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#1 of 17 Old 01-28-2004, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a very close friend who is 34 or so weeks along, I'm 33 weeks. It's very trying to have to listen to the way she is handling her pregnancy and birth plans. (Its also none of my bussiness so that's why I'm here). I am planning a homebirth for my first child and I have been so enthralled and excited about the whole pregnancy experience and the upcoming labor and birth. My friend on the other hand has complained the whole time (this is her first, was an accident with her boyfriend but she's 37 and had no plans for kids so she figures it was a blessing in disguise...which I agree). She is VERY medically oriented in every aspect of her life. One who loves to be doctored and on medication and seems to adore going under the knife. Y'all know anyone like that? I find it weird myself. Well, I'm sure yall know where I'm going with this...
She is fearful of having a large baby since her boyfriend is skinny 6 foot 10 and was 10 pounds at birth. She expressed to her OB that she is worried about this and of course the OB sayed she could induce her. My friend was really fishing for a csection but she is looking at being induced 2-3 weeks early. I asked her why so early and she said "to save on weight". Ugh. I don't get it! Why would you do that??? A couple of extra pounds on a baby just makes it that more resilient in my mind...maybe I'm wrong. Who wants to have a skinny baby if it can be helped? Her OB will be giving her a sonogram to determine weight (hmmm...) and they'd decide from there. All I could tell her was that to be aware that ultrasounds don't always determine weight accurately and I would hate for her to come out with a 5 pound baby. She said "oh no it would have to be at least 7 pounds". Uh, but that's why I said that ultrasounds are not always accurate and often off by a pound from what I hear. Anyway, she has not so much as picked up a book (except for What to Expect When You're Expecting : ) because she just wants to do it by instinct and "doesn't want to get freaked out". Instinct?? Instict in labor yes. Instict and induction don't belong in the same sentence to me. This girl has no idea about the concept of knowing your options. If you want a managed birth I'm all for that as long as you know what your are getting into and you're fully informed. If you want an epidural for example, great. You just need to know the pros and cons...that goes for everything that could happen in labor so that you can make an informed decision. She has researched nothing, just gone to the Dr. and said 'I'm pregnant, tell me what to do', managing it like it's a double bypass or something.
I just have to vent to yall because I have very strong feelings about certain things, I'm a bit of a "natural" type in most aspects of my life and my friends are not. I am not militant in my beliefs. I find it a huge irritant when people are that way with me so I don't talk about my beleifs/ideas unless someone expresses intrest in something specific. I am not a fan of sending magazine articles and such as that would really bug me if folks did that to me. So, here I am...just had to complain...

Thanks for listening(reading) my long rant,

Mama to DS1 (4/04) DS2 (HBAC 11/06) DS3 (HBAC 12/08) DS4 (HBAC 1/11). Wife to one handsome hard working DH.
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#2 of 17 Old 01-28-2004, 01:15 PM
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Wow. It sounds like this could be the start of alot of frustrating disagreements between you both.

It also sounds like she's needing some attention. Are you able to give her compliments, do fun stuff with her, hang with her and model "the other side" of pregnancy? Perhaps her reaching for attention from the medical model comes from a deep seeded distrust or dislike of her body, not her baby.

All in all, just be there for her as open as you can and continue to vent here.
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#3 of 17 Old 01-28-2004, 01:32 PM
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I had a (now former) friend like that when I was pg with ds... I feel for you--it's so hard. My friend was due 2 months ahead of me.

If this advice doesn't apply to you, ignore it. But I wish I had just stayed away from her in the last couple of months... it was just really stressful for me to be around her. I tried talking to her a couple of times, and she just didn't get it (so I wouldn't necessarily advise you waste your energy on this). She had a couple of failed induction attempts (I was trying to be the supportive friend, so unfortunately, yeah, I witnessed too much of it), and then she had what I feel was a totally unnecessary cesarean.

After my baby finally arrived, I realized that our mothering approaches were so different and I was so sensitive at that point that I just really couldn't be around her (I don't know what your friend is planning to do once the baby's here, but I couldn't deal with my friend "scheduling" a newborn, not really trying to BF and then immediately switching to FF, eating crap, letting him cry, etc.). She eventually did a couple of (mostly unrelated) really hurtful things to me, and it was such a relief to just get her out of my life.

Anyway... when you're pg, your first priority has to be yourself (and the baby). It can be scary and disempowering to watch someone making the choices your friend is making. It doesn't sound like you can influence her. Maybe you should spend more time with more supportive people?
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#4 of 17 Old 01-28-2004, 01:54 PM
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Oh Amy I know what you mean...

My closest friend from high school is the EXACT same way. Her daughter is 2 years younger than mine and when she got preg, she asked me all sorts of things.........only to nay say them because they were to "hippy".

Now, I'm preg and she's TTC and I have to listen to her talk about all the testing she'll do....the hospital...erg. It's a pain.

I just pretty much keep my mouth shut.
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#5 of 17 Old 01-28-2004, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Pam-You are exactly right. There are definately some issues there. You hit the nail on the head when you said she may be needing some attention. I don't really think this is the start of long disagreements though. We've been friends for a while and we are 2 totally different people. Also, I live in Minnesota and she lives in Texas so we only talk on the phone occasionaly except when I visit my friends and family in Texas.
anothermama-that's exactly what I do...keep my mouth shut. It's just hard not to develope distasteful feelings for that person.
KKmama-I was thinking that your advise may not apply to me since this is a long distance friendship now. But you brought up something I hadn't thought about. That this attitude will definately extend into motherhood for my friend. I don't like to make statements about anyones decisions and I sure don't with her but she has always said she has no desire to breast feed. She just doesn't feel "that way". I don't know if it has anything to do with her implants but I imagine that does go back to what pam said about needing attention and not having trust in her body. I have another friend at work that actually grosses out on breast feeding, saying "there is just something wrong with that!". And here I am buying up cloth diapers (which for some reason people actually seem to get kind of pissed when I say I'm not using sposies. You don't have to do my laundry so shut up!), and I WILL breast feed (everyone I know says "oh I tried it and, blah blah blah..." "you'll be on formula in 2 weeks...").

I get so discouraged with issues in life in general. I seem to be so different than anyone else. I really want to go live in the woods and just do things my way and let the rest of the world burn itself out. I'm just not the vocal/debate type and, well...ugh!

Mama to DS1 (4/04) DS2 (HBAC 11/06) DS3 (HBAC 12/08) DS4 (HBAC 1/11). Wife to one handsome hard working DH.
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#6 of 17 Old 01-28-2004, 04:29 PM
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Ok, gotta vent about my friend too. We have been friends for over 8 years. She was there when my dd was born at 32 weeks (and durning her pregnancy told me that I was the reason that she was terrified of delivering a preterm infant). Well, she calls and tells me that she is going to have a baby. She asks me a few questions. Without being overbearing, I "hinted" around at things like the research that I had done on breastfeeding "Nope, I am not gonna do that" was her response. Told her my research about circ "Nope, my boy will be circ'd". Told her to really, really check into all of the newborn proceedures that were done. She tells me that her OBGYN says to her one day "not getting an epidural is like driving a car with the windows down and not using the ac" So, here is basically her birth story......Arrive at hospital.."Yep, I will take those drugs, thank you". Push Push Push. Baby, "Can I have my free formula please" "Oh, and while we are at it, can you clog up my baby's eyes and inject some of those toxins in her too please" Thank God she didn't have a boy (not said to offend anyone, I am an intactivist ) Then the baby moon "she cries all of the time" "we don't know what to do". I asked if they coslept "Oh God No, she has been in her own room since the day she came home from the hospital".

See, the problem that I have is the same as the OP. Not one time did this friend of mine bother to read anything. She didn't educate herself about anything. It's sad really that a baby has to pay for the mistakes of the parent (in this case, not know what could hurt the baby).
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#7 of 17 Old 01-28-2004, 07:53 PM
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I think we all have these friends. It is so frustrating. I was one of the first of my friends to have a baby, so many of them do ask for advice on different things. I have an arsenal of literature/web links that I give/recommend, and pretty much leave it at that, unless asked directly. It's tough.


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#8 of 17 Old 01-29-2004, 03:19 PM
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that's the reason why i have hardly any close friends anymore. i just can't take it being around those "plastic"people as i like to call them. i wish sometimes i wouldn't be so opinionated and respect other people's choices more, but it gets so friggin' hard when it's about a baby whose parents make obviously dumb choices for them and then the baby suffers.
mostly i'm glad though, that i hardly have to deal with idiots like these anymore, even if it means that i can count the christmas cards i send out every year on one hand....saves so much energy and nerves:LOL
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#9 of 17 Old 01-29-2004, 08:01 PM
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Ugh, Amy, I know, I know.

of course, MDC was down when I was reeling from a Brush with the Mainstream Birthing Mentality....

I had my cousin (a product of a UC in 1979! Intact, too!) and his wife came over for dinner, and yes, I hoped to inject a little birthing agenda in here and there.

But alas, there wasn't even a point during the whole evening to mutter, gee, get a doula, or read The Thinking Woman's Guide. Nothin'.

And the EXTRA EXTRA EXTRA irritating thing about this is: For the past two years, once a semester, I am her guest speaker on pregnancy & birth in her high school "home ec" (consmer sciences) class.

She has seen my personal evolution from OB induced births are a-ok to a midwifery model of care, she has seen me nurse my baby, in front of her class of teenage students, who didn't know I was breastfeeding 'til I mentioned it AND REMARKED at how cool it was, she and her students have heard my distain for episiotomy, and I'm getting NO QUESTIONS on ANYTHING from her at any point about pregnancy and birth ever, not at my house for dinner, not at Xmas, what?

This mama-to-be, before she was pregant, and before I was going to give my talk at the high school, asked me to 'tone down' my episitomy talk (I can totally respect this, though I don't think I ever said anything out of line--I just scared her students so much the last time that they were hung up on the topic for a few days, which THEY SHOULD BE.)

Which I say to illustrate the fact that this friend knows knows knows the assults that will happen to her person if she chooses to close her eyes to the matter.

And mamas, that's what I'm afraid it's all about for her.

The ONE tiny tidbit I got out of her was when I asked the ONE question: are you feeling excited about your birth?

She answered with something like, yeah, sorta, and that most people ask her if she's scared or nervous, and she admitted that the one fear she has is about during the c-sec if she'll be looking over the little curtain they put over your chest if she'll see stuff, and her friend told her she CAN CLOSE HER EYES and that would make it better.

God help us, this is what 98% of women are expecting when they're expecting.

I guess I should be somewhat calmed by the fact that this woman has a crystal-clear concept of the probility of her c-section, with her "if it happens, it happens" attitude at 30 weeks.

TOTALLY drives me crazy.

Would you buy a house like that? A car like that? no, you'd do a smidge of research, but hey--doctor knows best, just like the carsalesman, hunh?

thanks for listening to MY rant--just know you're in good company, and for HEAVEN'S SAKE, avoid annoying homebirth/cloth diaper/breastfeeding killjoys!!!!!
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#10 of 17 Old 02-02-2004, 12:39 PM
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I totally understand the OP. My sister is like that. The bottom line really is that she can't get past herself to be more concerned for her children. And b/c she is my sister and I love her, never talking to her again is not really an option.

My parents had foster kids my whole life. I told my mom recently that I treat sis's kids like foster kids. Love them, give them attention, try to nurture them and be soft and gentle, but don't get too attached b/c it's just too painful.

Ultimately, I am not their mother. And they are not my choices to make. I can condemn her decisions in my mind, but other than that, I can't do anything. She doesn't abuse her kids. Her kids will have farther to go and a bumpier road than mine, but that doesn't mean they won't make it. I do minimize contact with sis, mostly b/c I can't tolerate hearing her baby cry while she is having a conversation with someone. Or the way her children are such an "inconvenience" to her. And God help me, I love her eldest dd so much. I offered to adopt her more than once, but sis refused (after all, dd is HER PROPERTY and she doesn't want the world to know she failed). But going through the constant heartbreak of loving her dd so much, I just can't bring myself to really care about her baby or the baby on the way.

So I developed this philosophy that I could be the good aunt, the one they spent a couple weeks in summer with singing songs, baking cookies, taking walks, things their mom won't do with them. I could be a light in their lives, the person we all have in our past that made us want to be better people. And so I try to be that person for them. B/c my sis is a lost cause at this point, but her children aren't.

I don't know if that makes any sense. The emotions involved are kind of complex.

But I understand your frustrations.
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#11 of 17 Old 02-02-2004, 03:20 PM
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My sister is 20 weeks and is planning for an epidural in the hospital.
I tried so hard to talk to her about maybe switching to a midwife, and that I was planning a UC this time.
And on her coffee table, I saw What to Expect When You're Expecting.
Sigh again.
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#12 of 17 Old 02-03-2004, 02:09 AM
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My baby's father is 6' 4" and was about 10lbs at birth.

Our baby?.....

Born at 6lb 2oz at 41wks gestation.

Daddy's size is a stupid reason to induce (probably as are most reasons).

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#13 of 17 Old 02-03-2004, 05:46 PM
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I don't even talk to my friends about natural birth anymore, or cloth diapers, or my nursing 2 1/2 year old. And it does get lonely! I'm so glad that MDC exists. This is the only place where I can express my views openly.

I used to test the waters with the other Moms who go to the Y. I asked a few pregnant Moms who their OBs were, and got this response "Oh, I love Dr. So and So. With my last baby, I made him induce labor to make sure that he was on call when I delivered." Oh yeah, there's a lot to love there.

Glad you mamas are here!
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#14 of 17 Old 02-03-2004, 07:11 PM
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Jakobsmomi I know what you mean
Over the last 2 years of my dd's life my whole friendship base has changed. The women I was friends with before preg. are not real close to me and my family now. I really think that the style you will parent begins at pregnancy. I just had to stop getting together with these women because of their beliefs being sooo different from mine. They cio I cosleep they bottle feed I breastfeed they use disposables etc....... now they feed their toddlers fake food from packages and I just can't expose my dd to that. I believe in live and let live but my mouth continuely got me in the thick of it so I just made new more likeminded friends, ones that I can just be myself and I don't have to censor myself as much. Its kinda to bad because some of these friends were friends for more than 20 years!! Life is much easier now tho.. I bit of a rant sorry.
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#15 of 17 Old 02-06-2004, 12:50 AM
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This is very very hard, I really dont have any friends that I would say I support the way they have babies. And the people I do know that I would support dont have kids : my sister for example doesnt care what she puts in her body when pregnant- she is already talking about her induction, she will circ with out even thinking about it, she is going to put nasty sposies on her baby even though I told her I would sew her entire stash and not charge her. She thinks my DD at 6 months should have sweets, she thinks I am nuts that I co-sleep that I didnt want any U/S that I refused drugs...... I could go on all day! For her, because she is my sister I put up with her crap and stress out over it. I have not really let her watch DD (not that I leave her alot) I have decided that maybe I could change things with my nephews, my nephew watches me BF, co-sleep, cloth and not give my DD crap. He loves it all!!!! Now when I was preggo I also had a friend that on the front side seemed pretty earthy- but she was one of those girls you knew would have a c-sec even before she hit her DD. And sure enough she did- It seemed after our DDs were born we just didnt have much to talk about- our worlds became our daughters. I dont doubt the love she has for her DD but I can see how it can be so much stronger- KWIM??? We dont talk much anymore, and when we do it is always about our preggo days! lol... It is okay, I decided I would suround myself with more like minded mamas!!!

[B][I]~Ang~ Mom to 2 sport-head crazy girls: Rainey and Breeze  and my little lost love- @18 weeks with gestational age of 7 weeks

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#16 of 17 Old 02-12-2004, 01:46 AM
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Keep on loving your neices and nephews, even though you cannot rescue them from you sister. Having you in their lives can make all the difference. That goes for all of you who care about and are involved in the lives of children whose parents aren't putting them first. You may never know how much of a difference you make.

In my opinion, there are things that parents do that are truly detrimental to their children, and there are things that aren't best but are still not detrimental. I birthed at home; I co-sleep; I breastfed for eighteen months; I cloth diaper... I think these are all good choices--perhaps the best. But I also think a mother who has a typical hospital birth, uses disposables, formula feeds or makes other choices that I wouldn't can be a good, loving parent and rear happy, healthy children.

Sometimes, I think we are splitting hairs at the top end of the spectrum when we get so passionate about our birth and parenting choices. Some of the healthiest, most well-adjusted people I know (from my generation and older [I'm 37]) were formula-fed-medicated-birth-cry-it-out-spanked children. It's not what I would chose, but I have to acknowledge that a whole lot of us survived it and have done well. Many even have loving, strong relationships with their parents. Ultimately, I think the most important parenting quality is unselfish, unconditional love.

So Amy,

I have friends making similar choices, and it does make me cringe. I vent to my more natural friends and my midwife. But ultimately, I accept that they can be wonderful parents even if they approach their births and some parenting decisions in ways that give me the absolute hee-be-jeebies! Accepting this helps. It also helps seeing that many of our friends and family who've taken the more conventional parenting path now have teenaged and young adult children who are wonderful and doing really, really well. I've learned that most of these women have something to teach me about parenting and often call asking them for advice. Generally, we joke about our differences. Last week when I called cousin Anne Marie and announced that I was calling for advice, she immediately quipped, "Go to the hospital. Get an epidural." We both laughed, then I asked her opinion on my son's fever...

Best of luck supporting your friend without climbing the walls!

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#17 of 17 Old 02-12-2004, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks Sarah, once agian I totally agree with you! I am not one to loose friends over any veiws, no matter what the topic in dispute is. In fact, there never really is a dispute. I also tend to go to my husband (of all people, he gets all this birth stuff thank goodness) and my midwife, and this board when I need to vent. Uh, that's why I have a few venting posts out there right now! Can you tell I'm nearing the end of my pregnancy
I have alot of steam to blow off!!!

Thanks again,

Mama to DS1 (4/04) DS2 (HBAC 11/06) DS3 (HBAC 12/08) DS4 (HBAC 1/11). Wife to one handsome hard working DH.
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