Anyone have an elective c-section?? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 41 Old 02-10-2007, 12:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi all. I am planning an hbac in 3 weeks or so. I am also writing a paper on elective cesarean sections (c-sections that weren't medically necessary) and am wondering what women who have gone through them have felt about it in retrospect.
Or, does anyone know the statistics of ob's willing to perform unnecessary c-sections??
I can't seem to find anything on the web about it.

Thanks.
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#2 of 41 Old 02-10-2007, 01:09 AM
 
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Here's the thing. As I discovered after my second c-section, they call everything not an emergency section an elective section. So this is a case where the statistics are, IMO, hugely misleading. My second c-section was for a footling breech. I was not offered the option of a vaginal birth and in all honesty was not comfortable with the thought of attempting it with that type of breech, but nontheless my section was marked down as "elective." (There were 3 choices: primary, emergent, and elective.) I'll tell you, I flipped out when I saw that. I was so upset over it!

I'm sorry; I know this isn't really what you're asking about. I wish you luck in writing your paper, but I doubt the type of woman to have a medically unneccessary c-section is the type to hang out at a place like Mothering. We do have a handful of women who have had elective c-sections, as in they chose to have a c-section and were not pressured into them, but if you ask they will tell you they believe them to be medically necessary. For some women, any risk of rupture is too much. And I respect that, because risk tolerance is a very personal thing, and far be it for any of us (IMNSHO) to tell her she should have been willing to take the risk.

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#3 of 41 Old 02-10-2007, 01:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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[QUOTE=Sagesgirl;7261094] but I doubt the type of woman to have a medically unneccessary c-section is the type to hang out at a place like Mothering.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. thanks for your reply.

I keep reading about women who want to have a cs to avoid the pain of labor-as if recovering from a cs isn't painful!!

So I am writing my paper to argue against a c-section for the main purpose of avoiding labor pain and also to avoid things like urinary incontinence and fecal incontinence-some experts have linked both with other medical interventions during labor like episiotomies and use of forceps. From what I have been reading, the potential risks to both mom and baby of an "unnecessary" c-section just aren't worth it.
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#4 of 41 Old 02-10-2007, 01:39 AM
 
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I suggest looking around at http://www.obgyn.net/ and seeing if they have any information on it.

There's a publicly viewable mailing list there for birth professionals that I once spent hours surfing (looking for something else, but then it was so interesting ...) and some of the OBs on the list talked about patients who wanted elective C-sections and what they'd do.

Just btw (this is not exactly what you're looking for, I'm sure), I read two different interesting ethical questions there about elective C-sections:
1. A woman pregnant with an anencephalic baby who requested an immediate emergency c/s if the baby showed any distress, because she wanted to hold her baby while it was still alive.
2. A woman whose first child was born in a traumatic vaginal delivery with forceps and had cerebral palsy, who wanted a c/s to avoid any similar complications with her second child.

I think there is a gray area of women who want "elective" c-sections for reasons that are personal and/or medical, rather than just because they don't want to experience labor. I don't know if you're interested in addressing that or not.
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#5 of 41 Old 02-10-2007, 01:45 AM
 
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Well, my c/s was absolutely not medically necessary, and also absolutely not voluntary... I probably don't fit what you're after either!

I don't know what they put in my chart. They wanted me to consent to elective, I refused and insisted on going into labour to give my breech baby every possible chance to turn, and she didn't, so they rushed around panicked trying to get ready while I puffed through my pushes. I still find that amusing in a very ironic kind of way.
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#6 of 41 Old 02-10-2007, 01:56 AM
 
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There are two reasons in my records for my second section: fetal intolerance of labor (in my case, fetal intolerance of a CST), and elective repeat cesarean. Those are the only categories in the computer program that even remotely fit, and they don't fit all that well.

As far as elective section goes: well, are you talking primary or repeat? Repeat elective sections do have a certain attraction for a lot of people: you know what to expect, you know the date of your birth, your own provider will be there, you can more easily schedule child care in advance, and frankly they're pretty damn simple. These were not persuasive reasons for me, but I can see the appeal.

Primary elective sections I jsut don't get, and I had two of the easiest section recoveries in the world.

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#7 of 41 Old 02-10-2007, 04:57 AM
 
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Plenty of mainstream forums have long and involved discussions about why c-secs are being chosen and it's a horrifying morass of misinformation. Terribly sad. I'm sure you can think of some to go to
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#8 of 41 Old 02-10-2007, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks everyone!!!
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#9 of 41 Old 02-10-2007, 11:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pookel View Post
I suggest looking around at http://www.obgyn.net/ and seeing if they have any information on it.

There's a publicly viewable mailing list there for birth professionals that I once spent hours surfing (looking for something else, but then it was so interesting ...) and some of the OBs on the list talked about patients who wanted elective C-sections and what they'd do.

Just btw (this is not exactly what you're looking for, I'm sure), I read two different interesting ethical questions there about elective C-sections:
1. A woman pregnant with an anencephalic baby who requested an immediate emergency c/s if the baby showed any distress, because she wanted to hold her baby while it was still alive.
2. A woman whose first child was born in a traumatic vaginal delivery with forceps and had cerebral palsy, who wanted a c/s to avoid any similar complications with her second child.

I think there is a gray area of women who want "elective" c-sections for reasons that are personal and/or medical, rather than just because they don't want to experience labor. I don't know if you're interested in addressing that or not.

I just wanted to say that my cousin had a VERY traumatic vaginal birth experience with her first. She ended up with a fistula, along with many other serious complications (the baby was fine, though.). She didn't even want anymore children after it and took a VERY long time to recover. Her second child was a scheduled c/s and I honestly don't blame her.

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#10 of 41 Old 02-10-2007, 11:19 PM
 
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A friend of ours had a c-section for baby #1, and cs for baby #2, totally elective.
I really couldn't relate to it... I think it was a control thing for her, she wanted to know when, to plan, etc.
I think she has different feelings about her body... she also breastfed for a very short time. 6 weeks I think.
I find it hard not to judge...
otoh, she is a very loving dedicated mother to her children.

Mama to my 2 boys
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#11 of 41 Old 02-10-2007, 11:24 PM
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I had an ERCS for DD#1. I feel it was the right decision for me at that time and have no regrets. All throughout that pregnancy I had a strong feeling that I'd rupture if I attempted a VBAC, so I scheduled the surgery. Was it fear or intuition? Who knows?

I had a VBA2C with my 3rd pregnancy.
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#12 of 41 Old 02-10-2007, 11:47 PM
 
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I had an elective c/s with ds2 because of fear from first traumatic labor, and a complete lack of informed consent. I had no idea I was actually taking a 3x higher risk of maternal death by choosing surgery. Not a single word about it my whole pregnancy, the OB certainly didn't share any info about the risks of the two choices. True, I should have looked into it and due to my own hangups, I didn't. My OB's idea of informed consent sounded like this:

OB: So, are you thinking of a vaginal birth this time?
Me: Um, oh, I don't know, probably not...
OB: Ok.

End of conversation. Informed? I wasn't. I am now.

Right now I'm pg and planning a hba2c.
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#13 of 41 Old 02-10-2007, 11:56 PM
 
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Yeah, go to babycenter.com's forums... there are WAY too many women there who are electing cesareans for the STUPIDEST reasons (It hurts less (HAH!), it's safer for the baby (HAHAHAHA!), the baby will be smarter (Haha? HUH?), I don't want my vajayjay torn (sigh))... I've attempted and failed at "educating" them about studies that have been conducted, and even common knowledge among practically everybody (c/s doesn't hurt. there's no recovery period and they can have sex again wtihin a week. HUH?????).

I think some women are just crazy. I've concluded that. ARGH.
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#14 of 41 Old 02-11-2007, 11:41 AM
 
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Plenty of mainstream forums have long and involved discussions about why c-secs are being chosen and it's a horrifying morass of misinformation.
(Bolding mine) Absolutely right. Well put. And it is incredibly sad. I can't handle reading such things. It's depressing.

I had an "ERC" with my 2nd because I was not given informed consent at all. I was told that most likely I would rupture, & that she (the OB) just had a patient die in front of her from one. This was in 1998, I had no computer to do my own research, & I trusted that Dr.'s knew what they were talking about & gave you the facts.

 

  

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#15 of 41 Old 02-11-2007, 12:11 PM
 
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My c-section is listed as elective. It was scheduled and I had no labor. I "chose" to have this c-section because both my midwife and the doctor she worked with told me my baby was too big for me to give birth to, the fact that I was not in labor (past their due date for me) was a sign, the ultrasound showed she was >4000g, and the doctor told me I had a 20% chance of experiencing shoulder dystocia if I gave birth vaginally and that this could harm or even kill my baby. I did not want it, I cried and sobbed about it, and I have had PTSD and PPD because of it.
But, it is listed as "elective" on my medical records.
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#16 of 41 Old 02-11-2007, 01:30 PM
 
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You'll want to head on over to http://www.electivecaesarean.com/

Very pro-elective cesarean website. I think it's based in the UK.
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#17 of 41 Old 02-11-2007, 02:38 PM
 
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You'll want to head on over to http://www.electivecaesarean.com/

Very pro-elective cesarean website. I think it's based in the UK.
My blood pressure would go through the roof if I went over there. I hate seeing so many women being deceived by their (s)care providers. And that, I dare to say, is the majority of the reasons WHY women have elective cesareans.

 

  

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#18 of 41 Old 02-11-2007, 02:45 PM
 
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You'll want to head on over to http://www.electivecaesarean.com/

Very pro-elective cesarean website. I think it's based in the UK.
I can't go there either, ugh, what a trainwreck. It only makes it worse to see crud like that because I've been on both sides of the fence - before, I was pro-c/s and I know for a fact that attitude is based purely in fear, and now that I am past the fear it is really awful to see the fear paraded around and marketed to women proudly as empowerment and control. I learned what an illusion that is, I can't stand seeing it perpetuated. I won't even go there to lurk.
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#19 of 41 Old 02-11-2007, 11:41 PM
 
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Hi
I am just preggers...5 weeks and feel that I want a c/s. My first child was an emergency c/s...he was in distress w/o a heartbeat. He had swallowed meconium, which cuased a collapsed lung. As a result he spent 3.5 weeks in nicu and hospital. This time I just want my baby out and safe...call me crazy. I have't yet researched the topic yet, almost don't want too. I just want the c/s. We'll see

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#20 of 41 Old 02-12-2007, 12:13 AM
 
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I have't yet researched the topic yet, almost don't want too. I just want the c/s. We'll see
Here's some things to look at to get you started. Vaginal birth is much safer for you, & your baby!

http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/p...em.asp?ref=877

This talks about how babies born by c-section are 3x as likely to die:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5322782.stm

http://www.motherfriendly.org/Downlo...fact-sheet.pdf

I strongly encourage you to do the research.

Did your baby inhale the meconium or just swallowed it? They do a deep suctioning if there is meconium present & that can cause a collapsed lung. Also, CFM has been shown to be highly unreliable. What was your baby's apgar scores?

Have you read "Thinking women's guide" by Henci Goer? That's a great book to get some true facts about obstetric care.

 

  

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#21 of 41 Old 02-12-2007, 12:39 AM
 
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My c-section is listed as elective. It was scheduled and I had no labor.
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I did not want it, I cried and sobbed about it, and I have had PTSD and PPD because of it. But, it is listed as "elective" on my medical records.
:
My first section was done over my protests, when they discovered that ds1 was breech when I was 10cm dilated.

My second section was done when my doctors (GP & OB) bullied me into it when dd was found to also be breech at 39 weeks. She wasn't breech at 38. Despite the fact that she had turned during that week, my OB insisted that there was no possible way that she could turn now - she was too big. I argued with both doctors, then caved. (I'd been trying to have a second baby for 10 years, with only three miscarriages to show for it, and was highly susceptible to the emotional pressure.)

My third section was done after I fought my doctors for months for a VBA2C. At 41w, 4d, my OB kindly informed me that if I didn't hop back up on the table and get cut the following day, he'd drop me from care...I'd been experiencing prodomal labour for a week, and I panicked...so I caved again. That one's "elective", too.

I'm pregnant with number four right now, and my doctor's never going to know.

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Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

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#22 of 41 Old 02-12-2007, 01:34 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay, so I went to www.electivecesarean.com and I did get scared. Thanks for pointing me there, though, it was helpful and I'm still planning an hbac.
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#23 of 41 Old 02-12-2007, 01:40 AM
 
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(I'd been trying to have a second baby for 10 years, with only three miscarriages to show for it, and was highly susceptible to the emotional pressure.)
Oh my! I bet!!

With my third, I was told during an ultrasound that I had no amniotic fluid. The OB on call was so rude, & said the baby could die from cord compression. I was terrified of losing him....my hubby had a vasectomy after my second c-section, & this was our reversal baby. So I hopped up on the table very fast.

I think the majority of the time, we women make the decision of having a cesarean out of deep love for our babies. We tried the best we could, with the info we had at the time.

I will tell you this though....I'm going to find it very hard to hire a care provider for my next child. I plan on doing UP, & make my decision then.

 

  

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#24 of 41 Old 02-12-2007, 02:02 AM
 
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I logged in.... : Some of the reasons for a c/s are stupid, stupid... IE you can't recieve oral sex for a couple of months with vaginal due to infection risk.

LIKE that is any reason to have MAJOR surgery....

I'm a c/s mom, and will be having all c/s and I have BIG problems with that site.

Best quote over there.... re Elizabeth Hurley's scheduled c/s
Quote:
A medical spokesperson at the time: 'Like many busy women, she opted to have the CS rather than a long, painful labour.'
Cause a c/s is so very pain free ya know, and we are too busy to let babies come when they are ready, and we are too busy to be in labor. But 6 weeks of healing, we have time for that.
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#25 of 41 Old 02-12-2007, 03:17 AM
 
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IE you can't recieve oral sex for a couple of months with vaginal due to infection risk.
Hmm, I couldn't receive oral sex for a couple of months after my c-sections 'cause I was bleeding the whole time. Really no different from my vaginal birth.

As for recovery...I know a lot of women will disagree with me on this, but personally the recovery from my surgeries was a lot easier. One, I didn't have the stitches in my left labium from the repaired tear, and--much more importantly--my pelvis didn't really separate for my surgical births. I had no idea how much time it would take for my bones to settle back together, or for my ligaments to unstretch, or whatever the heck it is that goes on after a vaginal birth. All I know was that it felt like my hips were just going to fall out of their sockets as I walked. It was surreal.

Still, not IMO a reason to choose a surgical birth. If God had wanted my babies to come out that way, He'd have put a zipper there.

Sabra: Mama to Bobbie (3/02), Linda (1/04), Esther (10/05), Marie (11/10), & Douglas (11/12)

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#26 of 41 Old 02-12-2007, 01:00 PM
 
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i had i guess what was an elective c-section with my first......she as breech and despite all efforts she was not moving into a birthable position.

with this one i am concidering vbac but i must admit im very very scared i'll mess things up down there.....i already have a bladder problem that causes me lots of urethra pain....i dont know if i could handle crotch pain on top of that!

my OB is on board with letting my try VBAC i am just very very nervous i will do more damage
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#27 of 41 Old 02-12-2007, 01:34 PM
 
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I had an elective c/s with ds2 because of fear from first traumatic labor, and a complete lack of informed consent.
Same here.

My first "birth" involved Pitocin-induction at 42 weeks gestation with a long/closed cervix. I was on the Pitocin for about 24 hours and only got to 4cm, was labeled "failure to progress" and taken for a CS, only to lose about 700-800 cc's of blood during the surgery. I felt like a train wreck for about two months following.

When I got to 40 weeks with DS2, and was told that my cervix hadn't changed or softened (once again) and that the baby still had not dropped, I abandoned my wishes for a VBAC and elected for a repeat CS.

I have lots of regrets and wish I could do things over. I grew up in a mainstream community and then I joined the military. Although I was always somewhat outside the box with many of my personal ideas (BF, noCIRC, etc.), I had absolutely no idea that anything was available to me other than regular OB's and hospitals. Actually, considering time and place (SC in 1992 and NC in 1995), there truly may NOT have been any alternatives. No Internet, either.
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#28 of 41 Old 02-12-2007, 02:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jackie75 View Post
I had an "ERC" with my 2nd because I was not given informed consent at all. I was told that most likely I would rupture, & that she (the OB) just had a patient die in front of her from one. This was in 1998, I had no computer to do my own research, & I trusted that Dr.'s knew what they were talking about & gave you the facts.

This is *SO* true. Without access to information, all you have to go on is what the Drs. are telling you and you have to trust that they're being honest and forthright when IME, they're not. They're giving you only the info they want you to have to help you make the decision they want you to make.

*~* A * Mama to C and A * *~* I blog - PM me for the URL
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#29 of 41 Old 02-12-2007, 02:47 PM
 
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with this one i am concidering vbac but i must admit im very very scared i'll mess things up down there.....i already have a bladder problem that causes me lots of urethra pain....i dont know if i could handle crotch pain on top of that!

my OB is on board with letting my try VBAC i am just very very nervous i will do more damage
FWIW, I didn't have any bladder problems...until after my last section. I've got abdominal/pelvic nerve damage, and can barely feel my bladder, anymore. I guess when I have to go pee, and if I wait to long, I end up in pain - seems to be my overly-full bladder pressing on other organs, but I don't really know. I'm now almost 19 months out, and I regained a smidgeon of feeling a couple of months ago, but things are still really screwed up. I also have great difficulty doing any kind of exercise to develop core strength, because I can't feel a largeish chunk of my abdomen. This is all post-section damage.

I'm not sure how having someone cut us open prevents damage.

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

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#30 of 41 Old 02-12-2007, 06:01 PM
 
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FWIW, I didn't have any bladder problems...until after my last section. I've got abdominal/pelvic nerve damage, and can barely feel my bladder, anymore. I guess when I have to go pee, and if I wait to long, I end up in pain - seems to be my overly-full bladder pressing on other organs, but I don't really know. I'm now almost 19 months out, and I regained a smidgeon of feeling a couple of months ago, but things are still really screwed up. I also have great difficulty doing any kind of exercise to develop core strength, because I can't feel a largeish chunk of my abdomen. This is all post-section damage.

I'm not sure how having someone cut us open prevents damage.
my bladder problems are internal....i have IC....which means i am lacking the protective lining on the inside of my bladder and causes pain....i also have the ulcers that occure with this condition and my bladder bleeds when it is full....and my bladder and urethra in general just HURT sometimes....but luckly my IC has been in remission sence i've been pregnant!

it sucks and i have learned to live with it but it is totally not related to my c-section at all....i actually didnt start developing symptoms until Emma was 9 months old
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