People born by cesarian different than vaginally born people? - Mothering Forums

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Old 04-15-2007, 11:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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(DD wants me to chose the party icon.)

A long time ago, my mother told me that people who were born by cesarian were different than people born vaginally. She said they were more violent because they had not had the integrating touch of the birth canal and had a need to get people to hit them, so they would provoke people. I don't know what her source was, but it sounds like a crock to me. However, it's possible that there could be other effects. Has there ever been research on whether there are long term effects of being born surgically? Anyone have an idea on this?
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Old 04-16-2007, 02:00 AM
 
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I don't have any data but, as a c-section baby myself, I think that idea is a big pile of dog poop.
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Old 04-16-2007, 02:01 AM
 
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I have heard of birth trauma issues relating to cesarean births. I have heard people say that their children couldn't stand the feel of things around their necks (like tight shirts), that they were clausterphobic, and a couple other things that the mothers felt like related to birth trauma and possibly not passing through the birth canal. I haven't heard the one about people being more violent that were born by cesarean. It does sound like a crock to me.

And, as far as birth trauma goes, it seems that people born from any less-than-gentle birth (forceps, vacuum, super long pushing phase, etc.) could experience this, not only cesarean births.

As far as not passing through the birth canal, there are lots of cesareans done when the mother has pushed for a long time and the baby is actually sort of stuck IN the birth canal (like my DD).

I do know that some people have cranio-sacral therapy done on their babies/children for birth trauma reasons.

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Old 04-16-2007, 02:07 AM
 
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She said they were more violent because they had not had the integrating touch of the birth canal and had a need to get people to hit them, so they would provoke people.
So like a sensory integration dysfunction? Or they like to be spanked in a sexual way? Or do they go around getting into bar fights?

I was born by c-section and have been told I had an anger management problem by my sister, who was also born by c-section. I had a long trial of labor, however, and she did not. Hmmmm. I also suffered head injuries as a youngster, so it's hard to break all the different factors out.
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Old 04-16-2007, 02:12 AM
 
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I have heard of birth trauma issues relating to cesarean births. I have heard people say that their children couldn't stand the feel of things around their necks (like tight shirts), that they were clausterphobic, and a couple other things that the mothers felt like related to birth trauma and possibly not passing through the birth canal. I haven't heard the one about people being more violent that were born by cesarean. It does sound like a crock to me.
My claustrophobia and not being able to stand tight shirts around my neck stems entirely from wrestling (100% voluntarily) with my dad and little brother on a bed still covered in sheets and ending up tangled in the sheets.

I also had sensory integration dysfunction and responded to frustration by wanting to punch things (and people'd be best if I could do it without hurting them). Of course, dh was born vaginally and is the same way, so take from that what you will.
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Old 04-16-2007, 05:21 AM
 
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So like a sensory integration dysfunction? Or they like to be spanked in a sexual way? Or do they go around getting into bar fights?

I was born by c-section and have been told I had an anger management problem by my sister, who was also born by c-section. I had a long trial of labor, however, and she did not. Hmmmm. I also suffered head injuries as a youngster, so it's hard to break all the different factors out.
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Old 04-16-2007, 09:52 AM
 
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Well that sounds like rubbish to me but we do know some things about babies born by surgery. First off, their intestinal flora is different and continues to be at least until they're 8 or so and I see no reason why it wouldn't continue to be different given how bugs colonise us as newborns. Also their rates of allergies and asthma are higher than those born vaginally. There are probably brain differences too given the lack of brain squish occurring in a c-sec but we can't yet measure that. The recent article on microbleeds was interesting on that subject.
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:35 AM
 
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So far though, my babes are both gentle loving folk, ds, born vaginally, is your typically yang 3-year-old boy, and dd, extracted by surgery, is the sweetest cuddliest giggly social creature I could hope to know. the only thing about her that even surprised me is that she prefers to go to sleep by herself. I'll keep you posted as my kids grow LOL!
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:50 AM
 
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Total garbage! There's SO much that makes us who we are...c-sec. babies are not prone to being violent...that's just idiotic. :

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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Old 04-16-2007, 12:50 PM
 
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I dunno... my ds is one of the most nurturing little boys anyone has ever met. So no damage done there!
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Old 04-16-2007, 02:35 PM
 
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I honestly think that natural birth advocates do themselves a disservice by claiming far reaching outcomes from c-section. I say sticking to the immediate costs and risks as well as the reseach based longer term outcomes/risks is a far more convincing route. I think any connection between c-section and aggression/violence is a wanabe old wives tale. Wanabe in that it does not even rise to the level of an old wives tale. Until I see some evidence based research, I am calling it pure dung. :

And of course, there are always anecdotes that contradict...I was born vaginally, no pain meds, in the car on a hb transfer (meconium present in waters) and I was the biggest, meanest bully my elementary had ever seen.

Katie, mama to one big boy (6/03) and one little boy (12/08).
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Old 04-16-2007, 02:45 PM
 
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Y'know, when your first, visceral reaction to something is, "What a load of bull!", it probably is.

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Old 04-16-2007, 02:51 PM
 
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Most c sections are not planned (yet), so the baby does spend time (sometimes a **long** time) being massaged in the birth canal.

That sounds litke utter and reachig nonsense to me.

I don't even buy the gut stuff unless the child was removed before labor began.
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Old 04-16-2007, 04:07 PM
 
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I totally agree...personality/character/health/etc is SO MUCH MORE than a question of "how" you are born. Or the specific circumstances of your birth.

But it reminds me of the scene in Monk...Tony Shaloub's character says something like "I was born vaginally but raised cesarean". Now that might explain a few people I know...

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Old 04-16-2007, 04:26 PM
 
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i was born in an emergency c-section and i don't think it has made me violent in fact i am a pacifist by nature and always have been and no one in my family is and i was encouraged to fight as a child but i refused. (i was encouraged to hit back when kids would beat me up in school which happened a lot because the kids knew i would not fight back and for other reasons)

i do however think i suffered some birth trauma not from the c-section alone but because i was born in a very traumatic way, a doctor tried to do a version on my mom and ruptured the placenta. i was born premature as a result and my mom had to have several blood transfusions. the whole thing was traumatic for both of us.

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Old 04-16-2007, 05:19 PM
 
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I was a cesarean baby. I had fairly serious anger management problems in my teens, but they were definitely hormonal in nature. I wasn't violent as a child or as an adult.

I am mildly claustrophobic, and have been for as long as I can remember. But, I do also have a memory of my big brother pinning me while playing, and feeling as though I couldn't breathe. I have no idea if that predates my claustrophobia or not.

I think most of these things are a pretty big reach. There are just so many factors that affect how a child's personality develops. If being delivered by c-section has any long-term effects, I believe they would be almost impossible to pin down.


ETA: I didn't have the benefits of labour, either. I was a repeat because in 1968 "once a cesarean, always a cesarean".

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Old 04-16-2007, 05:25 PM
 
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I was born by emergency c-section. I'm really mellow
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Old 04-16-2007, 05:52 PM
 
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I was a c/s baby, and have had anger issues and am not a very "touchy" kind of person, but I'll never know for sure what aspects of my personality are a result of my own birthing experience. There are just too many other contributing factors to consider.
I do, however, beleive whole-heartedly that the environment into which we are born does have an effect on us as newborns, as do some factors of the pregnancy itself... that's part of the reason for my wanting to be a doula.

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Old 04-16-2007, 06:11 PM
 
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It sounds like another birthing is SO much more superior to C section route, only instead of using facts lets make them feel bad
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Old 04-16-2007, 08:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Shorin_Mama View Post
I don't have any data but, as a c-section baby myself, I think that idea is a big pile of dog poop.
That's what I was going to say!

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Old 04-16-2007, 08:19 PM
 
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My brother, sister and I were all born by c-section, and I really don't think that "more violent" description fits any of us.

Mama to James 4-05 and Leland 7-07, and feeling so privileged to be growing kiddo #3 due in September!
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Old 04-16-2007, 08:21 PM
 
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In the 1980s, Dr. Bertil Jacobson in Sweden did a study of traumatic births involving suicides and studied these people for birth trauma. She found many cord problems (strangulation) and forceps (mechanical means) among many of the suicide cases. The cases were of people born between 1945-80 born in seven hospitals in Stockholm who committed suicide by violent means from 1978-95.

This does not answer your question about caesarean sections, but somewhere down the road, someone will do this study. Much may rely on the reasons for the caesarean birth and whether or not it was a scheduled surgery.
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Old 04-16-2007, 08:27 PM
 
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Gee, last time I checked people born by cesarian were still people who had been born. Have all these people who haven't been born vaginally- are they actually reptiles who were hatched?

Ah, just picture it:

Happy Hatchday to you
happy hatchday to you
happy hatchday dear "different from a regular person"
happy hatchday to you.


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Old 04-16-2007, 08:37 PM
 
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It sounds like another birthing is SO much more superior to C section route, only instead of using facts lets make them feel bad
Last time I checked... having a c/s is giving birth....
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Old 04-16-2007, 08:41 PM
 
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Last time I checked... having a c/s is giving birth....
Of course it is!

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Old 04-16-2007, 10:22 PM
 
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Last time I checked... having a c/s is giving birth....
I guess that depends on your definitions. I've never given birth and I have three biological children.

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
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Old 04-16-2007, 10:31 PM
 
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I am sorry that you feel that way, Storm Bride. s to you. I am sure you are a wonderful mother!

My never to be humble opinion is that women give birth and grapefruits are sectioned.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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Old 04-16-2007, 10:42 PM
 
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It sounds like another birthing is SO much more superior to C section route, only instead of using facts lets make them feel bad
Yep, that's exactly my thought as well.

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Old 04-17-2007, 01:17 AM
 
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I guess that depends on your definitions. I've never given birth and I have three biological children.
I'm with you. I birthed my son. My daughter was certainly born, but I was denied the priviledge of birthing her. I hope some day I may feel differently, but I doubt it. The experiences are just too distant from each other.
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Old 04-17-2007, 01:49 AM
 
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I birthed my son via c-section, and no one had better try to tell me differently. Call your own c-sections what you want, but MINE was a birth.
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