Calling CPS over refusing ERCS? - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Background: I have two OB clinics. One is very close by and delivers at a hospital very close by. They do not support me having a VBAC. The other is Dr Tchabo and he is about 75-90 minutes from here in normal traffic, 3 hrs in rush hour. I am seeing him every two weeks just like the other guy, and hope to be able to deliver with him, but my labors are fast and fairly painless so I am keeping my options open for delivering. They both know about the other one, lol.

I had a routine appt with my non-VBAC-happy OB today. Once again he talked to me about how likely both I and baby are to die if I VBAC. At this point I said to him "If I present here and everything is going well and I am looking great, I will refuse a c/s".

He told me in that situation the hospital would call CPS and have it court ordered. He said "it doesnt happen often, but I have seen it done and have no doubt it will happen again".

I was pretty stunned at the time and left quickly, but now I am home and thinking about it, its quite scary. If for whatever reason I have another labor like with DD2, when I dont HAVE 2-3 hrs to mosey on up to a VBAC friendly place, it seems my only option is to be sectioned or have CPS called? Or is this another scare tactic and wont actually be done?

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#2 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 02:57 PM
 
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Have you had CS with your other children?

Blessed with two BEAUTIFUL little girls: Kylie (09/06) and Maggie (4/09) :
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#3 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 02:58 PM
 
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Mama,

They can and have forced women to undergo c-sections. If your physician is already threatening this I would RUN not walk away.

I highly recommend you read this:

http://www.advocatesforpregnantwomen..._c-section.htm
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#4 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My DS1 was a vaginal delivery, my twins were ECS due to being transverse/transverse and my DD was an ERCS due to her being "too big to deliver by VBAC" (diagnosed long before delivery started- I never tried to push her out...). All of those were at our last duty station, so totally different Dr's.

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#5 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 02:59 PM
 
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I think I'd stick with the farther away doc...and if babe comes so fast that you don't make it, great. Threats like that show how cut-happy he is.

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#6 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 03:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by momtoafireteam View Post
He told me in that situation the hospital would call CPS and have it court ordered. He said "it doesnt happen often, but I have seen it done and have no doubt it will happen again".
"I wish you would have told me earlier that you are pure evil, but I do appreciate the advanced warning. I am with drawing from your care as of this moment and you may consider this your due notice for sending any records contained in this office to my other OB."
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#7 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 03:23 PM
 
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YIKES!!!! I agree with the PP, RUN AWAY!!! What a knife-happy control freak! I'd take distance over that jerk any day!
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#8 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 03:27 PM
 
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OMG... why isn't his forcing a c/s considered abuse?? c/sections have WAY more risk for BABY AND MOTHER than a VBAC! I recommend reading "pushed"... she goes through a lot of statistical info in there.

Jenna ~ mommy to Sophia Elise idea.gif  (1/06), Oliver Matthew  blahblah.gif (7/07) and Avery Michael fly-by-nursing1.gif(3/10)

 

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#9 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 03:28 PM
 
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Honestly, this is why I choose to go into a hospital during labor unless I feel that I or the child are in immenient danger.

Can you switch to a local midwife?

Mom of a 7 yr old, 4 yr old, and 1 yr old. Wow. How did that happen?
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#10 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 03:29 PM
 
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Very scary I would definitley NOT return there. I'm sorry mama.
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#11 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 04:04 PM
 
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This is why I didn't set foot in a hospital for my second VBAC. The birth climate is increasingly hostile and no worries about getting anywhere on time when your care provider comes to you.

:
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#12 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 04:22 PM
 
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Well, your doc has made it pretty easy for you. Obviously, you have to ditch him. And I'd let him know exactly why! You don't have to get all emotional about it, but you can just say that you are going to have a VBAC and his practice of criminalizing moms who do so is innappropriate, unjustified, and immoral (or whatever you want to say!).

So, your options are that you can 1) have a homebirth, or 2) make the trek to Tchabo. If you choose to stay with Tchabo, and your baby comes before you get to the hospital, so what? Babies that come quickly and easily are not the problem! You could even hire a midwife to make the trek with you to the hospital, so that you feel better if you deliver along the way.
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#13 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 05:26 PM
 
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I'd remind him that case history is not on their side. Remind him of cases like Angela Carder - do they really want to go through the hassel of the appeal? Angela Carder's family won an undisclosed monetary award. In Meador v. Stahler and Gheridian, Meador won $1.5 million dollars for having a medically unnecessary cesarean that she clearly indicated she did not want.

ICAN also talks about it on their website.

Remind him also that such tactics are against his own professional organizations ethical guidelines as well as those of the AMA. ACOG's wording is actually pretty strong. I'd print out the document and highlight in the first paragraph where they state:

Quote:
Efforts to use the legal system to protect the fetus by constraining pregnant women's decision making or punishing them erode a woman's basic rights to privacy and bodily integrity and are not justified.
Bottom line...he's trying to scare you into making the decision he wants you to do and very likely is bluffing. I wouldn't under any circumstances choose to birth with him as my cp, but before leaving care I'd let him know that his attempts to scare you haven't worked. It would be good to have someone stand up to him and remind him that women are capable of seeing through lies like that and thinking for themselves.
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#14 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 05:43 PM
 
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yes but there are also many stories about women who had police show up at thier door with a warrent to take them to the hospital for a c/section. SHe was never allowed an attorney to fight on her behaff and when she turned around and sued for her rights being violated she lost. It can and does happen. This one happend in Florida.

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#15 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 05:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pampered_mom View Post
Bottom line...he's trying to scare you into making the decision he wants you to do and very likely is bluffing. I wouldn't under any circumstances choose to birth with him as my cp, but before leaving care I'd let him know that his attempts to scare you haven't worked. It would be good to have someone stand up to him and remind him that women are capable of seeing through lies like that and thinking for themselves.
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yes but there are also many stories about women who had police show up at thier door with a warrent to take them to the hospital for a c/section. SHe was never allowed an attorney to fight on her behaff and when she turned around and sued for her rights being violated she lost. It can and does happen. This one happend in Florida.
But the OP, as a woman who already has another OB who is supportive of VBAC, is in a perfect position to help other women avoid that by following pampered_mom's advice in telling off the evil OB. (Sorry if calling him evil is a UAV, I'm using that word because that's what I'd call him to his face.)
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#16 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 05:58 PM
 
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That sucks. I would try and find another local dr that would let you VBAC. That sounds so unfair. Just b/c you needed one section doesn't mean you will need another.
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#17 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 06:07 PM
 
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yes but there are also many stories about women who had police show up at thier door with a warrent to take them to the hospital for a c/section. SHe was never allowed an attorney to fight on her behaff and when she turned around and sued for her rights being violated she lost. It can and does happen. This one happend in Florida.

I have to say that I've never heard of this, and it seems pretty unlikely to me.

Is this a documented case that you are speaking about?
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#18 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 06:14 PM
 
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I have to say that I've never heard of this, and it seems pretty unlikely to me.

Is this a documented case that you are speaking about?
The story is quoted with references here:

http://rixarixa.blogspot.com/2007/06...ond-class.html
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#19 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 06:15 PM
 
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I agree with the PP's. Run as far away and as fast as you can. He is not supportive of your desire to VBAC, and has already threatened to do it by force if you will not comply. Regardless if the hospital would follow through, this is what he would do. Scary stuff, mama.

I am not sure how honest your doctor is being, and I would really look into the hospital policy. It is something that could happen. If they do not have the ability to support VBAC's per the ACOG policy, they could try to force a section. If they feel that the fetus is in danger, they could ask for a court order. How likely this is probably stems on a number of factors.. but either way. Do you research, and please run far far far away from that Ob!
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#20 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 06:20 PM
 
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The story is quoted with references here:

http://rixarixa.blogspot.com/2007/06...ond-class.html

Ah, okay. I thought perhaps it was based on a case, but the "many stories of police showing up to doors" kinda threw me.

Thank you very much for the link. How awful for that poor woman.
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#21 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 06:52 PM
 
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Wow, what an awful situation! I agree with pretty much everyone else - try everything possible to avoid this doctor and hospital BUT, just in case something happens and you end up there....

pampered mom offers some great links - print out the information, write up a formal letter addressed to the risk manager of the hospital, and cc it to that doctor and all the possible doctors in the practice that could care for you, and consider ccing it to Joint Commission - say you feel you have received a threat that if you don't agree to a c-section you will be reported to CPS and the hospital will get a court order, and you've done the research (included with letter) that you do not feel a repeat c-section is as safe as a VBAC, you plan to VBAC, and you want to make sure that the hospital has your file documented IN ADVANCE that you are refusing a c-section. List and highlight your rights (ICAN is a great resource).

His threat to take legal action against you if you don't succumb to his wishes really is a threat of assault, and ACOG's own policy is against it. Print out all the research to include with your letter.

Honestly all the bullying of women will not stop until women repeatedly stand up, file complaints with Joint Commission, with the hospital risk manager, with the medical licensing board, and demand their right to bodily autonomy.

Here are some additional links with information that you need to send to that doctor.
http://www.greenjournal.org/cgi/cont...tract/108/1/21
http://vbacfacts.com/vbac/#FFR


since he is still likely to be hostile of course, you should avoid him if at all possible.

Good luck.
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#22 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 07:14 PM
 
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Dump the stupid, CPS-happy doc! A day, a week, whatever, before you are due - bring the kids and camp out with mine - I live 3 minutes from Dr. T's hospital! Seriously. It's a small, (and very messy house and everyone will have to double/triple/quadruple up, but it's better than a forced section!
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#23 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Firstly, I just realised I titled this wrong, it should say "CPS over refusing RCS". Pregnancy induced acronym confusion, its a real problem.

Thanks ladies. I know I am very lucky to have Dr T, I guess I just need to get past the fear of delivering on the side of I95. Like someone else said, at this point the hostility and negativity is damage enough whatever the outcome. *Sigh*

Thanks for the offer Sweeetpea, thats a lovely sounding idea! I love messy houses! Its such a gorgeous area up there as well....hmmm.....can we come over right now? I will bring icecream! lol. Just kidding.

Mama to nine gorgeous babies, with finale #10 due April'14.
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#24 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 08:24 PM
 
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When I was pregnant with my second child I had a hospital admin come in and threatened to call CPS. They said that if I did not ride in an ambulance to another city to have an emergency section, they would be forced to report me as an unfit mother and remove my 2 year old.


I'd die at home before I went back to that hospital!
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#25 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 08:49 PM
 
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Tell the threatening OB you're moving. And if you are super concerned about making it to the other doctor, get a hotel room!
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#26 of 37 Old 02-27-2008, 11:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by momto3wantingmore View Post
yes but there are also many stories about women who had police show up at thier door with a warrent to take them to the hospital for a c/section. SHe was never allowed an attorney to fight on her behaff and when she turned around and sued for her rights being violated she lost. It can and does happen. This one happend in Florida.
Yes...and how many more times are we (society, women in general, pregnant women, women seeking to have the normal conclusion to a pregnancy, etc) going to let that be a reason to stay silent and let the reigning powers that be have their way?

I realize that not every medical professional should be considered evil, but quite frankly the system is broken and the only way it's going to change is if individual women just like you and me start making our voices heard. Letting them silence you with fear and intimidation tactics will not change things.
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#27 of 37 Old 02-28-2008, 12:23 PM
 
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Everyone has given you great advice. I just want to tell you how sorry I am that this is happening.

Please keep us updated!

~Heather, loving my DH and DS with my whole heart. Our newest addition DD July '10
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#28 of 37 Old 02-28-2008, 12:28 PM
 
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Everyone has given you great advice. I just want to tell you how sorry I am that this is happening.

Please keep us updated!
:

To my husband I am wife, to my kids I am mother, but for myself I am just me.
we're : with and : and
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#29 of 37 Old 02-28-2008, 02:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by momtoafireteam View Post
Firstly, I just realised I titled this wrong, it should say "CPS over refusing RCS". Pregnancy induced acronym confusion, its a real problem.
It would be lovely if it were the way around that you have it in the thread title, wouldn't it? Just watch all the OBs magically become able to read the evidence if they'd get reported to CPS if they didn't support a viable VBAC.

(BTW, advanced mode in editing lets you change thread titles, a lot of people don't know that, so I thought I'd mention it.)
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#30 of 37 Old 02-28-2008, 08:01 PM
 
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I find it shocking he would try and get a court order to force a c-section regardless of how the birth was going

I would RUN from that office and never see him again.

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