"I'm a c-section advocate..." - Mothering Forums

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Old 11-16-2007, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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"I just love c-sections!"

This was out of the mouth of my clinical instructor today (nursing school). I cant even belive that this woman, A NURSE, who is influencing the way 80 students will practice nursing and view medicine is spewing junk like this. arghhhhh!

Of course only myself and one other women are mothers so there are 70-something women in the classroom hearing that their teacher loves c-sections. I of course couldnt keep my mouth shut and said:

"I dont, its the worse thing that i have ever gone through and i wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy."

lol..ok so maybe alittle much but hearing her say that really got me heated!

-Erin
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:43 PM
 
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Grrr.. I completely understand how mad that must make you! Has this woman ever had a c-section HERSELF? Seems mighty hypocritical to be advocating major elective abdominal surgery for OTHER people when you haven't been through it yourself.

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Old 11-16-2007, 06:50 PM
 
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Flabbergasted...

-Iris
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:55 PM
 
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What was her response to that? I'm accepted into my local nursing program, and I can't wait to get started. My state has one of the highest section rates in the country. :
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:58 PM
 
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I don't think I would have been able to refrain from throwing a texbook at her. You have more self restraint than I do.
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:04 PM
 
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Well gee, I love the fact that medically necessary c-sections that save the lives of mothers and/or babies, but since only 1/3 to 1/2 of the ones we have qualify as medically necessary, I guess I couldn't really love all c-sections. I know I hated mine (it was unnecessary).

That is like saying "I am an apendectomy advocate! I love apendectomies! Everyone should have one!"
:

Except it is more invasive than an apendectomy.
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:09 PM
 
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Well that's...odd. What did she mean by that exactly? She loves to observe them? She loves them for herself?

When I was in nursing school I found the surgical procedure itself kind of interesting (in a facinating kind of way) to watch. Same way I did heart surgery or something. But I wasn't sitting there crossing my fingers and praying that the woman get a c-section just so I could observe because I "just love" them so much. I don't really love them to the point of recommending them and wanting people to have them. I was mainly just facintated by the "surgery" part of it. Seeing the actual uterus and the baby coming out ect... Admittedly I was 20 y/o, had never had surgery or a child of my own yet. I didnt' understand or empathize with all the feelings that surround pregnancy and birth.

Now that I work as a nurse and have had one myself, having to attend them just makes me squeamy. I look at what I need to and nothing more. I tend to feel more for the mother. I see a person on that table that is probably scared and unsure and worried about her unborn baby, instead of just a "case" to watch.

Maybe she just meant that she found them interesting to watch. I enjoyed my OR rotation when I was in nursing school. I learned alot and did enjoy being able to see surgeries being done. That doesn't mean that I advocate unnecessary c-sections or am glad that someone got into a car accident and needed surgery. I don't think that makes me a bad person.
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:22 PM
 
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Did she actually say "I'm a c-section advocate...I just love c-sections" or did she just say "I just love C-sections". If she declared the latter...then I take back what I said. That is just wrong and odd.

I'm glad that they are there when needed, but why ADVOCATE for it. Especially when it's not YOUR body that is being cut?!

People sure are strange.
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:42 PM
 
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My mom has said that very thing and she has had 4 C-sections. I have met other mothers who say the same thing, all of them have had nothing but C-sections. They thought it was much better than having to labor and wonder when the baby would come. My mom doesn't really say anything like that to me any more and I made it pretty clear that she is not welcome at my house until after my son is born Naturally. I think my first labor would have been much faster and more productive if she wasn't there. I didn't want her there but she disregarded my wishes and since she had purchased plane tickets we didn't make her leave. Interestingly, she hasn't been out to my house to visit my daughter since then. WTF?

Ugh, I hate C-section advocates...seriously, it's a whole way of thinking about children and responsibility and it is seriously flawed.

-Iris
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:55 PM
 
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I will admit my C-section wasn't as horrible as I imagined. My recovery was pretty unremarkable, BFing went okay and I wasn't really in labor long enough to feel the pain of giving birth vaginally before they decided I "needed" a c-section. I've heard the recovery from a NVB is much easier and better...that makes perfect sense. And I will admit that at the time, I didn't have any visions or expectations of what I wanted my birth to be. When it came down to it...both options scared the heck out of me. I can understand how a laboring women can feel powerless, because that is exactly how I felt at the time...scared and powerless. They made it sound as though my baby was in grave danger...and I was worried about her, not me. But I can't legitimately compare the two based on my own experience.

I get so annoyed when people who have had nothing but c-sections recommend them to others by declaring how much they "loved" thiers. I don't even elaborate on mine when people ask. I just tell them what happened. I probably make it sound more negative than what my actual experience was though...I dont' want to seem like I'm promoting it as the "way to go".
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Old 11-16-2007, 08:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Did she actually say "I'm a c-section advocate...I just love c-sections" or did she just say "I just love C-sections". If she declared the latter...then I take back what I said. That is just wrong and odd.

I'm glad that they are there when needed, but why ADVOCATE for it. Especially when it's not YOUR body that is being cut?!

People sure are strange.
We had a lecture on pain meds and were talking about constipation due to Percocette. I mentioned that when i had my daughter i was extremly constipated and that it was horrible. She then said "I've had 2 c-sections and i am a c-section advocate, i love c-sections."

Part of me thinks that when women say that it is just a coping mechanism....i mean is it REALLY possible for a woman to WANT that? I guess there are those out there, but i just cant understand it. I know as a mother she most likely have meant it as she had to have a c-section her first then a repeat for her second. I would tend to think that most nurses dont have homebirths/midwives etc....so she just went with the advice of the doctor. I guess when you have no choice you HAVE to look at the positives and its just easier to feel happy about something that you cant change.

BUT....the thing that made me so mad is that she is an INSTRUCTOR in a nursing school, and that this type of remark will influence a lot of people.

Where are all the crunchy nurses? This profession needs me! lol
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Old 11-16-2007, 08:27 PM
 
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Good for you for saying something! It's so sad is all I have to say about her.:

Rachel~wife to Keith since 5/01~mother to Georgia since 4/04~Bishop since 1/06~Zoe since 11/07 (my HBA2C!)~EDD 2/14/10 w/Baby surprise #4
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Old 11-16-2007, 08:32 PM
 
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This thread caught my eye --

Quote:
I would tend to think that most nurses dont have homebirths/midwives etc....so she just went with the advice of the doctor. I guess when you have no choice you HAVE to look at the positives and its just easier to feel happy about something that you cant change.

BUT....the thing that made me so mad is that she is an INSTRUCTOR in a nursing school, and that this type of remark will influence a lot of people.

Where are all the crunchy nurses? This profession needs me! lol
My sister (an RN) has several friends who've birthed with midwives and/or at home (I think one UC'd). So while there are some very "Doctor knows best" nurses, there are also some who are quite homeopathic, crunchy, etc. My sister had her three med-free at the hospital but she told me the other day that if she had another, she'd have the baby at home.

The more your classmates hear your perspective, the more they'll dial back to that later I'd say. Keep asking your instructors questions/clarifications etc. and that'll help the unquestioning ones start wondering.

Not all who wander are lost.
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Old 11-16-2007, 08:37 PM
 
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I think it's wrong and irresponsible for a medical professional to advocate for anything that is medically unnecessary. Especially just based on her personal experience. Mine wasn't horrific, but I didn't "love" it either. I know people who have had really bad experiences with thier sections. Just because mine was "okay" doesn't mean yours is going to be. What is there to "love" so much about surgery that you would go around recommending it to people that don't necessarily need it? It's not like were talking about breast implants or lipo here.

I don't consider myself a "crunchy nurse" but I don't agree with pushing my beliefs on patients and promoting medically unnecessary surgeries. It's not about being "crunchy" it's about being ethical. I would feel like crap, if someone decided on an elective C-section because I raved about how wonderful it was and ended up having really bad complications.

I don't like that anymore than I do women that scare other pregnant woman with stories about how awful their vaginal deliveries were and how they would never do "that" again. Giving birth is a highly personal experience. Every womans experience and feelings are different, no matter how the baby came out.
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Old 11-16-2007, 08:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by elanorh View Post
This thread caught my eye --



My sister (an RN) has several friends who've birthed with midwives and/or at home (I think one UC'd). So while there are some very "Doctor knows best" nurses, there are also some who are quite homeopathic, crunchy, etc. My sister had her three med-free at the hospital but she told me the other day that if she had another, she'd have the baby at home.

The more your classmates hear your perspective, the more they'll dial back to that later I'd say. Keep asking your instructors questions/clarifications etc. and that'll help the unquestioning ones start wondering.
I would say that my being a nurse has really opened my eyes to how flawed the medical model of doing things can be. I tend to question things more.
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Old 11-16-2007, 09:23 PM
 
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I have had 2 c/s that the recovery and actual surgery have went very well for. I still cannot stand to hear people say that they advocate major abdominal surgery over natural childbirth. I happened to be talking to a group of women not too long ago and we were talking about a family member of mine who had an unassisted birth. I don't get into it too much with these women because they are so clueless, but I was answering a few questions and this woman pipes up, probably the soggiest woman I know, and says, "Well I am 100% for c/s and recommend them whenever I can" Of course I had to speak up then and said, "well I am 100% for natural childbirth". Most of the women in the group jumped down my throat saying I was putting them down for their "necessary" c/s. It's people like that that influence these woman who can't do their own research and follow someone in the medical profession blindly. One of the women said her c/s was necessary because her body just didn't do labor, she was induce 2 x's and nothing happend! Imagine that.: Anyhow sorry to make this my own rant, but I DESPISE when people go around acting like c/s are all sugar and spice.

Sara proud mommy to Kaiden 9/24/2004, Carter 4/10/2007 and Anniston 12/4/2009
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Old 11-16-2007, 09:34 PM
 
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Part of me thinks that when women say that it is just a coping mechanism....i mean is it REALLY possible for a woman to WANT that? I guess there are those out there, but i just cant understand it. I know as a mother she most likely have meant it as she had to have a c-section her first then a repeat for her second. I would tend to think that most nurses dont have homebirths/midwives etc....so she just went with the advice of the doctor. I guess when you have no choice you HAVE to look at the positives and its just easier to feel happy about something that you cant change.

BUT....the thing that made me so mad is that she is an INSTRUCTOR in a nursing school, and that this type of remark will influence a lot of people.

Where are all the crunchy nurses? This profession needs me! lol
I know someone that has said from day one of her pregnancy that she WISHED she could just choose a c/s but her dr. wouldn't allow that. She would try and come up with something every appointment to get them to just schedule a c/s. She finally got her wish because her baby was supposed to be "large" and she was borderline HBP: She delivered and her baby was 6lbs 4ozs.... She still wants only c/s and would never consider a vbac. That being said, I do feel like, for most women, it is a coping mechanism. I can't in my right mind figure out why someone would choose that unless they had deeper issues stemming from abuse in their past.

Sara proud mommy to Kaiden 9/24/2004, Carter 4/10/2007 and Anniston 12/4/2009
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Old 11-16-2007, 09:45 PM
 
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"I just love c-sections!"

This was out of the mouth of my clinical instructor today (nursing school). I cant even belive that this woman, A NURSE, who is influencing the way 80 students will practice nursing and view medicine is spewing junk like this. arghhhhh!

Of course only myself and one other women are mothers so there are 70-something women in the classroom hearing that their teacher loves c-sections. I of course couldnt keep my mouth shut and said:

"I dont, its the worse thing that i have ever gone through and i wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy."

lol..ok so maybe alittle much but hearing her say that really got me heated!

-Erin
I'm really glad you said that. My C-section affected me in a very powerful way. It was one of the most difficult experiences of my life, and I still deal with the "loss" of my perfect birth.
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Old 11-16-2007, 10:12 PM
 
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I think c-sections certainly are there for a reason, and I am very thankful that they are. With DS, he was complete breech. I was seeing midwives at the time and the midwife that I had been seeing in the practice kept telling me that his head was down. Well....at 37 weeks I saw a different midwife and she told me that she thought she felt his butt down there. She did an u/s and sure enough - complete breech. They tried turning him, but he was very large (8 lb 7.5 oz) and I am pretty tiny through the abdomen. He was packed in there like a sardine. I HAD to have a c-section. If I would have tried to give birth to him as my first baby, he surely would have gotten stuck and then we really would have had an emergency situation. I was heartbroken. I was planning an all natural labor and birth, and c-section was as far on the opposite end of the spectrum as what I had in mind. I resigned myself to the fact that DS was going to come into the world by section, and decided that it really didn't matter one way or the other - as long as he got here healthy and safe.

With DD, I was with a new ob/gyn and she talked to me about doing VBAC. This was very unusual, because where we live VBACs just DO NOT happen. She looked through my chart and saw that the doctor who performed my section did a single layer suturing method, and she told me that it wasn't worth the risk of laboring with the single layer suture. So...I ended up with another section.

All that being said...I had really great experiences with both of my sections. After the first 24 hours I was only on ibuprofen and was moving around very quickly. I have an extremely high tolerance for pain, which kind of makes me sad that I couldn't labor!! LOL

I also have a sister who tried to have her son naturally. His heartrate kept dropping and she ended up with an emergency section. He was born with an APGAR of 1. After 3 minutes it was 3 and after 5 minutes it was 5. Not good. He is almost 5 years old and has been diagnosed with autism. She is pretty sure it was from his oxygen deprivation during labor and his terrible entrance into this world. If she would have had a section right from the start, who knows how his life might be different today???

So, I truly feel that there are times when c-section must be used. I do think that maybe they are used too often, but without mine, my son would probably not be here. Without my sister's, her son would have died. So, I have to say that in our situations, we love c-sections too. They helped our children enter the world.
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Old 11-17-2007, 03:41 PM
 
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I had a c/s and likely will never have a VBAC And, while I can say that my c/s was medically necessary (transverse baby), I still do not love that I had one.

On the other hand, my aunt had a vaginal birth and then a c/s and she claims the c/s was easier/better : I obviously have nothing to compare to, but I have seen my friends who had v-births moving around, getting up and down off the floor days after their births while I could hardly sit up without assistance at first.

Why is this nurse advocating c-sections? a) she had one, b) knows that it's easier for the doctor, c) fewer perceived unknowns. But, easier for the doctor does not equal easier for the mother.

Furthermore, I think that hospital births and the behind-closed-doors secrecy of birth is what is scary to women, and why some elect primary cesareans. I have never seen a vaginal birth...hope to one day...but it seems that if natural births (at home) were commonplace, women would know what to expect, how to prepare, and see that the mom really does come through it all o.k. and that pain relief, IVs, labor augmentation, etc, etc are not necessary for a healthy mom and healthy baby.

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Old 11-17-2007, 04:10 PM
 
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Furthermore, I think that hospital births and the behind-closed-doors secrecy of birth is what is scary to women, and why some elect primary cesareans. I have never seen a vaginal birth...hope to one day...but it seems that if natural births (at home) were commonplace, women would know what to expect, how to prepare, and see that the mom really does come through it all o.k. and that pain relief, IVs, labor augmentation, etc, etc are not necessary for a healthy mom and healthy baby.
I have to say that all the time I laboured at home was a picnic compared to the very few hours that I was in the hospital this last time. That's the first time I've actually laboured at a hospital (first was an "emergency" section right after I got to the hospital after labouring at home, and the next two were scheduled repeats). It was awful. I'd happily trade 24 hours of labour at home for half an hour of labour at the hospital...and they were both still way better than a c-section, imo.

Mind you - I went and got my staples out yesterday. The woman at the OB's office said "you still seem a little sore" as I climbed on the table. She seemed surprised that I was still "sore" (try in excruciating pain) after a whole week...and when I said it's always been like that, she seemed shocked. I guess maybe I just don't cope with it so well...

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Old 11-18-2007, 04:26 AM
 
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so sad

C-sections are not always a picinic.
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Old 11-18-2007, 03:57 PM
 
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Blech. My coworkers have all had C-sections, and it pains me to hear them rhapsodize about them: "I didn't have to feel any contractions, it was great!" "My kids didn't have goofy-shaped heads!" UGH.
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Old 11-18-2007, 04:18 PM
 
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Blech. My coworkers have all had C-sections, and it pains me to hear them rhapsodize about them: "I didn't have to feel any contractions, it was great!" "My kids didn't have goofy-shaped heads!" UGH.
I hate this too. My MIL always says how my kids had such perfectly round c/s heads. When I was discussing the possibility of a rcs with my OB for DS #2 I said that I wanted to be allowed to go into labor on my own so he could have the benefits to his health that labor brings and she said, "why would you want to feel labor if you didn't have to?":

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Old 11-18-2007, 05:54 PM
 
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I think the fact that people are "fans" of c/s is a testament to how screwed up birth is in America. I have little doubt that a c/s might be easier and less painful for some...but, how many women are choosing b/t the convenience and perceived simplicity of a c/s as opposed to a really messed up, difficult, epis, tearing, etc. of a (induced) vaginal birth? Unfortunately, for too many women, they only know the medical model of birthing and just don't "get" there's a better way than that.

So many times when I hear someone say about how "awful" their vaginal birth was (often followed w/ "next time I am asking for a c/s"), I respond, "Was your birth induced?". They say, "Yes." GRRRRR!

We know there's a better way...unfortunately, most women don't. Including that instructor.
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Old 11-18-2007, 06:57 PM
 
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Ugh. That's thoroughly irritating. My cousin had an elective c-section because her baby was breach. They discovered it at like 36 weeks and didn't attempt to turn the baby or anything. Just scheduled the c. I would give ANYTHING to be able to turn back time and have my dd naturally. She was sunny-side-up and after 27 hours of labor and 3 hours of pushing, she just wasn't coming out, so I had an emergency c-section. I had my son VBAC and even though I tore pretty bad, it was still worlds better.

I've heard that c-section babies have more problems than other children. Trouble adapting, socializing, etc. I don't know what merit that has, but it certainly holds true for my c-section dh, me, and our 2 kids.

Tiffany, loving wife to Matt, Mommy to Samantha (10/99), Tevin (8/04), Cadence (6/08) and babymooning with our sweet little Lauren 6/24/10
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Old 11-18-2007, 07:01 PM
 
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And as for those who don't want to feel the "pain" of labor, why the heck even have a baby? They could forego all of the "pain" of pregnancy and a surgery by just adopting. :

Tiffany, loving wife to Matt, Mommy to Samantha (10/99), Tevin (8/04), Cadence (6/08) and babymooning with our sweet little Lauren 6/24/10
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Old 11-18-2007, 08:20 PM
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"I just love c-sections!"
:Puke

I think you said the right thing, the instructor needs to know that things are different on the other side of the knife.

"Isn't life a series of images that change as they repeat themselves?" - Andy Warhol
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Old 11-18-2007, 08:31 PM
 
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And as for those who don't want to feel the "pain" of labor, why the heck even have a baby? They could forego all of the "pain" of pregnancy and a surgery by just adopting. :
Or by not parenting at all. From what I've heard, adoption is a million times more emotionally painful than pg and childbirth could ever be.

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 13(homeschooled)
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Old 11-19-2007, 05:35 AM
 
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Continuing our collective rant...

I am so sick of people needing the easy way out of everything. Lifeisn't supposed to be easy or simple or luxurious or painless.

How on earth could we evolve without work and complexity and challenge and pain?

Why are we such namby-pambies? (Well, not us of course...)

Kate: fumbling through the best years with W, L, F & V...newest arrival coming Jan '11
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