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#1 of 27 Old 07-29-2009, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yesterday I went for an ultrasound in order to determine baby's position.
I'm at 38.3 weeks. It started off well. Baby looks healthy. Head was down for most of the ultrasound, then he flipped into a transverse position. Doctor recommended an immediate induction and c-section. I'm hoping for a VBAC.

I am told that I have a lot of amniotic fluid and therefore the baby is unstable and flips around a lot. He may not get into optimal position for birth, and even if he does, he may not stay there. Yesterday, when I had the non-stress test down, the nurse commented that the baby's head was down.

I put my foot down and refused induction. Has anyone been through this? Has anyone had a natural childbirth, or VBAC in the incidence of an unstable lie?
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#2 of 27 Old 07-29-2009, 10:26 AM
 
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OK, I'm not an expert, but even if the baby were to stay in a transverse position, why not wait until labor begins to see if he flips head down before jumping into a repeat c section?

I think you did the right thing .

Leeann, mama to 3*magic*kids: DD 1/03 DD 9/04 DS 8/06
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#3 of 27 Old 07-29-2009, 10:35 AM
 
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All babies are in and "unstable lie" lol, they are constantly moving around, flipping etc. They generally do get back into position just before labor begins, sometimes they don't and you just have to learn the positions to get baby to flip the right way... DD was transverse my whole ph and even when labor began, it wasn't until she finally flipped after walking, hip swaying, getting on all fours that labor finally progressed. But I did it by myself at home and that's where she was born, intentionally, she was my first UC and that was an amazing experience! Though that's another story lol...

There are some sites to check out to get baby to adjust... the only one I know is babyspinning.com but when I had checked it out when pg with dd it was under construction or something and I couldn't figure out what they were sayin to do so I just got in all kinds of positions.

My opinion about why baby moved had more to do with the ultrasound, I used to love those but read up on some research and chose against it this pg, I got a couple quickies with dd since she was my first UC and felt a burning sensation in the spot they were lookin at, I rememberd that with ds as well and got me thinking if it burns me what about baby, ever wonder why they are moving all of a sudden when you start and ultrasound? Anyways, that's just my opinion...

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#4 of 27 Old 07-29-2009, 11:02 AM
 
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My opinion about why baby moved had more to do with the ultrasound, I used to love those but read up on some research and chose against it this pg, I got a couple quickies with dd since she was my first UC and felt a burning sensation in the spot they were lookin at, I rememberd that with ds as well and got me thinking if it burns me what about baby, ever wonder why they are moving all of a sudden when you start and ultrasound? Anyways, that's just my opinion...


If doc stops poking around with a stressful US device, probably baby will stop trying to get away from it with awkward (transverse) positions.

I can't see how a basic TOL is any risk to the baby even IF baby does not ultimately end up well positioned for birth.

Homeschooling mama to 6 year old DD.

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#5 of 27 Old 07-29-2009, 11:03 AM
 
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Oh, and I'm sorry, recommending immediate induction when baby JUST MOVED TO A NON-OPTIMAL POSITION is beyond dumb. It's a purposeful setup for surgery.

Homeschooling mama to 6 year old DD.

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#6 of 27 Old 07-29-2009, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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WHAT'S A uc?
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#7 of 27 Old 07-29-2009, 12:12 PM
 
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.

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#8 of 27 Old 07-29-2009, 07:34 PM
 
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Oh, and I'm sorry, recommending immediate induction when baby JUST MOVED TO A NON-OPTIMAL POSITION is beyond dumb. It's a purposeful setup for surgery.
yeah that. I've always read that you NEVER induce with a transverse lie due to risk of cord prolapse.

If the baby's not in a great position, then try a version.

Stinkerton 12/10/01 9lbs8oz, induced to c/s; Little Man 5/20/03 7lbs11oz, r c/s, fear of another labor; Jillybean 11/18/07 10lbs8oz 37cm head, induced VBA2C; and the Wee Beastie, 9lbs8oz, 35cm head, rpt VBA2C
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#9 of 27 Old 07-29-2009, 09:56 PM
 
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So you have a lot of fluid. It makes sense then, since obviously the baby isn't engaged, that it can move around. Actually, I'm in a similar situation. My vertex baby B flipped breech during a long u/s where I was on my BACK almost the entire time. : And she's really enjoying staying breech, but she moves a lot, and her head position is all over the place.

Anyway, back to you . . .
It is REALLY not a good idea to induce a VBAC. According to Dr. Marsden Wagner, this alone increases the UR risk from 1 in 200 (non medicated VBAC) to 1 in 43.

Your baby will head back down when it's ready to be born. It doesn't sound like your baby is ready to go yet, and well, a failed induction is a SURE way to end up with a repeat cesarean.

Hang in there!!!!!

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DD 2004; 3 angel1.gif babies 2007-08; rainbow1284.gif twin DDs 2009; DD 7/12/11 hospital uhoh3.gif VBAC bouncy.gifafter 2 cesareans!

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#10 of 27 Old 07-29-2009, 11:43 PM
 
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A VBAC should NEVER be induced!!!!
I would question ANY Doctor that would suggest an induction for a VBAC because of the high risks!!!

Keep refusing the induction, this baby will come when he is ready!

Camden born via Unnecesarean 2007 Benjamin CBAC after 26 hour VBAC attempt 2009
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#11 of 27 Old 07-30-2009, 06:01 PM
 
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Unassisted Childbirth.

No medical or birth professionals present.
Hey I'm a professional... well sorta, I mean I already had one kid it's not like they start comin out of different places or anything... unless of course you're in the hospital

Nichole, wife to Kris SAHM to Timothy : :10-11-03, Hosanna , Seraphim 8-17-08 : caught by Grandma! Faith 1-4-10 : Caught by Daddy!
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#12 of 27 Old 07-31-2009, 01:04 AM
 
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yeah, what they said!!
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#13 of 27 Old 08-01-2009, 06:24 PM
 
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vbacs can be induced, it is only with prostaglandins that the risk of UR skyrockets. with a good bishop score a vbac induction with foley cath/pitocin is usually considered acceptable.

now, I wouldn't induce or go right to c/s for an "unstable lie" at 38 weeks. just means baby isn't engaged yet.

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#14 of 27 Old 08-01-2009, 07:28 PM
 
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anyways, baby has not been born yet, i feel he's (the baby) doing well. husband came with me to last check up and told doctor he wants to rely on something he always has and that's his intuition which tells him that nothing is wrong. my doctor tried to get us to promise that we'd come up we a date that we say 'uncle' and agree to a ceaserean on august 8th - my actual due date. and we just said we'll cross that bridge when and if we get there.

so, i'm feeling strong, proud of myself for taking back control of the pregnancy, and wishing and hoping and praying and meditating for a smooth and natural childbirth.
Good for you. And GOOD for your husband!!

Hmm, Christine. I'd probably try the "natural" ways to induce and then do the foley cath... but still I don't feel good about using pitocin on a VBAC mom. What makes you think differently?

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DD 2004; 3 angel1.gif babies 2007-08; rainbow1284.gif twin DDs 2009; DD 7/12/11 hospital uhoh3.gif VBAC bouncy.gifafter 2 cesareans!

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#15 of 27 Old 08-01-2009, 11:07 PM
 
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the studies I've looked at show that while pitocin does increase the incidence of UR, it is not nearly as much as with prostaglandins. the dosage also factors into the risk.

I know plenty of moms with good bishop scores who've had pitocin induced/augmented vbacs (generally for gestation >42 weeks or PROM >24 hours). I think it should be up to the provider and patient to decide what risk level is acceptable.

Christine, mom to C(7.5) - E(5) - J(3) - B(10 mos)

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#16 of 27 Old 08-01-2009, 11:40 PM
 
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It's too early to talk about induction, RCS, or anything else. Stop messing with the baby and see what happens. At 41weeks, perhaps talk about it again. Cutting a baby out at 38 weeks with no signs of labor and an unstable lie is a recipe for prematurity. If the baby's still flipping around, s/he isn't ready to come out yet.

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#17 of 27 Old 08-02-2009, 05:46 AM
 
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THis is so silly. There is lots of time for the baby to flip again. I take it they would freak out about a breech birth?

 I like the mind to be a dustbin of scraps of brilliant fabric, odd gems, worthless but fascinating curiosities, tinsel, quaint bits of carving, and a reasonable amount of healthy dirt.
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#18 of 27 Old 08-03-2009, 12:42 AM
 
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Yeah, I agree that providers and their patients need to have that discussion in very specific situations. Honestly, I don't know what I'll do if I go to term or beyond... like I said previously, Marsden Wagner claims that a pitocin INDUCTION increases the risk of UR from 1 in 200 to 1 in 43!

Jen from VBAC Facts typed it up HERE.

BLUEGOAT, it seems like in most places breech is dealt with surgically.

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#19 of 27 Old 08-03-2009, 02:10 AM
 
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"SOURCES: Estimates are all conservative and based on data from the
CDC, ACOG, and two papers:"

there are many more studies out there though, that's not exactly a cochrane meta analysis or anything. I like Wagner (and jen) but I think there's a bigger pool of data to be drawn from.

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#20 of 27 Old 08-03-2009, 02:15 AM
 
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THis is so silly. There is lots of time for the baby to flip again. I take it they would freak out about a breech birth?
Yes, but the OP appears to be in Canada where the SOGC recently clarified its position on breech to theoretically give the mother more choice in the matter...haven't exactly heard of a run on vaginal breech birth here, yet, but it theoretically *could* happen...

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#21 of 27 Old 08-04-2009, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It's too early to talk about induction, RCS, or anything else. Stop messing with the baby and see what happens. At 41weeks, perhaps talk about it again. Cutting a baby out at 38 weeks with no signs of labor and an unstable lie is a recipe for prematurity. If the baby's still flipping around, s/he isn't ready to come out yet.

Today I went for another ultrasound, baby has stabilized, his head is down and engaged and everything is fine. Dr. still tried to get me to agree to a ceaserean if he isn't born by August 12th, that would be like 3 days past due.
She tried to get me to believe that my due date was August 2nd, and she doesn't know who changed it to August 8th, when she was the one who changed it. I said that if I need a C- section, I can always get one and I don't need to decide today, she said "yes I do". As if this hospital which is rated to be the best in Canada especially for neo-natal care, won't have a doctor who will do a c-section if it turns out I need one. I called the office back and spoke with the nurse who told me not to worry about it, she isn't booking me for any ceaserean, I should be fine considering baby is healthy and my c-section last time was a low bikini line cut. I can't believe such esteemed qualified professionals can be so out of touch with reality really.
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#22 of 27 Old 08-04-2009, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, but the OP appears to be in Canada where the SOGC recently clarified its position on breech to theoretically give the mother more choice in the matter...haven't exactly heard of a run on vaginal breech birth here, yet, but it theoretically *could* happen...
my husband was three weeks past due, an unstable lie and was delivered naturally while he was in a breech position.
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#23 of 27 Old 08-05-2009, 01:31 AM
 
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I'm glad he flipped back down, but yeah...that doctor would scare the heck out of me. Be strong! I'm glad your dh is on your side too

As for induction with a VBAC, I'd avoid pit if at all possible...just being in a position of having labored naturally twice and having two pit inductions, with no pain meds...the pit contractions are sooooo much stronger, much earlier on. It felt like transition when I was only 3cm's. That cant be good on a scar imo...

Of course, if it came down to RCS and induction, I'd probably try to induce regardless. I'm so scared of another cesarean

Cari-mama to Eriq, Lile, Paikea, Kaidyn, and Mieke is here!! 2/9/10
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#24 of 27 Old 08-05-2009, 01:51 AM
 
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Ugh....there is no reason whatsoever to go to a c/s simply for being at 40+ weeks. Even the ACOG doesn't recommend a c/s for a VBAC just for that (I know you're in Canada but I don't know the SOGC's position).

Stay strong, Mama!!! I've been in the same position so I understand how extremely frustrating it is. I just kept saying "no" which pissed the OBs off to no end but the problem was theirs and they couldn't do a thing about it. I'm praying for ya!

- Kim
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#25 of 27 Old 08-05-2009, 03:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, but the OP appears to be in Canada where the SOGC recently clarified its position on breech to theoretically give the mother more choice in the matter...haven't exactly heard of a run on vaginal breech birth here, yet, but it theoretically *could* happen...
it was the ultrasound dr. who talked of induction, not my regular doctor, who realized that 1st doctor hadn't taken my medical history. as soon as she heard i already had had a ceaserean she told me that they never induce a woman who has had a ceaserean, it would be straight to surgery.

anyways, baby has not been born yet, i feel he's (the baby) doing well. husband came with me to last check up and told doctor he wants to rely on something he always has and that's his intuition which tells him that nothing is wrong. my doctor tried to get us to promise that we'd come up we a date that we say 'uncle' and agree to a ceaserean on august 8th - my actual due date. and we just said we'll cross that bridge when and if we get there.

so, i'm feeling strong, proud of myself for taking back control of the pregnancy, and wishing and hoping and praying and meditating for a smooth and natural childbirth.
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#26 of 27 Old 08-05-2009, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ugh....there is no reason whatsoever to go to a c/s simply for being at 40+ weeks. Even the ACOG doesn't recommend a c/s for a VBAC just for that (I know you're in Canada but I don't know the SOGC's position).

Stay strong, Mama!!! I've been in the same position so I understand how extremely frustrating it is. I just kept saying "no" which pissed the OBs off to no end but the problem was theirs and they couldn't do a thing about it. I'm praying for ya!

Thank you I could use the prayers.
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#27 of 27 Old 08-07-2009, 09:13 PM
 
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My friend who had 3 sections has had a real bout with drs, especially those that change their tune at the last minute. I would DEF stand your ground, OTOH, I may be also looking at getting a different dr ASAP. My friend had to switch docs because the last one dropped her for not wanting to do the GD test, and transferred at 34 weeks. I had a dr tell me at 34 weeks that I would have to go in for a RCS because they hadn't received my records from the military. We had already discussed the Csection, and how we may not get the records, and he was SURE the scar was fine and all that. So, at 34 wks, he wants to refer me to an OB to do a RCS to look at the scar, and I could try for VBAC next time. !!!! My sister, who was a licensed RN but not practicing, got the records in 2 days!! I was SOOO glad it was a different dr in the practice that was on call that night. He got kicked out shortly after that.

Is there someone else that you could get that would give you less stress? Lots of babies aren't truly overdue, a day after their due date, or 3 weeks after. WTG for standing your ground. Kymberli
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