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#31 of 46 Old 07-21-2006, 03:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by hajenkatt
When she is old enough to ask me about the day of her birth, I love that I will be in a positive place and can tell her that I had a belly birth. I would never want to tell her I was butchered open, she was yanked out and I was stitched shut. Is that true? Yes. But when she is an adult and can deal with the medical reality of c-section we can have that discussion. I would never want her as a little girl to feel any secondary guilt that her birth had caused me any (emotional) pain or torment (because we all know kids will put things onto themselves).
I just want to mention that I was a c-section baby. I grew up knowing that my mom hated her sections (not much overt stuff, but mom/child is an intimate relationship...her face when someone commented on her scar - classical, with keloids...very obvious...her word choices...what she did and didn't talk about - it was all obvious to me). I never once thought her dislike of her sections reflected on me in any way. I certainly never felt guilty.

I've actually seen women with vaginal births doing the "after I went through XX hours of labour for you, you can't even come in by curfew?" trip. I have to think they feel way more guilty about how they arrived than I ever have. My mom's surgery was her burden. I was not.

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#32 of 46 Old 07-21-2006, 06:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Storm Bride
My mom's surgery was her burden. I was not.
I am also a c-section baby, and I never felt any negativity surrounding my birth, either. I guess since I have been an aspiring crunchy person and have been frequenting boards that have had such negative attitudes regarding c-section moms it has been harder for me to heal from the process.

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Originally Posted by GalateaDunkel
I realized that the only way my child could have negative feelings about the way she was born would be if I projected such, myself.
That is a great realization, and that is exactly what I am actively striving towards--to embrace what was beautiful about my dd's birth so that I DON'T project any of my issues on to her. She will have enough of her own!

VBAC mamma of two little Vikings
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#33 of 46 Old 07-24-2006, 09:33 PM
 
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I haven't read all the posts yet...but I also feel I didn't give birth. My DD was a coerced surgical removal.

I also don't think I could have done anything else. I went 26 hours at home with a midwife got to 6 cm with pushing contractions that I fought for 12 hours. Finally my midwives and doula insisted on a transfer. They kept loosing the heartbeat during and after contractions.

Finally, after 6 more hours in the hospital with more pushing contractions, a cervix that had swelled back closed to 4 cm and a baby that was not only having decells but had actually flatlined at least twice (I didn't believe them the first time and insisted that the monitor was just loose or something) I was still refusing all pain relief and they would not administer pitocin without an epidural (Why, I still have no idea). They finally told me that if I didn't consent to a sectipn, they were going to get a court order to take custody of the fetus and I would have to fight to get her back after birth. I consented...

Don't tell me I didn't try hard enough!!!

Victim of Birth Rape & Coerced ribboncesarean.gifUnnecesareanribboncesarean.gif What makes people think they can cut up someone else's genitals? nocirc.gif
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#34 of 46 Old 07-29-2006, 07:46 PM
 
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I haven't noticed the judgements from other mamas.. probably because nobody is harder on me than me.

I always run through the what-ifs and all the things that I should have done differently. Every time I think about it, I cry (hard to see the screen right now, actually) My c/s was horrible and I don't view it as giving birth (just for me, personally). I know that it could have been different. My whole experience was just so rough- the spinal headache afterwards was really the worst. We had so many bf'ing problems that I had to pump full-time. (Again- should have found another LC and LLL group to find the help I needed- I blew it.)
I love what one of you said - about your 5 year old not being able to do multiplication? I think that really sums up what I went through. I was barely twenty. As educated as I was, it was formal education, not life experience. I trusted my OB, I was just so naive. I just blame myself for so many things..
I've since had another birth, a great VBAC, but I still have so much baggage to deal with about my first. I'm not quite sure if I will ever come to terms with it, but it's nice to be able to talk to all of you who have btdt, because IRL, I've only met mothers who had that great vaginal birth, or they did have a c/s but are totally at peace with it because they feel it was totally necessary.

Anyway.. the good that has come out of my experience? I have direction in my life now. I am going to school part-time now for nursing and plan to become a midwife when my children are older. I am also finishing my certification to be a CLE so that I can help other breastfeeding mothers. So I can say that my first baby gave me my career

~e, wife to my sweet T , mama to my turtleman (12) , sunshine (9 ), and monkey (6)
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#35 of 46 Old 08-04-2006, 03:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Lkg4dmcrc
I am so totally with you on this...and the judgement from some compounds all my negative emotions especially the ones who insist that women here with cesarean births somehow did not try hard enough, want it bad enough, or have enough information at the time. "If only you knew more about labor"...and the worst one..."if only you had a homebirth midwife things would have worked out for you." make me totally crazy. I find it maddening that people who are supposed to be so gentile and loving are so calous to other women who have had serious traumatic experiences. For the most part, these women never wanted cesareans in the first place, did what they could to prevent it, and certainly continually process the events of the birth trying to see what they could have done differently.

As for joining the "birthin' it right club" - I look forward to having my VBAC but I would never want to join a club that knowingly spits on me as a member. I am thankful that I will never espouse judgement on other birthing mamas. I will never tell them to take responsibility for their "incorrect" choices.
I totally agree with you Lkg4dmcrc vbmenu_register("postmenu_5539593", true); you said it the way I feel reading this thread

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#36 of 46 Old 08-04-2006, 10:41 PM
 
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This is an interesting thread for me.
I don't even know what to write, but I hear you all.
I was just at a doula conference and the topic of c sections and VBACs came up. There were two of us in the room who had had c sections and I was the only VBACer. It was interesting listening to everone talk. There wasn't judgement, but definitely the feeling that maybe the woman who has a c section could have prevented it somehow. There was this sense among the workshop participants that ignorance about birth was a large reason why people have c sections. I hadn't planned to speak out or get on a soapbox, but I fould my hand was raised and I was not able to contain the emotions that I didn't even know I had. I told everyone, especially, since we were going to be doulas, to honor what the birthing woman honors. If she honors her birth, then it is not anyone's right to come along and dishonor it. IF she hated her birth ( and perhaps doesn't even call it birth ), it is not OK to change that and tell her that it was a wonderful experience. It is the woman's choice to perceive her birth how she perceives it. It is our job to support, nothing else.
Do not assume that she knew nothing about birth and ended up with a c section because of it. ASSUMPTIONS can get so ugly. I know I made assupmtions about birth before I experienced it. We are all capable of making these assumptions. I am continuously correcting myself about preconceived notions I have about people. It is something I constantly work on in myself.
Blech- blah- I am going on and on and it isn't even making sense to me.

I guess my whole idea was just to write something like
LET'S HONOR EACH OTHERS' BIRTHING EXPERIENCES

- Kerri
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#37 of 46 Old 08-06-2006, 03:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mama Coltrane
This is an interesting thread for me.
I don't even know what to write, but I hear you all.
I was just at a doula conference and the topic of c sections and VBACs came up. There were two of us in the room who had had c sections and I was the only VBACer. It was interesting listening to everone talk. There wasn't judgement, but definitely the feeling that maybe the woman who has a c section could have prevented it somehow. There was this sense among the workshop participants that ignorance about birth was a large reason why people have c sections. I hadn't planned to speak out or get on a soapbox, but I fould my hand was raised and I was not able to contain the emotions that I didn't even know I had. I told everyone, especially, since we were going to be doulas, to honor what the birthing woman honors. If she honors her birth, then it is not anyone's right to come along and dishonor it. IF she hated her birth ( and perhaps doesn't even call it birth ), it is not OK to change that and tell her that it was a wonderful experience. It is the woman's choice to perceive her birth how she perceives it. It is our job to support, nothing else.
Do not assume that she knew nothing about birth and ended up with a c section because of it. ASSUMPTIONS can get so ugly. I know I made assupmtions about birth before I experienced it. We are all capable of making these assumptions. I am continuously correcting myself about preconceived notions I have about people. It is something I constantly work on in myself.
Blech- blah- I am going on and on and it isn't even making sense to me.

I guess my whole idea was just to write something like
LET'S HONOR EACH OTHERS' BIRTHING EXPERIENCES

- Kerri
Good post.

Some of what I have read on the midwife/doula/CBE board here has made me afraid to hire a doula. Some of them are so judgmental of their clients. I have seen many explicit posts critical of clients choices written in real-time, or near real-time. I can't believe somebody would post about a client that way on a public message board. If I discovered someone doing it to me, I would look into whether I could sue.
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#38 of 46 Old 08-06-2006, 05:46 AM
 
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Originally Posted by hajenkatt
As I gear up for my first VBAC, I am glad to have read this thread. It is nice to read all different perspectives of the process. I apologize that I do not remember the thread or the poster (I will try and search it out), but I read here on MDC recently that someone had come to terms with her c-section and now referred to it as her "belly birth". While I know that term may not sit well with some (and that's totally okay), for me it was such a refreshing POV. I had never heard anybody call it that before--and as I work through my own issues regarding my c-section, I am glad to have at least one other positive way of looking at it. As I try to let go of all my negative feelings regarding the birth of my daughter, I like that there are positive ways that I can express what happened.
I love the phrase "belly birth".

When the time comes for me to tell DD about her birth I'm going to use this phrase. It's so much more positive than thinking "surgical birth" which is what I've thought of my C-section until now.

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#39 of 46 Old 08-09-2006, 10:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by GalateaDunkel
Good post.

Some of what I have read on the midwife/doula/CBE board here has made me afraid to hire a doula. Some of them are so judgmental of their clients. I have seen many explicit posts critical of clients choices written in real-time, or near real-time. I can't believe somebody would post about a client that way on a public message board. If I discovered someone doing it to me, I would look into whether I could sue.
This is unethical, to say the least. It is probably also a violation of HIPPA. If doulas are health-care professionals, which I certainly know they are, they should uphold higher ethical standards than to post details about their patients on public message boards.

As to the topic of the post, rock on ladies. I'm with the "don't blame the victim" crowd, and the "some sections are actually medically indicated" camp.
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#40 of 46 Old 08-10-2006, 03:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BookGoddess
I love the phrase "belly birth".

When the time comes for me to tell DD about her birth I'm going to use this phrase. It's so much more positive than thinking "surgical birth" which is what I've thought of my C-section until now.
I totally agree! I mean, yes a c-section is a surgical birth, but why can't we find softer ways to decribe it? Glad the phrase will be useful to you and your family!

VBAC mamma of two little Vikings
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#41 of 46 Old 08-10-2006, 05:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tarahsolazy
This is unethical, to say the least. It is probably also a violation of HIPPA. If doulas are health-care professionals, which I certainly know they are, they should uphold higher ethical standards than to post details about their patients on public message boards.
Well, the problem is it's kind of a gray area. The person doing it would probably argue "well with no identifying details......" - and true, if you look at any board or list of professionals, you will find them saying "I recently had a case involving factors X, Y, and Z, and I administered treatment T, but I know that protocol has been questioned lately, what would you do blah blah blah?" and that is considered acceptable. Whereas what I am talking about is more subtle (or not so subtle) trashing of clients' personal choices/behavior/mindset....but where do you draw the line. It's like - a psychiatrist can go online for input about how to medicate people, but a therapist shouldn't post "vents" about her clients' personal choices. I don't know if the law is designed to handle this distinction.
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#42 of 46 Old 08-12-2006, 01:13 AM
 
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WOW it is amazing to find that I am not alone.

I felt my c-section was more a rape than a birth ( it was so unnessessary)and one of the other things that also hurt so bad was all the people who would instantly say well at least the baby is OK.
i always wanted to say:
WELL OF COURSE SHE IS OK, SHE WAS NEVER IN ANY DANGER, BUT I AM NOT OK.. DOESN'T THAT MATTER?
Thank you for letting me finally scream that at the top of my lungs!
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#43 of 46 Old 08-12-2006, 11:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Isamama
Thank God you started this thread! I had to stop reading the boards here at MDC because I felt the toxic judgement so strongly...and really, who needs any more judgement in their life?

I did all the "right" things: I taught yoga, took natural birthing classes, hired a doula, listened to hypno birthing cd, stopped people from telling me horror stories re birth, and met with the midwives in the practice. I also labored at home for the first 4 days before I had had ENOUGH. I was in agony and I hadn't slept more than 20 minutes in 4 days. I went to the hospital. I won't go into full details (too long for now)...on the fifth day I chose the epidural and pitocin. I finally got an hour or two of sleep. I dilated fully (epidural didn't work anymore at this time--ouch!) and pushed for 1 and 1/2 hours. I suddenly had this knowing that she wasn't coming out (we already knew she was a big baby, the OB/Midwives already said that vac/forcepts wasn't an option b/c afraid of SD) vaginally. At that moment I knew we had to have a Cecarian Birth. Let me just reassure everyone that having a surgery was the last thing I wanted. I am claustraphobic and would never just "elect" to be immobile with a huge drape hung up under my chin. At that moment, I knew it was the right thing to do for my child.

Having said all of that, after my daughter was born, I ignored all that I knew at the time of her birth and questioned myself like crazy: maybe i didn't try hard enough, if only I... you know the drill.

I also do not feel that my OB/Midwives did me wrong. They gave me options all along the way. I ultimately called the shots (even though they did give me parameters that some would disagree with). I find some folks are also very judgemental about trusting your doctors. Lord knows there are some bad ones out there and I do appreciate hearing about other options (ie home births, UA births, etc). Some of us just feel more comfortable in hospital settings (as I discovered I did---didn't think I would, but there you go).

Well, I could go on... Thank you for starting this thread!

I wanted to say thanks for this post it's pretty much what I went through when I gave birth to my daughter 10 months ago. I did yoga, water classes, had a doula, hypnobirthing, am well read and educated on birthing and had a midwife. Needless to say after four days of labor and never dialting past 4 doing everything the midwives and I could think of naturally I was in tremendous pain at the end and my daughter started to have difficulty. I knew in my heart we would need to go with a "belly birth"-thanks, I love that term. Although dh and I were scared never did we feel that we weren't "in control", the midwife and then the OB talked to us. I really felt good psychologically after it happened but have to say the comments from people on boards such as these and other well meaning people really took a toll. I started to get the "what if" syndrome which can really mess with your head. It's nice that the majority of these posts are from woman who had a belly birth even though they planned a different route and don't blame themselves or the doctors.
I'm not dismissing others feelings and the fact that they might have been pressured into a c-section. But there are quite a few of us where that's not the case but yet are treated as if we should either be angry or held responsible because it wasn't a vaginal birth.
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#44 of 46 Old 08-12-2006, 11:39 AM
 
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double post-sorry
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#45 of 46 Old 08-30-2006, 04:23 PM
 
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It just happens that way for some people-- just like doing some other things in life come easier to some people. All we can do is improve our odds with good pregnancy habits, but it's no guarantee.

I've had easy pregnancies but not easy births-- my HBAC labor was average in terms of duration and pain, but I had SROM again prior to active labor, a baby turn posterior sometime during labor or pushing and a very difficult pushing stage for 3 1/2 hours. If I have another I'm betting it won't be easy either, though hopefully pushing will go a little faster.
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#46 of 46 Old 08-30-2006, 07:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by GalateaDunkel
Some of what I have read on the midwife/doula/CBE board here has made me afraid to hire a doula. Some of them are so judgmental of their clients. I have seen many explicit posts critical of clients choices written in real-time, or near real-time. I can't believe somebody would post about a client that way on a public message board. If I discovered someone doing it to me, I would look into whether I could sue.
Nice. : Not irked at you, at them.

I too feel the need to plant a scarlet C on my chest a lot of the time. Which is really ironic seeing as my c/s was a good experience and I am totally comfortable with having delivered that way.
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