Scaremongering, coercion and outright lies...What did they say to you? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 82 Old 01-13-2007, 01:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Share your scaremongering, coercion and lies from OBs or other care providers here. Were you coerced into a c/s, whether primary or repeat? Were you lied to about VBAC? Did the scaremongering begin as soon as you were planning your VBAC?

I was lucky. The only scaremongering I got while planning my first VBAC was gentle. My OB told me that he'd seen two ruptures, described them in what he thought was a way to express the importance of the UR issue. Just what I needed to GIP (gestate in peace).

When I was planning my HBAC last year, I had care providers who trusted birth, and was spared the scaremongering.

I know that I'm the lucky one. An acquaintance told me her OB said that the UR rate was 10% so she was happy about an ERC.
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#2 of 82 Old 01-13-2007, 01:47 AM
 
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When I first wanted VBAC, the OB was fine with it, until dd was breech at my 39 week check-up. I got a call that the section was scheduled and was given a huge bunch of crap about her being too big to turn, and how waiting until labour was a bad idea, blah, blah, blah. But - what really made me agree was that I'd waited 10 years to successfully carry a second baby to term, and another breech seemed like my nightmare coming true again...I wasn't in a good mental space to say "no". Both my doctors neglected to tell me that after that surgery, they wouldn't support a VBA2C.

When I was pregnant with my third, my doctors were very unsupportive. My OB "agreed", but was very negative, and cited all kinds of ugly numbers. Then, when I started to go "late", he started in about how two babies died in some study on how to manage post-dates (never gave me any real details). At 41w, 4d, after over a week of prodomal labour, he decreed that "nothing was happening" and he'd be guilty of malpractice if he continued to be part of this. I was given the choice of having the section the following day or beig dropped as a patient. I went into true labour that night, but the hospital wasn't satisified with my 1cm. of dilation...

Gah - I still hate talking about this...wish I'd stuck to my guns and had my baby on the sidewalk, like I said I was going to.

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#3 of 82 Old 01-13-2007, 01:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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, mama! Like I said, I was lucky my OB was not a bait-and-switch OB. I've heard so many stories like yours, and that is what fuels my anger at the system. They preyed upon your previous m/c's to coerce you into their agenda. I hope someone reads your post and it gives them the strength to stick to their guns.
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#4 of 82 Old 01-13-2007, 02:00 AM
 
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I like my new GP pretty well - switched to her after my last one was unhelpful during my labor and c/s and then told me I HAD to put my son on solids at 4 months - but when I told her my c/s was because my baby was stuck, she said, "well, if the first one didn't fit, you probably wouldn't be able to have a vaginal birth anyway." Um, he was posterior, and I was on my back because I had an epidural. Pretty sure the same circumstances wouldn't apply in the next attempt.
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#5 of 82 Old 01-13-2007, 02:38 AM
 
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I was lucky, never happened to me. I am so sorry for all your struggles
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#6 of 82 Old 01-13-2007, 05:58 AM
 
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I started to talk to my OB about VBAC when I started to ttc. I got the whole " if you were my wife..." "it's too risky..." So I found another OB.
Then I got a call from the office manager of my previous OB asking why I haven't shown up for my appts. When I told her I switched for vbac reasons she proceeded to tell me the latest studies don't recommend it. The UR risk is higher than they thought...etc...etc. I just told her that I was well aware of the latest studies and I was making an informed decision. She got mad and hung up on me
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#7 of 82 Old 01-13-2007, 06:47 PM
 
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I have a longer thread around here, but the quickie version...

A specialist I was sent to (for possible fetal cardiac complications) found out I was planning a VBAC and gave the "dead baby" speech. He gave incorrect UR stats, told my husband (while I was in another room) that it was DH's job to convince me VBAC wasn't an option (pregnant women are hormonal and irrational and DH wouldn't want me to kill our baby, doncha'know), and acted like I was complete idiot ("I don't know if you understand, but you have a scar on your uterus and in labor that scar can rip wide open and your baby will die."). He also accused me of misleading my primary care doctor (suggesting that I hadn't told my doctor I planned a VBAC and then that I hadn't told my care provider I'd have a c/s. Errrrrr....yes.)

And the "dead baby" number he quoted was 1 dead baby for every 200 VBACs. The cardiac condition I was there to check has a risk of 1 in 97, which he had just finished telling us was "so remote we really shouldn't worry about it". But 1 in 200 and it's an insane risk? Grrrrrr....

And the thing that really got me was he's not even my doctor! There was no medical malpractice or liability on his part!

(thankfully he really is an expert in u/s analysis of fetal cardiac complications and our babe is NOT the 1 in 97 with a severe problem...but still, he's a total ick).

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#8 of 82 Old 01-13-2007, 11:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wombatclay View Post
And the "dead baby" number he quoted was 1 dead baby for every 200 VBACs.
I wasn't clear if this is what your doc said or what you believe to be true. Just in case, I want to add that 1 in 200 is the rupture rate, not the infant death from rupture rate. Most ruptures don't result in infant death. Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your meaning there.

My OB is a good man, and never tried to mislead me or undermine me. He helped empower me to fight hospital policy. However, there are some others who I am very angry with. The nurses manipulated me into giving in to a c/s by telling me that if I didn't have my baby by 11 pm, she would be taken to the nursery and I wouldn't see her until morning. That was a lie, and that was exactly what happened to me BECAUSE of the c/s. The next time around, the nurses lied to me and manipulated me in order to get me to allow them to take ds to the ICU after I had resisted them for 24 hours.
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#9 of 82 Old 01-14-2007, 01:19 AM
 
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Oh where do I start with the manipulation?

I was told it would be risky to continue laboring and that a csection would be best- "it's just not safe to wait, The longer we wait the more your baby is in danger ...". A csection was performed 22 hours after my water broke. I got my records, and my heart rate and the baby's heart rate were perfectly fine. There were no fevers, signs of infection, nothing. I was making progress but they told me I wasn't, it just wasn't fast enough for them. There's so much more but I won't go on...

With this pregnancy I haven't even set foot in a hospital, except for one ultrasound for bright red bleeding. I am going to a homebirth midwife to get care. I feel very lucky and supported. I don't want to fight and argue with my care provider about what I know is best for me and my baby. I have done the research. Any doctor who trys the scare tactics is only interested in self preservation.

Mama to my spirited J, and L, my homebirth: baby especially DTaP, MMR (family vax injuries)
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#10 of 82 Old 01-14-2007, 01:27 AM
 
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Dr. Pamela Campbell and Dr. Cherese Collins both told me,"I had already proven I can't get a baby out of my pelvis." To which I responded, "I've proven I can't get a crooked baby out of my pelvis." They told me it didn't matter and Dr. Collins then told me, "the second c/s is so much easier." And, ftr, my reason for my c/s wasn't even cpd.

No thanks ladies.

I did send them a picture of my posterior vbac baby coming out of my tiny pelvis. I'm sure I didn't change their mind, but it made me feel better.
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#11 of 82 Old 01-14-2007, 10:36 AM
 
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Shawnee-

Quote:
I wasn't clear if this is what your doc said or what you believe to be true.
The 1 dead baby for every 200 VBACs was this guys' statistics. He refused to listen when I tried to tell him his numbers were wrong. I might have been less livid if he'd actually had his numbers right, but he didn't.

And of course, right or wrong, he was being massively inconsistent telling us that 1 in 200 was "you'll kill your baby" but 1 in 97 was "so low you shouldn't lose any sleep over it". Grrrr.

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#12 of 82 Old 01-16-2007, 09:42 PM
 
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With dd1 I was told c/s now or cord prolapse and c/s under general later.

With dd2 (victorious re-birth AC!) I encountered an OB who said, "Well, we want a healthy baby, that is all." To which I replied, cheeks flushing, anger flashing, "And a healthy mother."

Kate: fumbling through the best years with W, L, F & V...newest arrival coming Jan '11
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#13 of 82 Old 01-16-2007, 10:20 PM
 
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I did send them a picture of my posterior vbac baby coming out of my tiny pelvis. I'm sure I didn't change their mind, but it made me feel better.
I love it!!
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#14 of 82 Old 01-28-2007, 11:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#15 of 82 Old 01-28-2007, 11:52 PM
 
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I have not had my vbac yet but my md had strated me out being scared. At my first appt. he did a vag exam and said that my pelvis was very narrow and if I had a large baby (8 or 9lbs) that I may end up with a c-section. At every appt. he was telling me how big I was and that my baby must be huge. At my 36 six week sono the sonographer told me that he was measureing about 9lbs. So I began to doubt myself and become very scared. In labor we did not know he was postier and he was just not coming down and of dr was right there to say big baby, big baby maybe c-section. Meconium staining and water have been broken for over 24 hours and in labor for over 27 was wearing on me. So give in I did. Not this time.

Angie wife to Joe and Mom to Lucas(7) and Alex (4), Elizabeth (21 months) and due with #4 mid june

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#16 of 82 Old 01-28-2007, 11:58 PM
 
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I haven't had it over VBAC personally but I support women every day of the week who've heard all this and more and it makes me sick to the stomach. These people aren't CAREproviders they're unethical liars telling women rubbish to suit their own purposes. Now I'm not saying ALL MWs are perfect but you at least have a fighting chance of surgery not being an issue. Hiring a surgeon is almost a guarantee you'll get some version of this crap thrown at you. They don't want you to have a vaginal birth, it might make them look silly if one of their peers told you it couldn't be done. Makes me angry angry angry and sick sick sick. Women and babies are dying because of this issue.
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#17 of 82 Old 01-29-2007, 12:27 AM
 
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I have not had my vbac yet but my md had strated me out being scared. At my first appt. he did a vag exam and said that my pelvis was very narrow and if I had a large baby (8 or 9lbs) that I may end up with a c-section. At every appt. he was telling me how big I was and that my baby must be huge. At my 36 six week sono the sonographer told me that he was measureing about 9lbs. So I began to doubt myself and become very scared. In labor we did not know he was postier and he was just not coming down and of dr was right there to say big baby, big baby maybe c-section. Meconium staining and water have been broken for over 24 hours and in labor for over 27 was wearing on me. So give in I did. Not this time.
This sounds exactly like what happened to me w/DD2- I ended up w/ C/S under general. But next baby, i plan to switch OBs- can anyone tell me some ?s to ask to choose the right one?
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#18 of 82 Old 01-29-2007, 12:41 AM
 
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I am now with a mw. My first question was their c-section rate. In our Peoria county the c-sectin rate is about 38% we do have a hospital with a , I think, level 3 nicu that takes lots of high risk women but even then that is way to high. My mw office, she is in with an ob, has a c-section rate of 15%, I like my chances. I also asked if they routinely enduce VBAC, how far past due date they will *allow*, if my single layer incision was going to be an issue for thier practice.

Angie wife to Joe and Mom to Lucas(7) and Alex (4), Elizabeth (21 months) and due with #4 mid june

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#19 of 82 Old 01-29-2007, 01:41 PM
 
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My first ob (with my first son) said I could either deliver vaginally or have another c-section and that it was completely my choice (I miss her soooo badly!). I had my first appointment with a new doctor for this baby and she said if I decided on a VBAC they would let me labor a very short time then they would do a c-section anyway. And she made a horrible face at the idea.
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#20 of 82 Old 01-29-2007, 02:01 PM
 
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When I was told I "needed" to have a c-section for my first child the OB told me that I would be able to have a natural birth next time. And then afterward told me that VBACs were dangerous and I should have a c-section next time.

Mom of a 7 yr old, 4 yr old, and 1 yr old. Wow. How did that happen?
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#21 of 82 Old 01-29-2007, 02:09 PM
 
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I guess I am really lucky in that I never got anything negative about my vbac. The first nurse I had the hospital had had two vbacs herself with one of them using the ob I used. He asked me at my 14 week appointment (first time he noticed I'd had a c-section) if I'd decided how I wanted to have my baby and said "OK" when I said vbac.

I recently changed my username, but I still say "Hello" to all those who know me in real life! Hi P, S, T and K!
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#22 of 82 Old 01-29-2007, 06:01 PM
 
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With ds#1 I was in labor for 30 hours (22 of which was natural) and the doc told me well we can wait a few more days or we can just do a csection. Those were his exact words - I was so exhausted as I had not slept at all and asked him if he thought I would be able to deliver (I was only a 7) and he said that the baby's head wasn't dropping and he didn't think it was going to and the best option was a csection so we took it.
First apt with ds#2 he said "well you had a csection with your last child so we know how you will be delivering this one!" - I was totally clueless about a VBAC and it was only 8 months after delivering ds#1 so I just went with it.
With ds#3 I had a new doctor and learned about VBAC's at around 35.5 weeks and at my next apt (36weeks) I asked and they said they don't recommend it after 2 sections so I didn't really have time to research as I went into labor 10 days later.
I believe I'm preggo with #4 and I am going to try my darndest for a VBA3C. I already called and asked for my doc to call me (I don't want to go in if they are going to say no) and have a call into a OBGYN/CNM practice not to far from me to see if they accept them. I've already called the hospital and they have told me they allow them so they can't play that card!
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#23 of 82 Old 01-29-2007, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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When I bumped this I knew there had to be more scaremongering stories out there. Thank you all for sharing. I am sad that there are so many of us with these tales. By sharing them, it will all be here when someone comes here for VBAC information. They will see that they are not crazy for thinking their care provider is lying to them. They will see that other women have been where they are and hopefully they can learn from us.

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#24 of 82 Old 01-29-2007, 08:57 PM
 
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Hiring a surgeon is almost a guarantee you'll get some version of this crap thrown at you. They don't want you to have a vaginal birth, it might make them look silly if one of their peers told you it couldn't be done. Makes me angry angry angry and sick sick sick. Women and babies are dying because of this issue.
this is not necessarily true. my ob is a wonderful man who fully supported my decision to have a vbac. he knows the numbers and explained the risks and benefits to me - and they coincided with what my own research told me. i don't think it is fair or beneficial to try to say that all obs are just surgeons wanting to do surgery and that they will all coerce you to have a c-section - that's just not true!

that being said, i have chosen to change to a midwife practice. i did this because my awesome ob is part of a large practice (who comes to find out - are all supportive of vbacs). but, i wanted to give myself the best odds and not having met the other doctors i couldn't be sure. but i did find out that my ob (and some of the other doctors in the practice) are the doctors on call for my midwife. that's pretty awesome.
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#25 of 82 Old 01-29-2007, 09:48 PM
 
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I didn't say all surgeons, actually, and yet what I said is absolutely an accurate reflection of the vast majority which is crystal clear on reading the posts in this section. That you have a surgeon with whom you're satisfied has no bearing whatsoever on the reality that surgeons exist to do surgery and therefore have no place in a spontaneous, physiological birth or offering care to healthy pregnant women. The first indication that a surgeon is not providing evidence based care is that they take on healthy women as clients - they are solely trained in rare complications. You might want to consider that. The surgeon who refuses to care for a woman who doesn't need their skillset is rare indeed while midwives will support a woman's need for a surgeon's skillset in the rare event that it's required. Interesting that you removed yourself to more appropriate care rather than your surgeon suggesting it, don't you think?
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#26 of 82 Old 01-29-2007, 09:51 PM
 
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When I bumped this I knew there had to be more scaremongering stories out there. Thank you all for sharing. I am sad that there are so many of us with these tales. By sharing them, it will all be here when someone comes here for VBAC information. They will see that they are not crazy for thinking their care provider is lying to them. They will see that other women have been where they are and hopefully they can learn from us.

I wish this were so but it's obviously not when you read the VBAC section here. It's very little different from mainstream forums.

It's really simple. Don't hire a surgeon if you don't want surgery. Don't hire a plumber if you want your car fixed, don't hire a pastry chef for a Teppanyaki banquet. Hire someone who specialises in what you want. If you want a spontaneous physiological birth hire an expert - a midwife.
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#27 of 82 Old 01-29-2007, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I will butcher this quote and I can't remember who said it, but here goes:

"Hiring an OB for pregnancy and birth is like hiring a pediatrician to babysit."

The fact is OBs are surgeons. Some are just more caring than others. I had one of those caring OBs for my first VBAC, but I still did not want the medical model of care for my third baby, so I chose HBAC.
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#28 of 82 Old 01-29-2007, 10:21 PM
 
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But keep in mind that just because you don't have an OB it doesn't automatically follow that you wont have a c/s. I didn't have an OB the first time round, and still had a c/s. And as a result I had never met the doctor who did the surgery, he didn't know my preferences, he had no experience with me, and as a result...well...it was even les ideal than an emergency c/s is by definition.

I DO have an OB this time (as a VBAC mama I'm too high risk for local mw and family practice docs) and she's wonderful...very very VBAC supportive. But the specialist I saw, also an OB, had plenty of incorrect info about VBAC. Just plain old outright WRONG info. Presented with a generous scoop of "dead baby speech" on top and his "VBAC should be illegal" approach.

So while not having a surgeon is a good place to start in terms of avoiding surgery, it's not a sure thing!

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#29 of 82 Old 01-29-2007, 11:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So while not having a surgeon is a good place to start in terms of avoiding surgery, it's not a sure thing!
This is true. Some midwives are OBs in sheeps clothing and some OBs are masquerading as midwives. But overall, midwives have a lower c/s rate. Significantly lower. There is always the risk of c/s with birth. Sometimes it is necessary, even when you've chosen the care provider with the least risk of c/s.

I had a GREAT OB for my VBAC. He was still terrified of UR because of the TWO he had seen personally. My midwife, on the other hand, for my HBAC five months ago did not treat me like a ticking time bomb. She treated me like a woman about to give birth. It may seem minor, but it was a huge difference in the peace I felt planning the birth. In how I approached the birth. I was constantly worried that I would have to fight my way to a VBAC. Worried that my well-laid plans would crumble. It's truly amazing the difference in care from someone who is scared of what can go wrong with birth and someone who trusts that birth is a normal process. It doesn't make my OB for my VBAC any less caring or trustworthy, because he was those things. He was still part of the medical model.
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#30 of 82 Old 01-30-2007, 12:40 AM
 
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I guess I'm outside the norm, because my high-risk perinatologist guided me through a successful VBAC with my last pregnancy. He laid out the risks for me either way and told me that in the ongoing research study that he actually was co-author on, the comparative risk of uterine rupture in VBAC was higher than that of repeat elective C-section, but the overall risk was still extremely low, and therefore if I wanted to attempt VBAC, he supported me in that. And he did, and I had a great VBAC, even though I had a *gasp* OB.

Quotes like this are very depressing to me:

Quote:
If you want a spontaneous physiological birth hire an expert - a midwife.
Yeah, that would be great, except that as an insulin-using diabetic, no midwife would take me, and believe me, before trying to conceive my second baby, I think I called just about every midwife in the Seattle area. (We have since moved from there.) Sorry, too high-risk, I was told over and over again. So is the message for someone like me, "Sorry, you are stuck with a knife-wielding surgeon who is bound and determined to slice you open no matter what your wishes?" Because I think that's a depressing and not really particularly helpful message. Something that might be more helpful is, "While a midwife would be ideal, there are OBs out there who will be supportive of your chosen birth experience, and it is worth your time to search one out and find one if a midwife is a not an option for whatever reason."

I know that with my particular health issues I'm in the minority here, and that most women don't face the issue of being risked out of a midwife birth. But for those of us who do, or for those of us who feel the need to use an OB for whatever reason, I think it's important to remember that there ARE good OBs out there, and you don't have to be stuck with some jerk who won't respect your birth wishes just because you are going with an OB.
JanB is offline  
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