they first got foster-nephew. I spoke to the SW long about my parenting choices. They teach attachment parenting in the parenting classes.

I am sorry that you are so angry about your experiences, but "CPS should be abolished. They help no one. Child Abuse is largely a myth." Is just not true.

In your very next sentence you admit that it is not true "I complained many times about the abuse I suffered from my alcoholic mother, and I was told to shut up and be grateful I had a mom...so I did."

angry does not = correct

Victorian
Victorian is offline  
#22 of 24 Old 11-27-2004, 01:12 AM
 
paloma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Come to think of it, I went to the ER a few weeks after birthing at home, and the Doc. asked a number of "I am trying to retain my professional demeanor" questions. I answered her many questions with a few truths. "My midwife is licensed to care medically for her up to 6 weeks." "Yes, of course she is licensed" "The baby is up to date on all her shots!" "I had prenatal care from five weeks on." "Yes, she had a pediatrician." "My postpartum medical care is ongoing" "She is gaining weight steadily. I actually came because of my own chest pain, she is not being treated." (and you, ignorant boob, are causing me more stress?)

I hope this helps the OP.
paloma is offline  
#23 of 24 Old 11-27-2004, 03:05 AM
 
*Erin*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: in a magnolia tree
Posts: 2,391
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
the fact that this statement "Real child abuse is very rare " has been said not once but several times on this thread almost makes me vomit. child abuse is extremely common. how can anyone say otherwise????

that said, cps scares the living hell of me too. they have too much power and not enough checks and balances. and the system doesnt save every kid that needs help. i heard a blurb on the news some months ago that the state of florida has lost about 400 kids. lost them. never followed up on them when they needed to and now can't find them anywhere.

Erin, 33, salty southern mama, sitting by the sea with my DH35, DD10, DS4, &DD2!
*Erin* is offline  
#24 of 24 Old 11-27-2004, 05:03 AM
 
applejuice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: hunting the wild aebelskiever
Posts: 18,404
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Thank you for your very educated, professional opinion.

How long have you been a therapist?

As a professional of thirty years it has been my job and legal, professional obligation to report any and all suspected cases of child abuse. I have done this very thing myself many times and I have NEVER seen CPS ever do anything to help anyone EVER.

I work in a private religious school. The last time I reported child abuse was two years ago because the mother never brought her two sons to school on time and never picked them up on time; both had been students of mine and complained that there was no food at home and their clothes were never clean - the mother showed up disheveled day after day, wearing Daisy Mae outfits, smelling of tobacco, tired and appeared to be in an altered consciousness everyday - no, I never smelled alcohol on her breath, but she never looked me in the eye and often wore sunglasses even after sunset. CPS told me on the phone that since the boys were in no apparent danger, there was no reason for them to become involved. I do not know what exactly that means, but I guess it is easier for them to pick on innocent people who are taken off guard as I have been.

Another time I reported a little girl since she lived in her father's apartment which was packed with newspapers and I felt it was a fire hazard. I called CPS; I was told since the little girl was fed and clothed properly and going to school, she was in no danger at all, so there was nothing to investigate - they said that some people are just slobs, so what (!?!) I was told to MYOB. A week later, a plumber was in the apartment upstairs making a repair, and he walked through the apartment with a policeman to get in for a common wall repair in the plumbing...the policeman called CPS about the horrible clutter, and the little girl was put into CPS care immediately, and she has been adopted by her maternal aunt. I suppose it makes a big difference when a man makes the call.

Another time, I found a man of majority age in my minor daughter's bed at midnight. I chased him down and brought him back to the house, and called the police. The LAPD laughed at me and told me to shut up since,"You did not see anything, you stupid, dumb bitch!", in front of my DH and three sons. I tried to press charges, and the police told me they were not going to bother to file with the District Attorney since there was no crime committed. No such thing as statutory rape in the CA Penal Code - ? They told me this in front of my younger sons, then thirteen, eleven, and four. A CPS worker told also me in front of my younger sons that no crime was committed, that all teenagers do this and that it is perfectly normal, so I should just shut up (?)

Another time, my daughter told me that someone in school had molested her. I went to the police and tried to make a crime report. The police officer, Bartelmas, refused to take a report since he said that the school district was exempt - (?) I reported this officer to Internal Affairs, and officer Crocker told me that the officer said and did nothing wrong.

Am I in Hell or what the hell is going on?

See, as far as CPS is concerned, there is no such thing as child abuse either.

They have never helped me, as a child or as an adult.

They are completely worthless, a complete waste of time and $.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
applejuice is offline  
Reply

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off