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#1 of 40 Old 12-03-2008, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi gals,

I am in an unusual situation, I think.

I had my baby, Josie, on October 10th and we very sadly lost her to a complete placental abruption. I had an emergency c section - probably the most awful event of my life just by itself (you can feel free to read the birth story if you like - it's detailed in there).

Now I am dealing with Josie's death in a normal way but boy...the c section. Even my DP Harry knows how I am feeling about that one. In his words yesterday evening he said my "dreams were totally stomped on and smashed" and he's still angry about that. We were planning a homebirth in water. I had total confidence in my body and everything was fine until the last minute. We think the abruption was caused by extreme stress in my job in the last few weeks (I am talking, crazy stress).

Now, here's the real point of this post... While we are not looking to replace our daughter, who was just the most beautiful thing I've ever, ever seen - we want to try again. Harry almost more than me - he is so terribly disappointed as well (this actually being his second loss to date). We were thinking of waiting just a few months to stop being careful - maybe stop using protection in January and conceiving whenever, after that. My c section was beautifully stitched up (though I still feel psychologically cut in half...you know how it is...) with a double layer of stitches, I never had any infection...my lochia got down to spotting perhaps 2-3 weeks after delivery; my uterus was back down to normal size pre-pregnancy by 6.5 weeks post delivery...so in short, I have surprised everyone (the doc, my midwife etc) with my healing.

Come to the point...we may have had a slip up. I actually ovulated this month a few days ago - confirmed now by temps (see my chart if you like - gosh I love charting ). I am hoping it "ain't so" (as it were) but...there is always the possibility that I may have conceived. I don't know, we will have to see - BUT nevertheless, that possibility does exist. I have been charting and using OPK's to see how my body is reverting to normal following this c section and pregnancy, and something is telling me we may have slipped a little...

So, hypothetically, if I have conceived, and carry this baby to term, what are the chances of VBAC? I really, really, really do NOT want another c section. Even a scheduled one. I know emergency sections are worse, but for God's sakes, I just want to have a baby naturally, KWIM?

Now obviously if I have dodged the bullet, this is not an issue this month. I'm not scared on being pregnant back to back...it's kind of fine with me, because I would really love to hold a living baby one of these days, and I know in some ways, that will contribute to the healing process.

Nevertheless - what do you guys think? Do you have any stories of people in a similar situation to mine in terms of short timespans between c section and VBAC? I think probably, whatever happens, we will likely be conceiving before 6-9 months...I really can see us conceiving a little sooner than that. Had Josie survived, I wouldn't even be thinking this way - and after the next baby, I'll certainly be taking a break. But I know that whatever happens, I'll be needing support next time around, and good stories always help with confidence, you know?

Anyway enough rambling! Sorry if the questions were vague - I do think this is the right place for expertise though! Thanks, all of you. *hugs* XX

Mama to Josie , lost 10/10/08 at 37.4 weeks .
and my rainbow baby, Isobella Mai ...born 1/12/2010 ! in profile...
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#2 of 40 Old 12-03-2008, 12:42 PM
 
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I can't say that I know how to answer your question. Research suggests having 18 months in between deliveries is best for VBAC but I don't know much about what the risks are if that time is shortened.

I am sorry for your loss, glad to hear that you are healing in many ways, and hope that your dreams come ture for #2.

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#3 of 40 Old 12-03-2008, 01:08 PM
 
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I am very sorry you lost your little girl, i can't even imagine

The PP is correct, 18+ months between births is best in terms of letting your body heal up and the risks going down. However (complications aside) the success of having a vbac mostly depends upon your care provider and a supportive environment. If you find a care provider who is supportive, even though there is a shorter time between births than is optimal, you still have a good chance.

I hope that you can have the birth you desire for you and your next little one.

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ribboncesarean.gif vbac.gifhomebirth.jpg I have given birth a variety of ways and I am thankful for what each one has taught me.

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#4 of 40 Old 12-04-2008, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks ladies *hugs*

I was wondering if you know of any threads, or similar situations here on MDC that I can read up about?

Mama to Josie , lost 10/10/08 at 37.4 weeks .
and my rainbow baby, Isobella Mai ...born 1/12/2010 ! in profile...
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#5 of 40 Old 12-04-2008, 07:28 PM
 
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I am so sorry for your loss.

I had a traumatic first birth. DD1 was losing blood and I had to be knocked out for them to cut her out of me at 36w. Never did get an explanation of why she was bleeding, so it made me extremely nervous the second time around. My two are 17 months apart, partially by design. My second birth was 36 hours, beautiful VBAC, but I could not have done it just anywhere. Most hospitals around here would have been insisting on cutting me open at 24 hours or wouldn't have allowed me to VBAC in their hospital at all. First and foremost, find an OB and hospital completely supportive that will not try to pressure you. Good Luck, Mama!

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#6 of 40 Old 12-04-2008, 09:30 PM
 
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Big hugs.

Although the studies give a thumbs up for a spacing of roughly one year between the c/s and the next pregnancy, or 18 months between the c/s and the next birth... nothing in iology is 100%. Some women heal quickly and completely, others don't. A lot depends on the individual scenario (I know, not a huge help).

However... these studies generally assume that the woman has been caring for a child during the physical healing period. They assume a less than ideal environment for healing (that the woman is sleep deprived, possibly anemic during early healing, stressing her wound by picking up a child/caring for a child), that there is some nutritional lack, etc). In your case you avoided many of those physical stressors (and I'm not saying that you weren't coping with huge stress or emotional pain). So you may have healed more quickly/completely than the women in those studies. And even in those studies, a vbac wasn't out of the question if the interval varied from 12 or 18 months. It's just that the numbrs were "better" for that interval (and that interval is actually suggested for all mamas, regardless of how the birth happens).

I know mamas who have VBAC's with a shorter interval and been fine. The real difficulty is finding a provider who can and will support a VBAC with a shorter interval. Do you have a local ICAN group? They may have ideas for local providers. And the "Healing from Birth Trauma" sub forum here at mdc may have other mamas who have been through similar experiences.

I hope this month brings you a measure of peace, no matter what the results of the test are.

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#7 of 40 Old 12-04-2008, 09:32 PM
 
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Having had two cesareans, a stillbirth (twins) and a post stillbirth baby my opinion is that I would not get pregnant before the 9 month mark. It's necessary to wait to give your body a chance to heal and to replace nutritional stores. It's also emotionally necessary IMO.

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#8 of 40 Old 12-06-2008, 11:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the replies gals X

I am just waiting now, I'm about 5 days past ovulation or so, so we'll see. I'll probably start testing about 10dpo (I get teased by DP about peeing on sticks all the time, lol) and see what's up. We shall see...

Mama to Josie , lost 10/10/08 at 37.4 weeks .
and my rainbow baby, Isobella Mai ...born 1/12/2010 ! in profile...
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#9 of 40 Old 12-07-2008, 01:04 AM
 
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I am just waiting now, I'm about 5 days past ovulation or so, so we'll see. I'll probably start testing about 10dpo (I get teased by DP about peeing on sticks all the time, lol) and see what's up. We shall see...
I don't know how you haven't already POAS. The suspense drives me crazy!

Momma to DD (12/04) hearts.gif and DS (11/09) hbac.gif.
I survived 16 mos! Ask me about breastfeeding a baby with posterior tongue tie, high palate, and weak oral motor skills- whew!

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#10 of 40 Old 12-07-2008, 01:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well I didn't think it would show up THIS early lol :P

I am going to be STRONG and not pee on a stick until next Wednesday.

Okay....umm...perhaps I am lying....but heh...we'll see *grins*

Mama to Josie , lost 10/10/08 at 37.4 weeks .
and my rainbow baby, Isobella Mai ...born 1/12/2010 ! in profile...
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#11 of 40 Old 12-07-2008, 08:00 AM
 
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JayJay I read your birth story on VJ...I'm so sorry for your loss and I'm glad to see that you are healing and trying again.

I had a c/s with DS and never really got over it. I wanted to be pregnant again just to have that birth experience. I have read some articles that said that the scar is as strong as it will ever be after only 6 weeks. Then again, I read articles that suggested to wait at least 8 or 9 months. I got pregnant with DD 8 months after DS was born so my babies are 17 months apart and I had a successful VBAC after all.

I'm wishing you all the best and hope for you that you can hold your baby soon.

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#12 of 40 Old 12-10-2008, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay, we're good this month! I am kind of relieved actually. Now if I conceive next month it'll be three months out, and I'm not really worried about the VBAC opportunity then - it shouldn't be too much of an issue any more compared to this month. Thanks for all the replies gals *hugs* XXXXX

Mama to Josie , lost 10/10/08 at 37.4 weeks .
and my rainbow baby, Isobella Mai ...born 1/12/2010 ! in profile...
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#13 of 40 Old 12-11-2008, 03:32 PM
 
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There is a mom here on MDC who lost her son in November, then birthed her second son UBAC in her bathtub the next October. It's not impossible. I can send you to her website where she tells her birth stories if you want.

knit.gifWife to Ageek.gif since 7-7-2006, Mother to Mnocirc.gif since 11-23-2007ribboncesarean.gif, and N slinggirl.gifborn on 4-9-2010vbac.gif
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#14 of 40 Old 12-11-2008, 11:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, I think I know who you mean, and she's SO inspiring! She had a really empowering next birth and it is she among a few, who I am taking as an inspiration for next time. I am so hoping to gather a few more stories like hers as well. I don't know her website though - could you link me to it? I think also she had a really awful experience (putting it mildly...) with the c section and the OB the first time around, if I remember correctly?

Anyhow I will keep you guys updated as to what our progress is.. *hugs to all* XXX

Mama to Josie , lost 10/10/08 at 37.4 weeks .
and my rainbow baby, Isobella Mai ...born 1/12/2010 ! in profile...
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#15 of 40 Old 12-12-2008, 02:03 AM
 
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I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

While I understand that your question is a VBAC question, I think that's something that while the generalrule is 18 months between births, there are some toher considerations to take into affect with close pregnancies as well, and that is prematurity. there is a higher rate of prematurity and other pregnancy complications with back to back pregnancies. I mention this because I got pregnant with one daughter when my previous was only 6 months old. I healed great, felt fine, etc. but my second daughter was born at 27 weeks with no "real" reason. Deep down, I think my body just was not able to handle the back to back pregnancy. So, putting the VBAC risks aside I'd also do some soul searching on the other risks of pregnancies close together.
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#16 of 40 Old 12-14-2008, 02:45 PM
 
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Hi JayJay
I'm so sorry to hear about your beautiful baby girl's death and also about your feelings about her CS birth. I've had two CS and then a VBA2C, so I know something about how you feel about the birth.

I live in the UK where we don't have the same maternity care provider issues that you do so women here with small intervals between pgs can opt for a HBAC or a hospital VBAC regardless of the gap and expect to get decent care. I know some women on a UK vbac forum who have had 3 mths between pgs and had successful VBACs (or another emcs without a rupture.) My reading suggests that at 3 mths the major healing is done.

As your daughter is not here on the earth your body may be at a different stage of healing to a woman who is for example, nursing. Is it worth speaking to a midwife to see if she would take you on with a 3 mth gap for a VBAC?
Would you be thinking of home or hospital?

I do so hope your next pregnancy will be everything you dream of - straightforward with a triumphant VBAC and a baby who can come home. A very good friend of mine had a VBA2C in October (I was her birth partner) and sadly her little girl died too. I don't know the pain of losing a baby but I see some of her pain and know that I so hope she gets to bring another baby home when the time is right. I hope the same for you.

Good luck mama, and keep us posted.
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#17 of 40 Old 12-14-2008, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I actually emigrated from the UK about 4 years ago and boy, do I miss the NHS!

It's very hard to explain to those who haven't been through it quite what it is like going through an entire pregnancy, and then not bringing a child home at the end. Even if you do everything "right" - this still happens on occasion. I can see why people would want larger gaps between their children, but at the same time, waiting a year to conceive simply isn't something I want to do. I realize risks of all sorts of things are elevated with me just because I've had a placental abruption and a c section, but at the same time, having done a lot of research, I know the risks are still very small, and with a sensible, non-stressful job this time around, I feel confident of a decent outcome. I have to - I've already lost a child and there will always be that fear in the back of my mind, no matter when I get pregnant again. It's very, very hard to comprehend when you've been through a pregnancy to then be left with no child at all at the end of it, and I can say with utter certainty that the longing for another child is enormous - more so than if I'd actually been able to bring my child home. Psychologically, waiting a year or more simply isn't going to be an option, and I do understand if others don't get that - how could they? I'd never wish this on anyone - I'd rather be misunderstood than have anyone else go through this.

If I do conceive next time around, it'll be three months out - that's fine with me. On the other hand, it may take a lot longer - but having that hope of bringing new life is enormous for our family as a whole, especially Harry, who's now lost two little girls. One of them was in 2000 with his ex, and she'd waited years between pregnancies and unfortunately still lost her little one to a totally unexplained PROM at 23 weeks or so. There are just no guarantees...

Having said that I know that I have to approach any new pregnancy with optimism and continue eating sensibly and behaving sensibly, as I have been. With that in mind, I do feel it will turn out well - thinking anything else I think would be counterproductive. **HUGE hugs to all* XXX

Mama to Josie , lost 10/10/08 at 37.4 weeks .
and my rainbow baby, Isobella Mai ...born 1/12/2010 ! in profile...
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#18 of 40 Old 12-14-2008, 06:21 PM
 
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I actually emigrated from the UK about 4 years ago and boy, do I miss the NHS!

It's very hard to explain to those who haven't been through it quite what it is like going through an entire pregnancy, and then not bringing a child home at the end. Even if you do everything "right" - this still happens on occasion. I can see why people would want larger gaps between their children, but at the same time, waiting a year to conceive simply isn't something I want to do. **HUGE hugs to all* XXX
Huge hugs to you too JayJay. I haven't walked in your shoes but even though I only have the theory to go on, I can see the longing is massive and uncontrollable. I am sure that when the time is right your rainbow baby will come to you. When you have had a loss as you have (and as I saw with my dear friend's little one 2 months ago) you see how fragile life is, how little we can control. She did everything righ - could not have done any more right - but still her baby is not here. All you can do is conceive and look after yourself and let yourself be looked after by those who love you. I truly hope it all works out for you both a baby and the birth you would like.
Please let us know how things go.
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#19 of 40 Old 12-14-2008, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh, thank you so much Patrick's Mum! *hugs*

I will definitely let you know how everything goes - I'll post it right here XXX

Mama to Josie , lost 10/10/08 at 37.4 weeks .
and my rainbow baby, Isobella Mai ...born 1/12/2010 ! in profile...
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I will keep an eye on this forum to read your news as and when it happens!
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#21 of 40 Old 12-15-2008, 09:25 PM
 
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Keeping an eye on this thread :

Emily, WOHM to Joshua (05) River (08) HBAC,  Rylee (09) HBAC and Levi (coming 8/11) planning another HBAC 

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#22 of 40 Old 12-17-2008, 06:54 PM
 
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just wanted to pass along that my OB told me that it didn't matter how long had passed between cesareans that you were as healed in 6 weeks as you'd ever be! He takes VBACs no matter how much space is between them.

Hugs and prayers your way! God bless you, you are such a strong woman. I have faith that you will get your beautiful, vaginal, natural birth soon!!!!
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#23 of 40 Old 01-02-2009, 02:17 AM
 
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I am so, so, so sorry for your loss. I hope that you will be blessed with other children, but I know you will always love your Josie. Good luck.

Proud Army wife and Momma of two.
Jay-my precious boy 2/20/08 & Caroline-my beautiful HBAC baby 8/22/09 :
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#24 of 40 Old 01-02-2009, 02:21 AM
 
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just wanted to pass along that my OB told me that it didn't matter how long had passed between cesareans that you were as healed in 6 weeks as you'd ever be!
I find that hard to believe- only 6 weeks? It took months and months until I no longer felt sharp twinges in my abdomen/uterus. I bet he was trying to "sell" the surgery w/ a quick and easy recovery (to downplay it's severity).

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#25 of 40 Old 01-02-2009, 03:44 PM
 
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you know now that I think about it you are probably right...but he doesn't decline VBACs no matter what the length between surgery and pregnancy. My former OB was much different and put a lot of pressure on me during my VBAC with my son who was 16 months apart from my daughter (primary cesarean). Anyway, my current OB (the one that is pro VBAC), will let you VBA2C or probably more. I wonder sometimes why he is so different.
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#26 of 40 Old 01-02-2009, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I am now...oooohh....13 weeks out - so three months, and we shall see if this is my cycle or not. It's better than 7 weeks though! 13 weeks - well, I feel good

No twinges - occasional itchiness but I am going to expect that. Also I have all my feeling back - I can feel even on my scar. I'm totally able to bed, stretch, lift etc as I was beforehand, my muscles are back where they're supposed to be as well. It's pink, but ey, that's normal - my scars take a while to turn white an I wouldn't expect that before a year anyway. In all I feel good. Ovulation this month was nice and painful! If you couldn't see my scar, you probably wouldn't even be able to tell I'd ever been pregnant...

I am very ready to be pregnant again. I hope that the section didn't hinder anything in me, you know? I've not heard that c sections definitavely stop fertility, and I know there are other moms out there who've been able to get pregnant after a c section - many, in fact. So, I hope my fertility hasn't been knocked or anything. of course, after something like this, I expect it's pretty common to worry about things like that - you know - being able to be pregnant again, versus Josie having been my only chance...

I'll wait longer between my next and the one after that - well, you know, if everything goes to plan, I'll be nursing a babe and spending lots of time with him or her.

I think I will go research c section an subsequent pregnancy just to reassure myself that being pregnant again is possible and that my fallopian tubes weren't accidentally cut or anything crazy like that (okay, call me nuts, but I do wonder, not being able to see inside my body or anything - you know!)

*hugs* to all XX

Mama to Josie , lost 10/10/08 at 37.4 weeks .
and my rainbow baby, Isobella Mai ...born 1/12/2010 ! in profile...
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#27 of 40 Old 01-02-2009, 03:55 PM
 
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Anyway, my current OB (the one that is pro VBAC), will let you VBA2C or probably more. I wonder sometimes why he is so different.
I have found that a large percentage of OB's are "pro-VBAC", but then I wonder why there isn't a higher VBAC or VBA2C rate. Do most truely believe in them or is it just lip service, kwim? I wish the stats were known.

I just had my yearly exam and question the NP on the OB practice VBAC policy. She said they welcome them, as long as the reason for the first c/s wasn't failure to progress. Then my mind went wild and I thought about questioning more, but decided not to because I've become a cynic recently. Would they tell me one thing and do another when it comes to the end?

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#28 of 40 Old 01-02-2009, 03:59 PM
 
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I hope that the section didn't hinder anything in me, you know? I've not heard that c sections definitavely stop fertility, and I know there are other moms out there who've been able to get pregnant after a c section - many, in fact.
I hope not either! I wonder was the infertility caused by physiological, physical, or phychological problem?

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#29 of 40 Old 01-02-2009, 04:04 PM
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Okay....my kids are older so I'm kind of out of the birthing loop.

My understanding is that when a cesarean is done for emergency reasons, the uterus is cut vertically instead of horizontally (because it's easier to get the baby out that way). I've always been told that OB's won't accept a VBAC if your womb was cut that way. Even if you were cut horizontally through your skin, there's a possibility that your actual uterus was cut vertically.

Maybe this is no longer the case, but my OB would not have accepted me for VBAC if I couldn't produce records showing that my uterus was cut horizontally. I also used to work as a medical assistant in an OB office, and that was procedure there, as well.
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#30 of 40 Old 01-02-2009, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by ShwarmaQueen View Post
I hope not either! I wonder was the infertility caused by physiological, physical, or phychological problem?
Who knows...there is a lot to be said for the communication between oneself and one's body though - that much I know, because together with vitamins I practically willed myself into healing. So much so that at 5 weeks PP by OB actually raised her eyebrows when she felt the position of my uterus. My midwife said I'd healed almost as quickly as a regularly birthing, breastfeeding mother and I think under my circumstances, that was awfully quick. But good - I wanted to heal.

I try to "talk" to my uterus regularly - you know, telling it everything is alright and that it can conceive again. Nevertheless, I guess I am suffering from some after effects psychologically because I still wonder whether or not the surgery "broke" me physically. It certainly broke my heart all by itself.

I wonder though if that isn't a very common feeling among people who've been through a c section, and that it doesn't really dissipate until they prove to themselves that they've got the ability to be pregnant and give birth again by actually being pregnant, and giving birth!

For now, we're timing BD'ing, I'm taking my vitamins, I seem to be producing fertile CM - more slippery than EW but it's there. Plus I am ovulating for sure, and previously, my luteal phases were always 15 days long. The last luteal phase was 7 days (actually possibly a few more because I may have ovulated slightly earlier than FF gave me credit for) but again, I hear that a short luteal phase following birth of any kind isn't exactly uncommon.

I'd love to hear from anyone regarding similar situations - or just getting pregnant after a c section, you know? Or any advice at all actually.

Mama to Josie , lost 10/10/08 at 37.4 weeks .
and my rainbow baby, Isobella Mai ...born 1/12/2010 ! in profile...
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