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#31 of 51 Old 10-29-2005, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And without demeaning your feelings I have to say I personally do not understand how your child's birthday can be the worst days of your life. The bitterness and anger, I think it is giving too much power to your c-sections. BUT I completely respect your right to feel that way and hope that in time you can heal from the emotional.

I personally do feel I gave birth to my children. I carried them for 9 months (well 7 months for my son), they grew and turned and kicked inside me. On the days of their births I did not push them out of my vagina, no. But I did participate, it was MY body they were taken out of. Yes in technical terms the doctor removed them from my body but I still gave birth and life to those children. The days my children were born were the best days of my life. I can never look at them as anything other than that. I have decided to schedule my 3rd c-birth and I really feel comfortable with that decision. I am going to work hard to make this child's birth peaceful and happy and I hope they know in the future that even though they were not birthed vaginally their birth was much anticipated and celebrated.

Shawna, married to Michael, mommy to Elijah 1/18/01, Olivia 11/9/02, and Eliana 1/22/06
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#32 of 51 Old 10-29-2005, 02:16 PM
 
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I've been looking at the WHO recommendations for cesearians - a 10-15% rate gives the best maternal and fetal health. While our US rate is higher than that, I don't think that most women who become pregnant really accept that they have a 1 in 10 chance of a neccesary cesearian. That's a really significant number.
I do think there are more mamas who had c-sections here that just do not want to talk about it and never bring it up. While that makes me a little sad, I think they could be right when they say that it just might not be worth it.

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#33 of 51 Old 10-29-2005, 02:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MommytoTwo
I understand what youare saying, but this person does not mind that she had a c/s and thinks it was a great thing. We have talked about it many many times.
Like I said, my c-section was a wonderful, healing experience. It was brilliant, it was amazing, it was a FABULOUS experience all around. The fact that I feel very positively about my c-section doesn't change the fact that my daughter wasn't born, though.

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#34 of 51 Old 10-29-2005, 02:46 PM
 
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I totally agree with the OP and I am glad that you started this thread. I *love* MDC, I was lurking here for a very long time before I became a memeber and elarned so much that has contributed to the way I raise my daughter.

However, I have noticed (especially recently) the casual and very insensitive critisicm of people who have had C/S. The use of the and icons after the word c-section in any thread where people are discussing someone else's birth drive me crazy. The inferrence being that these people were just too damned ignorant to get themselves a better birth experience.

Granted there *are* many situations where C/S may not have been warrented or surgeons were just too keen to get theknives out but that shouldn't blinker people to the fact that C/S is sometime unavoidable and even neccessary.

MDC *should* be a safe place for us to talk about all these issues, a little more sensitivity is in order I think.
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#35 of 51 Old 10-29-2005, 03:05 PM
 
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I am so sorry that you mamas have had to go through this. I don't know from experience but I am sure that dealing with and recovering from a c-section would have been a lot to deal with on its own let alone the lack of support you have recieved. I am sorry you haven't recieved the support and understanding you should have..especially from other moms.
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#36 of 51 Old 10-29-2005, 03:27 PM
 
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Peggy O's letter in Mothering this issue is a timely addition to this thread.
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#37 of 51 Old 10-29-2005, 03:49 PM
 
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One person was actually ignorant enough to say in response to a thread about planning a VBAC that if the person had planned a homebirth for their first they wouldn't be in this position.
What a horrible thing for a person to say! I planned a homebirth and did all of the "right" things, and still had a c/s. The arrogance of some people.... it's astounding.

As for c/birth vs. c/section..... A woman should be able to define it however she wishes. Sometimes the definition changes over time as we heal and process the experience. I, for one, also hate being corrected on this. Sometimes the memory is quite painful, and during those moments I think of it as a c/section. Other times I am filled with joy when I think of the day my son came into the world, and in those moments I consider it a c/birth.

Micromanaging another person's feelings is just plain stupid and rude. :
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#38 of 51 Old 10-29-2005, 03:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eilonwy
Like I said, my c-section was a wonderful, healing experience. It was brilliant, it was amazing, it was a FABULOUS experience all around. The fact that I feel very positively about my c-section doesn't change the fact that my daughter wasn't born, though.
I feel that my daughters were born and had cesarean births.
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#39 of 51 Old 10-29-2005, 05:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Heavenly
And without demeaning your feelings I have to say I personally do not understand how your child's birthday can be the worst days of your life. The bitterness and anger, I think it is giving too much power to your c-sections. BUT I completely respect your right to feel that way and hope that in time you can heal from the emotional.

I personally do feel I gave birth to my children. I carried them for 9 months (well 7 months for my son), they grew and turned and kicked inside me. On the days of their births I did not push them out of my vagina, no. But I did participate, it was MY body they were taken out of. .
My children's arrivals are definitely something I'm happy about. And, I'm happy that my body did well at growing strong, healthy babies. But, I don't think I'll heal from it, and if I do, I don't know when. My oldest is 12.5 years old.

I didn't participate. I was wheeled into an OR crying and cursing that I didn't want an effing c-section...and then I woke up in pain. I don't know anything else about it. They could have given me someone else's baby and I'd never have known. (Okay - that's not entirely true, because when I did finally see him, he totally responded to my voice - he knew I was mommy.) The other two sections weren't quite that distant, but they followed from the first, and are emotionally tied to the experience.

I will admit that my miscarriages were worse (and one of them hurt physically more than 20+ hours of labour did)...and the day I told my ex to leave was probably about equal. But, the sections are still WAAAYYYY up there.

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

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#40 of 51 Old 10-29-2005, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavenly
The days my children were born were the best days of my life. I can never look at them as anything other than that.
:

I also don't speak very often about my births here - two c-sections - the first after 40 hours of labor and the second after 50 hours of labor (all but the very last few hours of both were unmedicated). Of couse, I was disappointed that, in the end, I had c-sections both times. But I cannot imagine allowing people to judge me because I didn't make some other choices at the time. After laborin for 50 hours and not sleeping for several days, a c-section (at midnight, I might add) was something *I* needed. I needed for my babies to be here after that amount of time. I needed to sleep. I needed for labor to be done. After a total of 90 hours of labor, I've been through enought to have about *9* kids rather than the two that I have. The only thing I didn't do was push. I got to 9-1/2 both times. I went through the whole of labor twice. Did I give birth to my kids? Hell ya! Anyone who suggests otherwise will prompty find my foot in their.....

Those days were WONDERFUL. In spite of all of it - the long labors and the c-section - I was HAPPY in the recovery room, saw both babies right away and they nursed. I was so happy and chatty the nurse the second time was like "it's 3:30 in the morning... you've just been through three days of labor and major surgery... aren't you tired?" But I just was not. I was so excited about the whole thing, that my baby was there. The c-sections didn't matter so much.

They still don't. Except sometimes I have dreams about having a baby vaginally and they are SO WONDERFUL and I wake up feeling so cheated. I love and hate those dreams.
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#41 of 51 Old 10-29-2005, 06:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MizLiz
I had both of my kids by c-section and *always* feel that I have to justify that I didn't just blindly follow someone else's orders;
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenly
And heaven forbid anyone on here ever claim their c-section was needed! People jump all over that just to make the person fell like sh!t and convince them why it wasn't really needed.
ITA!!! My first 3 children were born vaginally. My next 3 were born via c-section. My first c-section was necessary because my twins were both in a footling breech position. I had my second c-section because 2 days before my son was born, my doctor informed me she wasn't comfortable letting me vbac. I wasn't prepared to homebirth; I had no supplies, no knowledge of how to do it, no midwife, etc. Oh, and I have a history of hemorrhaging badly enough postpartum that I require a D&C and blood transfusions, so having an UC really would have been risky, imo, and neither my dh nor myself was willing to attempt it. So I had the second c-section. Not what I wanted, but oh well.

And this time? Well, I had planned to vba2c. Had a midwife and everything looked great. But then we found out there's a maternal-fetal blood incompatibility (the baby has antigen-c in its blood and I have antibody-c in my body, so my mmune system thinks the baby is a foreign invader that needs to be destroyed, so my antibodies are continually attacking the baby's red blood cells) and the baby has a 2-vessel umbilical cord. Suddenly having a vaginal birth is completely off the table. Even if I'd NEVER had a c-section, I'd be having one this time. And it's DARN necessary! As it is, the baby may not even make it to delivery because of the blood incompatibility issue, and if it does make it to delivery, it will need blood transfusions immediately to combat the anemia and jaundice it suffered in-utero. There is also a significant chance of the baby needing to be born very early due to IUGR from the 2-vessel cord, which would make a NICU necessary. So a homebirth is out, as is an UC. A c-section is the safest method of delivering this baby, so that's what I'm going to do. Am I thrilled about having to have my 3rd c-section? No, I'm not. But do I want to hear the militant vbac'er's lecture me about how another section isn't necessary? Hell NO! Sometimes a c-section IS necessary and it IS the best birthing method possible. And just because someone has a section doesn't mean they should be considered "open" for attacks.

Stepping off my own soapbox now.
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#42 of 51 Old 10-29-2005, 06:44 PM
 
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My first was an emergency C. The second two scheduled. Why is no one's business but mine and my doctor.

I ALWAYS wanted a V birth. And after i discovered MDC I wanted a homebirth. Not in the cards for me.

But I do have three healthy children, which I doubt I would have had without the delieveries I had. I also doubt I'd be alive at all.
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#43 of 51 Old 10-29-2005, 06:47 PM
 
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I am sorry that you all have felt unsupported or attacked about your C-Sections. As for Monday morning quarterbacking that someone mentioned, I do that for every birth, home, hospital, whatever.....not just the C-section's....I'm an equal opportunity Monday morning quarterback....

Would it make you feel better to know that I hemmorraged at my UC???

From the perspective of a birth junkie, I would take any birth story, yours, or what have you, and I would analize it to see what could have been done differently or make a mental note of what worked well. I hope that I wouldn't share this information unless I was being personally asked for advise or my opinion. I am truely sorry that others from MDC have been unsensitive in their approach or comments.
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#44 of 51 Old 10-30-2005, 11:26 AM
 
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I feel my first cesarean was totally not necessary and I feel violated by my medwives who shocked me by abandonning me, pushing cytotec, etc. It was a horrible experience in every way, in spite of months of preparation, reading, etc.

Oddly, I feel good about my second cesarean for a number of reasons, even though I wanted a VBAC. I feel that cesarean was right for my second daughter and me.

I won't go into the reasons for the reasons I felt one was not needed and the other was needed. Every case is unique.
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#45 of 51 Old 10-30-2005, 11:48 AM
 
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If she's okay with it, that's fine. I just found the "I correct her and say..." thing very frustrating. To me (not saying it applies to your friend), there's no correction to be made. OB's have magazines in their offices with stuff in them about how "moms who give birth by cesarean have still given birth" - the first time I read it, I felt as though I'd been punched in the gut (again). To me, that's completely denying the experience I had. I did not give birth to any of my children - they were cut away from a part of my body that had no feeling.
I totally get that. I feel that way about DS's birth. I am very lucky to not feel that way about DD's birth. The 'moms who have had a c/s gave birth too' thing - see that makes me feel GOOD - like YES DAMMIT I DID give birth to these babies. I guess it just shows we all see it diferently.
sorry nnursing baby hitting hte keyboard here
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#46 of 51 Old 10-30-2005, 11:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by goodcents
Peggy O's letter in Mothering this issue is a timely addition to this thread.

that's exactly what I was thinking as I read it. I kept thinking about this thread, and had to come here and post something about it!
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#47 of 51 Old 10-30-2005, 12:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Storm Bride
As I've said here before, other people can call it a birth if they want to. But, I have no desire to "connect with the experience" after the fact when I wasn't connected at the time.

I just wanted to Thank you for saying this. I whole hartedly agree. I think I will always feel this way.
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#48 of 51 Old 10-30-2005, 04:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MommytoTwo
I totally get that. I feel that way about DS's birth. I am very lucky to not feel that way about DD's birth. The 'moms who have had a c/s gave birth too' thing - see that makes me feel GOOD - like YES DAMMIT I DID give birth to these babies. I guess it just shows we all see it diferently.
If I see it again, I'm going to try to keep that in mind. I found it so infuriating that it never even occurred to me that it probably helped some women process the experience. I'm glad it helps!

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

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#49 of 51 Old 11-05-2005, 08:03 PM
 
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I really like the use of the term Ceserean birth for me and my experience - because I GAVE BIRTH to my son.

I think circumstances make a big difference in the way we look back at our birhts or c-sections (however you want to think about it). My son was breech and was floating about ten feet about my pelvis due to the position of my placenta. My doctor was very experienced in breech births and at week 39.5 looked right at me and said "let's schedule this c-section". I never felt pushed or pressured or negative about the whole thing at all.

It's what happened - it's not something I would walk into again if there's any way to prevent it - but I didn't feel like it was the biggest loss (for me, being unable to bf would have been a lot more tramatic).

I guess when I read unsupportive things or can "hear" people roll their eyes thinking (she should have done tilts, she should have done flips in the pool, she should have tried accupunture - all of which I did) I just figure they can't know the whole story from where they sit behind a keyboard. So while I can see that you may not always feel supported, I always think these people would act very differently if they were real people in your life.

Maybe I'm just guilty myslef. I never "got" that people "failed" at nursing - I always figured they didn't have the right support, or advise or something of that nature.

Then I sat with a friend day after day while she did everything and there was just no milk coming. Even though I would never post anything being critical to any mom intentionally - I just never really understood until I saw it first hand. Guess I just assume the unsupportive folks out there will have their own emphipany someday as they go along their life journey.
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#50 of 51 Old 11-05-2005, 11:03 PM
 
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AtThePark: YOU ARE SINGING MY SONG!!!

I gave birth by C-Section.

I ALSO have/had EXTREMELY LOW milk production. I did nurse my oldest but never exclusively. I took in all I could from the lacation specialists and put it to use when my next son was born.

I started pumping (with a hospital grade pump) as soon as my child came home. And pumped for 20 minutes after every nursing session AND 20 minutes every two hours if he hadn't nursed. I also nursed on demand 24/7.

Did the same for #3.

It worked. Few I know were willing to work that hard.

There are those who can't give birth without medical intervention. I am one of them.

There are those who can't nurse (especially exclusively) without pumping and an enormous amount of work and dedication. I am one of them also.

MY HAT'S OFF TO THOSE WHO CAN DO BOTH!!!! And those who do all they can!!!
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#51 of 51 Old 11-05-2005, 11:24 PM
 
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I would like to apologize just in case I ever said anything that was hurtful to anyone needing a cesarian.

To be honest, I have vented about cesarians in the past, but never to intentionally criticize anyone here on MDC. I guess MDC is one of the few places that women can do that openly without getting slammed.

Please forgive us for being insensitive to your feelings.

s

Mom to two boys, ages 8 and 11, and one blessing due May 8th.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 baby.gif 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40

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