Best evidence for swaying a skeptical father? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 26 Old 07-31-2009, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have a good friend who is pregnant again and would like a VBAC. Her first was a CS for "failure to progress" aka failed induction. Her husband is against a VBAC. She really, really doesnt want another CS. What are some things I can suggest for him to read etc. I have said I would loan them a copy of BOBB. What else? Im not interested in the notion of her doing whatever she wants without his blessing as I know thier marriage is a partnership and I for one would never suggest someone do that. I am looking for helpful, user-friendly research etc. I told her to ask him to prove to her that ERCS is safer. She liked that idea :-)

Thanks!
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#2 of 26 Old 07-31-2009, 10:48 PM
 
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I would suggest that her husband pop's around the ICAN website, especially in the blog area, maybe find an ICAN meeting or chapter in her area also.
She also needs to remind him, it is not HIM having the MAJOR surgery, it is her, and if she does not wish to go through it, she shouldnt!

Camden born via Unnecesarean 2007 Benjamin CBAC after 26 hour VBAC attempt 2009
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#3 of 26 Old 08-01-2009, 01:16 AM
 
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How about the new study done by the CDC that babies are 3x mroe likely to die if they're born via c/s?

Stinkerton 12/10/01 9lbs8oz, induced to c/s; Little Man 5/20/03 7lbs11oz, r c/s, fear of another labor; Jillybean 11/18/07 10lbs8oz 37cm head, induced VBA2C; and the Wee Beastie, 9lbs8oz, 35cm head, rpt VBA2C
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#4 of 26 Old 08-01-2009, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Do you have a link to that study?

Thanks!
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#5 of 26 Old 08-01-2009, 03:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by busymama7 View Post
Do you have a link to that study?

Thanks!
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...al.html?cat=25

Camden born via Unnecesarean 2007 Benjamin CBAC after 26 hour VBAC attempt 2009
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#6 of 26 Old 08-01-2009, 05:10 PM
 
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Ina May's Guide to Childbirth has an entire section on why VBAC is the best and when it's absolutely not possible.

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#7 of 26 Old 08-01-2009, 07:23 PM
 
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How about the new study done by the CDC that babies are 3x mroe likely to die if they're born via c/s?
And moms are 4x more likely to die from c/s complications.

Childbirth Connection is an EVIDENCE-BASED organization with a very "rational" presentation of material that would probably appeal to a man. There's all kinds of stuff about VBAC vs. ERCS there.
http://www.childbirthconnection.com

I am a member of ICAN, a chapter leader, in fact, but find that organization to be more helpful for and appealing to women than men. JMO.

I echo the sentiment that HE is asking her to go through MAJOR SURGERY... AGAIN... for a physiologigical event. One thing that tends to make an impact too is the fact that the risk of UR in a non-induced, non-augmented VBAC is only slightly higher than the risk ALL LABORING WOMEN have for UR. Also, there are common tests and interventions, like amnio, that docs recommend that have mortality/morbidity risks that equal or exceed the risk for rupture in a VBAC.

He needs to do his research before he asks his wife to submit to MAJOR SURGERY and a hugely over-used surgical procedure. The World Health Organization recommends a c/s rate around 10% with 15% having been deemed the upper limit of reasonable. Beyond that, the risks outweigh the benefits. 31.8% (our national avg) is irresponsible, and many hospitals have rates WAY WAY over that.

Kimberly, mom & wife - blogging.jpg about pregnancy and birth
DD 2004; 3 angel1.gif babies 2007-08; rainbow1284.gif twin DDs 2009; DD 7/12/11 hospital uhoh3.gif VBAC bouncy.gifafter 2 cesareans!

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#8 of 26 Old 08-01-2009, 11:06 PM
 
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I really enjoyed the book "Pushed" by Jennifer Block. I checked it out from my local library and it has great stories and lots of statistics in it.

Cat (30) DH (30) Carissa Grace born 11/3/07 via c/s after fetal distress. Sophia Claire born 10/9/09 VBAC!
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#9 of 26 Old 08-03-2009, 04:03 PM
 
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#10 of 26 Old 08-03-2009, 04:15 PM
 
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Here is some info about choosing c-sections. Hopefully the links still work but mom might want to get a copy of Marden Wagner's Born in the USA; How a Broken Maternity System Must Be Fixed to Put Women and Children First. She can read pertinent passages to her dh.

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ICAN of New Jersey --> find 2010 NJ hospital birth stats here!

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#11 of 26 Old 08-03-2009, 05:35 PM
 
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Here is some darn good info. http://vbac.com/chapter38.html

step-mommy to babygirl.gif (11), mommy to babyboy.gif (5), babyboy.gif (3) vbac.gif babygirl.gif (0) vbac.gif

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#12 of 26 Old 08-04-2009, 12:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMommy View Post
thanks. I've been moving and off the computer since Friday.

Stinkerton 12/10/01 9lbs8oz, induced to c/s; Little Man 5/20/03 7lbs11oz, r c/s, fear of another labor; Jillybean 11/18/07 10lbs8oz 37cm head, induced VBA2C; and the Wee Beastie, 9lbs8oz, 35cm head, rpt VBA2C
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#13 of 26 Old 08-13-2009, 01:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by catspage View Post
I really enjoyed the book "Pushed" by Jennifer Block. I checked it out from my local library and it has great stories and lots of statistics in it.

YES!!!!

And how about (not to sound harsh but...) HIM having the unnecessary major surgery for no reason! It's a huge deal to have them cut into you like that, and once you have 2 c/s, the difficulty in ever having a normal, natural birth skyrockets (believe me, I'm there right now!).

She needs to tell him how important it is for her to experience childbirth the way nature intended it and he needs to trust her that she knows her own body and support her. I can not even imagine if my DP didn't support my decision to VBA2C this time. I don't even think I could be with someone who refused to consider my decision to refuse an *elective* surgery!

Kaiti, in heartbeat.gif with Shane, astrological mama to spitdrink.gif Sophie *12.27.05*, praying.gif Maya *09.25.07*, sleepytime.gif Phoenix *08.23.09* & 3rdtri.gif due *12.04.11*  Having a hbac.gif waterbirth.jpg lotbirth.gif after 3 cesareans!

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#14 of 26 Old 08-14-2009, 02:39 PM
 
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This could be a difficult topic for a marriage, I know I was there. My husband was not for the VBAC, yet he would not be able to give me any reasons except that ``the drs. know better" (ha-ha), and that's why they recommend a repeat C-section. He did not do any research on his own, but he did read the paragraphs and articles I showed him. What saved the day was the fact that he recognized that this should be more my decision than his since it is my body, and the fact that I was decided to do it entirely on my own (which I pretty much did). I had a very easy labor, when I felt it was time to push a friend drove me *very* fast to the hospital where after 20 minutes I gave birth to my daughter. My husband made it to the hospital in time (he had to stay home and wait for the babysitter), but he could not look . He is just squeamish and in the end I accept that because I recognize all the wonderful things that he offers as a husband and father. Birthing is something that I have to do

Mom to DS (04) , DD ( 07) , DS ( 09)
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#15 of 26 Old 08-14-2009, 05:24 PM
 
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My husband really liked Pushed. I think he would have been supportive anyway, but that book actually got him fired up about the whole thing.

Blair, mom to the amazing Nora (8/06) ribboncesarean.gif, sweet Anneliese (2/10) vbac.gif, and super Henry (8/12) vbac.gif

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#16 of 26 Old 08-14-2009, 06:10 PM
 
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You have a greater chance of dying from the c/s or complications thereof than a VBAC. That convinced my husband.

Momma to DD (12/04) hearts.gif and DS (11/09) hbac.gif.
I survived 16 mos! Ask me about breastfeeding a baby with posterior tongue tie, high palate, and weak oral motor skills- whew!

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#17 of 26 Old 08-15-2009, 02:16 AM
 
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Not to be crass, but if my DH had taken this stance (although he used to trust the drs more than he does now), I might have told him that if I had to go through major surgery again, without any indications that it was only to save mine or our baby's life, then he had to go first. He can get the vasectomy, and then I would consent to major surgery. No way I would want to do a 3rd csection, so he can take care of that part. Many husbands would rather send their wives off to do the tubal rather than maim their own bodies. So, I am sure he would have decided that we could give that VBAC a shot. Of course, that could backfire, because the friend's DH might be willing to call her bluff.

NOT my husband though, he would NEVER consider that. He won't even CONSIDER doing the colon cancer check when he gets to that age. And, I actually brought that up to him, since he isn't totally a UC fan, but he tolerates it because he trusts me. That why is it that I am suppose to let other people put their fingers in my private parts, look at my privates, and invade my privacy over and over, yet he can't have ONE rectal exam every five years? I think he understands a whole lot more. Kymberli
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#18 of 26 Old 08-15-2009, 09:30 AM
 
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#19 of 26 Old 08-24-2009, 06:42 PM
 
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My husband is the type that doesn't believe books or anything else I have read. He believes people that know what they are doing. So find someone that knows what they are doing and let them convince him. For example, with our first he thought that babies should get cereal early. He had cereal when he came home from the hospital because he was a bigggg baby (picture puffed out chest and MANLY voice LOL). When we heard the LC at our hospital talk, he totally changed his mind and was all for waiting until 6 months for solids. Find that dr or midwife that will be attending your VBAC and let him to talk them. If you are UCing you might still want to find someone to talk with him.
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#20 of 26 Old 10-06-2009, 12:38 AM
 
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Don't know if this will help since my birth wasn't a VBAC...

I had my daughter at a birth center. DH, however was dead set against it at first because back in the mid 70's, his mom's first baby (a little girl) died at one. He yelled. He screamed. He even said he would refuse to drive me there. "Why can't we do it at a hospital like everyone else?"

I stood my ground and told him "Yes, I know it's your baby too, but I'm the one giving birth. What are you going to do, drag me into the hospital in labor? This is my decision and oh, I checked into your mom's case. Did those midwives have ANY certification at all?"

"No..."

"Right," I continued, "because that was before midwives and birth centers started getting regulated. You told me that she died because she needed a shot of oxygen and they didn't carry carry it, right?"

"Yeah, but.."

"DH, even home health care aides carry oxygen with them. Those people weren't even health care professionals and that wasn't a birth center. This one is. Oh, and the difference between where I want to go and the hospital is, uh, 500 FEET."

So DH reluctantly gave in. Was I bullheaded? Yes. Did I have any sense of tact? No. Did the experience of our daughter's birth eventually win him over? Thankfully, yes.

But yeah, willfullness has worked for me so far. The vasectomy card, that sounds like a good one too, haha.
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#21 of 26 Old 10-10-2009, 11:13 PM
 
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Wow- what a hard topic and so much great advice has been given! My husband was skeptical but he came around when he saw how much I meant it. I was constantly researching and reading. Husbands do love their wives and want what is best for them. I would think that a good reading of risks of c/s to mom and baby might help. Also, she should consider having him come to an ob appt and also a midwife appt. There is tons of difference and he will likely appreciate how he is needed at one type of birth and notice how he is not needed at the other type of birth. If it is the fear factor or peer pressure (neighbors, family and church members talked to my hubby) then it needs to be confronted head on. Neither of us knew anything at c/s #2 and he was compassionate but not completely supportive at c/s 3 and 4 because of the fear, but he saw how I suffered (even if he can't know the whole of it, he still saw in part). At my last attempt he did know however that I was relying upon him to save me from the wolves- whomever they may have been. He was incredible!!! Even though I didn't vbac, I still have fond memories of the way he took care of me, the way I needed to be take care of, according to me. These memories have done much to help me in my recovery. That bond is so much more important than the rest, her husband needs to know that too. My husband knew after several years and then months before of research that stats were in my favor. Many men need time for an idea to sink in, sometimes it is best not to push the issue forcefully at first but to let them get their mind around it, in small bits and pieces so they can process. Mom has all of the feelings inside her and it is nearly impossible to get at them all, much less rationally process and then relay them to someone else, especially if that person is in any way opposed to the idea. It's not going to be easy to convince him but I recommend openness and vulnerability. Paint him the picture of protector and keeper and he'll step up to the plate. That and keep him away from the fear mongers until he's convinced. Are there any other men who could talk to him about it? Sometimes it is the power of the second person that helps. If all else fails, have him swap surgeries. I don't recommend the v but what about a random hernia surgery (unneeded of course), appendectomy or knee surgery? Even present the idea to him that way- maybe he needs a category to see how odd it is to do a surgery that isn't needed. Such a hard subject, so sorry that she is having to convince anyone else too, especially her husband. If he remains skeptical, be sure she has the support at the birth that by rights is his but that she needs if he doesn't give it.
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#22 of 26 Old 10-11-2009, 02:26 PM
 
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I have to agree, this is one place where I would just outright refuse, IF I couldn't convince him otherwise. I'm lucky in that my fiance, who was pretty much clueless as far as birth/babies go, but all he has done is ask me about stuff, ask why, and pretty much go with it. It didn't even occur to him that they would do a repeat cesarean for NO other reason than because I had one before...he found that rather idiotic.

I do think it helped a bit going to the midwife first, then the OBs, it let him see the difference to some extent. He got rather annoyed at the OB as well-they read a report wrong, insisted that I was 2 weeks earlier than I was, and refused to even try to get a heartbeat-I was 11 weeks according to them, 13 according to me. This was after we went through hell trying to get a babysitter so he could go back-they didn't want 4 kids in the patient room.

Compared to the midwife, where the kids just play in the waiting room right outside the door and are free to come in and out of the patient room...yeah. He still left it up to me but basically said he actually prefered the midwife. Actually over the course of all of that, he got really excited at the prospect of a homebirth and possibly a UC! I couldn't believe it!

Anyway, I think most men would look at the statistics and say ok, you're right. I mean, even a trial of labor is better than no labor at all, even if it ends in a cesarean. It gets those hormones flowing.

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#23 of 26 Old 10-11-2009, 07:18 PM
 
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I don't call myself a feminist at all, but I am appalled at the reasoning that since a marriage is a "partnership" when there is a disagreement the wife defers to the man. That is absurd. She should feel every right to put her foot down, it's her body, her life and the life of her child.

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#24 of 26 Old 10-13-2009, 04:46 AM
 
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I don't call myself a feminist at all, but I am appalled at the reasoning that since a marriage is a "partnership" when there is a disagreement the wife defers to the man. That is absurd. She should feel every right to put her foot down, it's her body, her life and the life of her child.


I am all for being submissive to the husband, as the Bible tells us, but Jesus was a feminist. I do have a difficult time with the mandate in our Book, even though I believe in it, because that is just in my nature. But when it comes to birth, there is just not anything in the Bible that says that I must put my body to be sacrificed on the alter of male tyranny. Men can't give birth, women can. That simple. I think that the husband's have some right to have their say about the baby (moreso if she wants to abort), it is theirs too, but they have to defer to the woman's instinct and intution when it comes to birth and the giving of life in the safest way possible.

Before DH and I were married, we were expecting, and I was still nursing my son. Some girl at his work told him that by nursing, I was going to m/c. Actually, BFing extends the PG. But, not ever having a child or being married, he just got all frantic. So, he came to my parent's house to talk to me about this, and my sister started throwing all that submissiveness stuff in my face. Saying that even her LLL leaders wean their babies when they get PG. I assured him that it was okay, all was going to be fine, and we went on. He gives up easily on a fight, so I do have a difficult time balancing our roles. Later on, when the family dr wanted to refer me to an OB cause he was too lazy to get my records, to have a RCS JIC I had the wrong scar (which we both knew I didn't) at 34 wks, my DH said, "well, we will just go home and have the baby ourselves!" I went, "uhhh, whoa!!! I don't think so!" We got that straightened out, and had our 3rd baby together UC. LOL And, BTW, that first VBAC baby was 23 days LATE.

Kymberli
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#25 of 26 Old 10-14-2009, 05:32 PM
 
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If he is a reading person I would add to the list to read " Born in the USA: How a Broken Maternity System Must Be Fixed to Put Women and Children First" by Marsden Wagner.

Marsden Wagner also has some articles that are posted on line that are very good. Here is his bio on midwifery today.

oAlisha- eternal companion to mike:, mother to three energetic boys (02):, (05), and (07) and one sweet little girl 3/13.  Two in heaven.7/21/2010, 11/05/2011 mecry.gif.

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#26 of 26 Old 10-16-2009, 07:16 AM
 
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