Repeat C-sections and deaths? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 52 Old 06-18-2011, 11:59 AM
 
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There is a study that shows a 3 times higher death rate in the first year of life for babies from completely elective csects..with no troubles that led to the csects. There is also a higher rate of Autism. Those are two studies I have seen for sure.

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#32 of 52 Old 06-18-2011, 12:02 PM
 
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Last time, while I was pregnant, 4 women from these boards and that I knew in non-virtual life died from csects. The only baby I have ever known to die from uterine rupture was an initial birth and not a vbac. I have a lot of experience in that area as I did have a baby die years ago and I have been on both VBAC groups and then boards (when WWW was invented, yes, I am that old) and infant loss boards since 2000 and that is it for babies to die from uterine rupture. So I think I would know of more if it were something that ever really happened. Even if you google...death from vbac, you will find no stories of it online. You just find a bunch of people saying it can happen or it will happen. Sort of like how the martians can invade and kill all of us. It is a theory that seems to not be happening. (knock on wood of course, I would hate to see the first vbac death happen now that I said this, but even if one happened now, it would have many more to go through to catch up with the csect deaths).

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#33 of 52 Old 06-18-2011, 12:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post

There is a study that shows a 3 times higher death rate in the first year of life for babies from completely elective csects..with no troubles that led to the csects. There is also a higher rate of Autism. Those are two studies I have seen for sure.


Link?
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#34 of 52 Old 06-18-2011, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Lisa, if you don't mind talking about it, what happened that you almost died? Just trying to categorize it fairly in my head.

 

The same with the many deaths from c-sections during your last pregnancy. -What happened? Oh, my. I know fluke things do go terribly wrong, but that does seem awfully high. I do remember that a few years ago here in this state (PA) or NJ, there were two younger women who were friends that died within weeks of each other after c-sections. They were both for first and elective c-sections.

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by googling 'death by VBAC', though. Do you mean you won't find deaths of moms that way? Because I've looked up lots of that for babies and that is what initially alarmed me...there seemed to be quite a lot of VBAC deaths for babies. To be fair, once I started digging into it all, it seemed that almost all of those had been induced, though. On the other side, I didn't find a death for a healthy baby by RCS. Strange, because surely there are some, but I couldn't find them. Still, I concluded that both options are fairly safe. It really depends. RCS being more dangerous for mom and future pregnancies and VBAC being a little more dangerous for baby. (And RCS having more risks for baby if before 39 weeks. - Best if waiting until labor, worse if waiting till an emergency.)

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#35 of 52 Old 06-18-2011, 01:46 PM
 
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My personal bottom line is this. Am I or my baby going to die either during a RCS or during a vba2c? Probably not. Could I find horror stories either way? Yes. For sure, moms and babies die during both RCS and vbac. In the end, though, I think a vbac would be safer for both me and baby in the very likely event that it was successful. I also am comfortable with my proximity to a hospital in the event I needed to transport. Could I or my baby die during a hba2c attempt? Absolutely. But I'm prepared to accept responsibility for the decisions I make with regards to my next birth. I think that's what is important. You decide what your own comfort level and make a decision for you that you can own and be comfortable with. smile.gif

I've really enjoyed this discussion

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#36 of 52 Old 06-18-2011, 05:37 PM
 
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Something to keep in mind when looking at the statistics for fetal demise with VBAC is that when a baby is bornstill at term, the doctors REALLY encourage mom to VBAC.  So in some of the studies the babies that died in the VBAC births, were already dead before they were delivered.  They still include them in the statistics for fetal demise.  


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#37 of 52 Old 06-19-2011, 01:00 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ablepearl View Post

Something to keep in mind when looking at the statistics for fetal demise with VBAC is that when a baby is bornstill at term, the doctors REALLY encourage mom to VBAC.  So in some of the studies the babies that died in the VBAC births, were already dead before they were delivered.  They still include them in the statistics for fetal demise.  


Really??  I didn't know those would be part of the stats.

 

Honestly, for a VBA1C, there are larger statistically likely 'emergencies' that have nothing to do with VBAC that every childbearing woman face whether they know it or not.  The risk for an un-induced, un-augmented, un-anesthetized VBACer to rupture is really quite low, not much elevated from a non-scarred mom.  It's if/when you start having 2ndary fertility issues or want to have more kids and are tired of getting cut open for it . . . after this RCS where things REALLY get complicated.  It's even HARDER for a mama to find a provider who will 'let' her VBAmC.  And even if she does find someone, it doesn't mean that the CP won't do things to undermine the likelihood of a successful VBAC.

 

IMO, you need to look at this birth and what's at stake but also look into the future at the size of family you want.  My fertility, my sanity, and my care options have been severely impacted by that first cut . . . and then that second cut . . . JME.

 


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#38 of 52 Old 07-02-2011, 05:29 PM
 
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This is a fantastic VBAC story from a mama who sounds like she had a similar experience to yours - she was dilated and pushed for a long time, even though she never felt the urge. She and her care provider and doula did some amazing prep work in terms of thinking through what new choices she could make for her second birth and it resulted in a fantastic VBAC story. I share it just because I think it speaks to what can happen when a mama who had a mispositioned baby the first time around chooses to VBAC.

 

http://bloomingtonbirth.org/blog/2011/06/20/my-vbac-story/

 

Also, what about letting your body begin labor and then doing a semi-scheduled c-section? Or just winging it and seeing how it goes when you're in labor? I mean, if you birth in a hospital, you can have a lot monitoring happening and they can take life-saving measures so unbelievably quickly. Maybe that would put your mind more at ease? At the least, allowing labor to begin would ensure your baby is ready to be born, right?

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#39 of 52 Old 07-03-2011, 05:54 PM
 
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I never posted my HBAC story but I really should to give others hope and strength for their VBACs.  Without going into major detail and hi-jacking this thread, I will share some details.

 

My first birth story is very similar to yours.  Per my OB's advice, I induced myself at about 41 weeks with castor oil.  I went into labor that night and my water was broken by my OB once I got to the hospital.  Labor was progressing perfectly (went from 2 cent to 10 in 5 hours with no pitocin) but when it came time to push I had no urge!  Needless to say, I pushed on my back for 2 1/2 hours with no progress and ultimately had a c-section.  My OB was concerned about shoulded dystocia and CPD so "didn't want to take any chances."  because the baby was measuring big.  3 years later, when I was reviewing my records because I was pregnant again, I found that DD was malpositioned - no one mentioned this to me before or after birth! 

 

For my second birth, I knew I wanted a VBAC but I was too afraid of all the unknowns - unterine rupture, shoulder dystocia, tearing, pain, etc,  Once I got over my fear of uterine rupture, I began to think of shoulder dystocia, then I got over that was afraid of tearing, and it went on and on.  I knew that I really wanted a VBAC and found a midwife with the experience, skills, and confidence in herself and my birth ability to have a perfect VBAC.  My labor was LONG and extremely painful from the start, but once I was in labor I never thought twice about rupture, shoulder dystocia, or tearing - I just let my body do the work.  After 13 hours of intesne labor and over 3 hours of pushing, I had a gorgeous baby girl weighing in at 9 pounds 2 ounces (bigger than my first) !!  And all I had was a little skid mark!! 

 

Knowing what my body is capable of doing and that all my fears were unwarranted, I can't imagine if I would have just scheduled a repeat c-section but having a VBAC is not for everyone.  I think the main point is just being confident in what you decide - whether that is a VBAC or RCS.  And if you ultimately decide on a VBAC, make sure you have an OB/midwife who is confident in your ability to have a VBAC. 

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#40 of 52 Old 07-04-2011, 08:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TCMoulton View Post



Link?


I am sorry. I do not always come back and check the posts so I did not see this sooner. I had great statistics printed out from ICAN, so I know I got it there. But it will take digging to find the website. I have a different computer now. I will post on the ICAN group and see if they can re-give me the links. 

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#41 of 52 Old 07-04-2011, 08:58 AM
 
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One of my vbacs was a still birth, but the baby was dead well before the stillbirth. So I guess we would be in the statistics for that. 

 

I want to add, that the only still birth I have ever known caused by uterine rupture, the mom never had a csect before. It was her first baby. Sp uterine rupture does happen when there was no csect.
 

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Really??  I didn't know those would be part of the stats.

 

Honestly, for a VBA1C, there are larger statistically likely 'emergencies' that have nothing to do with VBAC that every childbearing woman face whether they know it or not.  The risk for an un-induced, un-augmented, un-anesthetized VBACer to rupture is really quite low, not much elevated from a non-scarred mom.  It's if/when you start having 2ndary fertility issues or want to have more kids and are tired of getting cut open for it . . . after this RCS where things REALLY get complicated.  It's even HARDER for a mama to find a provider who will 'let' her VBAmC.  And even if she does find someone, it doesn't mean that the CP won't do things to undermine the likelihood of a successful VBAC.

 

IMO, you need to look at this birth and what's at stake but also look into the future at the size of family you want.  My fertility, my sanity, and my care options have been severely impacted by that first cut . . . and then that second cut . . . JME.

 



 

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#42 of 52 Old 07-04-2011, 09:06 AM
 
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There was someone who posted here...I think it was here. I think her name was Thrifty mom. So I did not know her personally. Anyway..she died after the csect. There was an article in the news about a woman who had a csect and developed an embolism and died without ever going home. Then there was a home school mom who I guess used the same family doctor as I did who died from a csect and left behind 8 children. There was one more. That baby was born in 2009 in case you want a reference date. 

 

For me, my organs starting shutting down. Maybe if it had been caught sooner it would not have gotten so bad. But it did not get caught until after 4 days after the csect. I kept telling them I was in pain and the doctor decided I must just be depressed so she prescribed zoloft. But eventually, I was in so much pain, screaming literally, that they finally did tests. I could not nurse the baby at that point and it was horrible. I was just too sick. I never want another csect. I did not know that my complication had a high death rate, until after I was out of the hospital. I think that is the only reason that OB said a vbac would be better the next time even though I have had 4 csects. My understanding is that that OB rarely does vbacs.
 

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Lisa, if you don't mind talking about it, what happened that you almost died? Just trying to categorize it fairly in my head.

 

The same with the many deaths from c-sections during your last pregnancy. -What happened? Oh, my. I know fluke things do go terribly wrong, but that does seem awfully high. I do remember that a few years ago here in this state (PA) or NJ, there were two younger women who were friends that died within weeks of each other after c-sections. They were both for first and elective c-sections.

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by googling 'death by VBAC', though. Do you mean you won't find deaths of moms that way? Because I've looked up lots of that for babies and that is what initially alarmed me...there seemed to be quite a lot of VBAC deaths for babies. To be fair, once I started digging into it all, it seemed that almost all of those had been induced, though. On the other side, I didn't find a death for a healthy baby by RCS. Strange, because surely there are some, but I couldn't find them. Still, I concluded that both options are fairly safe. It really depends. RCS being more dangerous for mom and future pregnancies and VBAC being a little more dangerous for baby. (And RCS having more risks for baby if before 39 weeks. - Best if waiting until labor, worse if waiting till an emergency.)



 

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#43 of 52 Old 07-18-2011, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My due date is one week away now!

 

I did schedule the RCS for July 27th...right after my due date. If I go into labor before that, it will be a VBAC.

 

I think I already mentioned all of this!

 

I just couldn't decide between them and I still can't. I am so nervous and excited either way.

 

But....the doctor did do a cervical check today for my physical. I hate cervical checks and wait till they make me do them...if they do...which they wanted to this time to give at least a tiny idea of VBAC, I guess.

 

Well, nothing. No change in my cervix at all, which really didn't surprise me. I know it doesn't necessarily mean anything...that I could have been 3 already and it wouldn't necessarily mean anything, but I guess having nothing at all makes it a little less likely to happen before the RCS!

 

I asked the doctor what he thought and he said that he thought I had a good plan, but that he didn't really think that I would go into labor before the RCS.  (Because of no changes in my body and my history with my first son- which was....exactly like this....and he was about 11 days past his EDD.)

 

So, now I just have to decide.....keep the RCS date or try to push further into my 41st week for VBAC? The hospital may only let me go right to 41 weeks, though. Of that I am not sure yet.

 

I think we are going to keep the RCS date, though, but I am pondering it.

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#44 of 52 Old 07-19-2011, 08:14 AM
 
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Some babies aren't ready until 42 weeks. I suggest waiting until your body goes into labor on its own and do a trial of labor...That way, you know baby is ready and your body as well. Good luck to you...you'll be in my thoughts!

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#45 of 52 Old 07-19-2011, 12:46 PM
 
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MSN article: C-Section Rate in U.S. Climbs to All-Time High: Report

 

According to the report, some of the reasons the number of cesarean deliveries are on the rise include:

  • Convenience in delivery timing for the doctor or the mother.
  • Women giving birth later in life, which raises the risk of complications during pregnancy and delivery.
  • An increase in maternal risk factors, such as obesity and diabetes.
  • Increase in multiple births, sometimes due to the increase in fertility treatments.
  • Increased willingness of doctors to perform C-sections.
  • Pregnant women's lack of understanding of the potentially serious complications of C-sections.
  • Pregnant women requesting C-sections.
  • Fear of malpractice for not doing a C-section.
  • Common labor practices, such as inducing labor or using epidural drugs.

 

LINK to story:

http://health.msn.com/pregnancy/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100275355&GT1=31036


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#46 of 52 Old 07-19-2011, 04:42 PM
 
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To return to an earlier idea (by the way, best of luck for a great birth, seili!), I can only speak for myself, but these are the reasons vaginal birth is so important to me (and why I will fight for an HBAC):  1. animals.  I love zoology, and have immersed myself in everything from elephants to kiwis giving birth.  Did you know the kiwi hen lays an egg one third the size of her ENTIRE body?  It looks right how they do it.  2. literature.  Silly?  Maybe, but I recall that line in MacBeth about MacDuff being "ripped untimely" from his mother's womb.  It seems people have always, until recently, had this idea that a baby coming any way but vaginally is kinda horrible.  Now many seem to find it more aesthetic.  3.  Past trauma.  As I've said elsewhere, I have a sexual assault by a doctor in my past, and in a hospital those guys are everywhere.  So, obviously, aside from any medical consideration, a woman's reasons will be highly personal.

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#47 of 52 Old 07-19-2011, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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douladiane, I don't think I have the ....courage...or something to wait until 42 weeks! Well, I think the hospital will only let me wait until 41 weeks anyway and I have to admit that I, personally, don't find a homebirth enticing and I guess that would end up being my only other option.

 

Arete, I am really sorry you had abuse through doctors! That is really terrible. I haven't and yet I still hate going to the doctor and any kind of intrusive check.

 

About c-sections in classic literature, I would think that has to do with the fact that hardly anyone ever lived through a c-section before the 20th century. So....it would have been beyond horrible in so many ways! I think the earliest known person to live through one was in the late 18th century....her husband was a doctor and did the c-section and a hysterectomy! And there was actually a woman about 10 years ago who lived in a remote village somewhere who performed her own c-section, apparently, and lived! Pretty crazy, but anyway, that was a bit of a tangent. But, even something like an infected cut before antiobotics could kill someone....so modern medicine has been in a life-saver in many ways, of course. That's one thing I think about, though.....Okay, if I am one that truly needs c-sections or is more likely to need a c-section, then....I probably should never time-travel back to even the Pride and Prejudice days!

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#48 of 52 Old 07-20-2011, 07:48 AM
 
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I know this is off the topic, but the c/s survival rate in history may be higher than you would think, esp. away from Europe. Here's Wikipedia on the subject:

 

 

Caesarean section usually resulted in the death of the mother; the first recorded incidence of a woman surviving a Caesarean section was in the 1580s, in Siegershausen, Switzerland: Jakob Nufer, a pig gelder, is supposed to have performed the operation on his wife after a prolonged labour.[14] However, there is some basis for supposing that women regularly survived the operation in Roman times. [15] For most of the time since the sixteenth century, the procedure had a high mortality rate. However, it was long considered an extreme measure, performed only when the mother was already dead or considered to be beyond help. In Great Britain and Ireland the mortality rate in 1865 was 85%.

European travelers in the Great Lakes region of Africa during the 19th century observed Caesarean sections being performed on a regular basis.[16] The expectant mother was normally anesthetized with alcohol, and herbal mixtures were used to encourage healing. From the well-developed nature of the procedures employed, European observers concluded that they had been employed for some time.[16]

The first successful Caesarean section to be performed in America took place in what was formerly Mason County Virginia (now Mason County West Virginia) in 1794. The procedure was performed by Dr. Jesse Bennett on his wife Elizabeth.[17]

Anyway, we should remember that mortality rates for vaginal childbirth were often extremely high too, depending on the practice in a given time and place.  I think the aversion to c/s had more to do with what was considered in accordance with, or against nature.  Natural law used to be a thing people talked about a lot.  But I do apologize for going so far off topic!!! 

 

An early account of Caesarean section in Iran is mentioned in the book of Shahnameh, written around 1000 AD, and relates to the birth of Rostam, the national legendary hero of Iran

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#49 of 52 Old 09-02-2011, 10:39 PM
 
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So..... how did your birth turn out!?!?!  Did you end up with the RCS? 

 

I am 19 weeks pregnant (and 39 years old, so this will be my 2nd and last) and just starting the search on VBAC or RCS and like you, I am leaning towards RCS.  I almost don't want to even say it, as I don't want everyone jumping down my throat. 

 

I can't seem to find any positive reactions or info towards RCS, and everyone is pushing VBAC.  Except for my doctor.  I have no desire to push a baby out of my vagina, thank-you-very-much, lol, that scares the crap out of me to be honest.  And to me, the RCS just seems to be a whole lot easier on everyone.  Me, baby, daddy, brother, and our extended families, who will have to spend a day travelling to get to us when the baby comes.  The only negative things I can find are about taking the baby early, which is preventable.  I can't seem to find anything else negative about it, yet everyone pushes for VBAC and I don't understand that.  What's so bad about RCS?  (And please, don't everyone jump down my throat.  There is a ton of info on this thread, and I've read bits and pieces, but not all.) 

 

The only thing that peeved me off after my son's c-section was that daddy got to hold him first, lol. 

 

I would like to hear POSITIVE things about RCS!  And I would like to know how your birth turned out!  Did you get the RCS, and if so, how do you feel about it now?

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#50 of 52 Old 09-03-2011, 12:37 PM
 
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In reply to the most recent post- Rosie1972:

 

I'm not going to jump down your throat, by any means. I actually don't really WANT to push a baby out my vagina, either! But there are risks to any major surgery that you have to weigh in. The recovery is definitely more difficult than with a vaginal birth (unless the vaginal birth was a very traumatic one.) I know one thing I had a really hard time with was not being able to hold my not-quite-two-year-old son for 6 weeks! I don't know how old your first child is, but with mine being a toddler, it was a huge inconvenience. 

 

There is also risk of hemorrhage, infection, possible hysterectomy, and I'm sure other women here can list all the other possible complications. 

 

For me, another reason to VBAC was because I want more children. Obviously, that's not an issue with you. To be honest, if you wait until the baby is ready to come (like, wait until you actually start early labor), and you get the surgery done with a competent doctor in a good hospital, you will actually probably be just fine. Many, many women have had multiple c-sections and everything turned out fine. There's just that risk that is always present in the back of your mind. What if something goes wrong with this major abdominal surgery?

 

I think the only thing that makes a c-section preferable to a vaginal birth is less work for the Mom. If that is worth it to you, then I guess that's the decision you go with. Your baby will most likely be perfect and you will most likely recover just fine. Just make sure you are informed and despite what others may try to push on you, you make your own decision. It is true that for a perfectly healthy mother and baby with no real reason to have a c-section, a VBAC is actually the better choice as far as safety and recovery. But, again, it is your body.

 

Most of the women on this board are striving with their whole beings for a VBAC, and some might be offended by your choice to go for a repeat c-section. But that's just the way life is. Sometimes you offend people. Oh well. When it comes down to it, your child will not look or act any different based on how it was brought into the world. (Usually). Do what is right for you, as long as you are aware of all the facts. 


Mom to: My Little Man, born 5/2008, My Sweet Girl, born 3/2010, and a new baby coming in 3/2012!

 

 
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#51 of 52 Old 09-03-2011, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Rosie1972-  I'm the original poster. Yes, I had a RCS. It went perfectly fine. Well, it was major surgery, so that first day I was in bed, etc, but, really, the c-section is always the least of my problems! I've healed up nicely and quickly both times. The doctor said I looked excellent in there.

 

I waited until 40 weeks. I actually went into labor the day of the c-section. I had been trying to induce labor. Not necessarily to definitely have a VBAC- but to give it a chance and give baby some of the hormones that come from labor. And- kind of let him choose his birthday, make sure he was ready! So I was really pleased. The doctor checked me before surgery, but my cervix wasn't changing and, as always, the internal exams hurt me. He mentioned that my pelvis was very narrow. (Other doctor and midwifes have mentioned this in the past, too.) So, we decided to go for the surgery. It's just what gave us peace. I think it's a personal decision for the most part. There isn't always a right or wrong decision; in my case, it was a calculated risk. I had a history of potential small pelvis, stuck babies, so for me....a c-section made me worry about myself, but a VBAC made me worry more about the baby.

 

If I may ask, what was the reason for your first c-section? That can be a big deciding factor, if you are interested in VBAC. I do recommend VBAC for a lot of people. But it doesn't upset me in the least if someone chooses a c-section, especially a RCS, because neither decision is really that terrible.

 

My section felt great by days 4 and 5. If I touched it, it was still sensitive, but otherwise, no pain at all. I left the hospital at day 2- I can't stand to be in the hospital more than necessary! Those are the things I hate- when they start putting saline in my IV to clean it and start ripping tape off that feels literally glued on!

 

Surgery could definitely be more family oriented, though. I understand the concern with that. There is definitely a coldness about it. But not so much so that it really bothers me. I'm just always thankful. And everyone was very helpful; I felt the main people involved really did care and want to do what was best. The doctor even came over and put his hand on my head and prayed for me beforehand! Some people may not like that, and we didn't request it or anything, but we really appreciated it.

 

Since this will be your last child, I can also understand thinking about a RCS. We want to have one more, possibly two.

 

And I'm sure I've said it before in here, but I also just don't have an emotional connection to needing a vaginal birth. Having a c-section does not depress me at all ( breastfeeding does, though! I have lots of pain, mastitis, and low supply- possibly because of burns as a child that may have caused underlying damage). And I do tend to think of all the horrible things that people go through, that we haven't - like pregnant women in concentration camps giving birth and then having their babies drowned. I guess when I look around me and see a lot of people that seem to want to help, it just makes me more thankful. I guess that's extreme and not the only reason for a RCS of course, but it's just when I weigh my options and both of them are probably good...it's hard to make a decision, so I went with what felt right for me and the baby.

 

I hope you find the right answer for you!

 

(ps. My scar looks so much better this time! Like a little pencil line. I thought I would have an even bigger scar now, but it wasn't so. Also, what really helped me, too, was a recliner. I couldn't wait to get home to it! I slept in it. It helped because getting out of bed always feels like you are splitting in half otherwise! )

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#52 of 52 Old 09-05-2011, 10:05 PM
 
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OP!  So happy your delivery went well!  Congrats on your newest bundle!  I hope you heal quickly!


hippie.gif Hi, I'm Amber

Ava {12.20.08}  Levi {8.19.10}  Aspen  {EDD 7.21.13}

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