I am LIVID! (just a rant) - Mothering Forums

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Old 11-27-2006, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Rant following...feel free to ignore.

I just got a call from my HMO (Kaiser MD/DC/VA) informing me that my c/s is scheduled for 2/20!!! Ummmm...excuse me...1)scheduling this was never discussed w/ me; 2)I TOLD my Dr. that I was having a VBAC; 2) they scheduled it for when I would only be 39 weeks (I chart so I'm positive of my dates); 4)this was done by a Dr. other than my normal Dr.

Who the [heck] do these people think they are??!!! They're not even subtle about doing things for their own convenience.

Ggggggrrrrrrrrrrrr!!: I'm so mad right now I can barely type!

- Kim
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Old 11-27-2006, 02:41 PM
 
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When you've had a chance to do some deep breathing, call up *your* doctor. S/he needs to know about this ASAP if he/she's not responsible for it, if s/he is responsible for it, *you* need to know that ASAP.
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Old 11-27-2006, 02:46 PM
 
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Oh my word! I would be upset about that, too. I agree with pp--you need to find out where this came from. If it's another doctor, there may have been an oversight. If it was YOUR doctor, you may need to find another--and quick!
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Old 11-27-2006, 02:48 PM
 
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Oh my. Based on your username I'm guessing you're a lawyer? I don't remember where, but I've seen stats that show lawyers are more likely to wind up with a C-section, because the docs figure they're less likely to get sued if they've done "everything they could"

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. At least you'll have some time to seek out a new doc/midwife if you need to.
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Old 11-27-2006, 02:53 PM
 
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I don't remember where, but I've seen stats that show lawyers are more likely to wind up with a C-section, because the docs figure they're less likely to get sued if they've done "everything they could"
Its not too late to get a new doctor/midwife, and tell them you are a typist or a daycare worker or a cosmetologist.
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Old 11-27-2006, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the hugs (I definetly need it right now!).

My normal Dr. (as much as there is one w/ this HMO) is gone for 5 weeks so I can't call her and my next appt. won't even be w/ her. And due to the way this HMO is set up, I really can't change doctors. I'm stuck w/in the HMO system. Knowing what I know now, I don't think I would have chosen this insurance.

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I've seen stats that show lawyers are more likely to wind up with a C-section, because the docs figure they're less likely to get sued if they've done "everything they could"
: I've always worried that that was the case. Grrr...I don't want their money...just a simple, no-intervention VBAC.

Honestly, it shocks me that there is even a category of "80% success rate for VBAC" when women are pushed so hard for a repeat c/s.

(sigh)...at least this gives me a good chance to practice my Bradley relaxation techniques!

- Kim
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Old 11-27-2006, 03:13 PM
 
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Be strong Mama!
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Old 11-27-2006, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks! I'm tryin!

It did feel very good to tell the nuse that she could just unschedule it 'cause it wasn't going to happen.

- Kim
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Old 11-27-2006, 03:40 PM
 
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Wow, would that ever send me into a fit of rage! This is a little OT, but do you have a lot of good support for the event of your birth? Is there a possibility that this other doctor will be the attending physician? The reason that I ask is that I would worry about them trying to get you into a caesarian birth over some little thing if the VBAC started to bore them, based on this "slip-up." Please don't think I am trying to frighten you; I am just reading between the lines here. I hope there is no risk of undue pressure on you.
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Old 11-27-2006, 03:44 PM
 
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I am sorry that happened, I would be livid too! Let us know what happens!!
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Old 11-27-2006, 04:42 PM
 
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That would really irk me too! You need to call them ASAP and tell them to cancel it right away, as you will not be showing up for the appointment anyway! That is so presumptuous, rude, and just...ugh, there just aren't even words for taking that sort of liberty!

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Old 11-27-2006, 05:18 PM
 
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I would be so angry too.. Are you planning an induction or allowing labor to start on its own.. if the latter.. stay home as long as you feel comfortable doing so...

hugs to you!!!
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Old 11-27-2006, 05:24 PM
 
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just wanted to wish you luck on your Upcoming VBAC!!!
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Old 11-28-2006, 02:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow, would that ever send me into a fit of rage! This is a little OT, but do you have a lot of good support for the event of your birth? Is there a possibility that this other doctor will be the attending physician? The reason that I ask is that I would worry about them trying to get you into a caesarian birth over some little thing if the VBAC started to bore them, based on this "slip-up." Please don't think I am trying to frighten you; I am just reading between the lines here. I hope there is no risk of undue pressure on you.
I know you're not trying to frighten me...it's a great question. The way this HMO works is really messed up. Instead of pulling an on-call doctor from a pool of oh, say, 3-5 doctors like most places, there is a pool of about 30 or so doctors. The chances of me knowing the person is really small. I could end up w/ someone who is great and supportive or someone who is a totally knife happy. So, the risk factor is completely unkown. However, I've been told that the nurses at this particular hospital actually fight over Mamas who want to go natural and that a couple of them are training to be doulas (pretty cool, huh?!). Luckily, DH is very supportive and is even pushier than I am. He'll be a great advocate for me. If I tell him that I don't want something done to me/the baby at the hospital...he'll make darn sure it doesn't happen.

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That is so presumptuous, rude, and just...ugh, there just aren't even words for taking that sort of liberty!
Exactly! I never even conceived of such a thing happening. I fully intend on addressing the audacity and unacceptability of this w/ management via personal letter. No Mama should be treated this way.

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Are you planning an induction or allowing labor to start on its own.. if the latter.. stay home as long as you feel comfortable doing so...
Definetly letting nature take it's course (and praying very hard that this doesn't wait 'till 42 weeks...can't imagine that battle : ). I'd like to stay home 'till transition...the hospital is an hour away. I've already told DH that he needs to learn how to catch.

Thanks, Mamas for all the support and well wishes! I will definetly update.

- Kim
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Old 11-28-2006, 11:03 AM
 
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WOW!!!

That is really horrid. I would be really mad too. Just the psychological element, you know?

Do you have a doula? I would highly suggest a doula you feel comfortable with since there is so much varriability among your potential caregiver!

wishing you the best of luck with your VBAC!
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Old 11-28-2006, 06:28 PM
 
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Honestly, it shocks me that there is even a category of "80% success rate for VBAC" when women are pushed so hard for a repeat c/s.

Thats cause they only let like 10 people try and 8 of the 10 suceeded.
(sense the sarcasm, but sadly I am sure it isn't too inaccurate)
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Old 11-28-2006, 07:39 PM
 
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I'd be having words with my Dr. - sooner rather than later!

Good luck!

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:02 AM
 
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I would be livid, too. I hope everything works out ok.. Keep us posted

~e, wife to my sweet T , mama to my turtleman (12) , sunshine (9 ), and monkey (6)
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Old 11-29-2006, 02:52 AM
 
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Hi Kim ~ I seem to remember chatting "right" with you on another board.

I didn't realize you were going for a vbac. What did your doctor say when you first said you going to have a vbac? Was she supportive or wish-washy? I just wonder if this is one of those subtle "I support vbacs.... [up until the end of pg]." Can they drop you if you refuse the c-section? I just wonder if it's worth fighting or trying to gestate in peace and simply not show up. What a crappy situation either way. : I hope it works out b/c I get so mad when I hear these situations.

I've heard that stat about lawyers winding up with more c-sections. I think someone needs to sue over being cut open and then maybe doctors will change their knife happy ways. :

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Old 11-29-2006, 02:58 AM
 
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that is disturbing! I hope you make a big stink over this! that is really unacceptable! I think I would be quite leary of continuing care with these Dr's!

good luck with your VBAC!

Blissful Mama to DD-(5), DS-(6) and someone new due in November!
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Old 11-29-2006, 03:21 AM
 
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I've heard that stat about lawyers winding up with more c-sections. I think someone needs to sue over being cut open and then maybe doctors will change their knife happy ways. :
:
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Old 11-29-2006, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just the psychological element, you know?
Totally understand! I don't have a general distrust for doctors but let me tell ya...my research quickly changed course from just studying birthing techniques to now hitting the legal research...hard. My entire psychological stance changed to a very defensive standpoint. It's amazing what one phone call can do.:

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Do you have a doula? I would highly suggest a doula you feel comfortable with since there is so much varriability among your potential caregiver!
Gotta say, that option, though financially a bit difficult right now, is looking VERY enticing!

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Thats cause they only let like 10 people try and 8 of the 10 suceeded.
(sense the sarcasm, but sadly I am sure it isn't too inaccurate)
Hey, all good sarcasm is based in truth. And the concept that they "let" someone do a VBAC just kills me . Grrr...the first person at the hospital who tells me they'll "let me" or won't "let me" do something gets their head taken off (verbally, of course).

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I didn't realize you were going for a vbac. What did your doctor say when you first said you going to have a vbac? Was she supportive or wish-washy? I just wonder if this is one of those subtle "I support vbacs.... [up until the end of pg]." Can they drop you if you refuse the c-section? I just wonder if it's worth fighting or trying to gestate in peace and simply not show up. What a crappy situation either way. I hope it works out b/c I get so mad when I hear these situations.
Hi Dana! So many boards... .

Actually, my Dr. was very supportive...very quick to say that the odds are very much in my favour. I think it's one of the reasons that this phone call threw me for such a loop. I'm pretty sure they can't drop me (though, good point...will check into further to be sure). Trust me, I'm not fighting anything...just simply saying, "No."

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I think someone needs to sue over being cut open and then maybe doctors will change their knife happy ways.
They have!

To quote from the article..
Quote:
The most widely cited case, In Re. A.C., involved Angela Carder, a pregnant cancer patient who refused to consent to a cesarean at 25 weeks gestation and stated that she wanted to undergo cancer treatment instead, which her doctors believed would kill her fetus. Officials at George Washington University Hospital intervened and obtained a court order to force her to undergo a cesarean that neither she nor her baby survived. Her estate appealed the decision and won. The Court of Appeals upheld the right of pregnant women to make all medical decisions on behalf of themselves and their fetuses, arguing that to compel invasive treatment on pregnant women would give fetuses rights superior to those of the mother and diminish the rights of born children whose parents could not, by law, be forced to undergo surgery or donate organs on their behalf. The court further ruled that the viability of the fetus and any potential harm the mother might cause to it by refusing treatment could not override her fundamental right to bodily integrity and informed consent/refusal.

It’s important for VBAC mothers to know that the Carder ruling has had a very chilling effect on the willingness of doctors or hospitals to use the courts to force women to undergo cesareans. Many continue to use the prospect of a court order as a threat to coerce women to consent, but hospitals, doctors, and their attorneys are well aware that, should they proceed and should the mother decide to appeal, they’re looking at a long and expensive legal battle that they will lose in the end. Any VBAC mother who’s threatened with a court-ordered cesarean should inform staff that she knows that it’s an empty threat, that case law is on her side, and that she plans to appeal the ruling all the way to the Supreme Court if need be.
I need to look into this more (just found it last night) but am very encouraged. This case coupled w/ EMTALA sounds like a potentially very powerful tool.

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I hope you make a big stink over this! that is really unacceptable!
Oh, I'm soooo going to. .....but after the baby is born. No need to alert management at this point IYKWIM.

- Kim
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Old 11-29-2006, 04:57 PM
 
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Definetly letting nature take it's course (and praying very hard that this doesn't wait 'till 42 weeks...can't imagine that battle : ).
I'm here with my fingers crossed for you on all of it, but especially this. It took me by surprise last time (not 42, but 41+4), and my lack of preparedness, plus my OB making threats, caused me to cave into another repeat. They really push hard once your baby is "late" (I guess birth is a formal social engagement).

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
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Old 11-30-2006, 11:30 AM
 
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If it isn't resolved, I know a few lay mws in the area who will take you for a hbac. The cost is around $2000 give or take. There are about 2 CPMs in the area as well.

The Kaiser HMOs really SUCK!
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Old 11-30-2006, 04:55 PM
 
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I'm so sorry that happened to you.

I have heard the stats about lawyers and I asked my ob about it. I had actually heard of ob's not taking lawyers as patients. He told me that he didn't think most ob's would not take a lawyer out of "fear of lawsuit", but out of spite.

Anyways, I know you are pregnant and considering these things are very difficult when you have a toddler and are pregnant, but it may be worth your while to look at other insurance plans or oop birth. I know, here in St. Louis, that some doctors take a reduced fee for cash birth. I know you will pay more than if it were on your insurance, but sometimes money is just money and that's what it is for?

Maybe you could appeal to Kaiser? Do you know other moms who have vbac'd at that hospital? W/ those doctors? I've heard hundreds of stories of bait and switch w/ hospitals/doctors and I would hate to see you in such a situation.

Keep us posted!
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Old 12-02-2006, 03:06 AM
 
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So what happens if you just don't show up on that date?? Will they not pay for any part of the delivery? I'm just curious if you can somehow beat the system this way, if you don't consent for surgery they can't just automatically do it and I would suspect if you simply "missed" or "forgot" the appointment vs cancelled it on purpose and then went into labor on your own they should still cover you... I dunno how insurance really works. I know they try to screw you all the time, but there's GOT to be a way to work around it!!
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