Looking for C Sec info re: babies - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 20 Old 01-28-2004, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
anothermama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: somewhere between here and there
Posts: 2,852
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ladies

I'm wondering if anyone can help me find info about the effect of C Secs on newborns...

Here's what I mean....

I was thinking how, in birth, everything that happens naturally happens to cause a sort of chain of events....everything that happens is paving the way for the next step for your body and your baby. So if a baby isn't allowed to be birthed the way they were MEANT to be birthed (vaginally) I'm thinking there HAS to be some physical effects, right? I mean it just seems weird to have a child be pulled right out of the womb without having been pushed into position and having traveled down the birth canal.

So I'm just wondering if anyone knows where I could get info that maybe talks about how the birth process does (or does not) prepare a babe to take it's first breaths and if c sections hinder that.

Not planning one or anything....I've just been really wondering...
anothermama is offline  
#2 of 20 Old 01-28-2004, 09:25 PM
 
OnTheFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Alabama
Posts: 3,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, the two children I had by csection were MEANT to be born that way. It is idealistic to say all babies are meant to be born vaginally, some of them arent for medical reasons like birth defects or uterine anomalies, etc. That being said....

Yes, they are some effects. They do not have all the juices squeezed from them and many csections have a wet sound to them. They loose their body temperature faster. Also I have read something about their spines and necks not being aligned right.
I have read some contreversial stuff about SIDS and csections but it was mostly by the anti -csection people and once I dug deeper there were too many other factors to say it was because of a csection.

Trauma and problems can happen in any birth though.
OnTheFence is offline  
#3 of 20 Old 01-28-2004, 09:40 PM
 
pamamidwife's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oregon
Posts: 7,639
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I'm no "anti-cesarean" person (though some would think my desire to see fewer interventions that lead to cesarean birth and a decrease in the overall number of surgical births is), but there are quite a few beneficial things for both mother and baby that do not occur with a planned cesarean (some of these things do not happen even with an epidural, as the messages between the uterus/cervix and the pituitary are more confused).

This is an amazing site that is for people born by cesarean. It has great information on what cesarean born people may not have that vaginal birth people experience at birth. I have often heard that people born by cesarean experience things a bit differently than those of us born vaginally. I feel that there is NO way we can blame any mother for her child's experience of birth, so I'm NOT trying to make mothers of cesarean born feel any one way. Still, I expect high defenses on this topic.

One of the best articles in that site is one by a physician called...
The Ideal Cesarean Birth - it is a compassionate look at how to make surgical birth more humane for mother and baby.
pamamidwife is offline  
#4 of 20 Old 01-29-2004, 08:13 PM
 
tinyshoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Minneapolis USA
Posts: 1,717
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Labor helps a baby's lungs mature.

In the case of a c-section performed before labor has begun, the baby's lungs are at a disadvantage that may cause respiratory problems.

About.com
has a little blurb about this fact.

I know a woman with a bicornuate uterus who planned a c-sec with her OB....they planned to do the c-sec ONCE mom started labor, to ensure optimum fetal health, rather than facilitate busy OR schedules.

That's the kind of obstetrics I like to see practiced.
tinyshoes is offline  
#5 of 20 Old 01-29-2004, 09:10 PM
 
OnTheFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Alabama
Posts: 3,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
As a woman with a bicornuate uterus I wouldnt agree. Especially if she has ever had surgery on that uterus. Also if this woman's labor began with her water breaking her risk of prolapse cord and other complications is higher due to malposition of the baby in that type of deformed uteri. Depending on the exact diagnosis of the mullerian anomaly I would say what your friends doctor could possibly taking a great risk with her baby's life.

I hope he has good malpractice insurance.

Kim
OnTheFence is offline  
#6 of 20 Old 01-29-2004, 11:08 PM
 
pamamidwife's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oregon
Posts: 7,639
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Kim, there are varying degrees of septums in bicornate uteri, not all bicornate uteri are the same, nor do all babies assume the same positions in utero with a bicornate uterus. You were right when you said that there are serious risks involved with such a situation.

Please don't take offense to this thread and such stories. We recogize that your story is different, and that your cesareans were very much warranted and there might be some sadness around that, or there might not. However, please do not assume that we are all out to blanket statement all cesareans.

Each woman's case is different. The sad thing is the majority of cesareans are performed in this country due to interventions pushed on women in labor. This is a fact and is something that we would all like to see lowered. Cesarean birth, as a whole, is not without incredible risk - especially to the mother. As someone who has talked with women who have lost their fertility (had their uterus removed due to a cesarean that was an "emergency" due to interventions), there are other sides to the story, which I know you realize.

Every time we attempt to raise awareness about lowering cesarean rates, there are women who come forward, angry at what we are saying.

If I had a cesarean that was truly necessary and I felt comfortable with, I hope that I would still be able to recognize the overall health issues of an increasing cesarean rate and would want it to stop.

pamamidwife is offline  
#7 of 20 Old 01-30-2004, 01:02 PM
 
tinyshoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Minneapolis USA
Posts: 1,717
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by OnTheFence
As a woman with a bicornuate uterus I wouldnt agree.
As a woman who has researched bicornuate uteri, has a different friend with a different septum situation, and as a fan of Ina May's bicornuate uterus woman from The Farm who vaginally birthed babies from both sides of her uterus during different pregnancies, I am all about honoring the wild & wonderful ways the mullerian tubes can develop in an embryo.

This mama I spoke of in my previous post, however, had quality OB care, and u/s technology was used to it's advantage, and this woman's anomoly was surgically treated during the c/sec. Now my fellow mama looks forward to a future of happy VBACing full-term pregnacies.

I originally mentioned her story because it is an example of a plannd c-section that honored nature, i.e., it is true that labor and the hormones involved do help baby's lungs finish the maturation process. (This, in contrast, to the planned c-sections that are done so with first consulting the OR schedule, rather than an individual fetus & mom's biological state of readiness for birth. Because what doctor wants to be bothered in the middle of the night, right?!?!)
tinyshoes is offline  
#8 of 20 Old 02-03-2004, 02:56 PM
 
Peppermint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: work-in-progress
Posts: 5,658
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would agree that babies born via c-section sound "juicy" sometimes, and often have lower apgar scores, etc.

I think the decision to have a cesarean should not be taken lightly by women or Dr.s, and, those of us on the c-section support thread seem to have learned well that sometimes VBAC is best, sometimes labor followed by section is best, and sometimes scheduled section is best- and IME, the mother will *KNOW* what is best for her baby. I had intended to go into labor before having the section for the little peanut I just had, but *something* told me to schedule it (which I couldn't figure why), my OB was very supportive of laboring first, but said she would go with my instincts- when she opened me up she was shocked to see that I had begun to rupture- and she was thankful (as was I) that we listened to my instincts. So, despite some mucous to suction from his mouth that first day, and a not at all natural delivery- listening to my instincts about what was safest for my baby really worked out for us.

What is my point? I think women almost always *know* what is best (I like to think of it as God speaking to me) for their baby's birth, and if we listen to ourselves, we'd all be much better off

:Patty :fireman Catholic, intactalactivist, co-sleeping, GDing, HSing, no-vax Mama to .........................:..........hale:
Peppermint is offline  
#9 of 20 Old 02-03-2004, 04:29 PM
 
pamamidwife's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oregon
Posts: 7,639
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by jess7396
when she opened me up she was shocked to see that I had begun to rupture-

This is actually more common than they used to believe. It's what is called a "window" or a "dehescience" and it's one reason why some studies' rupture rates are so high vs others, because these "windows" are grouped in with full, catastrophic ruptures.

They're finding that these windows of separation occur before labor and are usually benign and not an indication of an impending catastrophic rupture.

I agree with you, Jess, about listening to a mother's intuition. There's just so much fear out there that it's easy to mistake the societal fear and medical pressure for an intuitive sense of what you and your baby may need.
pamamidwife is offline  
#10 of 20 Old 02-03-2004, 07:52 PM
 
Peppermint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: work-in-progress
Posts: 5,658
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by pamamidwife
This is actually more common than they used to believe. It's what is called a "window" or a "dehescience" and it's one reason why some studies' rupture rates are so high vs others, because these "windows" are grouped in with full, catastrophic ruptures.

They're finding that these windows of separation occur before labor and are usually benign and not an indication of an impending catastrophic rupture.
Well, in our conversation (she is a very VBAC friendly, and was very supportive of me laboring first OB), she said that sometimes she opens to see a "window" but that this was quite different, she actually did not cut the section that was rupturing at all, she simply cut the other side, and it ripped along the seem. Also, I had had severe pain in that portion of my uterus just before having the babe, and I should've known that it was a problem (I did really), but I ignored it, based on the thought that such a low number of women rupture (never thought it would happen to me). I think there is danger on both ends of the rupture issue- many OBs scare women unecessarily about rupture, and IMO some OBs and midwives under-talk it so to speak. No one ever told me that due to 2 previous sections with single layer closures- increased my risk- and that any incision area pain in a previous c-section patient- should be called about (I thought it was just normal- but the amount of pain I had-couldn't walk- was not normal, and I wrote it off as normal).

Still, I think babies fare best when birthed vaginally if all else is equal (better for the lungs esp.) - and there is a too large number of unecessary c-sections which make some people lump all as "unnecessary" or assume that all OBs are knife happy, and looking to get to their next golf game, etc. I will take the advice of my OB, whom I trust totally, and who actually saw my uterus as she is the one who opened me up, over any *evidence* to the contrary. I think there are a lot of good OBs out there, and you just have to do the work to find them It would be nice if all medical professionals would be truly looking out for what is best for each individual mother and baby- rather than trying to prove anything either way, and keeping any other agenda out of things. As I said before, mamas know what is best for themselves and their babies, if they just listen to that voice inside

:Patty :fireman Catholic, intactalactivist, co-sleeping, GDing, HSing, no-vax Mama to .........................:..........hale:
Peppermint is offline  
#11 of 20 Old 02-05-2004, 12:54 AM
 
LisaG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Tinyshoes,

Just when I thought I was all alone in corrected bicornuate land planning to VBAC, you started talking about your friend . I'm really pleasantly surprised to hear that your friend is planning to VBAC next time around. My surgeon gave me the "you must have a c/s" talk. Then I started doing my own digging and found what little bit of research has been done on us surgically corrected wacky wombs. There really have been women with corrected bicornuate that have had successful vaginal births, and, contrary to popular belief, none of the ruptured!

Any chance you could put me in touch with your friend? Feel free to pm me.

Thanks!
LisaG

Lisa , married to Dan, mama to IVF miracle Natalie 5/20/09 :
LisaG is offline  
#12 of 20 Old 02-05-2004, 12:03 PM
 
Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: bananasplitsville
Posts: 1,267
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
hello all,

My son was born via c section and very unplanned. I was ready for a very natural vaginal birth. But at 39 weeks my ultra sound confirmed my worst nightmare. I was carring a 10 pound 14 oz 22 1/2 inch baby or buda/sumo boy.
There was NO WAY that his 15 in head was going to fit thew my cervix, with my first only being about 6 pounds my bod was in no way prepard for him. also he was still in + 2 station (i think that is right? im not to all sure but he had'nt moved at all down the canal)
I had no contrations barly and bracston hicks. I know i was only 39 weeks but my stomach was so olarge and I was in unbelievable amounts of pain omg it was just awful. My stomach measured in at 42!

so anyway I had NO CHOICE and I really am greatful my son was born with NO COMPLICATIONS. His asper "sp?" scores were at the top I believe 5? not sure but he scored t5he highest
he was on a breathing tube due to the fluid in his lungs and theyu did want to take blood for his sugar levels. I declined.
they tried there hardest there at the hospital to scare me about this and that but I knew my son was healthy and he would be fine if they just gave him TIME! oh I was so livid!
they were all about the eye gel, the vit K the hep B wanting to give him SUGAR WATER!!! I eneded up getting into a fight with the ped on call. sorry I m getting off topic here, well bc I had a c section I feel that my milk came in late. another scare tacatic the dr used.. oh you might have to suppliment" and my incision has just healed. I had a little area that just wouldnt close up!
my is a very peacful soul, no colic and sleep's very well his head is beautifully perfect round to match his beautifull belly...he hee
I hope there is no long term affects with haveing a c section. I f i were to be in this situation years ago we probly would have both died.
My dr has informed me that any future preg will be c section
and I believe him. I t was a very scarry time for me. I have never ever had surgury and this is considered to be like open heart surgury.
I probly will never be the same and fear that I will have some lopng term effects due to surgury. my feet and ankles are still healing from the extra 100 pounds I carried around and my carpul tunnle is still linguring. all in all I would do it over a 100 times my new son is a gift from god and i cherrish evey waking moment with him.

I hate having to have the c section but thank god it is a option
Monkey is offline  
#13 of 20 Old 02-06-2004, 07:45 AM
 
pamamidwife's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oregon
Posts: 7,639
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
monkey, that's not to say that your baby would not have fit through your pelvis.

last year in my practice, I had two clients with 13lb babies. heads were 16.25" both times.

we cannot go back and make different decisions, but i don't think your body is broken - and i don't think you couldn't have birthed that baby. now, whether or not you wanted to is your own business. however, the belief that we are "too small" or somehow defective and cannot birth our babies that are bigger is a lie being fed to us daily.

a big baby isn't my worst nightmare as a provider. my biggest nightmare as a midwife is not truly supporting a woman in what she has the right to do.
pamamidwife is offline  
#14 of 20 Old 02-06-2004, 11:23 AM
 
OnTheFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Alabama
Posts: 3,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by LisaG
Tinyshoes,

Just when I thought I was all alone in corrected bicornuate land planning to VBAC, you started talking about your friend . I'm really pleasantly surprised to hear that your friend is planning to VBAC next time around. My surgeon gave me the "you must have a c/s" talk. Then I started doing my own digging and found what little bit of research has been done on us surgically corrected wacky wombs. There really have been women with corrected bicornuate that have had successful vaginal births, and, contrary to popular belief, none of the ruptured!

Any chance you could put me in touch with your friend? Feel free to pm me.

Thanks!
LisaG
I am not sure what you are reading and from where, but I have read several articles in medical journals on bicornuate, surgically corrected ones, that did rupture during childbirth. I will have to dig through my folders but I believe I found these on medline. One rupture was even catastrophic. What I dont remember is if the labors were augmented.
OnTheFence is offline  
#15 of 20 Old 02-06-2004, 12:55 PM
 
Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: bananasplitsville
Posts: 1,267
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
well where the heck where u when i needed ya!???? pamamidwife??????

LOL Just jokin!

but hey that is somne inlightining news. so what my ob just didnt want to try?
i would have been willing if i had someone telling me this CAN be done but i was under the impression this CAN NOT be done....

i would have labored for days!
LOL
my son had turned head down at 28 weeks. and i was efaced 90% dilated to 2 at 39 weeks. should i have just waited?
Monkey is offline  
#16 of 20 Old 02-06-2004, 02:51 PM
 
OnTheFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Alabama
Posts: 3,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Monkey,

I hate to say this but dont start second guessing all the decisions you made thinking what if because someone here said you probably could have done it. First and foremost, Pam is great, but she is not your medical professional, she has never seen you or met you in real life or reviewed your medical records. She has never felt your body, checked your cervix or any of the like. In fact she really has no clue as to IF you could have had a vaginal birth.

I have been there and done that. I have been judged, looked down upon, talked about because of birthing choices I made. The first and the last time. (The middle child was adopted, also a csection)

Do you trust your doctor? Did you do all that you believe you could have done? Do you believe your csection was right for you and your baby?

You should come join us on the csection support thread! I really wish you would.

Kim
OnTheFence is offline  
#17 of 20 Old 02-06-2004, 03:57 PM
 
Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: bananasplitsville
Posts: 1,267
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
this ia all true too..

my 1st was 5 14oz and I am a petite or was..LOL after childbirth i had to throw those size 2's away... LOL:LOL

i truley believe my dr did the right thing i never had ANYONE tell me anything diffrent. i trust his judgemnet and i do not regret my c section just wish we would have done it sooner bcause boy was I in pain!


thanks fpr all of your support ladies!
Monkey is offline  
#18 of 20 Old 02-06-2004, 04:07 PM
 
LisaG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow, what interesting discussions!

Monkey - congrats on your buddha baby Sorry you had to go through all the hassle with the ped. Bravo for sticking up for you and your babe.

I too encourage you to gather info about big babies and pelvises. You obviously did the very best that you could in your birth situation with the information you had. That said, when and if the time is right and you want to see what your options are, there is some really good information out there about big babies. I certainly would never want to say that there has never been a baby that grew too big for mama's pelvis, but I do think that more often than not, it's fear of malpractice, lack of skill on the care provider's part (because hardly anyone's delivering big babies these days), lack of patience on the care provider's part, mama being in a laboring and birthing position that's not optimal for maximizing the size of her pelvis, etc. And from the snippet of info you shared, I don't understand why your doc says you must have a repeat c/s. Not that you need to go into detail, or explain, but just something for you to consider as you're gathering info and deciding what YOUR very best choice is.

We're not medical doctor's here (well, maybe some are) - but we are a collective group of really knowledgable women. We can tell you that small women have birthed big babies through their vagina. We can tell you that women have had c/s for all sorts of reasons and that absolutely, they can be lifesaving and necessary. We can tell you that, unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately), doctor's (or any care provider) don't know it all.

That said, this is your journey and your choices and your exploration. No one can decide what's right for you but YOU . Remember to be gentle with yourself.

LisaG

Lisa , married to Dan, mama to IVF miracle Natalie 5/20/09 :
LisaG is offline  
#19 of 20 Old 02-06-2004, 04:18 PM
 
Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: bananasplitsville
Posts: 1,267
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thanks lisa.. thats my name too..

my dr had some medical term and i found out about it when the nurse at the hospital was going over a list with me after babe was born and she said somthing and i said, I dont have that! not knowing what it was and she said its a pelivs abnormalty basically your pelvis is to small to labor even a avergae size baby and bcause your fisrt was 5-14 small you where able to have him. so I guess i just lumped it..

I heard the more babes you have the bigger they get? and my 1st was 5 weeks early and if i would have gone term he too would have been budha.

so , next babe I will FOR SURE do some investigating

my son was so big it scared me. to be tottaly honest prob bc #1 was sooo tiny.
I was never tested for the diabedes thing, never had to drink that stuff? but my ob said i did have it.. my bp was always so low like 100/60 towards the end it was 120/80 that was high for me. and my pee always came back good..
all that matters now is big boy is happy and healthy.. LOL

thanks lisa and everyone eles for your info i really apprectae it

Monkey is offline  
#20 of 20 Old 02-06-2004, 04:25 PM
 
LisaG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
I am not sure what you are reading and from where, but I have read several articles in medical journals on bicornuate, surgically corrected ones, that did rupture during childbirth. I will have to dig through my folders but I believe I found these on medline. One rupture was even catastrophic. What I dont remember is if the labors were augmented.
Hi Kim,

I am reading medical research from medical journals like Fertility and Sterility, American Journal of Obsetrics and Gynecology, etc. that I got from our university medical library. The articles I researched were specific to the Strassman Procedure which is what I had done. I don't have them in front of me at the moment, but if I recall correctly, the only ruptures mentioned (2-3 I think) in those articles occurred during pregnancy, not labor or birth. There was also mention of c/s done due to perceived rupture, but once they were able to see the uterus there was no actual rupture.

I found it difficult to find research that actually mentioned birth. The majority of the research focuses on whether or not pregnancy outcomes are improved following the procedure with women who've had multiple miscarriages or infertility. Of the research I found that mentioned birth, the large majority were c/s due to perceived risk of rupture. Interestingly, in one retrospective study I found that looked back to the early 1900's when the procedure was first done, the majority of births were vaginal because the risk of c/s was so high. There were no ruptures in that study. These days it's so rare that bicornuate is surgically corrected that it seems research is continuing to shrink.

I'd be very interested in any additional research you could point me to. I've become somewhat of a passionate research junkie on this topic

LisaG

Lisa , married to Dan, mama to IVF miracle Natalie 5/20/09 :
LisaG is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off