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Old 12-17-2003, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Here's my birthstory for those who don't know my situation and would like the nitty gritty (its really long): http://www.mattandlisahart.com/birthstorymdc.asp

For the short story, I was planning a homebirth but ended up induced because of a +3 protein in my urine at Kaiser (pre-eclampsia).

And I'm SO freaking mad because it wasn't neccesary to induce me! I kinda thought this beforehand, because all of my bloodwork when they induced me came back fine. But the big light bulb is watching my birth video and hearing the nurse say "she had +3 protein in her urine, but she was bleeding, so that affected it". I was fluctuating from +1 to+2 for OVER A MONTH before Orion was born. Kasier didn't care it was +2. My midwives did care, but at my appts they were +1 or like 1 and 1/2ish...

I spoke to my midwife before I let them induce me, thinking she would be on my side and wanting the closest to a natural birth as possible for me and she said that yes, I needed to be induced, and couldn't have my homebirth anymore. I should note that she was not at the birth. She KNEW I was bleeding (I was in very early labor for 2 days prior to induction). So therefore she **KNEW** the protein in my urine they measured wasn't accurate (or she d*mn well should have. I found out later on she works at a high risk hospital as well as is a midwife, she should know what's what). At the least she should have asked or recommended that take a clean sample so the blood wouldn't affect it! I felt like an inconvience to her. Wouldn't any midwife worth crap think "OMG this mama needs help to save her birth as much as possible! Is there ANYTHING I can say/do/suggest to help her??"

Also the day of the appts (a prenatal and a NST) I called my midwife to tell her I was in early labor (had been contracting every 5-20 minutes, short 15-30 second contractions for a day and a half), and asking her opinion on if I should go into the prenatal and NST. She said yes, because they could see if Orion was handling contractions ok. Come ON! If she was *worried* about that, she could have come on down and checked me herself! It was like she was *trying* to get rid of me (at least that's how it felt)! What other midwife, when they still think the mom is low risk (she still considered me low risk) would tell them to go in to "see how the baby is tolerating" *VERY* early labor? How untrusting of the natural progression of birth is that? How much of a "birth is risky and unsafe" message was she sending there?!

I know that perhaps I wouldn't have had a homebirth with +2 protein and elevated blood pressure (but my midwives were unconcerned because it went down laying on my left side), but I wouldn't have been induced! I wouldn't have been on pitocin and mag sulfate for 40 hours (16 during labor, 24 after)! Which I'm almost %100 sure kept my milk from coming in. I wouldn't have been monitored continually. I wouldn't have had a catheder. Or THREE internal monitors (they jabbed Orion's head twice to get the monitor on him)! I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have ended up with an epidural (the one contraction I sat up with after I asked for the epidural was manageable, I KNOW I could have dealt with more pain if I could have MOVED). I wouldn't have forgotten half of what happened after Orion was born. I wouldn't have been so freaking drugged up that I was a polite quiet mousey girl. I wouldn't have been stuck laying down and unable to see my son's face when they put him on top of me after he was born. I wouldn't have had my mother in law there (Dh freaked out when they were inducing me and got his mom to drive him to the hospital. She asked if it was ok to stay, and I figured 'what the hell, my birth is completley f***ed up anyways' and let her stay). I wouldn't have had to push him out laying flat on my back with a nurse yelling at me stop "pushing" (while I was puking). I wouldn't feel like my birth was done to me as opposed to being an event I experienced as a empowering moment in my life.

So I'm mad. REALLY mad at my midwife for not even asking if it was a catherized sample. Mad at the staff for not getting a clean sample and just inducing me. Mad at myself for not THINKING of that at the moment and asking for a clean sample. For not just trusting myself and not going in that day. For trusting my midwife to want to do the best for me to have a natural home birth. Mad that I was stuck in the hospital for a total of 3 days being disturbed constantly instead of at home in bed.

And I'm really sad. Sad that I wasn't the first person to touch my child as he was born. Sad that I couldn't push in a comfy postion. Sad that my precious memory of him being born was me laying flat on my back, puking my guts out with a nurse trying to HOLD his head IN (truly with all this mess that my birth was I TREASURE the memory of feeling him slide out of me. It was the most amazing feeling in the world. I'm glad the epi wasn't up so high I missed that). Sad that it took awhile for ds and I to *really* bond (and I think the hospital birth had a lot to do with that).

*Sigh* Just wanted to get that off my chest. Thanks for listening to me rant and rave.

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
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Old 12-17-2003, 12:34 PM
 
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I think we need more midwives out there so there's a little "free market competition" for them. I had a horrible experience, too, that maybe someday I'll get around to posting.

Really sorry to hear that's what happened.

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Old 12-17-2003, 02:40 PM
 
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Oh honey, I really feel your pain. I really understand your anger....I had a similar situation...not nearly as harsh but similar...in which my midwife ultimately went medical on me and I ended up with LOTS Of things I REALLY REALLY REALLY didn't want done. I know how frustrating that is. I know how dissapointing it is. Heck, for me it's nearly 5 years later and I'm STILL pissed when I think about it for too long!!!!!!!!

If I were you, I'd write my midwife and TELL HER how dissapointed you were. If not to effect change, to at least let your feelings known. It can be very cathartic.

For me, it helped to KNOW more.....and to know what things to look out for in my NEXT birth. Maybe another baby is years down the road for you (or maybe not at all)......but if it is, being armed with your experience will be a powerful tool for the next time around. I am now preg again and am finding that I feel that much more empowered because of the bad experience I had with my M/W.
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Old 12-17-2003, 02:45 PM
 
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I would be so angry too and it is perfectly understandable. You DID do the BEST thing at the time based on the information you had, sadly the info was incomplete.

wish i could make it better... just look at your son and hold him close, he loves you and knows you try to do the best by him!
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Old 12-17-2003, 02:51 PM
 
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*double post*

whoops!
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Old 12-17-2003, 04:29 PM
 
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This is exactly why I'm trying to leave my mw this late in the game. Dh and I are convinced she is going to go all medical and dump me into the OR for another c/b.

My mws won't even give me straight answers about anything!

My dh calls them "women on a power trip" and my chiro has it pretty close to right. He said that he thinks there are quite a few mw out there that are mw because they didn't want to go to "medical school" they just wanted to deliver babies. (His wife uc'ed her 2 kids). Now I don't know what training they go through (I'm sure quite a bit) but I think there are too many out there for the wrong reason.

Single Mom to 2 amazing little men. T(7) and B(5)
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Old 12-17-2003, 07:12 PM
 
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Lisa, you have every right to be very upset. Unfortunately I think many of us get lulled into a false sense of security when we have a midwife, thinking that they will of course be on our side which is why we have them instead of an ob right? Wrong!

I was sold out by my midwife too, I ended up with an unneccesary c-section which I am still pissed about. I agree, there are too many midwives out there who are apparantly in the wrong profession. This time we are going to UC so I don't have to worry about any of that crap again. Ugh, I am still ooozing with hostility about the whole thing.
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Old 12-17-2003, 07:40 PM
 
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Lisa, did they do a metabolic panel? A liver profile? Any bloodwork at all?

Based on what you have said, there isn't enough evidence to diagnose pre-eclampsia.

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. I would encourage you to talk to your midwife. Definitely. Let her know how angry you are.
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Old 12-18-2003, 12:48 AM
 
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dear lisa, I do also know how you are feeling. the worst part for me is looking back and realizing that i KNEW better but i let them intimidate me and bully me into all the things i didn't want. it takes a while to work thru these feelings and part of you will probably always be angry about it but some good can come of it to. one important thing that i have realized is that there is no emotional state like the end of pregnancy and we do and think some crazy things sometimes but we are all just trying to get our babies out healthy. I have processed alot of what happened 2 years ago and at least if have learned alot about myself and what i want next time. i also know that i will make sure that people that i trust will remind me of what i think is important. i have actually already started discussing this with my husband. Just take your time, work thru this, write a letter to your midwife explaining how you feel, and give youself patience and time to deal. this is a grieving process just like any other. and of course enjoy your son as much as possible 'cause he is healthy and you are the best mamma for him! please feel free to pm me if you want to talk in more detail about your situation or mine or just want someone to listen. take care!
peace

Peace and health, Jenny - Mama to my love 12/01, my lovely 7/04, and my beloved 10/06, and one angel. ****5****10****15***20****25****30****35***bellycast.gif40**
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Old 12-18-2003, 01:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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For me, it helped to KNOW more.....and to know what things to look out for in my NEXT birth. Maybe another baby is years down the road for you (or maybe not at all)......but if it is, being armed with your experience will be a powerful tool for the next time around. I am now preg again and am finding that I feel that much more empowered because of the bad experience I had with my M/W.
Yes we will be wanting more children at some point, and it does help to think that I can again plan a homebirth when we're ready. It'll be awhile but it does help.

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This is exactly why I'm trying to leave my mw this late in the game. Dh and I are convinced she is going to go all medical and dump me into the OR for another c/b.
Yes find someone you trust, someone you *feel* is going to do right by you. I had a 'eh' feeling about my midwives, not bad, but sorta... clinical... not this "oh I LOVE my midwives" feeling... but stayed with them because on paper they look fantastic. Running and working at a birth home, both CNM's, had been attending births for a very long time, ect. But the one midwife I saw almost exclusively was very "medwife".

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Unfortunately I think many of us get lulled into a false sense of security when we have a midwife, thinking that they will of course be on our side which is why we have them instead of an ob right? Wrong!
Yup *exactly* what I thought! I mean why wouldn't they be?? I did a LOT of research while pregnant to be informed, but honestly there is no way I could know every single possible thing that can go along with pregnancy and what it means, and I trusted that my midwives would be right there for me with the knowledge they had to at least help me make the right choice! Sure she may have thought that I wouldn't be eligable for a homebirth anymore with elevated proteins but she sure as hell could have helped me fight the induction with some information!

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Lisa, did they do a metabolic panel? A liver profile? Any bloodwork at all?
They did a full run of bloodwork once I was admitted. I don't know if that's a metabolic panel, but it did check whatever levels of whatever that would indicate if my liver or kidneys were being affected. The bloodwork came back perfectly fine. *After* the bloodwork came back fine I was telling my MIL I was being induced because they were afraid I was going to get pre-eclampsia. The doctor rudely interupted me saying "No, you *have* pre-eclampsia". How could it have been pre-eclampsia if my bloodwork was *fine*?! If my blood pressure levels were still within the high-but-ok range?? (I monitored my blood pressure through out the last trimester and it NEVER reached a point that the call center I called my info into was concerned about. I was seeing both the midwives AND Kaiser because I had gest. diabetes, diet controlled, and the blood pressure "issue").

And I Hmmmmm on contacting my midwives. I know she would contact me to speak about it, and really that makes me uncomfortable. It wouldn't be a "I'm sorry" conversation, it would be a "I did what was right" conversation, I know it would be. I just don't want to argue with her about the situation.

Thanks everyone for reading. And for the support. Hopefully everything I went through will help me be even more educated for my next birth.

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
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Old 12-18-2003, 01:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally posted by wolfmom
dear lisa, I do also know how you are feeling. the worst part for me is looking back and realizing that i KNEW better but i let them intimidate me and bully me into all the things i didn't want.
Yup, I *knew* in my heart that I didn't need to be induced. But I couldn't come up with a good logical argument to not do it (I honestly didn't even THINK about the bleeding affecting my protein levels. Now I'm about how DUH! that was). So I called my midwife for her opinion thinking she'd be trying to help me figure out the right course of action.

Why is it SO easy to be intimidated and bullied by doctors even when we know better? I guess our minds just get filled with thinking of our babies being at risk... I know that's what I was battling. An internal debate over "Birth is normal, I don't think being induced is right, it doesn't FEEL right" and "But my baby! What if I'm wrong?! What if something DOES happen? They ARE doctors and know if something is wrong..." and then after I spoke to my midwife added on top of that was "Well if my midwife agrees with them then it HAS to be true I need to be induced. She *knows* how much I wanted my homebirth"

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
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Old 12-18-2003, 02:11 AM
 
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Originally posted by its_our_family
My dh calls them "women on a power trip" and my chiro has it pretty close to right. He said that he thinks there are quite a few mw out there that are mw because they didn't want to go to "medical school" they just wanted to deliver babies. (His wife uc'ed her 2 kids). Now I don't know what training they go through (I'm sure quite a bit) but I think there are too many out there for the wrong reason.
You know, your chiro sounds like he's got his own power issues. I don't agree with that at all - although I will say that VA is a dangerous state for homebirth midwives - they actively prosecute midwives. I don't know how far out on a limb I'd go for many people when they could come to my house and arrest me.

I am not a midwife because I'm too dumb or too lazy to go to medical school. I am a midwife because I do not agree with the medical model approach to anything in relation to birth....and this drives what I do. I do NOT deliver babies, I assist women in birth and help usher in new lives. Mothers deliver babies.

Chiros have their own prejudices to deal with and a general stereotype of their own profession. To hear them generalizing, belittling and stomping on another alternative healthcare profession is very self-loathing.
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Old 12-18-2003, 02:40 AM
 
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Wow, your birth story really pissed me off. Elements of it reminded me of my labor, and I'm getting worked up again. When I read about the nurse trying to push the baby back while she called for the doctor, my first thought was 'Of course, you have to catch the baby if you want to get paid.' The insurance company pays the delivering doctor. If you deliver before he comes, he doesn't get paid. And then, it wouldn't sound good that a nurse delivered your baby when you were supposed to have a doctor (because, don't you know, birth is DANGEROUS). What kind of PR would that make? Something else I don't get is this: If the doctor thought you were in such danger that you had to be induced immediately, and they were thinking about doing a c/s, why did they leave you alone with your dh, doula, and friend while you were fully dilated? Your story sounds like mine, except apparently HB isn't allowed here anymore, so I knew from the beginning that I wouldn't get to. I'm thinking about having an 'OOPS!, wow my labor went so fast there wasn't time to go to the hospital' UC the next time. Really.
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Old 12-18-2003, 02:44 AM
 
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I totally feel your pain! I also really hate Kaiser (Hayward) and just because I chose not to abide by their rules to "come on in and be induced" (I was about 17 days overdue) I wasn't 'Allowed' a midwife and ended up with morphine, and an epidural (wanted natural, I DID have a Doula) and got the #1 thing I didn't want the most.... A episiotomy! I truly personally hate the Dr. his name is Dr. Newhouse. He yanked out my placenta, didn't say a word and almost dropped my daughter (have it on video tape). That's a long story short! It has affected me a lot! So I definitely feel your pain and the need to have so many answers to questions!
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Old 12-18-2003, 03:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally posted by gr160
Something else I don't get is this: If the doctor thought you were in such danger that you had to be induced immediately, and they were thinking about doing a c/s, why did they leave you alone with your dh, doula, and friend while you were fully dilated?
I *know* totally stupid if they thought I was in danger! However its not like they needed to be in my room to get every freaking stat on me at any moment w/ all the monitors : I wish the nurse hadn't come in at all. That dh would have caught Orion. That would have been really neat.

I wish you all the luck in a "oops" UC! If I couldn't have a legal homebirth next time I'd be seriously thinking of that idea as well!

Quote:
I also really hate Kaiser (Hayward) and just because I chose not to abide by their rules to "come on in and be induced" (I was about 17 days overdue) I wasn't 'Allowed' a midwife and ended up with morphine, and an epidural (wanted natural, I DID have a Doula) and got the #1 thing I didn't want the most.... A episiotomy! I truly personally hate the Dr. his name is Dr. Newhouse. He yanked out my placenta, didn't say a word and almost dropped my daughter (have it on video tape).
Yes Kaiser blows! I'm SO thankful for how ds was actually born (no doctor) because I'm sure they would have had no issues with cutting me (and I didn't even tear except for a very small internal one) and disregarding my birth plan like they did for everything else! My doc yanked the placenta out as well and the nurse made rude "jokes" about what a baby I was when I was in pain, surely I should be able to tolerate it considering my piercings and tattoos. Yeah like that pain is anything like childbirth! I don't even know the dr's name! It was a woman, that's all I know...

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
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Old 12-18-2003, 04:22 AM
 
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Oh Lisa I am so sorry. I don't think anyone should have to deal with such a cr@p birth experience. I know what you mean about not wanting to talk to your mw about it. I had the same thing with my ectopic pregnancy. There was no point talking to the offending persons about it as all it did was piss me off all over again & make me even more upset & angry. In the end, I went & had a whole heap of reikki. Made the world of difference & enabled me to let go of the anger as it was a situation that had happened & that I could not change as it was in the past.

I also wantd to tell you there is hope for your next birth. I had a pissy mw who turned into an unsupportive anti-homebirth medwife on me when I was about 7 months gone with dd#2. She even told me nasty horror stories about people losing home brith babies & mentioned how it was very selfish to want a spiritual experince at the expense of your baby's safety. Was continually bitching about her other clients I was too freaked at being pg after 2 nasty losses to have the emotional energy to deal with "sacking" her. Rather fortunately she also had a habit of taking on way too many clients & I was #3 to go into labour when I did. So she fobbed me off. dd#2 ended up being an accidental unassisted home birth with her Dad delivering her. So it all turned out great in the end.

Live & learn. For dd#3 I got a proper homebirth mw & checked with other women locally who had had her deliver their babes. She was a tad laid back & only tested me for the bare minimum, which could also have been skillful assesing of the necessary stuff as I had no real probs. Everything else she gave me a choice on. She turned up in time to catch the baby. & it was a lovely peaceful mellow experience. She also made nada, zilch, no inappropriate comments about me, my pregnancy or any of her other clients either - yay!

Edited to add: what a nasty, unproffesional nurse to make jokes about you having tattoos & piericngs. Jyst the thought of placenta yanking makes me cringe & i have lots of tattoos & piercings.
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Old 12-18-2003, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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NAK

Thank you for understanding about not wanting to talk to the midwives about it, I do feel a bit wussy for not wanting to, but I also know that its not going to make me feel better about my experience (personally, I know it has helped others) so I'm passing on it.

Just being able to talk is really helpful, so I appreciate being listened to here

Quote:
I had a pissy mw who turned into an unsupportive anti-homebirth medwife on me when I was about 7 months gone with dd#2. She even told me nasty horror stories about people losing home brith babies & mentioned how it was very selfish to want a spiritual experince at the expense of your baby's safety. Was continually bitching about her other clients
OMG! That's *horrible*! I'm sorry you had that experience too! Its good she didn't end up at your birth!

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
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Old 12-18-2003, 02:33 PM
 
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I think it's great that you come here to vent. I think eventually you will have the strength to confront your midwives, but the grieving process for the birth you lost is lengthy. Anger is just one step and you're going to get through it. It might have happened sooner had you not had the breastfeeding issues you had.

When you're in the heat of the moment and they convince you there could be a problem with your baby- it's very easy to let them take charge, especially when the person/people you want to support you go 'to the other side'.

I'm very worried about things like this happening to me when I have this new baby. I know that ultimately every decision is up to me, but if they're telling me that there are problems and 'we must to this, or else' I don't know how I will handle it- especially b/c my first 2 were 5 weeks early and at that age, things can really go either way in terms of health, lung development, etc.

Michelle -mom to Katlyn 4/00 , Jake 3/02, and Seth 5/04
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Old 12-21-2003, 08:19 AM
 
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Darn it, my post got erased, this weird pop up stole it, something about getting your baby to sleep thru the night, too. Weird. Anyway, I was saying...

-- You had talked to Jennifer, she is the biggest MEDwife in the practice, she works more at Alta Bates than in HB practice, AB has like 40% c/s rate or some godawful thing like that. It was her terrorizing that had SIL subjecting herself to abusive induction methods.

-- you are one of two ppl I referred to that practice. both of you ended up with terribly interventionist births. I ahve already begun my battle with that group over this issue.

-- Kaiser is guilty of malpractice. You really should look into a lawsuit. It is worth it. I will help you. I mean it, I wanna get those sOBs.

I feel partly responsible, having sent you to this group, now seeing that they aren't so great. I was lucky, Jennifer was in Hawaii running a marathon during my birth, so she wasn't there to screw with it, but even Beah broke my waters without asking. What was done here makes me angry too, and I am fighting with you. It doesn't help I am going to work with these women, but I will not compromise my values for a job, I will find a replacement ASAP if they aren't willing to listen to me talk honestly with them about how they not only abandoned you, but didn't help you advocate for yourself, and didn't educate you. They basically dropped you off at Kaiser and said, gee, it was nice doing 5% of your prenatals and using Kaiser for the rest. We got half our fee, we have enough clients we can afford to lose one. Have a nice birth. Gee, did they forget to tell you what happens to pre-e moms with mag and pit-- HELLO?? NO MILKIES!!! WTF was that? You should ahve seen me ranting when I read your birth story. Robbie thought I was going to burst a blood vessel. You were vulnerable and taken advantage of. Let's get together and discuss not only how we can make sure your next birth is beautiful, but let's discuss how we can take action to make sure this doesn't happen to any more women. Ya with me?

Now I'm too fired up to go to bed









Lauren
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Old 12-21-2003, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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-- Kaiser is guilty of malpractice. You really should look into a lawsuit. It is worth it. I will help you. I mean it, I wanna get those sOBs.
Yes lets talk about it! I don't know if it would really be seen as malpractice, since the standard of care for birthing moms in hospitals is "give them as many interventions as possible just in case", but I'm more than willing to look into things if you want to help!

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I feel partly responsible, having sent you to this group, now seeing that they aren't so great.
You told me about them, but it was my own choice, so please don't feel bad. I *knew* in my heart they were too MEDwifey, but still choose them. Well actually choose them because they seemed like a good mix of natural birth advocates who would also know what to do if things didn't go right. I did have a gut feeling that we weren't a good match, but let myself ignore that feeling because they had SO much experience.

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Let's get together and discuss not only how we can make sure your next birth is beautiful, but let's discuss how we can take action to make sure this doesn't happen to any more women. Ya with me?
Yes yes! Hopefully you'll be there for the next birth oh midwife in training! Maybe we can get together to talk and get my dipes stripped too??

I remember what you were saying about how they should have came and attended my birth anyways in the hospital, and at the time you said that I was still going through that inital "oh everything was fine" thing so many moms go through in the beginning... but now I'm like hell yeah they shoulda showed up! Being a midwife is about *caring* about birthing moms. About making a connection with the moms you're working with, and I couldn't imagine being a midwife who's seen a mom through her whole pregnancy and then just disconnecting with her before she births like you don't give a rat's a$$ about what happens to her! If I was a midwife I'd be with that mom in labor, advocating for her so her birth was as good as it could be even in a crappy hospital.

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It doesn't help I am going to work with these women, but I will not compromise my values for a job, I will find a replacement ASAP if they aren't willing to listen to me talk honestly with them about how they not only abandoned you, but didn't help you advocate for yourself, and didn't educate you.
I really appreciate that. I really DO want them to know how I feel, but I don't want to have to argue with them by myself about it since this is such an emotional issue for me. I'm not sure if I'm up to it, but lets talk about us both speaking to them together. Some help and support from you might be enough to give me some courage (and you can keep me from turning into 'miss nice and polite and compliant' too ).

Thank you for caring so much Lauren. I'm very blessed to have you for a friend.

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
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Old 12-22-2003, 05:13 AM
 
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I'm so sorry that your birth experience wasn't what you'd hoped for, I understand that first-hand, but I try to focus on enjoying the outcome (I *did* end up with a 99% great hospital birth).

However, Kaiser is THE EVIL EMPIRE. I realize not everyone has a choice in their health care, but do whatever you can to get away from them fast. I had them for 21 years, my family for decades beyond that. Their incompetence reaches the highest levels and I can't even begin to tell you how much pain they've caused our family. I am lucky, I got out okay, not everyone does.

Take Care...


edited to clarify that my family had Kaiser for decades before me, and still does.
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Old 12-22-2003, 05:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes Kaiser is EVIL! I've had them since I was born. But that's what insurance Dh can get. We've looked into buying me insurance with our own $ and its just far more than we can afford. So I learn as much as I can about things, question them, never take a script without checking it out online after I get it from them, ect, ect. Dh will most likely be able to get a much better job after he graduates in 2005, so hopefully we will not be stuck with Kaiser again then.

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
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Old 12-22-2003, 05:57 AM
 
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Lisa, I typed out a long, lovely post that was eaten by a board glitch twice! So, I will call you tomorrow to tell you how much I love you.
L

and schedule a stripping dipes/birth activism discussion date.
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Old 12-22-2003, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Awwwww! Sounds great!

:bad board! Stop eatting Lauren's posts!: Oh wait maybe I should employ gentle discipline :Board, Lauren is sad when you eat her posts. You wouldn't like that if you were her would you?: Ok yeah I'm tired and silly...

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
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