How pushy were your doctors? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 56 Old 05-22-2009, 12:44 PM
 
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Well, I had midwives, and they were wonderful. :

However, I went overdue, and their backup doctors must have been hiding horns and forked tails. : It was just one dead-baby threat after another. When I refused induction with one, the dr. told me that I'd *never* get the "huge" baby out, and he'd see me in the OR. I did get that baby out, and I never saw him again.
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#32 of 56 Old 05-22-2009, 12:49 PM
 
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Ricki Lake and Abby Epstein (of 'The Business of Being Born') have a wonderful new book out called "Your Best Birth". I know they are vocal advocates of Homebirth, but this book is not what I expected. It's for all women in all situations to help them take control of their birth whether it be a HB or hospital birth. It actually talks very little about HB from what I've read already. It gives a lot of advice and suggestions on how to handle OBs, nursing staff, hospital policies, resisting induction too early, avoiding unwanted c-sections, etc. It even covers women who want to explore the option of VBAC.

I highly recommend it for all women who are PG or planning to conceive. Not everyone is a candidate or comfortable with the idea of a HB, and this is a nice tool for women to gain confidence and education on having the birth that they want in spite of pressure from doctors and the medical community.

The book was just released about two weeks ago and is available on Amazon. I was at Borders the other day and found plenty of copies in the PG section.

Andi, 32 - SAHM to Aaron Patriot born at home on 8/7/09 and devoted wife to Paul. : EC, Non-Circ ::
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#33 of 56 Old 05-22-2009, 12:51 PM
 
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Well, I had midwives, and they were wonderful. :

However, I went overdue, and their backup doctors must have been hiding horns and forked tails. : It was just one dead-baby threat after another. When I refused induction with one, the dr. told me that I'd *never* get the "huge" baby out, and he'd see me in the OR. I did get that baby out, and I never saw him again.
Good for you! I think a lot of women just need confidence and trust in their bodies and their babies to do what they need to do. It's frustrating dealing with all the pressure that can come with the medical community, especially for first timers. Congratulations : )

Andi, 32 - SAHM to Aaron Patriot born at home on 8/7/09 and devoted wife to Paul. : EC, Non-Circ ::
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#34 of 56 Old 05-22-2009, 12:51 PM
 
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a lot of useful information here,
i just would like to encourage you to try and find a new doc. have you thought about family practice docs? they are usually more natural delivery minded, at least where i live. on the other hand, if it is like here, it is very unlikely that your doc will even be there - here its whoever is on call unless its during the working hours or your doc is the one thats on call.
so even though my doc was nice and considerate, i didnt really hope he'd be there and didnt obscess about it.
i would advise hiring a doula as well, mine was awesome and very helpful, in the end it was due to her and the natural delivery oriented nurse we requested who ensured i had the beautiful intimate delivery that i had.
also, try to focus om positive things... i too thought that as soon as i go into the hospital they will start poking and proding me, which was not good for my pregnant morale. so try to send out positive thoughts. i great read is this - http://www.amazon.com/Adventures-Nat...3007465&sr=1-4 helps to concentrate on good things and know you are not alone!
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#35 of 56 Old 05-22-2009, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ricki Lake and Abby Epstein (of 'The Business of Being Born') have a wonderful new book out called "Your Best Birth". I know they are vocal advocates of Homebirth, but this book is not what I expected. It's for all women in all situations to help them take control of their birth whether it be a HB or hospital birth. It actually talks very little about HB from what I've read already. It gives a lot of advice and suggestions on how to handle OBs, nursing staff, hospital policies, resisting induction too early, avoiding unwanted c-sections, etc. It even covers women who want to explore the option of VBAC.

I highly recommend it for all women who are PG or planning to conceive. Not everyone is a candidate or comfortable with the idea of a HB, and this is a nice tool for women to gain confidence and education on having the birth that they want in spite of pressure from doctors and the medical community.

The book was just released about two weeks ago and is available on Amazon. I was at Borders the other day and found plenty of copies in the PG section.
I think I checked out a book by the co-author from the library along the same lines as this. It's pretty good so far; I'll have to check out this one and the video they did. Thanks.

Still-learning wife to long-suffering and wonderful DH and manoula to DS #1 (8/09), an angel baby (7/10), and DD #1 due May 29!
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#36 of 56 Old 05-22-2009, 02:33 PM
 
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I do NOT want drugs, pitocin, or a C/S foisted on me unless absolutely necessary...but I keep hearing horror stories about how on the day of delivery, some women's docs just didn't listen to them or bullied them into accepting whatever it was they wanted. I have a tendency to get angry easily, and I'm shy and no good at standing up for myself to doctors...how much did your doctors respect your wishes and besides a birth plan what did you do to make sure things went smoothly?
What I did to make sure things went smootly:

*had a midwife at our HMO instead of a doctor
*took Bradley childbirth classes NOT the hospital classes!!!!
*stayed home til I was pretty sure birth was very soon - in my case it was 14 hours (dd was our first)
*had dp on the same page
*had a good birth plan
*had a good attitude
*very nicely but firmly offered to sign AMA (against medical advice) forms if they needed when I refused hospital policy things

If you want something different than the standard policy at the hospital, a 30+% chance of a c section, etc - then you have to DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT. Find out if the HMO has midwives (ours did). Find out if you can go out of network. A friend's insurance told her no on the midwives, but covered it after the midwife's office admin called. My insurance saved a BUNDLE because we've had three babies with midwives!
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#37 of 56 Old 05-22-2009, 02:50 PM
 
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Hospitals can be great places to have babies if you go in knowing what to expect and have had a good conversation w/ your HCP ahead of time. Bring your birth plan with you - tape it on the door, give a copy to whomever is "on" when you get there and have your HCP enter it into your chart either via notes from your conversation and/or give them a copy.

The best thing that we did during my birth was to assigning someone the job of REMINDING HOSPITAL STAFF ABOUT WHATEVER ASPECTS OF YOUR BIRTH PLAN ARE RELEVAN AT THAT POINT IN TIME. For example, nobody cares that you don't want the cord clamped right away while you're in labor. Remind them as the baby is coming out. This strategy really helped me have a great birth. Ands I never felt pushed or like I had to fight at all - most doctors are perfectly happy to let you do things naturally but since it's not standard protocol you have to remind them that is what you want.

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#38 of 56 Old 05-22-2009, 02:59 PM
 
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I went the HB route since I am terrified of the reactions I'll have to any drugs. I tend to get every side effect of medications I take. Everyone I know in the hospitals here had the typical there's something wrong you have to come in for an induction which leads to a c/s.

Do you have any hospitals that your insurance covers that have midwives? In my state they have to insurance midwives. I may help you get a NCB in the hospital.
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#39 of 56 Old 05-22-2009, 03:09 PM
 
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My OB was SUPER pushy. She finally granted me "one hour" before she would force pitocin on me. It was awful.

If I had to do a hospital again (which I don't - I had an HBAC) - I would just keep repeating myself - no pitocin, no epi, etc. I think I would be stronger and more able to stand up for myself. I am a strong educated woman, and I knew I didn't want it, so I am kind of mad that I caved in. I would also not try to justify my choice (because the doc will win) - just keep saying NO.

I would also tell my hubby to keep saying No Drugs too, and no matter what, not to try to change my mind.
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#40 of 56 Old 05-23-2009, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok, so the book I actually checked out is called "THE Best Birth", not YOUR Best Birth, and it's by a Sarah McMoyler who touts her own, eponymous method of dealing with pain during labor. She basically advocates moving around during labor, birth balls, squatting, holding onto your husband, and making moaning sounds. That's all well and good, but she's a former L/D nurse and says things like "no OB would ever dream of inducing a woman who wasn't in critical need of it" etc. She also says doulas should know their place and that you aren't going to win any awards for a natural childbirth.

Can I just say that I HATE it when people say this? You don't win any medals for paying taxes and not killing people, either.

Still-learning wife to long-suffering and wonderful DH and manoula to DS #1 (8/09), an angel baby (7/10), and DD #1 due May 29!
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#41 of 56 Old 05-23-2009, 10:34 PM
 
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Zuzunel - wow, ditch that book. There's plenty of recorded instances of induction for physician convenience, or maternal request. Everything from "my OB was leaving on vacation..." to "I just couldn't stand to be pregnant anymore" to "my husband was about to be deployed."
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#42 of 56 Old 05-24-2009, 10:06 AM
 
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Ok, so the book I actually checked out is called "THE Best Birth", not YOUR Best Birth, and it's by a Sarah McMoyler who touts her own, eponymous method of dealing with pain during labor. She basically advocates moving around during labor, birth balls, squatting, holding onto your husband, and making moaning sounds. That's all well and good, but she's a former L/D nurse and says things like "no OB would ever dream of inducing a woman who wasn't in critical need of it" etc. She also says doulas should know their place and that you aren't going to win any awards for a natural childbirth.

Can I just say that I HATE it when people say this? You don't win any medals for paying taxes and not killing people, either.
Yeah, totally different approach than the Lake/Epstein book. I am so happy they approached the book the way they did. I figured it would be more about HB since that's what the BOBB was focused on. I am planning a HB so that would've been great for me, but I think the women facing hospital births for various reasons need a boost in getting closer to the type of birth they want, so I'm really glad they focused more on how to make this happen for ALL women, not just homebirthers.

Andi, 32 - SAHM to Aaron Patriot born at home on 8/7/09 and devoted wife to Paul. : EC, Non-Circ ::
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#43 of 56 Old 06-13-2009, 07:08 AM
 
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Anyway, I guess what you're all saying is, get a spine.
Seems that way, doesnt it? We havent been through it yet, but I have already had to talk our OB down after he asked us if we had any questions.

He didnt like my questions.

I didnt care.

My wife appreciates that I have her back. It's really a no brainer really, he will have my entire families lives in his hands, I'd like him to know who he is working for.

Check out my Homepage, I have a daddy blog.
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#44 of 56 Old 06-15-2009, 04:17 PM
 
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A lot of HMOs have a CNM option? Does yours? You'll find that they are generally more willing to stand by and allow the natural process to take place.

A woman in labor shouldn't need to advocate forcefully for herself. I couldn't have and honestly, my DH is wonderful but not that guy. He respects the white coat too much and he has a terrible time watching me in labor. Can you have a doula or a friend experienced with natural birth help out.

And sometimes interventions *are* necessary for a safe birth. We all know that. Which is why it is helpful to have an experienced advocate with you if you don't like or trust your OB. Labor doesn't always go according to plan.
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#45 of 56 Old 06-16-2009, 06:58 PM
 
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I went into the hospital each time and told the nurses and doctors to leave the room, I would let them know when to catch.

I refused monitoring, all internal exams, and IVs. I ate and drank. I did what I wanted. I didn't have an issue once.

I was very kind and firm in my wishes. They could not do anything against my will. There's nothing they can do to you that you didn't LET them do.

It was glorious!

SANDRA, 41 year old VERY laid-back mama to VERY free range kids Brett (16), Justus (11), Autumn (4), and Ayla (1)... four perfect NCB's! :::
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#46 of 56 Old 06-16-2009, 08:02 PM
 
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I was very kind and firm in my wishes. They could not do anything against my will. There's nothing they can do to you that you didn't LET them do.
There are women here who had doctors cut episiotomies without even telling them...and others who saw the scissors and said "no", and got cut, anyway. I had a c-section performed, while I went into transition, saying "no - I don't want a c-section".

They absolutely can do things to you, even if you don't "let" them.

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#47 of 56 Old 06-16-2009, 08:05 PM
 
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Then the best place to be, if you can't get assurance from your doctor that they will follow your every wish, is at home.

I made sure my doctor knew the hospital well, and she ensured that the team on staff each time I was there followed my wishes. If I didn't have that comfort level, I'd find a new doctor/hospital or stay at home.

SANDRA, 41 year old VERY laid-back mama to VERY free range kids Brett (16), Justus (11), Autumn (4), and Ayla (1)... four perfect NCB's! :::
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#48 of 56 Old 06-16-2009, 10:05 PM
 
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Know your 'enemy'...educate yourself as much as possible. Two things I thought I did but didn't do.

I did not research any aspect at ALL of c-section, and it turns out my hospital has a 44% c/s rate, and guess what side I ended up on. I went 8 days overdue and the dr. threatened me with stillborn baby, low amniotic fluid and big baby/small pelvis, so bullied pretty much into a c/s for the following morning.

Had I researched it, I'd know that the small pelvis is an often-diagnosed problem that can rarely be substantiated. Same with overdue, it's just an estimate, same with amniotic fluid levels by ultrasound...the techs best guess, really.

Good luck! Read everything you can get your hands on. At least going in armed with all the knowlege you can, you are far better off.

Mama of 2 sweet boys, Miles (Jan 3/07) and Avery (Nov 28/09) My fast and furious HBAC
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#49 of 56 Old 06-16-2009, 10:15 PM
 
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Then the best place to be, if you can't get assurance from your doctor that they will follow your every wish, is at home.

I made sure my doctor knew the hospital well, and she ensured that the team on staff each time I was there followed my wishes. If I didn't have that comfort level, I'd find a new doctor/hospital or stay at home.
I'm really glad it all worked out for you, but the reality is that women have been abused by doctors, even though they were "assured" that said doctor wouldn't behave that way. Doctors can't "ensure" that staff are doing what the patient wants, unless the doctor is actually there the whole time, and that's often not the case.

I had total comfort with my doctor the first time. Unfortunately, someone I'd never met decided to cut me before my doctor even go there.

I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but your posts here are coming across in a very "if anything bad happened to you, it's your own fault" way, and for those of us struggling with birth trauma, that's kind of hard to take. You had a doctor who actually was what he/she appeared to be - that's great. Many women don't have that happen...and when you're already in labour is a bad time to find out you're not dealing with the person you thought you were, yk?

Oh - and I stayed home with my last one...for a long time. I was totally comfortable with it, and it was also glorious...at first. Unfortunately, things didn't end up so well, and I had a c-section, and my baby died.

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
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#50 of 56 Old 06-17-2009, 10:29 AM
 
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Do you want me to say there's nothing you can do, that docs will do what they want, regardless of your wishes? That wasn't my experience, and I answered the OP's post as she asked.

I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. I'm sorry others didn't have it work out for them.

It worked for me. And dozens of other women I know. Because they did what I said - made sure their doc was on board and made their wishes known.

I answered the OP. I'm sorry if you disagree. It is what it is. I'm not going to sit here and say you can't have a great hospital birth because all docs are insensitive and mutilate you and whatever. Didn't happen that way for me.

I'll back out now, clearly a positive experience is not what's being looked for here.

SANDRA, 41 year old VERY laid-back mama to VERY free range kids Brett (16), Justus (11), Autumn (4), and Ayla (1)... four perfect NCB's! :::
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#51 of 56 Old 06-17-2009, 10:47 AM
 
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You need to understand that you are legally able to refuse any intervention - it is called "informed consent".
Know your hospital..know the nurses and the doctors and the CNMs. It might be the only way to protect yourself and the babe from harm.

In some hospitals, the second you walk through the door, you lose all of your rights.

In some hospitals if you continue to refuse to consent...they can and will just get a court order to do whatever it is they wish to do...

The other thing they do is make threats.."we'll call CPS if you don't consent to XY or Z because you are putting you child at risk. If you want to have access to the baby in the next few weeks, you'll let us do this or CPS will take the baby"

It can happen to you..I never thought it could happen in a free country. But it happened to me and I knew my rights. I stood up for my rights, had a HB transfer, a doula and 2 midwives...and it still happened.

You have to GRILL your OB. It's your right to birth how you want...you need to know without a shadow of a doubt that your OB will allow it.

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#52 of 56 Old 06-17-2009, 11:19 AM
 
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Do you want me to say there's nothing you can do, that docs will do what they want, regardless of your wishes?
I know that question wasn't directed at me - but I just want to say I see all sides of the discussion here.

You CAN get "assurance" from your HCP that they will honor your wishes... but then things change when labor actually starts. So Mamas need to do a little more thorough investigation.

Personally, I don't think docs LIE when they say they are friendly to NCB & then behave otherwise. I think they really don't realize how they interfere & they are too scared to be hands-off. As Dr. Marsden Wagner writes, "Fish can't see the water they swim in." They ARE trying to help - they are just going back to old habits - they are practicing they way they know how to practice, and that is also they way they think is best for the baby.

That is why I think it's important to ask very open-ended questions and find out HOW your HCP normally practices as opposed to asking IF your HCP is willing to do what you want. Cuz the latter is where they may deviate from what they've told you once you're in labor (again, because they are doing with they think is best.)

Additionally, most MDC mamas recommend a doula, laboring at home as long as possible, other steps like requesting a nurse friendly to NCB, etc.

So... in other words... it takes some work to get a good hospital-birth experience and it is about MORE than just getting "assurance" from your doc. Even THEN, it can still go wrong. Of course, on the flip side, it COULD go fabulously even WITHOUT a doula & all that other stuff - but most of us don't want to gamble that we will luck-out.
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#53 of 56 Old 06-17-2009, 12:09 PM
 
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After my first birth with a large OB practice at a hospital that wasn't so natural birth friendly, I did some research to find out which doctors in my area were ok with natural birth. It seems the large majority of doctors are annoyed by natural birth. So I emailed several doulas in my area to find out which doctors they recommended. Several of them came back with the name of the same doctor. I interviewed him and used him for 2 years as my GYN before becoming pregnant. He has been fantastic. Even though the birth of my DD ended up becoming a medically necessary induction for pre-e (instead of the HB with MW I had planned), I got pretty much what I could have hoped for in that situation. I got natural birth friendly nurses that did not offer an epi once and kept telling me how great I was doing managing the pain. OB was ok with delayed clamping/cutting of the cord, no episiotomy, not breaking my water until I was ready because I wasn't progressing, etc. He talked to me on the phone at length the night before my induction over concerns I had with which cervical ripening method we should use. At my 6 week check-up, he said he was honored to be my doctor and to be present at the birth of my DD. He always takes his time to answer my questions. His practice is smallish but seems to be growing I noticed at my last appt. He delivers over 90% of his patients so my chances of having him attend the birth of my next baby are really good. Having the right OB can make all the difference in the world. Having a natural birth friendly hospital can too. However, if you are stuck in a situation where you don't have either and there's no chance you can change OBs/hospitals, then it will be critical to have a doula or a knowledgeable friend to advocate for you. I found my DH to be way too excited and emotional to be a good advocate for me so you may not be able to depend on your DH during the big moment. It would be best to find someone that doesn't have an emotional attachment to you like the massage therapist or a doula. Another suggestion is to make sure the person you pick to be your advocate is dependable. I picked someone that was still in training to save money and she didn't end up staying to see me through the birth because something came up. I don't think a professional doula would do that to a mama.
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#54 of 56 Old 06-17-2009, 02:25 PM
 
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Do you want me to say there's nothing you can do, that docs will do what they want, regardless of your wishes? That wasn't my experience, and I answered the OP's post as she asked.
No - that's not what I want. I'd like an acknowledgement that blaming people for having been abused by their doctors is out of line.

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It worked for me. And dozens of other women I know. Because they did what I said - made sure their doc was on board and made their wishes known.
That's great. But, that doesn't always work. It just doesn't.

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I answered the OP. I'm sorry if you disagree. It is what it is. I'm not going to sit here and say you can't have a great hospital birth because all docs are insensitive and mutilate you and whatever. Didn't happen that way for me.
Sorry. Where did I say that you can't have a great hospital birth? I didn't say it and I didn't mean it. I've talked to plenty of women who have had great hospital births. My objection, as I stated pretty clearly, is to the "you just have to do this, and everything will be glorious" tone of your posts. Once again, there's a strong tone of "if anything goes wrong, it's your own fault" there. I'm not sure from your posts, but it sounds as though your labours proceeded fairly well. If that's the case (and I'm not saying it was - just that's the impression I got), you really don't have any conception of what it can be like when things aren't proceeding to the staff's satisfaction.

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I'll back out now, clearly a positive experience is not what's being looked for here.
What's being looked for here is honest answers to how pushy doctors were. That's not the same thing as "you only get stuck with a pushy doctor if you're too stupid/weak/ignorant to ensure that you don't get one". It's also not the same thing as basically saying it doesn't matter, because, no matter how pushy they are, they can't do anything you don't let them do. I'm glad you had a positive experience, but that doesn't mean anyone can guarantee that any particular woman will have the same.

Getting a supportive doctor is great...but that's not the same thing as saying they "can't" do anything if you don't let them. Doctors do things to labouring women, over those women's objections, every single day. Your posts here are pure victim-blaming. I can't believe you took from my posts that positive experiences aren't "being looked for" or that nobody can have a great hospital birth. I didn't say either, nor is that what I meant.

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

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#55 of 56 Old 06-17-2009, 04:09 PM
 
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you aren't going to win any awards for a natural childbirth.
Sure you are. Its called the "Didn't get cut open with a knife" award.

My #1 reason for wanting natural childbirth was that it was the best way to avoid interventions that might lead to surgery.
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#56 of 56 Old 06-17-2009, 04:51 PM
 
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My OB or nurse wasn't pushy at all. He actually perfers natural births since they're the easiest for him. And he hates c-sections and episiotomies and all that. They were all very compassionate. The next birth will be at home, so it'll be a little different, but I'm looking forward to it. I have nothing bad to say about my first birth or my OB. He was truly amazing.
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