upset--my cousin has scheduled an elective primary cesarean - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 38 Old 04-24-2007, 02:20 AM
 
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I don't consider my csection a birth but would never decide for another woman what they experienced.

I am all about choices. I just want them to be informed. The op hinted her cousin is scheduling a csection because she is afraid of labor, not because of medical reasons. If that is true, that is not an informed choice. Her doctor is doing her a huge disservice by not being honest with her. She ought to know that maternal death rates are higher for csections. She ought to know that going into labor, even if then followed by a csection, is good for the baby, it helps squeeze fluids out of their lungs. She ought to know that she may schedule the csection too early, not knowing her dates were off, in which case the baby might be premature. Those are just a few off the top of my head. At this point the op doesn't have any reason to believe her cousin's reason for choosing a csection is medical.

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#32 of 38 Old 04-24-2007, 02:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ks Mama View Post
I truly wasn't aware that crippling infections post-surgery were the norm.
They aren't.

Well, I guess that depends on how you define 'norm'. With unplanned c-section, the post-op infection rate is about 25%. That includes ALL infections, even minor ones that are treated with topical antibiotics, not just those requiring re-hospitalization with IV antibiotics. The ones requiring re-hospitalization with IV antibiotics would be what *I* would personally consider to be a 'crippling infection', but I've seen women here saying their infection was treated by a topical ointment and for whatever reason that was a huge deal for them.

With planned c-section, the overall infection rate is about 8%, again that figure includes ALL infections from very minor to very serious.

Neither of those figures constitutes what I would personally consider as 'the norm' as that would indicate to me that at least half or more were affected by it, and that's just not the case.

FWIW, I've had three c-sections myself and never had a single complication. If infections were 'the norm', I figure I would have had at least one out of three.
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#33 of 38 Old 04-24-2007, 04:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ericswifey27 View Post

I am all about choices. I just want them to be informed. The op hinted her cousin is scheduling a csection because she is afraid of labor, not because of medical reasons. If that is true, that is not an informed choice. Her doctor is doing her a huge disservice by not being honest with her. She ought to know that maternal death rates are higher for csections. She ought to know that going into labor, even if then followed by a csection, is good for the baby, it helps squeeze fluids out of their lungs. She ought to know that she may schedule the csection too early, not knowing her dates were off, in which case the baby might be premature. Those are just a few off the top of my head. At this point the op doesn't have any reason to believe her cousin's reason for choosing a csection is medical.


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#34 of 38 Old 04-24-2007, 09:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mama2jack View Post
If she is wanting a cs because she is afraid of the pain I can tell you there is nothing more frightening or painful than a cs. I went into labor on my own and while my labor was painful there was no comparison to the pain I felt during my recovery. I ended up getting an infection in my uterus that landed me back in the hospital. I could not even breathe without pain let alone care for and enjoy my new son . I would do my best to encorage her to avoid one without making her more afraid than she already is.
I agree. Before my C/S, I did 23 hours of Pitocin-augmented posterior back labor without drugs, puking my guts out with the urge to push for the last 5 hours of it, and I have to say I would rather do it over twice again than have another C/S. The C/S (while momentarily a relief at the time) and the terrifying recovery (hemmorage, blood transfusion, infection, not being able to bf for a week and a half bc of SUPER STRONG antibiotics, them not knowing what was wrong, being hooked to IVs and poked with needles repeatedly...) everything was much worse, more painful and harder to deal with than labor. I'm not even counting the inscision pain, the numbness surrounding the scar (still), and they cut my crooked...tell her she'll always have a flap of skin hanging over her scar, maybe that will change her mind.

Seriously, the emotional scars-being separated from the baby at the beginning and again when I had complications, not being able to take care of him, not being the first or second or even tenth person to hold him, the feelings of failure and guilt and anger and fear, linger for years. (of course that would only be an issue if she changed her mind after she had the C/S)

I talk about this is in more detail in my IM SO ANGRY thread that's floating around here somewhere....

I know how personally it can hit. I mentioned this in another post, but I've actually had people who claim to be natural-minded and pro-natural childbirth, people who had easy, quick labors, voice their confusion about why I would want to go through "that" kind of labor again. How they hope since I'm so crazy to TRY another vaginal birth, that I "give in" to the C/S a lot quicker this time.

People just don't understand. "you had a healthy pregnancy and you're safe and healthy and didn't have any long term health problems and you have a healthy safe child, what's the big deal?" They either haven't experienced it so they really can't comprehend it, or they are misinformed (it's kind of trendy to have an elective primary C/S these days--posh, progressive women are doing them, you see.)--they really think it's safe and a normal choice for birth--or in denial.

I will admit I didn't think it was a big deal when it first happened to me. : I professed that I would have a ERC with my next child. I really just didn't want to deal with everything, I think. I told myself that line "what's the big deal?" Fortunately I had a shift in thinking, which brought a lot of pain (having to face it) but will also bring empowerment when I have my vaginal birth in Sept or October.

I will also admit I honestly did NOT know all the risks that C/S presents until I started comparing stats while preparing for my VBAC. The general public is pretty uninformed about the actual, medical risks. I think the pain of labor is something else that people are uninformed about. It's made out to be this huge deal, which creates a lot of fear and apprehension.

So, all in all.... hugs, mama. She will either change her mind, and you will have to watch her willlingly do the thing to herself that has hurt you so much, or else she will change her mind and try for a vaginal, and there's about a 30% chance she'll end up with a C/S anyway. She will either be ok with that for the rest of her life, or else she will come round and have a lot of grief and sorrow at choosing an unnecisarry C/S. Any way it plays, if you're close enough to her, you could talk calmly about the risks, and leave it at that....otherwise, you could work on your own issues. That was the thing I dreaded the most about getting pregnant with my second child, even though we were TTC. I wanted to stay in my denial and put off that range of nasty emotions for as long as possible. :

Pondering whether to actually post this, but I will since I just typed it out. Kinda just let my thoughts come pouring out, so there you have it....

There is also a growth and healing chat thread for c-sec mamas in the growth and healing forum. I've not read it all yet, but I'm working thru it.
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#35 of 38 Old 04-24-2007, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So, all in all.... hugs, mama. She will either change her mind, and you will have to watch her willlingly do the thing to herself that has hurt you so much,
this really hit home. this is exactly it. it hurts to think of someone willingly signing up for something that was so traumatic for me. i know some people think i'm being judgmental and are taking my post to mean that i want to limit her childbirth choices, but that's not at all true. it just hurts me to hear about someone wanting this.

my goal has never been to talk her out of her section, but to get myself to the point where other people's decisions don't upset me so much.
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#36 of 38 Old 04-24-2007, 11:57 PM
 
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No, it is, period. I feel awful for your traumatic experience and wish nobody had to go through something like that, but it doesn't mean that women who give birth by C-section didn't give birth, for goodness' sake. And frankly I'm having trouble understanding why anyone would say something like that to other mothers: "Sure, you have a baby, and maybe you even went through labor and pushing, but because you eventually had a C-section, you didn't really give birth." That just seems divisive and hurtful to me.
For YOU it is, but on the flip side I find it hurtful and divisive when folks insist that my c/s was a "birth". For ME it's not...it's anything but giving birth. Feel free to call yours a birth all you want, but don't assume that we all feel the same as you.

As far as infections being "atypical". I wasn't just referring to infections. What I was referring to is the fact that a rough recovery from your c/s (for any number of reasons) is not atypical. Recovery was hellish for me and it's not an expereince that I EVER want to repeat.

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Originally Posted by ericswifey27
I am all about choices. I just want them to be informed. The op hinted her cousin is scheduling a csection because she is afraid of labor, not because of medical reasons. If that is true, that is not an informed choice. Her doctor is doing her a huge disservice by not being honest with her. She ought to know that maternal death rates are higher for csections. She ought to know that going into labor, even if then followed by a csection, is good for the baby, it helps squeeze fluids out of their lungs. She ought to know that she may schedule the csection too early, not knowing her dates were off, in which case the baby might be premature. Those are just a few off the top of my head. At this point the op doesn't have any reason to believe her cousin's reason for choosing a csection is medical.
Exactly!!
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#37 of 38 Old 04-25-2007, 02:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pampered_mom View Post
For YOU it is, but on the flip side I find it hurtful and divisive when folks insist that my c/s was a "birth". For ME it's not...it's anything but giving birth. Feel free to call yours a birth all you want, but don't assume that we all feel the same as you.
I accept and respect that, but would gently suggest that those who feel this way tell people, "I don't consider my C-section to have been a birth," rather than, "I don't consider C-sections to be births."
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#38 of 38 Old 04-25-2007, 03:13 PM
 
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majormajor I haven't read the entire thread, but I understand how difficult it is to see someone sign up for a cesarean for no medical reason. I've personally had to fight HARD for my right to VBAC twice now. Since my last cesarean birth, I've become a student doula. It's against my nature to see someone making decisions without all the info and just being okay with it. As a doula, I take an active roll in making sure the expectant moms that have hired me have all the proper info so they can make the best decisions for themself. Yes, my personal experiences have influenced me... but I think that it's for the best. To me, if I saw something that was going to (or could) hurt someone....and didn't say anything.... I would feel responsible for not speaking up. This goes with every situation- not just birth. I think your feelings are very valid and you don't have to be okay with it.... but understand it is her choice. Perhaps your cousin doesn't really understand what the pros and cons of a cesarean birth are. If you would like to take an active role in making sure she has all the info to make the best decision for herself... maybe give her a copy of the: 2006 Revised What Every Pregnant Woman Needs to Know About Cesarean Section

Even before I became a doula, I talked to many women (friends, acquantainces, and family members) about their birth options and the pros and cons of each. I always felt better after I knew they had the proper information to make their decisions. On several occasions, the mother went ahead and scheduled the cesarean birth or induction.... but I felt better with it because I knew they had made the decision after getting all the info. It is their decision after all, even though it's not necessarly the decision I would have made.
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